(first posted 3/11/2015) Saturn was created as “a different kind of car company”. Now whether or not you take that to heart, I think we can all agree that Saturn’s early line of S-Series cars were in fact, quite different from other GM products. They rode on an exclusive platform and just about all of their parts, including engines, transmissions, sheet metal (or sheet plastic, to be exact) and interior components, were unique to Saturn. Additionally, Saturn had their own manufacturing plant, separate dealer network, distinctive sales techniques, and was headquartered far from Detroit, in Spring Hill, Tennessee.
With its cars and unique approach to customer service, Saturn’s early years were relatively successful. But as its first decade wore on, sales hit a standstill. Lacking other products beyond its compact S-Series, loyal buyers were beginning to look elsewhere as their wants and needs in a car began to change. Many S-Series were purchased by young professionals as their first new car. As these people were getting older, becoming more successful, and starting families, larger, better-equipped cars were on their radar. Expanding its portfolio, with products for these buyers to trade up to was the logical solution for Saturn.
The first product of this such move was the Saturn L-Series, which entered production in mid-1999 as a 2000 model. Offering more space and features, and wrapped in familiar-looking polymer body panels, at first glance, the L-Series would have appeared to be everything the S-Series was, grown-up a bit.
Unfortunately, the Saturn L-Series was not everything the S-Series was. Rather than starting from the ground up, like it did with the S-Series, GM turned to its European subsidiary, Opel. The practice of using Opel as a starting point (among other brands) was not new, and in many cases a “global car” can be highly successful, while yielding substantial cost-saving benefits. Saab had based the 1994 900 on the Opel Vectra and Holden had used Opels as the basis for several of their vehicles. But for Saturn, a brand that prided itself in being “different” and virtually independent from GM, this move seemed to contradict Saturn’s core values.
Riding on a stretched Opel Vectra chassis, the L-Series also shared its basic architecture with the Vectra, ditching the S-Series space frame construction. While most of its body panels were unique, resemblance to the Vectra was visible, particularly in its greenhouse. Saturn also dipped into the GM parts bin for engines, transmissions, suspension components, and many interior pieces. An existing GM factory in Wilmington, Delaware was retooled for L-Series production, a move which further separated the L-Series from Saturn’s control and unique labor agreements with the United Auto Workers union.
For more worse than better, the interior of the L-Series was largely Saturn, bearing a strong resemblance to the S-Series. Early-’00s GM interiors were hardly the pinnacle of quality and design, and the Saturn L-Series was no exception. Lots of hard plastics, sterile color palates, and a bland design that already looked about five years old when it came out.
While this article might be sounding a bit over critical of the L-Series, in truth, the 2000 Saturn L-Series wasn’t a horrible car, at least on paper. It offered class-competitive space, engines, and features. It was also competitively priced, with sedan and wagon body styles, three trim levels, 2.2L I4 and 3.0L V6 (a detuned version of the Cadillac Catera and Saab 9-5’s) engines, and 4-speed automatic and Getrag 5-speed manual (also from the 9-5) transmissions.
So it may come as a surprise, but initial reception was actually quite positive, with the L-Series regarded as a solid prospect in the mid-size car segment. Reviews praised its handling, ride quality, acceleration from the V6, as well as the availability of a wagon, GM’s only mid-size wagon in North America. It looked like the L-Series was poised for success in the mid-size car segment.
Despite positive press, the L-Series failed to make a significant splash in an already crowded and competitive market. Early production issues delayed supply at the time of the car’s introduction, and once production ramped up, dealers had a difficult time moving L-Series, forcing them to offer large incentives on the L-Series and to cut production at the Wilmington plant.
The L-Series’ reputation was further hurt by a number of quality issues and recalls related to taillight, brake, timing chain, and engine failures. Saturn had projected L-Series sales of 192,000 units during its first year, and 300,000 during its second year, but sales of the L-Series in 2000 and 2001 were only 94,000 and 98,000, respectively. Sales nosedived after that, falling below 20,000 by 2004.
To make matters worse, by 2003, the class-leading Camry and Accord had both received complete redesigns, and Nissan finally released a competitive mid-sized Altima making the L-Series an even less attractive option. Saturn would give the L-Series a new nose for ’03, albeit a rather berserk one that looked better suited for a Pontiac Grand Am, but meaningful updates were not to be found, and the car was only de-contented as production waned. After a dismal five-years, the Saturn L-Series was discontinued following a brief run of sedan-only 2005 models.
At the end of the day, did the Saturn faithful really care (or even know) that the L-Series wasn’t a purebred Saturn? Probably not. However, in doing this, Saturn opened the floodgates for decreased independence and increased product relation to other GM cars. As time went on, Saturn became just like any other brand in the GM pool.
By no means was the L-Series solely responsible for Saturn’s especially rocky years in the early-’00s. Neglecting their core product, the S-Series, and ultimately replacing it with the lackluster Ion played a huge part in muddling Saturn’s purpose.
The irony in all this is that by around 2007, Saturn was actually starting to turn out some half-competitive cars again, and nearly all of them were rebadged Opels. Unfortunately, it couldn’t have happened at a worse time, as the 2008 recession hit and Saturn’s low sales volume, short history, and ever-changing identity made it a prime candidate to be dumped by GM. Any negotiations with possible buyers failed, and Saturn ultimately shut its doors for good in October 2010.
Low resale values have made the L-Series a prime candidate for a cheap beater, and as a result, there aren’t many Saturn L-Series to be found on the roads anymore. Saturn may have started out having a cult-like following, but as it became less of “a different kind of car company”, its original customer base went elsewhere. Today, few people miss Saturn, and even fewer miss the L-Series.
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The resale values were brutal on these. Someone I used to know who got what seemed to be a good deal on a new one ended up in an unpleasant negative equity situation and ended up having to trade the car at a considerable loss just to get rid of it. It wasn’t a terrible car as generic transportation mobiles go, but that kind of depreciation is what killed cars like the Camry and Maxima in the U.K.
I purchased a brand new silver manual base model in 2000, drove it for 8 years and about 120 000 miles (194 000 km). It was my first brand new car. I had an early clutch cylinder fail (about 6 month), my father changed 3 times the wiper motor (a known design defect…), I remember joking about that:”a different kind of car, not better, just different” and a lock cylinder on the trunk. These were the only repair needed on it. Drove very good, was smooth and powerful, very economical (around 6.8 liter/100 km). The steering wheel was the ugliest I ever saw, never understood why they not only design it but kept it for all the run, should post a pic! Overall, I really liked it, it was a comfortable, sportiiish sedan, was looking almost new on it’s 8th years (loved the plastic parts!). The paint on these was really good. I sold it to a collegue who drove it for 2 or 3 years and he resold it the same price I sold him…I was nervous about the timing chain problem on these but never had the issue, liked it so much, my brother bought one 3 month after I bought mine…good memories….
Actually, the 1st gen Saturns were not so different… The LS sedans always, looked like a junior version of the 1988-199? Fwd Olds Cutlass Supreme… rear greenhouse, and all. lol
GM showed potential buyers that Saturn really was not a different kind of car company from the other GM brands when they made almost no changes to the “S” series over time and then introduced a car that was the same thing….but slightly bigger in every dimension. The competition re-vamped their small cars every 4 years, but Saturn was different, rarely changing more than the front and rear end styling. I do remember the very stylish showroom buildings Saturn had….too bad the cars were so dowdy looking.
The idea of a “mid-sized” domestic wagon, and with a V6 was a real high point for the brand and GM. Again, too bad about the boring styling. And nearly every designer associated with the Ion should have been fired by GM. Certainly THE ugliest car from any company in the early 21st century.
I’ve been tempted to buy a used Saturn a few times, both the Aura and Astra, but unfortunately both suffer from the same “issues” their contemporary GM sister suffer from: less than stellar assembly quality.
We rented a white L-Series sedan on a trip to Florida in 2003. The seats were hard as rocks, the “cloth” uphostery might as well have been produced by rubbermaid, the A/C sucked, and the interior had among the worst plastics for a car of its time, even compared tonother GMs.
I was never really impressed with the interior of the Aura either. It looked good in pictures, but when you got up close in person it was the same cheap poor quality plastics and switchgear found in late-’00s Chevys and Pontiacs.
They couldn’t afford to revamp the S series. They spent way too much developing it and since it wasn’t a overwhelming success they had to keep soldiering it on pretty much as is in an attempt to amortize the development cost. The big problem was that every nut and bolt on the car was dictated to be a Saturn nut and bolt. That meant way too much money was spent because they had to engineer and tool for every nut and bolt. Had they dipped into the GM parts bin for those items that aren’t seen and that GM was competent in making they could have brought the car to market for much less.
The L series only made things worse and pretty much cemented the fate of Saturn. They ended up spending way too much revamping the Opel and tooling up its unique production line for it to turn a profit. So they spent the money they didn’t have to bring the S series up to date on bringing the L series to market putting them even deeper in the hole.
They also spent way too much setting up the separate dealer network. Saturn might have turned a profit had they dipped into the GM parts bin and sold them through the Chevrolet-Olds dealer network.
The problem with that approach, in retrospect, is it eliminates the one area where Saturn initially did succeed. The dedicated dealer network did successfully create a unique – and largely positive – buying and servicing experience for owners.
But that separate dealer network is what led GM down the path to the L series. Customers came back because they were satisfied but wanted a larger car. If it had been a sub brand sold at the Chev-Olds dealer they would have had something to sell w/o the exercise of throwing more good money after bad that was the L series and the others that followed.
The problem with that approach is that it would have branded Saturn a failure from day one.
The exceptional dealer experience helped people ignore that the S-Series was an unexceptional car. Put it in Chevrolet or Oldsmobile showrooms, sold by typical old-school salesmen, and you have another 1981 J-car fiasco right from the start, only this time with plastic body panels.
Then again, in retrospect, that might have saved GM money in the long run, as the Saturn probably would have lasted about as long as the Edsel.
The separate dealer network was what made Saturn different. Better customer service, lower pressure, and most importantly distance from the other GM brands. Selling it though another GM channel would have negated the entire point. Chevy dealer? Nope, you’d have it competing against the Cavalier/Cobalt, can’t have that in the very same showroom. The salesmen would push the one with higher margin and ignore the other. Same problem with the Sunfire at a Pontiac franchise. And, had they saved money by going this route and had the L-series been more competitive, it would have taken sales from the N-body cars. Just too many arguments against putting them into a multibrand dealer.
There was a very small, if even extant, overlap between “car people” and Saturn buyers, so I’m sure the article’s assertion that most Saturn buyers didn’t know the L-series wasn’t a “real” Saturn is true. The main problem was that it was a mediocre car, and the styling went from bland to weird with the refresh. Having the only midsize wagon in the GM lineup was unique, but as poorly was wagons sold at the time, it probably didn’t matter. So even if they’d had the money to do another car from the ground up, I don’t know how much better it would have been–GM was putting out almost nothing worthwhile at the time anyway.
An enlightening read. There were few cars that were less interesting to me than these. I did not know that these used the plastic body panels.
It always seemed to me that Saturn rode the same arc as every other GM car division, onlycompressed. It started as a standalone operation that designed, built and sold cars in its own unique way. It ended as just another on GM’s platter of brands that differed from the others the way Chef Boyardee’s ravioli is different from its Beefaroni – same stuff, different look.
It also always seemed to me that the “we have to grow with our customers” mantra is a bad plan for a Division that is supposed to be a strategic part of a bigger company. This philosophy led to most of GMs lines trying to cover way more of the market than they should have.
+1 Well said
Very much agreed. I wonder if a better take on the Sloan ladder for the modern age would have been, instead of every manufacturer being a full line, more focus on specific segments. Chevy still would have been full-line of course, and perhaps Buick too, as the “traditional” nicer versions of Chevy cars.
But the others would have a mission. Picture it, late 90’s. Saturn sits at the bottom of the ladder, does small cars, and does them right. The original Vue, tidily sized, fits in with this plan as a CUV counterpart for the S-series.
The customer then steps up to Oldsmobile, whose lineup is pared down to a few models, and ones that offer a bit more flair and driver involvement (dare I say Euro feel?) than a Chevy or Buick. Imagine an Alero without the legion quality problems and lousy interior, plus better suspension tuning, and then another car model sized in between what would have been the Intrigue and 88, but a legit competitor to the likes of the Passat, Maxima, or even S60. A wagon is available, AWD is available, several engine choices. There could be an SUV as well, but something other than the Blazer-with-a-nose-job that the Bravada was.
Ready to move up another rung? We’re not going to offer a “big” Olds because that’s not what you’re looking for, it’s time to move over to Cadillac. Imagine a Catera that wasn’t a joke, sort of a proto-CTS (since the CTS wouldn’t appear until about 5 years later). Plus the Seville, which was pretty good as-is (until Northstars started grenading) and the DTS for the luxury traditionalist.
Three rungs, no waiting, because who followed the ladder all the way up? Did anyone ever start in a Chevy, end in a Caddy, and hit Pontiac-Buick-Oldsmobile in that order on the way up?
And no, I didn’t forget Pontiac. Pontiac=performance. As such, they’re not really on the ladder, but they do have a mission. Firebird? Check. Bonneville? Only offered with a supercharger, and let’s not screw up the styling like they did in 2000. (The ’92 to ’99 was actually pretty good-looking.) And, to reach the younger crowd who were just starting the tuner scene, let’s do a real sports coupe. None of this Sunfire GT business, make it handle, give it a turbo, and don’t make it look *anything* like the Cavalier.
Two full-line brands and four focused ones sounds like a lot better plan than five full-line brands plus Cadillac.
I like that plan a lot. It’s a much better strategy that limits GM brands from competing with one another and cannibalizing each other’s sales. I especially like the Saturn-Oldsmobile-Cadillac ladder. If only GM could have logistically done this. It would be nice to have all these killed brands around today, so long as there was a place for them.
As you stated, I don’t think many people progressed from Chevrolet all the way up to Cadillac, stopping everywhere in between. My own grandfather owned a series of used Chevys and a Buick, then a new Chevrolet Bel Air in ’65, then a used Oldsmobile from his brother in-law, and then finally new Oldsmobiles for the rest of his life. Once people found a GM brand they liked, they stuck with it.
I agree. With a crystal ball, or time travel, this is the way to fix GM. The problem is, to make it work you need to start combining/eliminating dealerships back in the ’60s, and in those days who could see anything but continued expansion forever?
As long as you have a separate dealer network for each brand, each of those brands has to cover the whole range of cars.
Another great article-but I will disagree with one point. My family was what GM Advertisers were dreaming of. When my parents got married their first car was a Malibu, my father got his first promotion and the Malibu was traded in for a Grand Prix. Soon I was in High School and my father moved to the corner office and the Grand Prix was traded in on a Buick Park Avenue. Then finally after the college tuition was paid the Park Avenue was replaced by a Sedan DeVille. The worst thing ever to witness is your father showing off his new car and relize his dream would turn into a nightmare. The Sedan DeVille was traded on on a Mercedes Benz and my father hasn’t looked back.
Stories about GM products always get round to krappy quality. Until GM can tame this beast, they will always be forced to put huge discounts/rebates on the hood to move the metal.
My dad had a 2001 Saturn L200, and it had the sleeker nose… It rode pretty good, but only lasted till about 102,000 or so miles. Pretty much a “disposable ” appliance of transportation.
My mom’s 2003 Cadillac CTS is a nice car, but like the Saturn has that awful, cheap plastic dashboard and trim. Way to go GM… You must’ve gotten a great deal on bulk plastic.
No wonder more luxury owners go to Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus.
The Achilles heel of the original CTS was that interior. It was odd-looking *and* the materials were subpar. They fixed that, of course, with the genuinely nice interior in the 2nd-gen cars, but you only get one chance to make a first impression! And while the 2nd-gen did well enough in sales, it could have done even better had the 1st-gen been a more complete car, both from repeat buyers and from folks who looked at the 1st-gen and found it competitive enough to come back for a look at the 2nd-gen even if they had bought elsewhere.
original CTS interior matches well with the sliding status of the car itself. it’s not uncommon to see a $7000 CTS beater in college with beaten&dirty interior with a whole trunk of water/rust. Some original CTS ends up somewhere much worse.
Scumbag GM :
Waits until Opels are lousy to sell them in the United States.
LOL. Who wants to photoshop the hat onto the RenCen?
My retired mother has a 2003[?] LW300 wagon with V6. I got to drive it on my last visit, no danger of driving thrills there. Only 24K miles on it.
When I was a kid, I remember her saying she liked the then-imported Opel Kadett (though she doesn’t recall that now). So in a way then, she finally got an Opel.
True, Constantini…
I wish GM was selling fun to drive Opels, thru Buick dealerships, again… Like the Opel GTs, Kadetts and Mantas.
You might like the ATS although they are quite expensive. A used one would be good.
These should all be in the scrapyard by now.
Wife and I had two S series. Drove them like rented mules and they held up very well. Cooling fan replacement for both and not much else. Liked the L series but not enough to move up from our plebeian vehicles. Steve Lang did mention them as surprise vehicles on his 300k trade in list. I have seen the wagon being used by various repairmen as a service vehicle.
I realize that isn’t going to ring the bell of most of our readers but you could punish me with one. Make mine a light colored wagon please.
Great article. A co-worker of mine had an early 1990s Ford Tempo that had been reliable and was free-and-clear of payments, but was approaching 100,000 miles. His financial situation wasn’t the best, but he kept saying that he should get a new car. I tried to explain that it was best to stick with the Tempo for as long as possible, but he didn’t listen.
One day he showed up with a used L-Series sedan. He ended up with the worst of both worlds. That car was constantly in the shop for major repairs, and he was still paying off the loan.
Regarding the Saturn Ion, in 2004 I test drove an Ion sedan, a Civic EX sedan and a Ford Focus wagon.
The Focus had the best chassis and steering, while the Civic had a better drivetrain. I could have been happy with either one. The Ion was simply hopeless. I really felt sorry for the earnest young sales “associate” that had to peddle that clunker. I figured that Saturn was doomed at that point.
Totally agree about the poor Ion. I saw one of the first our Saturn dealer got, and it was completely awful. Door handle mechansm felt like it was full of sand, and nothing improved from there.
I think Saturn was somewhat different in how their marketing was done. Supposedly they did not wheel and deal on the Saturn price tag. Trade-ins were given market trade-in value (however this is subjective in that the used car sales manager has to decide if your trade-in is above average or below average, etc…).
I do recall that Buick offered a “market value LeSabre” that was supposed to be sold much the same way as a Saturn.
We did not have a Saturn dealer out here in the wild west (and no Lexus or similar brands now [did at one time have BMW and Mercedes but they are gone])
In the mid-’90s, Oldsmobile also tried to imitate Saturn’s pricing strategy, by eliminating confusing trim levels and options and replacing them with its “Series I” and “Series II” designations that were meant to save build costs by equipping vehicles in two pretty basic forms (standard-spec and deluxe-spec). Much like Saturn, it was supposed to make the price tag clearer to the buyer up front.
The dealer’s markup was greatly reduced (in the 60’s the suggested retail price gave the dealers something like a 30% markup). The market cars were supposed to eliminate the haggling. Now dealer markup is abougt 10% I think, although the holdback does confuse things somewhat.
Then, as time went on, they kept the 1 & 2 notation but mixed it with trim levels, for even more confusion! My wife’s ’00 Alero was a GL1, from a lineup of GX-GL1-GL2-GLS. You’d think they’d pick one or the other?
Then again Chevy did the same thing with the system they still use (or did until recently at least), LS-1LT-2LT-LTZ.
Only General Motors (and British Leyland) could throw away a chance like Saturn. It seems the Saturn story gets more and more painful once you get past the first year on the market.
Always thought the 03-05 L series front hack job was right up there with the absolute worst: 61 AMC Ambassador and 74 Matador sedan. Like it was designed in a dark room. With Crayons.
The ION is bizarre. I own an 05 and it’s been reliable [minus the ignition switch, defective from early on. Fixed but still have to diddle a button under the steering wheel to remove the key].
Unlike the L pictured above, it remains dent free and all that Bizarro World styling goodness will still look pristine another 10 years from now. Though I’d prefer the 03-04 front clip over the 05 [another misguided attempt to “improve” a product].
A battery at nearly nine years, tires, oil changes, better than EPA mileage numbers, rides well, quiet. Too big for it’s size relative to interior room, but that’s about the only negative.
Saves me money and no car payments, long lived 2.2 Eco and GM Hydramatic 4 speed. Lots of miles left in it. No regrets.
The ION is bizarre.
When it came out I was checking it out at the Detroit show. Looked at that center mounted speedo and asked the person working the stand what was up with that. She said they put the speedo in the center so you can drop your eyes straight down from the rear view mirror to see it. huh? I don’t normally drive by switching my gaze between the rearview mirror and the speedo.
Much relieved when the Astra replaced it. I like hatchbacks, and it was decent looking enough, until I got inside. Hate the instrument panel. The gauges look cheap, the markings on some of the controls are hard to see. The worst thing was that amber monochrome display in the middle of the dash. I asked the worker at the stand if that was just an option, if there was a model that didn’t have it. No such luck.
I think about an Astra as a winter beater from time to time, but that instrument panel is still offputting.
Seems that GM finally got it right with the Cruze. Like the looks and the layout.
All true Steve. But the person working the stand was on crack or something. The center pod actually works well [not having to take your eyes off the road to check speed or gauges is a very real benefit].
Truthfully the only reason it was there was because the company had no clue what Saturn’s demographic really wanted. Since they didn’t want GM’s standard fare, these buyers must be weird. So let’s go with “weird” claim it’s “different’ make a plausible claim that a central pod is “better” and Bam! ION.
“Set to re-energize the small car segment”. And I’ll paint any car for 29.95. [But not very well].
The center pod actually works well [not having to take your eyes off the road to check speed or gauges is a very real benefit].
I had a rental Toyota Echo several years ago, which also had the center mounted speedo. I found it a terrible arrangement.
Since they didn’t want GM’s standard fare, these buyers must be weird.
One wonders why GM didn’t lift Opel’s entire line for Saturn, from day 1. Of course, at that time VW was thinking of leaving the US, so digging into another German parts bin may not have looked like a winning idea either. And, as I noted, I was distinctly unimpressed by the Astra when they did bring it in.
I’ve been very surprised how common L-Series are in California! Mostly sedans but I see them everywhere.
They tend to be one of those cars that I’ll see a few in a relatively short time period, then go a while without seeing any. As bland as they are, they tend to blend in a lot too. I’ve actually seen several wagons in the past few weeks, however. I think the wagon had more appeal to buyers who wouldn’t have considered a Saturn, as they were one of the only mid-size wagons available in the U.S. at the time that was priced at the affordable end.
“…around 2007, Saturn was actually starting to turn out some half-competitive cars again…”
Actaully, Saturn wasn’t ‘turning out’ cars anymore as a subsidiery, the Spring Hill plant was turned into a GM one by then. The Aura was a fancier Malibu, built on same line as other GM cars; may have been meant to be an Olds Intrique. Saturn, by ’07 was just a replacment for Olds, and overlapped Buick/Pontiac.
I meant Saturn as a GM brand, not as a subsidiary in Spring Hill, TN. In an earlier paragraph, I stated, “As time went on, Saturn became just like any other brand in the GM pool”. Saturn was still selling Saturns into 2010.
It is funny how GM gave Oldsmobile the ax, only to essentially move Saturn into that place a few years later. As I was writing this piece I was thinking how the Aura could’ve easily been an Oldsmobile Intrigue.
Aura could have easily been a Chevy also. By late 00’s GM could not keep 5-6 brand model going. No more 60% market share, and fewer buyers demanding ‘a Rocket V8’. Gushing about the Aura’s differences compared to a Malibu is moot.
GM is better down to smaller scale, none of the fake glitz. And the whole ‘Saturn/Olds was import fighter’, aren’t they all?
The 2007 Aura certainly wasn’t a “rebadged Opel” either, despite some GM marketing bullshit to that effect. Supposedly the “Opel Epsilon” platform wasn’t even compatible with “GMNA Epsilon”.
The merged car was the Opel Insignia — which was to be the next-gen Aura but instead became the Buick Regal after Saturn was axed.
Overall the car just never really stood out…kind of bland inside and out, and by the early 2000s, I think that Saturn had lost the novelty that gave them the audacity to charge sticker prices (although the rebates helped).
I definitely agree about that 2003 restyle. It was odd; the front end sort of reminded me of a Peugeot 505 in a weird way. I remember wanting to like them, and wanting to believe in Saturn, but the L Series didn’t do anything for me.
I’ve heard a lot of horror stories about reliability of the L, especially with the V6. Even when newer, I don’t think they had the best reputation, and long-term reliability has been much worse. At least that’s what I’ve heard, though I’m sure there are reliable examples out there.
My professor teaching Technical Communication was responsible for the design of this model. He mentioned, in Saturn they had more freedom than any other divisions in design ( well, when there was still a Saturn. earlier in the course, he mentioned, well, when there was still an Oldsmobile. It’s so fortunate for Buick in Flint because he stayed there dealing with the proposal of eating the plants grown on the company property, while we can still buy new Buicks nowadays. ) Also he mentioned the difficult communication between different cultures, with an example of joke not translating well to those Germans ( but at the same time, the joke sounds too mid-western to me ) and he felt they didn’t cooperate well with them overall. I think it explains some questionable characters in this car. He left the company not long after, because it was his 5 years unhappy at GM ( previous 30 is rather happy )
He mentioned Lee Iacocca and Bob Lutz quite often in the course too.
On the Saturn “sales experience”…
Does anyone here have experience with it? It seems like the trade-in value would be the weak link. I gather they were supposed to offer “market value” for the trade-in, but that’s subjective. The new car price could be anything from $5,000 to $5 million… as long as the dealer dictates the terms of the trade-in, we’re back at square one.
So, any former Saturn buyers out there? Was your trade-in value fair?
You are absolutely correct. After the first purchase, we found buyers for our cars when we wanted a new Saturn. Still am a fan of the car from 2001 back.
2002 Saturn Vue love/hate. I loved it ran it ran but the record there was abysmal.
The L series was the car that would make the tech’s hide and try to pawn it off on each other. Lot’s of problems, especially earlier cars. I do like the looks of these cars, at least the pre face lift version. But I remember a lot of former S car people bought these cars and were not happy. The Ion was probably more reliable although far from a great car. It was very low priced car for the time.
The original 2000-02 narrow headlight, pointier nosed L-series wagon in the first pic, looked like a Saturn, but…
When they changed the nose to that awkward looking(the Ford Contour facelift, comes to mind) one in 2003… The wagon in the lower second pic, looks like a larger Daewoo Nubira wagon.
Not a very flattering image to imitate. Eww.
LOL you are dead on about it looking like a Nubira Wagon.
Son inherited a loaded L-300 sedan from his mother as a first car. Pretty maroon, nice alloy wheels; I really liked the exterior of the first design. Interior was what they call at the old car shows a “twenty-footer.” Looked OK from the distance; as soon as you sat in it you could see the cheap materials and casual assembly. It ran well for him for a while, if not cheaply with the V-6. And then the dreaded timing chain gave out: a chain tensioner with plastic parts, that disintegrates into the oil bath, where it spreads throughout the engine and ruins everything. But then, you had a German engine with Swedish heads, built in England and installed in a second-line North American GM assembly plant-not exactly a hand-built Corvette V-8. At least he was smart enough to cut his losses. Found a second generation Fit manual, did his internet homework, got a good deal with a good loan rate-and now he is busily paying off his loan a little early while he buzzes contentedly and reliably around Central Ohio. Your History of Saturn Motor Cars, right there, unfortunately.
Iowahawk: the V6 uses a timing belt, not a chain. Problems like that were from the early 2.2s that had an inadequate oiler.
Regular car review did a very good video on a L300, it’s on youtube and worth every minute!
GM just didn’t care about Saturn, other then to have it cover Olds buyers, who were literally dying off. The L series, with such a wimpy names, was just kicked out the door as ‘good enough’ and destined to fail. The car had 3 name changes: LS, L-series, and then all L-300. To me, was as badly managed as Edsel or Eagle brands.
As an unlikely satisfied owner of a 2001 L300, I could not agree with you more. The muddied original advertising, constant nomenclature changes and trim variations did this car no favors. The mid cycle refresh just turned a bland car into an ugly one. How many strikes could GM inflict on a slightly flawed car to insure it’s ignominity? I suspect that it did just enough.
I ordered one fresh from the factory in January of 2001. From my research, it was the fastest 3 liter mid sized sedan at the time. It also had no plastic engine cover, that was a plus. And, the reveal was a seductive snake of intake manifolding that invited keeping it clean. I own it to this day, it has been nothing other than reliable. It continues to entertain me. It drives me from Toronto to Nova Scotia non stop once a year without fail. It still looks like new. Had I purchased a Taurus or Camry or Accord at the time, I may have had a similar tale to tell, but, how unlikely would that tale have been.
I have one of these. In fact, the same blue colour. Mine is a 2003 L200 2.2L with a stick shift. I actually really like it. I bought it 2 years ago because it was cheap. It had 218,000 kms on it when I got it, now it has 238,000. Drove it a couple of times between Edmonton and Vancouver, use it as a daily driver. It’s got a sun roof, fog lamps, alloys, but other than that it’s pretty basic. I’ll keep driving it until it falls apart I guess.
I remember that after all the Y2K hysteria ended, the year 2000 seemed like a time of a lot of optimism. I remember the ad’s for these were just full of that same optimism and hope.
Cars like this were a shame in the sense that they looked good on paper and they actually didn’t look bad in life either. But as consumers began to experience the product, it can do a lot of damage to a brand if it isn’t up to par. One of those cars I wanted to like, but was not adventurous enough to risk buying, even in spite of offering a wagon version at a time when virtually none of the competition was offering one (Except the Mazda 6, maybe? For a brief while they were offered at the same time towards the end of this Saturn’s life-cycle).
I know that when I was working for a dealership, it was these that solidified to me never buy one of the more modern, non-S Series models. There just seemed to be so many electrical gremlins and a lot of ECU failures, etc. I am old enough to remember the whole “Different Kind Of Car” campaign of the early 90’s, and by the time that the Vue, Ion, and these L-Series had been around a few years, I didn’t see how what Saturn was doing was any worse than the other crap that was being pumped out by GM. What difference did the the high failure rate of transmissions matter whether it was an ’01 L-series or an ’01 Impala? They all came from the same place. It all seemed very hit-or-miss, very haphazard at the time to me.
I’m not a GM hater. I just happen to like their older stuff better than the crap over the last 20 years. Much love for old A-bodies, B-bodies, and some other stuff. It just seemed for a while, that as they had gotten such a run for their money with the Japanese, they just began to craft these bland, emotionless autos, with anemic power trains and forgettable looks. I will say it is a shame that they couldn’t at least give this car that production isolation that the S series got. These had a lot of potential to be popular long term and compared to Accord/Camry would probably be an also-ran in terms of sales, but I think that by putting a bit more into the engineering, would have been resulted in a stable model.
It was also all about timing as well and the timing was a bit off. In truth, Saturn should have already been developing this car when the S-series debuted for 1991. If the L-series had been thoughtfully planned in the way of the smaller car, and made it’s debut for say, the 1994 or ’95 model year, we may have seen a different outcome and a much more competitive model for the times. I think that Saturn needed to approach the 90’s much in the way Honda did in the 70’s. They had the Civic and continually refined and upgraded it, but also mid-way were able to get the Accord to the market. By the end of the first Gen accord, Honda was halfway through Gen II of the Civic and ready to introduce Gen II Accord. It’s a shame that Saturn could not do something similar to really hone and refine it’s core products. The L-series had a lot of potential to be a core product.
Of course I’m sure GM was never willing to pony up the kind of cash for that, to have have had basically a few generations of Saturn models a little more than a decade after it’s founding. I think for this L-series to come on so late did hurt though.
I remember that after all the Y2K hysteria ended, the year 2000 seemed like a time of a lot of optimism. I remember the ad’s for these were just full of that same optimism and hope.
Cars like this were a shame in the sense that they looked good on paper and they actually didn’t look bad in life either. But as consumers began to experience the product, it can do a lot of damage to a brand if it isn’t up to par. One of those cars I wanted to like, but was not adventurous enough to risk buying, even in spite of offering a wagon version at a time when virtually none of the competition was offering one (Except the Mazda 6, maybe? For a brief while they were offered at the same time towards the end of this Saturn’s life-cycle).
I know that when I was working for a dealership, it was these that solidified to me never buy one of the more modern, non-S Series models. There just seemed to be so many electrical gremlins and a lot of ECU failures, etc. I am old enough to remember the whole “Different Kind Of Car” campaign of the early 90’s, and by the time that the Vue, Ion, and these L-Series had been around a few years, I didn’t see how what Saturn was doing was any worse than the other crap that was being pumped out by GM. What difference did the the high failure rate of transmissions matter whether it was an ’01 L-series or an ’01 Impala? They all came from the same place. It all seemed very hit-or-miss, very haphazard at the time to me.
I’m not a GM hater. I just happen to like their older stuff better than the crap over the last 20 years. Much love for old A-bodies, B-bodies, and some other stuff. It just seemed for a while, that as they had gotten such a run for their money with the Japanese, they just began to craft these bland, emotionless autos, with anemic power trains and forgettable looks. I will say it is a shame that they couldn’t at least give this car that production isolation that the S series got. These had a lot of potential to be popular long term and compared to Accord/Camry would probably be an also-ran in terms of sales, but I think that by putting a bit more into the engineering, would have been resulted in a stable model.
It was also all about timing as well and the timing was a bit off. In truth, Saturn should have already been developing this car when the S-series debuted for 1991. If the L-series had been thoughtfully planned in the way of the smaller car, and made it’s debut for say, the 1994 or ’95 model year, we may have seen a different outcome and a much more competitive model for the times. I think that Saturn needed to approach the 90’s much in the way Honda did in the 70’s. They had the Civic and continually refined and upgraded it, but also mid-way were able to get the Accord to the market. By the end of the first Gen accord, Honda was halfway through Gen II of the Civic and ready to introduce Gen II Accord. It’s a shame that Saturn could not do something similar to really hone and refine it’s core products. The L-series had a lot of potential to be a core product.
Of course I’m sure GM was never willing to pony up the kind of cash for that, to have have had basically a few generations of Saturn models a little more than a decade after it’s founding. I think for this L-series to come on so late did hurt though.
From my own personal memory and cars.com, “No-haggle pricing gained traction in the 1990s after GM’s Saturn brand adopted one-price selling, and consumers gave the brand high satisfaction ratings for its low-stress buying process.”
As a life-long car-nut and former car salesman, I really believe this is the only reason Saturn was ever the least bit successful. Their vehicles offered nothing even remotely revolutionary or for that matter even different (other than the plastic body panels) than many others out there. The emphasis really was on the buying experience, with gun-shy customers feeling more at ease because they didn’t have to negotiate, something many people are not good at. In the long run, this only means that every buyer is paying full retail price for their cars because there was no other car to compare it to. The MSRP is set by the manufacturer, all they had to do was inflate that price a little and then show the customer’s a phony discount to make them happy. What a scam.
Regardless of opinion on the shared corporate underpinnings, the 2000 model was sleek and attractive enough. The narrow headlights and minimal grill and generally clean lines…not a bad looking car at all and far more personality than a Camry or Accord. The refresh screeeeewed that up, big time! All bug-eyed and chintzy, like a b-segment economy car blown up to midsize. It’s terrible looking, hard to believe it’s the same car.
That facelifted nose is really something else, it looks like someone stuck on a photocopier and hit 120% scale while the rest of the car stayed on 100%. Being very familiar with the Vectra donor model I think the pre-facelift L series looks different and attractive but 2003 onwards – yikes!
The arrival of the Accord put a big hole in the Sloan ladder. Priced like a Chevy, it carried a much higher status- it was actually declasse. In any case, GM never designated a car or cars that would directly complete with it or it’s European sports sedan flavor. Perhaps a Chevrolet/Oldsmobile with the exact Accord dimensions. Buick/Cadillac would be Legend sized. But the idea would be to not have “sport” models or “Euro” models. The European DNA would be baked into the design. In this scenario, Pontiac wouldn’t make the cut.
Reading all the Saturn info reminds me of what American Motors went thru. They (AMC) were good cars, but they never had enough cash to redesign. The 70 Hornet wagon was used till the end of the AMC production run, with the 1988 Eagle body being the same as the 70 Hornet.
I had four Saturns; the Relay III, VUE, SW2, and SL2. Never had an L, however, family members did. It wasn’t a good experience for them. Problem was build quality, recalls and size. I’m over six feet tall, so the S series was too low and just barely large enough for my legs. I wore those cars. The L should have been better, but it wasn’t – less leg room for the driver.
We had a great Saturn dealership. We enjoyed owning more than one Saturn. On the other hand, we were aware that there were better vehicles out there. It is just that, for us, we had to have a GM car because my father-in-law was a long time GM mechanic and my wife and I felt obliged to follow along with her family’s choices of GM vehicles.
No matter what, our Saturns were always better than our cousin’s Chevrolets. With every family gathering, we’d always discover that no matter what, at least we didn’t get a Chevy. The Saturn wasn’t the greatest, but it was always better than the Pontiac or the Chevy her cousins were cursed with.
We stuck with Saturn until they closed. Then my father-in-law suddenly passed. When the Relay III needed to be replaced, we needed a minivan with all our kids, and we required an American brand. The Town and Country has been flawless. When the SW2 started to lose it’s third transmission, we needed a bigger vehicle with all our kids in car seats, and I wanted a Ford. The old Crown Vic Sport I still drive has been the best car I ever owned.
I wished I could have stayed with Saturn, but it couldn’t stay with us.
My aunt had an original S model from 1990(?) which she loved dearly. All 80 horsepressures being abused on the regular during annual trips from Minneapolis to Kansas City, lots of redlining going on with limited advance in forward momentum.
In 1999 she was looking for a change and went back to her dealer and got an SC1. The story goes that she ordered a purple one, because she’s a lifelong Vikings fan, but ended up with a green one after the purple one fell off the truck. They threw in a spoiler for free. The 100 or so horsepressures were similarly abused for 10 years. The car holds a vaguely soft spot in my heart because I passed my license test in it. When she was going to buy another Saturn, she found her dealer franchise had shifted to VW. She bought a convertible Beetle.
As for other Saturn stories: an acquaintance regularly peddles circa 98 Saturn somethings or other for $3k. Not sure how, but I guess there’s a sucker born every second. He even had a couple that he refused to sell to his brothers, but rented to them for $150 a month; they were still responsible for maintenance and insurance.
I have to respectfully disagree with most of the negative comments. I purchased a light blue 2003 L200 used with 50k miles. I drove it for 2 trouble free years and 25000 miles until a drunk driver sent it to the scrap yard. It drove well, no rattles, no complaints. A very solid car, not fancy but good.
I disagree with many of the comments about styling, interior, “parts bin” stuff and its roots from the Vectra. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and consumers will judge what they want to sit in or park in their driveway. Carping about cosmetics is childish at best; especially in light of the overall useful and capable features. Commentary about drivabilty, reliability and safety are welcome. Import biased, sarcastic comments are not. And as far as borrowing from parts bins or foreign subsidiaries, GM, as a company and will leverage the best of their best to create a solid product…that’s just fine. Just the facts, not shallow bias please. Sheesh….