(first posted 6/23/2014) Car marques have had a rough decade or two. Since the time I graduated high school, we’ve lost Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Saturn and of course, Pontiac. Pontiac?! Really? If you’d told Poncho bosses Pete Estes or good ol’ John Z. back in 1967 that Pontiac was going to one day wither and be unceremoniously axed by a mortally-wounded General Motors, either man would probably have nodded understandingly, politely excused himself, and then phoned for the guys with the butterfly nets.
But it happened, it’s a done deal, and Pontiac is gone. Too bad. At the time of the announcement, I couldn’t believe they killed Pontiac and kept GMC. Were they nuts? I mean, a GMC was just a Cimarronized Chevy truck anyway! Nevertheless, it happened, but we can still celebrate great Pontiacs: the 1957 Bonneville, 1959 Wide-Tracks, 1964 GTO, 1969 Grand Prix–the list keeps on going. Oh, and the 1967 Firebird of course.
The Mustang truly caught the automotive world with its pants down. There was never anything quite like it, and it sold like beer at a Cubs game. The 1967 Camaro and Firebird appeared in late 1966 as the General’s response to the Mustang Invasion, and while not as eye-poppingly hot sellers as the Super Falcon’s inaugural year, did quite well for themselves, and were very attractive sportsters in their own right. Bill Mitchell’s eye for smooth lines and balance of line was clearly evident in both the Chebby and Poncho variants.
If you’ve hung around CC long enough you may recall I have a bit of an infatuation with ’60s U.S. cars painted in aqua with aqua interiors. I had just waltzed out of “Mal-Wart” in a fruitless search for some 1/64-scale Auto World models when I spotted this vision in aquamarine at the far end of the lot. I immediately left the car and marched over, heedless of approaching motor vehicles or even locking my car. Ooh, pretty!
What was so great? Notwithstanding the awesome colors, this car did not appear to have been screwed with. No ’80s bucket seats, no aftermarket rims, no big honkin’ JC Whitney hood scoop. None of that happy horse crap! This car actually represents what you would have seen in the showroom and on the road in the late ’60s. It even had whitewalls! And as attractive as the Pontiac Rally IIs are, I loved the factory wheel covers with spinners.
I did not even bother to identify what was under the hood of this fine machine or even pin down the year until I began to write this post. Thanks to my camera taking gigantic 4000 x 2600 photos, I was able to sufficiently crop one picture enough to make the engine callout letters legible: 326.
Which would make this aqua/aqua decapotable a Firebird 326 (duh, right?). The 326 was one step above the just plain Firebird, and featured a (this will shock you, I just know) a 326 CID Pontiac V8. The 326 featured 2 BBL carburetion, 250 hp and a three speed column-mounted manual shift, with automatic available of course. Standard Firebirds made do with the compelling if unpopular OHC six-cylinder with 165 hp, a 1 BBL carb, and three-on-the-tree.
Upper tier Firebirds like the Sprint and 400 received floor-mounted transmissions, as well as ever-perkier motivation. And like the Mustang that started it all, a long sheaf of options were listed for your perusal. Even a bench seat could be specified, if perhaps less than popular with the “youts” who were this car’s main target. Being a Pontiac, Firebirds were just a little nicer than comparable Camaros, with standard Morrokide upholstery, woodgrain instrument panel, and other niceties. Sadly, no hidden headlights were available as on big brother GTO. I think the Firebird’s beak would have looked cool with them.
Apologies to you Chevy fans, but I’ve always found the Pontiacs to be just a bit better. A little flashier, a little sportier, a little more luxurious, a little more aesthetically pleasing. At least in the ’60s and ’70s. It’s why I’d take a Grand Prix over a Monte Carlo, a Bonneville over a Caprice, and a Firebird over a Camaro. I mean, I like the Chevrolets too, but the Pontiac is just a little more attractive.
Clearly this survivor has had excellent care or a very factory-correct restoration. And there’s that beak that was so prominent–and so appropriate for a car named Firebird. I have always found the flat-faced ’67 Camaro a little lacking in comparison–unless it has the cool RS nose with hidden headlights.
This car had it all, V8, drop top, most excellent aqua/aqua color combo, buckets and console… I could go on, but you probably get the gist of it by now. Yes, Pontiac is gone, but its extinction doesn’t mean we can’t admire some of their greatest hits. And good on the owner for not being afraid to drive it!
Now that’s more like it. A breath of fresh air after that crummy green Cutlass and the beater grade LeMans.
I can’t believe the owner wasn’t in close proximity, I mean leaving that unattended with the top down in a Wal-Mart lot?
I had a ’68 Camaro drop-top for years and I was always more comfortable leaving the top down. I’d rather come back to all the change in the ashtray missing than the top cut or an original Astro-Ventilation window smashed.
I always thought the OHC six with a two-barrel and a five-speed would’ve been a good combo in one of these.
There aren’t enough smart people left around to steal it. Everyone was probably walking by looking down at their useless phones instead.
+1
Pull the coil wire, that’s what I usually do on my Corvair when I leave it alone, though as someone else pointed out, there aren’t many people left who know how to steal this car, maybe a guy that just got out of the joint after going in back in 1974.
Really beautiful. And a hell of a lot rarer than a GTO or Trans-AM.
326 automatic, this was the average Firebird for 1967. I don’t have figures, but from what I saw on the street back then, there were more of this combination sold than any other. Of course, the majority of them were hardtops.
+1 I remember seeing a light green convertible from the USAF base in the 60s and how nice it looked.The rise and fall of Pontiac coincides with the golden age of American cars from 1955 to 1970ish.Pontiacs were highly sought after by English American car fans being seen as a step up from Chevys.Too bad they were shut down but apart from the Monaro based cars there was little of interest to most buyers after the Firebird was killed off.
Sort of the CC effect: last week I saw a late-’80s Firebird in almost the same color.
This has always been my favourite generation for the Firebird and its twin, the Camaro. The only thing I don’t like is the lack of proper analogue gauges for the temperature, the battery, and the oil pressure. Everything else looks perfect. 🙂
Never fear Jason,
The full gauge package was an option.
Why was it ever optional? Why wasn’t it standard with the car?
That’s simply not how Detroit rolled back in the day. Everything was a-la-carte, with a low quoted base price. I forget what vintage mag I read this in, but some Industry wag was quoted as saying “we don’t build cars, our customers do”.
So true.
That was back when you cold build it any way you wanted, from stripper to full boat loaded. The Mustang was the same way. Heck, I think everything short of a Vette or Jag E-type was the same back then.
I guess it saved a few $ by making it optional.
At least you could get a full cluster up until the end of production. I don’t there there are many cars you can say that about now.
I could be wrong, but I fail to see how it could save money by making something optional. I would think if it were standard, the customer would be saving money because what we want would already on the car or truck.
I see your point.
I only have these thoughts to add
-Not everyone cares about full gauges so why should they have to pay for them. (I really miss full gauges myself)
-Not everyone cares how many speeds a transmission has as long as it does its job
-some people just want the lowest price possible, so saving the $20.00 that the extra gauges added means something to them
-options add profit for the manufacturer. They charge $20.00 for the extra gauge package but it only costs them $8.00 to manufacture it like that.
Just my thoughts, they don’t necessarily reflect the opinions of management.
I’ve never owned a car that didn’t have at least an analogue temperature gauge. My first car was my stepdad’s 1977 Toyota pickup truck. It had a 2.2 litre 20R four cylinder gasoline powered engine. If I remember correctly, it had a gas gauge, a temperature gauge, and then it had oil pressure warning light and battery charge light.
Jason
My 74 Firebird Esprit doesn’t have an analog temp gauge either. Just fuel level and speedo (160mph speedo, how is that for ironic).
I’ve got a friend with a newer (2012 I think) Subaru that doesn’t have a temperature gauge either.
I guess since most gauges are really only glorified idiot lights these days anyway they didn’t see the need to include one.
My parent’s have a 2008 Subaru Outback (an upscale version of the Legacy). I’ve driven it many times during the time they’ve owned it. It has full gauges, including water temperature, battery charge, and oil pressure. Most cars these days have proper gauges.
That’s pretty unusual, I don’t think I’ve seen a Subaru with a full gauge package that wasn’t an STi.
I agree, most cars have a temp gauge, but very few have oil pressure and voltage these days.
The latest Mazda 3s don’t have temp gauges either.
@Jason – I am going to go out on a limb here and guess from your comments that you are a bit younger than the usual crowd around here? Which is cool, you are obviously enthusiastic about cars.
Back in the 60s cars didn’t come equipped the way cars do today because they did not have the same economies of scale that companies can take advantage of today. It really did cost the company more money to include additional features that perhaps not everyone wanted in the car. In an age where power windows were very much a luxury item reserved for the most expensive cars, things like a temp or volt gauge were simply not that important. Most everything was optional, and they probably made a decent profit off those options too, very similar to today when you can easily add 50% or more to the price of a car simply with additional options.
And even today, a full set of gauges is probably one of the least important thing to the average car buyer anyway. They don’t design cars for enthusiasts, so its much more important to have good bluetooth integration or a pretty looking touchscreen stereo. Heck, power windows are still way more important than a temperature gauge and you can still buy cars without those too. It really should not surprise you this much that cars in the 60s, or even modern cars, could possibly be sold without a temp or volt gauge. That’s like asking why every car doesn’t come with a sunroof or leather seats.
But either way, doesn’t matter. In reality, even cars that have the “full gauge package” you keep referring to aren’t really accurate gauges, they are slightly more functional than idiot lights, and they are there mostly for appearance.
Many of the vehicles sold today that have an oil pressure “gauge”, whether standard or as part of the optional package actually have an idiot gauge. Many temp gauges in modern cars are also a form of idiot gauge.
For the oil pressure gauge many times it is just a gauge that displays a given reading when it has power and ground. The ground is provided by an oil pressure switch, like used with an idiot light, but it is changed so it completes the circuit when the pressure is 8psi or above. That way the mfg doesn’t have to hear complaints about the “low” pressure at idle and the fact that once the car is hot the reading changes all the time, almost as if it was tied to the speed of the car or engine.
Many modern temp gauge are also modified to keep the customer ignorant and happy. Since the computer needs to know the engine temp they frequently don’t put a temp sender in the engine. Instead they pickup the signal from the PCM and the CAN Bus. Since there is now a computer interpreting the signal and commanding the gauge the curve can be modified as desired. For example and engine temp of anywhere between 180-220 degrees may make the gauge read at the exact same “normal” spot. Below that range may work normal and the gauge may go to full hot at 225, 230 or maybe 260.
Which is why I don’t really care about those gauges in a new car. Realistically, what is one going to notice? Temperature nowadays always stays within parameters, unless something (rarely) fails, in which case a red light coming on is more helpful. Same for oil pressure and voltage.
Back in the way old days, when cars and their systems were less reliable, and more prone to overheating and such, gauges made sense, IF you kept an eye on them, which of course most drivers didn’t. Nowadays, they’re useless. I have no use for them anymore.
Back in the day there was one exception. Chrysler insisted on putting an ammeter and temp gauge in everything, right down to the lowliest stripper Valiant or Dart. They even touted that fact in their advertising as part of their “Extra Care in Engineering” mantra. IIRC the original K Cars were the first Mopar products in a very long time, if ever, to come standard with just idiot lights.
Jason – No Subaru in recent memory, (by recent I mean back to the ’90s) not even the STi, comes with a full set of traditional needle gauges. Right through the 2014s, if you wanted a turbo boost gauge on a new WRX/STi, Forester XT, or any other turbo Subie, you had to get it as a dealer or port of entry-installed accessory. The 2015 WRX/STi only has a temp gauge on the dash, all the others are buried in the various menus for the LCD displays.
The Legacy/Outback of that era came with a temp gauge, with a “MPG indicator” added on the higher end models. Unfortunately the current model, like all other current Subarus except the WRX/STi, is stuck with the temp idiot light that lights up blue for a few minutes following a cold start.
I’ve always wondered about why some gauges get left out while others are sitting prominently in the cluster. My 780 has an oil temp gauge but not an oil pressure gauge–isn’t oil pressure the more important of the two?
And the Marauder had both oil pressure and voltmeter, but it was commonly rumored amongst owners that the volt “gauge” was basically an on/off switch that had three values – “too low”, “12”, and “too high”.
Chris, of the Marauder’s “aftermarket” Autometer gauges the oil pressure is the idiot gauge. You can put an Autometer true gauge in there instead but it is not an exact match. If you are serious you can swap the face from the OE Marauder gauge.
The voltmeter while not calibrated to match the reading from the computer, or a volt meter, but it is a real gauge.
^Right, how quickly I forget such things…must be getting old. (As if there wasn’t ample evidence otherwise…)
Eric has it right: many analog gauges are “dummy gauges”. My 1993 Ford Aerostar’s oil pressure gauge system is an analog gauge, a 20 ohm resistor in series with a std oil pressure snap switch. Once the pressure comes up to around 7 PSI, the snap switch closes, and the gauge moves to slightly above halfway. Stupid. I wrote a post with pics on how I converted the perfectly good analog gauge back to reading something useful. Click here to read it.
What’s worse? My 2003 E250 had a dummy voltmeter. The alternator died, but the voltmeter insisted the voltage was just fine. Arrgh!
@asavage, missed that the first time around. Yes many of the Ford idiot oil pressure gauges are just a standard gauge with the bias resistor on the flexible circuit board. A jumper around the resistor and a proper sender turns them into a real gauge.
If you look at real gauges they move around a lot more than than today’s “gauges”. Amp gauge has more range of movement from + to – often pegging one way or the other — oil pressure gauge is 10-20 lbs at hot idle – 20-40 lbs at cold idle, slowly climbing as rpms increase up to a top of 60 lbs, all depending on oil weight and condition — temperature gauge starting at lowest temperature and climbing to a little above the thermostat temperature before the thermostat opens and temperature goes down to the value of the thermostat or even below, remember changes in temps of materials like cast iron is not instantaneous nor is the temperature of the coolant — a vacuum gauge is one of the best gauges not only to judge condition of the engine but is also useful as an indicator of the fuel economy your car is getting.
Of all the other gauges I often thought would be one of the most useful but never installed would be an automatic transmission fluid temperature gauge, especially if carrying or towing heavy loads. I installed them in a couple of trucks I owned when I installed auxiliary transmission coolers in them. I actually installed the temp gauge before installing the trans coolers and you could tell the difference in temperatures.
I could be wrong, but, unlike the Camaro, the ’67-’69 Firebird didn’t have an available, complete gauge package. And the reason may have been that Pontiac was heavily into the whole ‘hood tach’ thing.
So, with the Firebird, you got a tachometer added to the hood, but no more gauges in the interior, not even the console mounted gauges that the Camaro got because the Camaro had the tachometer mounted in the cluster in front of the driver.
rudiger, I think you’re semi-right.
It looks like the 67-68 could only have a tach that was attached to the hood, but there was a full gauge package (minus tach) available called rally gauges.
It looks like you could get a dash tach in 69 and the other gauges where to the right in vertical rectangular cutouts between the gauges and hvac/radio controls. Of course you could also get the hood tach in place of the dash tach.
Yeah, the ’67-’68 had a gauge package that essentially added temp, gen, and oil pressue to the existing fuel gauge in the right dash pod with a tach on the hood. The only caveat is that you may have been able to get the tach or gauges as separate options. I’ve never seen that early Firebird gauge package in the right dash pod in person, though.
In 1969, the gauge package came out of the dash pod into a separate, rectangular, stacked arrangement located between the right pod and the center HVAC/radio stack with an in-dash tach (although the hood tach was still a separate, stand-alone option, surely without the gauges). Without the gauges, the bezel was either blocked off or had a lonesome clock, with the cigarette lighter beneath. I think the HVAC controls were with the radio in the center stack in any event.
Regardless, Pontiac did do a much better job of orienting their f-body gauges in a readable location than the Camaro, where the gauges were always located on the center console.
Now that I’ve read the post, this is a truly gorgeous car. Great lines and proportions, a “right-sized” muscle car. I must agree with you Tom that I prefer Firebirds to Camaros (with the possible exception of the 4th generation). That interior has the right balance of sport and luxury, with nice buckets, console and floor shifter, and a conservative amount of wood trim.
Wonderful car and I am starting to share you Aqua addiction! Why did GM kill Pontiac? I can understand the mercy killing of Oldsmobile (what did that stand for by the time it was put down), Geo (what did that brand ever stand for?) and Saturn (ditto)……… but Pontiac? We never got too many of these here in Australia but everyone here knew all about Pontiac Firebirds, Transams and other models. That brand had street cred even in markets where it was not sold! I know efficiency demands sacrifice but I reckon GM could have made a great sports oriented brand out of Pontiac. Was it all the fault of the Aztek?!?!?
I think the reality of GM killing Pontiac was that it was a PR move. A completely meaningless gesture to make it appear as though GM is “changing” with the help of our dollars. A virgin sacrifice to appease the Gods.
The funny thing is whenever someone makes fun of the Aztek in non-enthusiast circles is that it inevitably is referenced as “a weird ugly truck made by GM”, not necessarily Pontiac. I think even the masses now understand that GM is the problem, not the brands. I agree the Pontiac name still holds a lot of weight, regardless of the Aztek or gaudy cladding(which was NOT just Pontiac in the 90s/00s), and weight among people who will still be around decades from now who remember the GOOD cars, which even to the end had some GOOD cars. For that reason, if there’s any brand I’m hopeful of a distant future revival, it’s Pontiac.
GM didn’t kill Pontiac, the feds did. They did not like the fact that Pontiac billed itself as a performance brand. Killing Pontiac was one of the prerequisites to the bailout. The worst part? Pontiac had a new retro GTO in the planning stages. Heartbreak.
Any pictures please?
The killing of Pontiac was demanded by the Automotive Task Force setup by the Obama administration in order to receive the “bailout” funding. (Please note, I’m not making a political statement here.) In order to get the funds, they had to show they were reorganizing GM and cutting loose under-performing assets (Pontiac, Saturn & Hummer).
Hummer was sold to a Chinese concern, Saturn was almost sold and seems to be in permanent limbo, but GM has never sold the intellectual property rights to Pontiac. That fact alone makes me hopeful, but as the years go on, I wonder how/if they will ever manage to re-boot Pontiac.
Regardless, the cancellation of Pontiac was not a PR move, nor was it because it was the “performance” division. I’m a Pontiac fan, and frankly there hadn’t been a whole lot of performance for a while before the ax fell… I think the new streamlined GM is performing better than the old one with all of the extra divisions that were mis-managed into irrelevance.
Say what you want about GMC, but folks still line up to buy them. When we get around to replacing our Aztek (yes, I’m one of those people), it may be a GMC Terrain that gets our money.
I would dearly like to own another new Pontiac, as well as see the Cleveland Browns win the Super Bowl, but I can’t imagine either one happening in my lifetime.
The whole corporation was underperforming, that’s why they got bailed out. The Terrain, as I understand it was intended to be a Pontiac. Would you not buy it if it were a Pontiac or even a Chevy?
If the Terrain had ended up a Pontiac, probably. The cousin to the Terrain, the Equinox is high on our list to replace the Aztek. Of course, since we’re empty-nesters now, the upcoming (at least to the States) Chevy Trax is interesting. Along with the Jeep Cherokee and the Renegade.
I don’t think they ever ended up selling Hummer to the Chinese, it might have fallen through, GM was working on selling Saturn to Penske I think at one point, but that didn’t go through either, someone wanted to buy Pontiac, but GM didn’t have any interest. As far as I know, GM still owns all of these, Saab was spun off and is in limbo somewhere between Chinese and Spyker owning it, I haven’t heard much.
If GM decided to bring Pontiac back, I could see it working as niche performance division within the Buick-GMC dealer network, with maybe 3 models. I thought the Solstice was a great looking car that needed further polishing, a small-mid sized sedan based on the RWD Alpha platform-LeMans? Tempest?, and perhaps a larger Bonneville/GTO/GP? sedan/coupe.
Though I wonder, with the “image baggage” that Pontiac is saddled, right or wrong, if it would be worth it, GM might be better served with expanding the Buick line up to include a RWD Riviera and Park Avenue while importing the smaller sportier Opels, like the Astra GTC, Adam and Corsa to sell through Buick-GMC dealers, essentially re-creating the old Buick-Opel connection.
I really can’t remember exactly what happened to Hummer now, you may be right. I knew Saturn was in some weird limbo along with Saab, too.
It would be great to see them re-launch Pontiac (I think the first model should be called Phoenix) but I think you’re correct about the baggage from the years in the wilderness. IIRC, there were rumors that Pontiac was supposed to get an Alpha, but it got canned. It’s a shame the Solstice didn’t see a second generation, I would have loved to have seen it.
I think your assessment of adding some spice to Buick with the Opel connection is a good one. Chevy should have the inexpensive cars, while Buick holds down the mid level arena and Cadillac can reach up further. I’m not totally sold on the idea that GM (or other car companies) should only have two channels.
Obviously, Sergio doesn’t think two channels are enough either, but I think eight channels are pure madness…
What Fiat-Chrysler is doing is “pufferfishing” making itself look bigger than it is took try and impress or intimidate, it’s not working, considerin most of them are “fake” divisions made from existing products, no one calls their trucks a “Ram”, to everyone its still a Dodge truck, SRT “division”? What does SRT make? Is there an SRT dealer?
That should’ve happened, but instead GM sold Opel to Peugeot-Citroen! That was, in anything, a slap in the face of EVERYTHING GM stood for. I still get pangs everytime I see an Manta or Opel GT in good well-cared condition. As far as I’m concerned, GM is shooting itself in the foot.
hello from 2016 – via 1973
I can wholeheartedly concur with the point about street cred in markets where they weren’t sold (though there was an ‘American Car Centre’) somehwere in SW London. One of my earliest car memories is occasional sightings of a presumably then brand new Firebird Trans Am in the streets near my house and school. Remember I’m 5 years old and not yet hip to ‘real’ muscle cars. This car just did something to me – a whole body thrill. Like being circled by a friendly shark (not that I’d know) – utterly thrilling to behold. A little context – we didn’t yet have a car (and it’d be a 5year old ’70 145S when we did)-so a car that size, making that noise, body coloured & shaped bumpers (white with huge blue hood and side decals) and painted alloys with wide white-letter tyres – was utterly unlike anything I saw or came into contact with. I’d probably only ever actually travelled in an already ancient assortment of Austin 1100, Morris Traveller or Morris Oxford estate…
I guess the auto in those years would have been Powerglide. Right?
Actually a Super-Turbine 300, the BOP version of a Power-Glide, acts and sounds like one but a bit beefier.
And in ’67, still had a Switch-Pitch torque converter.
What I don’t understand is why the Powerglide used only two gear ratios while most automatics used three, or in some cases, four.
same a gauges. Cheap. You could get a 3 speed auto optional. 4 speed autos (with overdrive) were still about 20 years away.
Much has been written and debated on this site about that. Bottom line IMHO is that GM didn’t feel that they needed to have more than 2-speeds, although in all fairness the 2-speed concept was on it’s way out by ’67, gone after ’72.
At least a Switch-Pitch in the ST-300 gave you a semblance of an extra ratio.
That 326 cid V-8 may not have had a lot of horsepower by today’s standards, especially with the 2 bbl. carb, but it had more than enough torque for a small, light (3,200 lb.) car like the Firebird. In everyday driving, you’d never miss the additional gear ratio — at least until you got to the gas pump. But with gas selling for $0.30/gal in 1967.
It had more 40 horsepower than my 327 Camaro.
Pontiac offered an HO version of the 350 the following year that was quite a sleeper. I seem to recall there was a similar version of the 326. I don’t remember the exact BHP rating, but they used a quadrajet and the cam and heads from the GTO spec 400. It wasn’t a world beater, but it ran a lot stronger than you would expect. The best part was no special badges or hood scoops, they looked just like a run of the mill secretary’s special. The 400 was really too much for these cars, particularly the ’67s.
It’s nice to see this one in un-molested form, even the correct ( I think) hubcaps.
Ah! Ok.
You have to give the restorer credit for keeping those PMD hubcaps. A rare sight in these times of inexpensive 19″ alloys.
+1!
So rare to see a restorer with a sense of symmetry now a days.
They look great, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen them outside of a brochure!
Gorgeous car, I’d love to find a hardtop just like this, the 326 would keep the price reasonable and it would be a fun driver. Love the color too, it just seems to fit the classic vibe of the cars from that generation.
Nice car, but my guess is it’s probably restored, or at least repainted. It’s hard to tell from the photos, but it looks more like a base clear paint job than an original single stage lacquer.
Also, a small point, but the Firebird was not released at the same time as the Camaro. It was about 5 months later (IIRC).
According to Jim Wangers, Pontiac was given the new F-body as a consolation for being denied a production version of the two-seat Banshee show car.
Pontiac wanted to make more than mere cosmetic changes to the Camaro, so it was given corporate approval to launch the car about 5-6 months after the debut of the Camaro.
Also note that Oldsmobile wanted a version of the F-body, but was denied one by corporate management.
Corporate GM passed over Olds, and gave the F-body to Pontiac, partially because of the success of the GTO as well. Even though Pontiac asked for the 5-6 month delay for changes to the car, in the end it wasn’t really that much different than the Camaro. The biggest changes seemed to be standard 70 series tires and lower suspension. However, the marketing with the Firebird’s five variations was much better than Camaro’s marketing.
I thought the second gen Firebirds is when the car truly became it’s own car. And this was also probably it’s most successful generation.
Photos of the Pontiac Banshee had been circulating since the show car debuted in 1964. The 1967 Pontiac Firebird seemed, in comparison, like nothing more than a cheap rebrand of the Chevrolet Camaro, especially since the sheet metal from the cowl back was essentially the same.
But the cowl-to-rear lines of the Camaro/Firebird body owe more to the Banshee show car than most seem to remember. The front of the Banshee foretold the C3 Corvette…it even preceded the Mako Shark II, usually credited as the inspiration for the C3, by a year.
Photos, from corvette.nl
Great looking car. And I can easily see where GM took the Camaro’s lines from this car.
Had a 68 model. Just to show how fragile memory is, I thought I had a three speed auto. Probably did not but I thought TH350. Don’t know when BOP got those.
My 68 had a real gas hog 350. 8-10 mpg. Had a Chev 350 in a big school bus that got almost as good. The 326 was probably the perfect compromise engine. Would say the OHC sic but understand it had some problems and they sure quit making it quickly. The 326 got decent economy. Had the car in Panama and sold it before going back to the states. No problem finding a buyer because, as said above, gas was cheap.
In this time period, a GMC truck was viewed as a “Chevy with all the lock washers actually installed”.
Nice find! First-generation Firebirds are rare sights even at car shows, let alone the convertible version.
As to why GM kept GMC while giving Pontiac the ax – by 2007, GMC volume was about twice that of Pontiac volume, and far more GMC sales were to retail customers, as opposed to fleet customers. If I recall correctly, something on the order of 1/3 of all Pontiacs were being sold to fleet customers by 2007. Pontiac hadn’t made money in years, while GMC was profitable.
For those of us who remember the glory days of Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac, it’s hard to believe that GMC had the second highest volume of any North American GM division (after Chevrolet). But that was the reality of GM’s situation by 2007.
Pontiac’s glory days were long gone by 2007, killed by too many years of mediocre cars with cheesy plastic cladding.
The hapless Aztek was the final nail in Pontiac’s coffin.
Very nice find. I always preferred the looks of the Firebird to the Camaro too.
Yesterday I passed a ’69 Firebird convertible on the road. It was “fire engine” red with white interior. I was excited because I had built a scale model that looked exactly the same.
@ mmm4ever: I’m 41 yrs old. I’m too young to have driven a car during the 60s or the 70s. I didn’t drive my first car until just after high school.
Here’s a hypothetical hidden headlight Firebird. It’s not a photoshop just a hurried-up ms paint job, so it’s really crude, but you get the idea of what it would have looked like. I’m surprised no aftermarket company offered a conversion kit. If I had a custom car shop like Foose or the late Coddington did, this would be something I would have done.
Some cars look good with hidden headlamps, while others, not so much. This one doesn’t look very good with hidden headlamps.
I love that hidden headlight look. Reminds me of the 71-74 Charger with hidden lamps. Cool.
Looks like someone actually did it!
http://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=262507
Looks pretty sweet to me 🙂
I like that!
I really like this too! They should have offered it like Camaro did.
The aqua Firebird of this article is gorgeous!
This looks really good to me. Yeah, that should have at least been an option.
An article about a 1st-generation Firebird or Camaro convertible with no mention of cocktail shakers?
There’s a good FAQ at http://www.chevy-camaro.com/faq/chevy-camaro-convertible-cocktail-shakers.shtm .
2nd gen Corvair convertibles also had the cocktail shakers, try lugging around a garbage bag with 4 of those in them.
Gorgeous car. Makes me cringe when I hear about overpaid limp noodle midlifers “restoring” these Firebirds into their dream Camaros now a days(presumably because their daughters friends recognize the nameplate). Firebirds may have just been a nose/ass job to the Camaro body but damned if it doesn’t work beautifully.
As for Pontiac’s demise, I’m extremely bitter about it and have a deep hatred towards GM for doing it for the reasons they did it – “oh the cloned truck division was selling well pre 08?, Goodie, I’m sure that will last forever!”… “Oh the opposite side of the world likes Buick? Well we better keep it then! Not like we could just rebadge cars for different markets, we wouldn’t know anything about that!”. Frankly I’d have felt better if Chevrolet got axed, ala Dodge/Plymouth.
I’m not a purist when it comes to vintage cars. I like restorations to original if it’s done right. But I also like modifications if it improves the safety, the comfort, and the functionality of a car. 🙂
I’m not either, but turning a Firebird into a Camaro improves nothing.
I’ve never heard of someone turning a Firebird into a Camaro, so keeping GMC around “because it was selling well in 08” was wrong, but keeping Pontiac around because it was “the cloned chevy’s with ridges on the side that last was selling well in 68” was right?
I don’t like that they discontinued Pontiac either, but I don’t get the phony jealousy towards the divisions that survived, really discontinue Chevrolet? Doesn’t that sound like a little mixture of insane and sour grapes at the same time?
What’s to guarantee GMC had a brighter future than Pontiac? Everyone knows they’re nothing more than tarted up Chevy trucks, and you’d think with the big fuel spikes beginning around time and a government bailout putting on the pressure, that a redundant truck/SUV division would look pretty damn pointless to continue on with. Pontiac may not have been as strong as it was in 1968 in 2008 but it still had more reason to exist than GMC ever did. You honestly think GMC buyers would run off to Ford or Ram(also stupid) or Toyota instead of just going with the identical loaded Chevy?
I’ve seen two first gen Firemaros at shows in person, and I’m sure if I googled it I’d find dozens more
I’ve heard of someone turning a Camaro into a Firebird.
Hmmm, lets see, the fact that it continues to sell in large numbers 6 years on from when it was kept, in spite of “the secret” being out in the open….I wonder why sales haven’t dropped since “everyone knows they are nothing more than tarted up Chevrolets” (again…..what was Pontiac?) so there does seem to be something there, you do know that GMC does sell more than trucks now right? Some of its best sellers are the Terrain and Acadia.
Look, I sold Pontiacs, owned and still own Pontiacs, was in the Pontiac-Oakland club, so I like Pontiac, DO miss it and hope that it comes back, but really, enough of the sour grapes.
I googled Firemaro, I didn’t get much, some of the 5th gen Camaros converted to Firebirds, but that’s it.
Many props to Carmine. I may not like the news, but it is what it is.
RIP Pontiac.
Look, Carmine, I’m not trying to convince you or anyone else to be on my side on this. I think getting rid of Pontiac was a bold gesture mostly to show the public that big changes were indeed going on, and ultimately the number of divisions was only the tip of the iceburg that led to GMs bankruptcy. Of course Pontiac wasn’t any better than GMC in the badge engineering department, that’s my point, I seriously doubt Pontiac would have dragged the corporation down in the same way I doubt killing GMC would. My distain for GMC and Buick are purely out of bitterness and I believe I made that known in my first post, it’s my opinion and I’m sticking with it.
Look….
Really?
Starting a post with “Look”.
Ok, feel free to be bitter, remember what they say about hate, its like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
Or something like that.
Yes, I started a post with “look”, and you started a post with “Hmmm”. The problem is what exactly??? That I didn’t follow it up with condescension and attitude towards you?
I’m bitter towards GM, and I didn’t think I was addressing a corporation with my replies to you, so I don’t know why you’re taking it so personally. By the way, there’s a difference between bitterness and hate – I don’t hate GM, I’m simply irritated and resentful that the hammer came down on Pontiac. Does that mean I’m going to trash every new GM car that comes out? No, it means when they have a model in their lineup that fits a certain criteria I’ll always think “that should have been a poncho”, simple as that.
I agree, and I wouldn’t want a Firebird to be made into a Camaro. Just because they have the same basic body styling, it’s the nose and tail that make each unique, and what I like most. 🙂
+1
I’ve never agreed with you more.
Beautiful car in that colour and rare being stock.
I have always loved the firebird ever since growing up watching Knightrider and developing a love of the 3rd gen firebird with its sleek styling and the pop up headlights.
I also like the 2nd generation Bird a lot too, however I like the later version of the 2nd generation due to the square headlights
When they changed the bird for the 93-2002 style it took a long time for me to get used and to appreciate that body style.
I have never been a big fan of the Camaro and think it looked dated compred to the Firebird due to it keeping round headlights in the 2nd Gen(while the Firebird went to square lights) and also how the 3rd gen and pre 1997 4th gen Camaros, kept exposed squre headlights while the Pancho had hidden headlights. The new Camaro looks to much like some child’s drawing of a car that was put into production.
I do miss Pontiac and loved their 1980’s offerings with the Fiero, Grand Am(N body) and even Sunbird with its turbo offering and hidden headlights.
As this post is about Firebirds, I can post a pic of the car I just bought. It is a 1999 Firebird that had 88,184 miles when I got it 2 weeks ago. (It will get its own CC posting when I get time to write it up and email it to the mods) but since this seems like Poncho week I figure I would share it
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nice ride, pewter is a classy color on those birds.
I’m so very envious, Leon. I’ve wanted a 98-02 Formula in that pewter color since forever.
I too, miss all of the weird variations of Pontiacs, including the Azteks. Still have one out in my driveway. It’s our third one, wife still loves them. She insisted on finding another one when my Sunfire GT gave up the ghost last year.
the 67 and 68 Firebirds were really beautiful but after that thing they did to the grill in 69 it was all downhill.
The lines on this car are so beautifully drawn. So nice to see one without cartoon-car tires.
Put me down as one of those who misses the days of being able to order a car exactly as you wanted. Now you’re lucky to get an interior colour choice, we’re back to Hnery Ford’s “any colour you want as long as it’s black”!
Gorgeous Firebird. Makes me go weak in the knees to see such a nicely preserved/restored classic. I wasn’t aware of the differences between the first Camaros and Firebirds, other than the engines.
I really like that steering wheel. Real wood? The ad doesn’t say, though it does say that the extra cost floor shift knob is walnut. The aqua blue interior looks especially good with the fake wood trim and (fake?) wood steering wheel and shift knob.
I know what you mean. I prefer this any day over the 70s version of the Firebird, except for the Firebird used in Smokey and the Bandit, driven by Burt Reynolds. 🙂
I just watched an episode of Archer last night that spoofed Smokey and the Bandit. Archer and Pam were hauling a33 in a Burt Reynolds black T/A.
I’ve never watched Archer.
That’s steering wheel is awful, its a bad reproduction that I see on several cars, its really bad and not original at all, I don’t know cheap it is, but it I hate seeing them, especially when a correct reproduction steering wheel is available from several sources.
This is what a proper 67 Pontiac wood wheel would look like
Though not original, I kinda like the look of the spokes with the slots in them…. except the one on this car looks to be installed wrong.
The front wheels are straight, but the steering wheel appears to be turned 90 degrees to the right aside from the Pontiac emblem being in the correct orientation. Or is it a trick of the camera angle?
You beat me too it. Might be a Grant wheel- they seem to be the closest in style to the optional factory ‘wood’ wheel.
And cheaper too. I’ve thought about one for my Skylark, but the rivets in the wood spoil the looks for me.
I agree. I much prefer the Grant leather wheel. More expensive, but a NICE wheel.
It’s a sort-of-fake reproduction of the C2 Corvette steering wheel, with a (genuine or fake, don’t know) wood rim.
The spokes are a copy of the Corvette’s stock steering wheel spokes (I just checked the genuine wheel on the 1963 Corvette in my garage). But my stock plastic rim looks better than this “wood” with the rivets. Also the Pontiac horn button is not centered on the spokes the way it would be on a real one.
“Sadly, no hidden headlights were available as on big brother GTO”…
First I’ve heard of this option on a ’67 GTO!
I was thinking of the ’68 up GTO. The GP did have hidden headlights in ’67 though.
wow – do i know m blues or what? i’m impressed my recall and the accuracy of color is so exact on my monitor.
this car brings back so many great memories. same hubcaps too. also must be the 326.
i have a hallmark hanging ornament of this very car in this color, was it montreaux blue?
Beautiful color and car. I find it amazing that it is sitting in a wide open parking lot, top down, in the far away rows. I sure hope the owner has a great alarm system or has the car temporarily demilled to keep someone from driving off with it. It isn’t hard to hot wire. I would never leave it out of sight and would demobilize it which is what I do with my cars. How? My secret but you would need a flat bed to take them if I turned my back on them long enough.
Gorgeous find and love that aqua color! For me, the FB has always looked better than the Camaro.
Wow, I’ve never seen this color on a ’67 Firebird, it looks great. Growing up I had a neighbor with a first-year Camaro RS coupe in maroon with parchment interior. I liked the hidden headlights, but I always thought the Firebird’s quad front lamps looked better.
I think I’m the only one that just doesn’t get turned on by a 1st gen Firebird. They just don’t do it for me. The details are nice–I love the way the tails are faired in to those smooth rear corners–but the whole car leaves me somewhat cold. I guess it’s related to the fact that I don’t so much care for 1st-gen Camaros either (’69 RS/SS with hidden lamps excluded). The Firebird just doesn’t do much for me. Maybe I’ve been a Mustang admirer for too long?
I will compliment this one on a fine restoration job though, wonderful paint color, and having the nerve to drive it in today’s traffic!
(Oh, and Auto World does make a nice 1/64 of the ’69 Firebird. If you really want it, order the whole Premium release set. And see if you don’t end up liking the ’64 Country Squire or ’69 Kingswood far more!)
I’ve already got the Kingswood and Country Squire, as well as the ’76 Coupe de Ville and ’73 Challenger Rallye. In fact, I’ve skipped over the Firebird trying to find other models! Might have to pick one up now. 🙂
I got tired of trying to find individuals in stores (the only ones I ever found were the red Phoenix and the green Dart) and seeing the inflated ebay prices, and just bought both sets…actually got both color variations of the release with the wagons!
Nice find. Always liked the 1st gen the best.
I’ve always loved the first generation Camaro and the Firebird. I love the colour on this one. 🙂
On the subject of killing off Pontiac versus GMC or Buick or any of the other divisions of GM, one dimension that seems not to have been discussed is that GM was deep in the process of turning Cadillac into the performance division of GM, with significant sales and financial success. While the GTO and the G8 were recognized as performance cars, they were not successful at driving significant sales of Pontiacs. At the same time the CTS and multiple Cadillac V-series cars were successful in terms of higher profits and growing market share. And so in my view it was Cadillac’s success as a performance division that took both the position in the corporate hierarchy and the investment dollars required to build a superior performance car. I believe Cadillac’s products, image and sales success have proven it to have been a great choice by GM.
The Holden-GM “GTO” just looked like a fatter Cobalt. It had no presence at all on the street, though it was fast.
Interestingly, about the G8 – I was at my Chevy dealer getting my oil changed on Saturday, and a guy was trading his G8 in on a new car. I was listening to part of the conversation between he and the salesman and he remarked how he was always a Pontiac guy, and as soon as he heard Pontiac was being axed, he immediately went out and bought his G8. V8-equipped, of course!
What was he trading it in for? A Chevy SS, of course! His G8 had over 200K on the clock at that!
Speaking of 1967 Firebirds; saw this beautiful 400 convertible today. Although Hurst shifters were used in GTOs, I’m not sure what it means on this automatic Firebird. (Too early for the so-called “His and Hers”, I believe.)
Since this first appeared Ive seen a 400 locally LHD and what appears to be a steel top but looking like a soft top.
I wonder how many people ordered the fold-down rear seat for extra cargo space? If you wanted extra cargo space, I don’t think that a Firebird convertible would be the car for you!
I’m surprised I didn’t comment on this car the first time around.
That aqua blue wasn’t a rare color back then, but perhaps on a Firebird it was. I strongly approve!
The Firebird, being a notch above a Camaro, was a real looker, that trademark split grille setting it off. Although I wasn’t a big Poncho fan back then, I certainly was attracted to these and the GTO and really liked them, but in general, I was a fan of most everything GM in those days – they were the king of the hill. My, how the mighty have fallen – some, like Pontiac, terminally.
What I “dig”… is the VENT WINDOWS (also in ’67 Camaros).
WHY did the manufacturers eliminate them?? They were a GOOD thing!
GM phased them out in favor of interior ventilation coming from air registers in the dash. Chevy called it “Astro Ventilation” and it first appeared on some of their 1968 models. Eventually all makes went to this. There’s an air exhaust vent in the door pillar. I also like the old style vent windows.