(first posted 8/16/2018) In two years of writing for CC, I haven’t had many chances to feature Detroit’s fine products all that much. There are not many left around in most places I happen to frequent (Burma – where I did snap this Chevy, Thailand, Japan, France, Britain, etc.). By the latter half of the ‘60s, most American cars became just too big and thirsty for Asian and European tastes. American “compacts” are another matter, though. Here’s one that just barely managed to cheat the crusher for over five decades.
This is a Canadian “Plodge” Valiant, so that makes it more of a Windsor, Ontario car than straight-up Detroit. Still, what was it doing here, pretty much the furthest point on Earth from its birthplace? Let me rewind a little bit. It all started with a Karmann-Ghia.
I had to go to the Department of Land Transport, which is a sort of DVLA / MOT type of place. This is where folks come for all car-related paperwork: certificate of ownership, driving license, emissions testing, etc. One of the larger buildings has a six-lane rolling road out back, with a near-constant trickle of cars coming through. I was a bit slow to draw my phone out and only got couple of lousy photos. But there was a red car that seemed both very interesting and stationary.
I never grew up with these, so it took me a little while. I could tell it was a ‘60s Mopar, but which one exactly? I searched fruitlessly for some sort of badge or script on the car’s rear end. My mind went to the Dart after a moment of reflection, but I wasn’t so sure, The only script I could see anyplace was the word “Country” on the front fender, clearly not an original feature. As I took a few pictures of the tail, the car’s seller, buyer, a couple of mechanics and a Department guy were out front, discussing things.
I had a bit of a shock when I saw the interior. I know I shouldn’t have expected everything to be in its place, but this was pretty disastrous. The dreadful door trim and suspect seat covers were one thing, but that ghastly floor-mounted automatic did not bode well for the car’s originality, beyond mere esthetics.
Canadian LHD 1964 Valiant Signet Convertible (source: Wikicommons)
I would love to be able to compare this with an identical but 100% original RHD sister car. Fortunately, as we live in the age of the Intergoogle, I was quickly able to find a good interior shot of a LHD model from Wikipedia, which is a start. Pretty much standard issue 1964 Valiant, just like the rest of the car from that point forward.
There seems to be a great deal of difference between the two. This dash is bugging me because I don’t understand it. Perhaps this heavily modified Thai car was given a different car’s dash sometime after it was originally built. (Subsidiary question: which car donated its dash? I’ve not seen this shape before, but I’m sure someone has). It’s unlikely that the 1964 RHD Valiants used hand-me-down dashboards from the previous generation, a phenomenon I’ve noticed on other cars I found in this region: no known Valiant has this dash. But then, aren’t 99% of Valiants LHD? Or was this car assembled from Windsor-sourced CKD kits somewhere else (South Africa, for instance), with a crude locally-made dash? If anybody has photographs of original 1960-64 RHD Valiant interiors, please don’t hesitate to share.
As I got to the front and took a look, I was even more shocked. The engine was a longitudinal 20-plus-year-old Toyota mill. Looked like the an old Crown’s 3-litre straight-6. Or could be from an old pickup truck. Wow. This was a complete Cuban maquina job. The new owner was a well-dressed Thai guy in his early 30s. Stroke of luck: he spoke very good English. We conversed briefly.
Me: You want to keep that Toyota engine?
Him: No, it needs the correct engine. Probably a V8. It’s in typical condition for this kind of car in Thailand.
He winced as he said that. The whole car was visibly a rusty mess, but labour is cheaper here for folks who have the means and the desire to restore a car. Then I noticed the front wings had decidedly Valiant-like features. But I didn’t put two and two together.
Me, gingerly taking a swing at a positive ID: “Beautiful car. It needs a bit of TLC. It’s a Dart, right? Er… 1965?”
Him, pointing to the ‘PLYMOUTH’ script up on the opened hood: “It’s a Plymouth Valiant Signet from 1964. Made in Canada.”
Me, wide-eyed and only now seeing the unicorn for what it was: “Oh? OOOOH! It’s a Plodge!”
1964 Canadian Valiant range
I had still rather fresh memories of the Dart-based Canadian Valiant’s very existence thanks to Paul’s relatively recent CC post on the matter. I realized that a Plodge Valiant Signet RHD convertible must be in the hen’s teeth category. According to an authoritative-looking source (oldcarscanada.com), Chrysler Canada sold 83,429 “American” cars (Canadian and US-made Plymouths, Dodges, Chryslers and Imperials), along with a few hundred imports from Simca and Rootes. The text also mentions 34,468 Valiants for that model year, but it’s unclear whether this was total production or Canadian sales only.
Regardless, the number of RHD Valiants for export to the UK (until 1966) and various Commonwealth / other destinations is unknown, but cannot be much more than a few thousand. That would make this expensive convertible extremely rare indeed. Here’s how our feature car would look if it could still lower its soft-top. Quite a looker.
I love a good obscure Mopar oddity from unexpected corners of the globe, don’t you? There were several notable ones. The 1957-64 Aussie Chryslers and their heavily facelifted ’54 Plymouth body. The South African branch who never got the memo about DeSoto and just carried on regardless. The leather and unique interior of Barreiros Dodge 3700 (1969-77) turned a lowly Dart into a sort of Spanish S-Class. It was also the last series-built American passenger car made in Europe, if I’m not mistaken. Now, as to what “1980 Dodge Polara” means to a Brazilian…
Can’t really say much about the original engine, obviously. It likely left Ontario with 3.7 litre (225 ci) Slant-6, also used in some of the other “Global Chryslers” seen above, has a solid reputation for reliability and ample power (144 hp). On the other hand, the 4.5 litre (273 c.i.) V8 would be eminently suited to the car’s top-of-the-line status. And it arrived, sporting 180 hp and freshly imported from across the Detroit River, onto the Canadian Valiant Signet’s options list in the last months of the 1964 model year, so why not indeed? I hope the new owner will pick one of these two. And the push-button Torqueflite. Gotta have that. The amount of work this car deserves is daunting. Although I am not a religious man, a few words of encouragement in the form of a prayer would perhaps not be amiss. Ahem.
In the name of the Signet, the Dart and the missing Slant-6, I Plodge farewell to thee, Valiant traveler from the frozen north. We hardly knew ye existed, but you found a place in the sun and a new owner who will tend to your many woes. May you turn heads once more in the future. May your rag-top be mended back to its former drop-top glory. May your pitted chrome cast away its rust and shine again. And may your motor, transmission and other sorry misdeeds be thrown to the heap, to be replaced by what thy Creators intended.
Or at least, a Chrysler engine.
Related posts:
Cohort Outtake: 1963 Valiant – Another Canadian Plodge, by PN
Cohort Outtake: Plodge Valiant – Plug and Play, by PN
Curbside Classic: 1949 Dodge Special De Luxe – What the Plodge?!, by David Saunders
63/64 the Australian AP5 Valiant hit the road no convertibles or two door versions though any Signets here have been brought in from the US or Canada built up, I had a AP6 which are nearly the same, that dash isnt from a RHD Valiant, I wonder if came with the engine.
Agreed. My AP5 dash was pretty much a mirror of that red Canadian interior pic.
My initial thought on that dash was Hillman Hunter circa 1970, but though some of the shaping is similar, the detail layout doesn’t fit. I do wonder though if the front seats and dash came from the same donor.
God almighty – times like this I feel lucky
There’s something really off about the headlight location on that car. They seem to be at least an inch lower and protruding more than they should be. Is it possible that Canadian Valiants actually had subtly different front fenders? Maybe there were different headlight height requirements in Canada. Or even some sort of wacky body work.
Whatever the reason, the front end just doesn’t look right.
I noticed that, too, and it appears to be an illusion created by the camera angle, and the effect of the hood (bonnet) being raised.
The front of the hood – where it meets the grille – is thicker than it looks when in the normal, lowered position. The way it tucks in at the bottom, and the sharp crease at the leading edge that flows into the fenders, serve to disguise the overall height of the front end.
(I’ll admit to not the best at describing visual cues – especially before I’ve had my second cup of coffee – so my hope is the another friendly CCer can add to this explanation if it’s not 100% clear).
The headlamps and their fixtures and bezels on this car aren’t original, which is what’s creating what you’re seeing; you’re right that the lamp units are far further forward than stock. But they aren’t any lower than stock—Canadian ’63 and ’64 Valiants have the same fenders as US, Australian, Mexican, and South African ’63 and ’64 Valiants, amongst other national Valiant variants. The fenders on this car haven’t been modified to move the headlamps lower. And as in the US, Canada did not have vehicle safety standards when that car was built.
A true mystery indeed. One can only imagine what this car has seen, experienced, and endured.
May she continue to percolate for a long time yet – and, hopefully with a Chrysler engine.
I can’t see the belt accessories, but the lower dash looks like hang-on air conditioning. Did it have air?
Yes, it did. Looked far too plasticky to be anything earlier than the ’80s. Pretty much in keeping with the rest of the car…
A fart can exhaust on a Valiant. That’s a new one.
Wow, so many mysteries from the same car. I got nuthin’ on that dash.
Also, the edge of that convertible top is like nothing I have ever seen. One more – the thick rubber (?) weatherstrip on the leading edge of the rear quater window looks very not-Chrysler.
I dunno. As a Canadian and a Plodge fan my initial thought is that this one’s already been rescued several times. I don’t mind the Toyota engine but yes that shifter must go.
Maybe if I could pay a good restoration shop with a low baht per hour rate…
A Canadian Plodge is already by definition a kind of “Frankencar,” but this unfortunate example seems to have traveled the entire length of the River Styx. The ratty condition of the convertible top, the odd shape of the rear used-to-be-a-window, the non-original engine and transmission,and the botched right-hand-drive interior all conspire to make this look like a former two-door hardtop. With this amount of “messing,” one can only speculate as to the amount of sorrow that this car has seen. Unless the new owner has an emotional connection to this particular make and model of Mopar, I’d advise him to drive it (if he must!) as is. He’ll certainly never recoup the cost of a proper restoration, no matter how low the hourly labor rate. Sometimes you just have to know when to say when. Kudos to TATRA87! This one is a unicorn and a half!
The first thing to cross my mind when seeing this car was my late grandmother. Ironically, she passed away a year ago this week in an assisted living facility. When I visited her it was always a stretch to keep the conversation going, as she was only occasionally lucid, suffering with dementia. One thing I mentioned frequently was that I was driving her car (the ’99 300M that I just recently replaced). I was always sure to tell her how well it was running, etc. On one of the last few visits I brought up her car and she said, “Oh, my little yellow car. Leaks like a sieve!” I brushed this comment off, as her final Chrysler was red, so I had no clue what she was on about. Later I mentioned the exchange to my mother and she explained that before I was born (I’m a 1967 vintage) the first car that my grandmother went out and bought all by herself, for her own use, without input from my grandfather was a yellow Signet convertible with black top and interior. Apparently she loved that cute little yellow car and was very proud of it, but, as proof that her memory wasn’t totally shot, the car really did “leak like a sieve”.
Touching illustration of how some cars stay within family lore, even in generations that never knew it first-hand.
I’m wondering though: what was “leaking like a sieve” – the convertible top, or the oily bits?
She was apparently referring to the top. My mother couldn’t remember the whole story, but apparently the well behind the back seat would fill up with water if the car was left out in the rain, then it would find its way into the trunk, under the back seat and into the footwells, etc.
My favorite high school English teacher drove a ‘65 Valiant convertible, red with white top and red/white interior. Pure Valiant, no Plodge. This car brought back great memories of his class. And what a find!!
The taillights are from a ’58 Dodge.
The plot thickens!
Excellent eye for detail, Mr Polistra.
The more I look at pictures of ’64 Plodge Valiants, the more odd the one I found becomes. The very end of the fins seems to have a strange shape, too.
You’re right; the tailfins have been made slightly less vestigial—pointier—by dint of bodywork. Originally (see attached) they’d’ve been capped with stainless trim. For the matter of that, it looks like there’s been a fair amount of resculpting in that area. Originally the taillights mounted to a down-angled plane; on the red car that plane is vertical. I’m sure there’s a lot more nonstandard stuff like this to be found with additional study.
(I noticed the reversing lamps on the boot lid have been dyed and repurposed as turn signals, but then I would…)
Well spotted!
Two possibilites about the odd RHD dashboard…
One is the dashboard developed specifically for RHD to be used in several vehicles. It was common in the 1960s with ‘boilerplate’ dashboard being used in other GM export vehicles with minor variations.
Two is the donor dashboard from the RHD vehicles unrelated to Dodge. In Bolivia and Paraguay, it’s not unusual to see Nissan or Toyota with ‘wrong’ dashboards. These vehicles were originally RHD and registered in Japan for four years or so before being dumped overseas. The cottage industry in Bolivia and Paraguay converted them to LHD without any consideration whether the dashboard fit or not.
Your № 2 is certainly correct here; the dashboard in the red car is alien. The ’63-’64 A-bodies all over the world had mirror-image dashboard configuration for LHD and RHD versions, plus or minus details. To narrow it down further, I don’t think there was a RHD version of the ’63-’64 Dart dashboard; I’m pretty sure the RHD cars all got a version of the US ’63-’64 Valiant dash.
Saints preserve us! If that car could talk…!
No, it isn’t. That hood badge came from a US-model car; the Canadian hood badge read VALIANT. Canadian Valiants weren’t badged or marketed as Plymouths until ’67.
The taillights are alien, too, but I can’t place just what kind.
It is a Plodge, albeit with all “Valiant” badges deleted / lost. I would advise caution on the Plymouth script on the hood: it is not impossible that these were marketed as a Plymouth in Thailand and just “Valiant” in other markets.
After all, if they marketed the ’62 Dart as the DeSoto Diplomat in South Africa and Chrysler Canada rebadged some Valiants as Dodge Lancers (for export only) around the same time too. Plymouth was a well-established brand in some countries, perhaps some Plodges came out of Windsor with American-sourced hoods.
A fair point about the name games, but on stuff like this it’s easy to veer too far into speculation territory. I think I will stick to my read of the situation—and of the Canadian factory parts cattledogs that list out the export parts in detail. The hoods were surely not American-sourced; that would have cost Chrysler unnecessary money in import duty, for the Auto Pact was not yet in effect in ’64. Chrysler were making the same hood stamping in Canada for the Canadian-built ’64s, and the factory literature does not support the idea that a “Plymouth” badge was installed on any ’64 Valiants made in Canada for domestic or export destinations.
(Yes, it’s a weird kind of fun to come across parts denoted “Valiant conv to Lancer/Export” in the FPCs. And also remember the Lancer with the RHD Valiant dashboard, badged and sold as the DeSoto Rebel in South Africa from ’61-’63!)
The engine swap is no surprise, parts to rebuild slant 6s were scarce in Aussie in the 80s that engine had been out of production as far as anyone there knew since 1970, my Ap6 was wrecked for parts after the next owner crashed it he got more money for it due to its good engine than I sold it for, Little did anyone realise Chrysler in the US still made them.
That dashboard though, the peaked instrument covers look like 70s Toyota to me it could be just something cobbled together locally as a custom job judging from the rest of the car.
I’m wondering if the dash/gauges go with the engine to some extent.
A bit late here, but some things I noticed when comparing the mystery dashboard with that of a 1965 Aussie-built Valiant:
* Shape of horizontal dash top appears the same
* Windscreen vent in dash top appears the same
* Glovebox lid and handle appears the same – although upper portion with added trim slanted out
* Chrome trim across glovebox is located same place as on original dashboard (albeit underlying part of glovebox is slanting out more in modified version)
* Dashboard height appears the same
So my theory is that underneath everything it’s an original RHD Valiant dashboard, but that a new front panel has been fitted that’s padded (see the dimples and shadows around the instruments and controls), upholstered, slanted (the degree of the slanting can be seen in the upper side opening line of the glovebox lid), and re-insturmented. But really, without knowing who built it or why, anything goes – it’s quite the puzzle!
Scott, thank you so much for this !
It does look like they used a stock RHD Valiant as the base, then. But with a lot of modifications – which we probably done later in the car’s life.
Re: the rear – yes, lots of strange things here too, some of which were pointed out in other comments above. Many thanks for the comparo pic – it’s hard to believe it’s the same car..
And an interesting comparison of the feature car and a factory rear end:
The Chrysler Canada brochure shows the address ‘2277 West 4th Ave, Vancouver, BC’. I can’t make out the dealer’s name, but that address was the site of Plimley Dodge in the 1980’s and 90’s.
The site was redeveloped probably c. 2000 and is now the site of a Whole Foods Market. If you zoom in on the StreetView image you’ll see stylized hubcaps on the building columns as a reminder of the site’s history.
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2681909,-123.1569356,3a,75y,339.56h,97.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3FsakEpsV_D1WCB_lyWguw!2e0!5s20220501T000000!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Vancouver may have an obsession with old car dealerships. It went to great lengths to save the 80 foot tall ‘BowMac’ (Bowell-McLean) Pontiac dealership sign on West Broadway, a 1950’s neon landmark located at one of the high points of the city and visible for miles. It was eventually incorporated into a ‘Toys R Us’ redevelopment in the 1990’s. The ‘BowMac’ portion is turned on at night.
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2634972,-123.1311451,3a,75y,139.83h,102.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s75yQhI5E-OCPU3Iy3RNgdA!2e0!5s20220701T000000!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Another oddball from the third world .
-Nate