(First Posted October 23, 2013) The phrase “Here come da judge” is a good indicator of a person’s age. If this phrase means nothing to you, then you are likely under the age of fifty. If you are over fifty, then you probably remember laughing out loud to the several black comedians who did this comedy bit on Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In. Or maybe you even heard the phrase as done by its originator, Pigmeat Markham, who is sometimes credited with creating the first rap record (decades before anybody knew what a rap record was). In any case, you probably remember this car from the time when it was just one of many hot American performance cars available at a dealership near you.
The Pontiac GTO is as much an automotive icon as there is. A while back, I found a 1966 GTO (here) and in its CC we covered a bit of the Goat’s famous background. While I had some doubts as to whether that particular car was genuine, I finally concluded that probably it is. In this case there are no doubts, for reasons we’ll explore later.
Though GTO sales topped out in 1966, many muscle car fans probably consider 1969 to be “Peak GTO” in terms of the car itself. For 1968, the GM A-body was all-new for the first time in four years, and it was a tremendous success in both style and sales volume. The General did indeed set styling trends in those days, and the ’68 A-bodies (especially the two- doors) suddenly made everyone else’s 1968 offerings look a bit stale–and few would disagree that Pontiac took that A-body package and came up with the prettiest version of them all. Even the lowest-trim model (like the 1969 Tempest featured here) had that special something that seemed to be in great abundance in Pontiac’s styling studios in the 1960s.
In 1969, there was no such thing as a slow GTO. Every one came off the line packing 400 cubic inches of V8 goodness. Just how much of that goodness you got depended on which version you chose. The basic engine was rated at 350 horsepower (SAE gross), while the higher output Ram Air III was advertised at 366. It you really wanted to fly, you could opt for the Ram Air IV, which was advertised at 370 ponies. Gee, you might say–that’s not much of a spread in power output. Recall, however, the General’s Fourteenth-Floor decree that Thou Shalt Not Equip a Car (at least one not named “Corvette”) with an Engine Putting out More than One Advertised Horsepower for every Ten Pounds of Curb Weight. The consensus out across the interwebs seems to indicate that the Ram Air III would put out close to 400 horsepower, and perhaps 420 ponies for a Ram Air IV.
One area where Pontiac got caught flat-footed was low-buck performance. The 1968 Plymouth Road Runner (and similar Dodge Super Bee) introduced the concept of maximum power for minimum dollars. That may not be the greatest formula for high profit, but it did sell a lot of cars for Mopar dealers, and the 1969 GTO Judge was Pontiac’s reaction. Priced roughly $300 above a base GTO, the Judge’s many standard HiPo features included the Ram Air III engine.
The Judge got a lot of promotion and carried quite a bit of street cred, but did not really sell that well, moving fewer than 7,000 units. A true Road Runner analogue would have been a Ram Air Tempest with a bench seat, but building a car like that was simply not in John DeLorean’s makeup. Every GTO would look like a GTO, right down to the Endura front bumper. You want a GTO? You’re gonna hafta pay for a GTO.
I was out running an errand late last Friday afternoon. Truth be told, I had missed lunch (I should learn to listen to the inner voice that says “Don’t take this telephone call just now”), and was in an irritable mood. It was nearing 3 o’clock, and I decided to pull into a drive-up for a quick burger to eat on the run. I saw the orange GTO and immediately started to grumble. I was hungry, dammit, and once you’ve seen one orange GTO, haven’t you really seen them all? Probably just another miserable LeMans after cosmetic surgery. Tribute cars – Bah!
But that same little voice that I had ignored when the telephone rang came back into my head, telling me to pull around and snap some pictures. I have caught a couple of GTOs in the wild, but never one of this generation. At least that was the voice of my rationalization. Well, the little voice was right.
What you see here is an original car. Original paint, original stone rash on the lower fenders, original rust peeking out of the molding on the lower edge of the deck lid. I was fairly well under this car’s spell, when about halfway through my photo snapping the owner and his young grandson came out of the restaurant. Only then did I get the truly fascinating story behind this car.
The owner (I am embarrassed to admit that I neglected to ask his name) was a very nice guy. He told me he’d bought this car in 1971, when he was a high school student, and has owned it ever since. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the real deal. The Genuine Article. So, you ask, just how does a high school kid with a Ram Air GTO keep it this nice through the “ordinary used car” years (let alone the “stupid high school kid” years)–and especially in salty Indiana? Simple: All you have to do is blow the engine up while doing the kind of things a high school boy will do with a car like this. After which an unusual decision was made–the GTO got parked, a disposable Chevy was bought, and life moved on.
Quite a few years later, the owner decided that the time had come to bring the old Goat out of storage. The engine was either replaced or rebuilt (I forgot to ask), and here we are. I have to say that I admire the owner of this car a lot. Not only did he make the unusual decision to park and keep the car all those years ago, but also the equally uncommon decision leave this rare old car alone. How hard must it be to avoid the temptation to get the perfect paint job and turn this car into a mega-dollar Barrett-Jackson-mobile that glitters under the overhead lights and can only be touched with cotton gloves? Perhaps he has listened to a little voice in his head too. If that’s the case, it has advised him well.
For my money (and of course, when it comes to this car, none of it is my money) this car, just as it sits, may be the rarest and most valuable GTO on the planet, not necessarily in monetary terms, but just for what it is. A car is only original once, and this one still is. How many other GTO owners can say that? Even its one concession to youthful customization–the wheels–are vintage and super cool.
Most of you know that a well-preserved original is my very favorite kind of car, no matter what it may be. We lovers of automotive time capsules are used to a certain number of trade-offs–unpopular colors, low option levels and things like column shifters and generic wheel covers are the kinds of things we get used to accepting as part of “the package”. But there are no trade-off’s with this GTO. It is the rare “Judge” package, one of 6,725 hardtops sold, according to Myclassicgarage.com.
It has Ram Air. And it is even orange. I mean ORANGE! Or Carousel Red (with Parchment Morrokide), if you are a purist. OK, so it lacks air conditioning and has an automatic and is not one of the 108 convertibles built, but how else to tell that I didn’t really dream this car instead of seeing it in person and chatting with its owner? Ferkryinoutloud, it is just like the car featured in the ad campaign–how much better could it really be? I mean, doesn’t everybody want the car featured in the advertising and the brochures? Well, this guy has it!
The brief encounter finished with me standing on the grass as the owner fired up his old friend. Even if nothing else about this chance meeting had yet improved my mood, the delightful sounds coming from this car did. There is nothing else quite like the sound of an old, carbureted, high-performance V8 that lets you know that it would rather be doing almost anything other than idling in a parking lot. As the car moved out onto the side street and its throttle plates opened up just a bit, that little voice came back: “Here come da judge, here come da judge; Lookout, everybody, here come da judge!”
+1: “This car, just as it sits, may be the rarest and most valuable GTO on the planet”
And CC is the LAST place I expect to come for a hip-hop lesson, but schooled I was, as I have always thought that The Sugar Hill Gang’s Rapper’s Delight was the first rap song.
You know what’s funny about the “Judge”? Back in the day, my buddy and I thought they were – to use a contemporary term – “posers”. Why, if it was already a GTO, you knew it was pretty fast, but to add the “Judge” badging? well, we scratched our heads and wondered, but they were sooooo cool, we didn’t care, we wanted one!
So many great cars back then: Chevelle SS 396, GTO, 4-4-2, GS, Shelby, Roadrunner, GTX, Charger and all the rest. The world will never see the likes of them again.
The example above is very nice, and I’d love to see it up close. Certainly a nice survivor!
You are correct with the “Here comes the Judge” slogan, which originated on “Laugh-In”, was recorded by Pigmeat Markham for the soul crowd, and by the Magistrates, which was a direct rip-off of the Laugh-In show. Other than the slogan, both songs pretty much stunk up the airwaves!
Interestingly, some regard 1970’s “Gimme Dat Ding” by Pipkins as one of the first rap songs. I don’t know about that, but you can’t beat that wicked-good honky-tonk piano playing!
“You know what’s funny about the “Judge”? Back in the day, my buddy and I thought they were – to use a contemporary term – “posers”
We did too, I really don’t know why. The only guy I knew who had one was… well, let’s just say he probably drives a BMW now, none of us liked him or his “Judge” and no, we weren’t jealous, the car just seemed pretentious
“Gimme Dat Ding” had an assumed Laugh-In connection too – everybody thought (correctly or not, I don’t know) that the muttering voice in the background was Henry Gibson doing his Laugh-In dirty old man routine.
One more tidbit – half of the songwriting team for Gimme Dat Ding was Albert Hammond, a prolific songwriter responsible for “Down by the River” and “It never rains in Southern California.”
“THE JUDGE”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the”Judge”?????????????
IIRC: ” “Here come da judge, here come da judge; Order in the courtroom, here come da judge!”
You just can’t beat the styling of the 1968-69 Pontiac A bodies. Some builders get it right on the outside, others do the interior right, but these cars had it all. The Carousel Red suits its lines and its intended buyers, too. I’ve heard that Pontiac just appropriated Chevy’s Hugger Orange for this car.
I really like how this generation of A Bodies maintained a tall, airy greenhouse
while still looking very sleek, masculine and stylish. Too many vehicles today, with
mail slot glass areas look too brutish in this regard IMO. And the muscle cars then had loud, confident anti-establishment paint schemes… not loud colours (or chrome wrap) so others would primarily notice the car owner. : )
The interior does look higher quality than the Chrysler E Bodies.
Thank you for this excellent story and photos JPC. The owner deserves a great deal of credit for preserving it this long in original condition. Amazing commitment and discipline to maintaining a beautiful car and resisting a full restoration. Prior to the mini vans, it was rare when GM introduced a model in response to the success of a Chrysler product. Nice that “The Judge” was immortalized in “Two Lane Blacktop”.
Terrific catch! Seeing an original beats seeing three restored examples any day of the week.
The owner is quite fortunate to have family that allowed him to store it instead of scrapping it or selling it; also, it appears he had a good place to store it where it was mostly protected from the weather.
May it enjoy it for a very long time.
+1
Good to see that there’s at least one such car still living and surviving as it has. Not nearly enough of those kind of stories left to tell these days!
“In 1969, there was no such thing as a slow GTO. Every one came off the line packing 400 cubic inches of V8 goodness” – well, true, but you could say the same thing about the ’67 and ’68 models.
At the time (and ever since), I thought the Judge was ridiculous overkill, especially when it got the 455 engine the next year. In general I’d rather have a ’68 than a ’69, given the choice. The ’68 dashboard, with or without factory air, is much nicer than that of the ’69. Also, I like vent windows.
(We had a ’67 GTO in the family for about 7 years – THM400 column shift, no console, 400 4-bbl., a/c & positraction. I remember the gosh-wow feeling when I first saw a ’68; suddenly our car looked ancient. Those ’67s tended to rust relatively quickly – did rust protection improve in the new design?)
The Ram Air III and IV 400s could spank a 455 every time.
The 455 was intended to be a mild mannered torquer for luxury minded buyers who liked the look of a muscle car, yet still wanted AC, auto and power options, and didn’t need tuning too often.
I don’t know where you Pontiac know it alls get that shit about the 455, I had two 455ho 1970 GTO,s and they didn’t have alot of money in them and didn’t have a problem beating anything out there, and I do mean anything, 455ho from 1970 is the only way to fly in a Pontiac other than the 421sd or the 455sd. This is what you heard growing up, this is what I know, i owned and raced them, that’s a FACT not hear say.
Also, didn’t the ’69 still offer the low-compression 400 with two-barrel carburetor and something like 265 gross horsepower?
“GUILTY!
OF CC PERFECTION!
I HEARBY ORDER YOU TO REMAIN GREEN WITH ENVY FOR AN ENTIRE DAY!”
It is a Grandpa car!
I love this. How cool that the owner is actually enjoying the car and exposing his grandson to a real GTO. I love cars in this condition. I even like the period-correct wheels. All the garage-queen owners don’t know what they are missing.
A real one beats any number of fakes gorgeous car
What a find, JP! I agree with Daniel, the owner really deserves a tip of the hat to owning this original Judge, through the early OPEC years of odd/even gas rationing up to today with gas being 3 to 4 dollars per gallon.
This is THE car that rumbled up my home street every weekday in ’69 at about 4:30 pm. My buddies on their Sears Screamers and I on my bright flourescent orange Dragstripper muscle bike, we’d just stop what we were doing and watch it idle on by in second gear. No spoken words, just staring at the latest and greatest muscle car to come from Detroit, now here, on our street, in the flesh! If you were an American kid growing up during this time, the rumble hooked you, or the bright Carousel Red paint with the psychedelic stripes or that wing on the rear. It could have been that beaked Endura bumper or the hidden head lights in that blackened hole of a grill. To find a real, live one, in 2013 along with what is essentially the original owner is just a rare find indeed. I’m sure it turned JP’s day around just as it made mine reading it here.
Rowan and Martin’s Laugh In started the phrase with special guest Sammy Davis, Jr sing-songing “The court’s in session and here comes da Judge…..here comes da Judge.” Then the Rowan and Martin go go girls would go into some simple song off that riff “Here comes the Judge, Here comes the Judge now”. Funny how I can remember this silly stuff and then turn around and forget where I misplaced my car keys!
Maybe Junqueboi or Carmine or another astute GM-Phile can correct me…..but it seems in this age of Barret Jackson and high dollar auto speculators, I seem to have noticed 69 GTO Judges up for aucttion in shades other then Carousel Red. Look anywhere these days and there are Judges in Verdoro Green or Black or Warwick Blue (nice combo!) or Red or Pale Yellow. Some really strange colors. For me, the real visual impact of that car will always be Carousel Red. As a young muscle car nut who paid attention to these cars, I never recalled seeing a 69 Judge anywhere not wearing the fabled Carousel Red. It seems these odd ball colors have popped out of the woodwork in this big money era.
I believe we have a priest in town who is the original owner of a 69 Goat, Verdoro Green with green vinyl top. It too is his daily driver, but the NJ elements and salt have taken a toll on her side flanks. And anytime I see her, my attentions are directed to that Goat. it always takes me back to those days in ’69 with that Judge…..
In the reading I did about these, I came to the understanding that at first, Carousel Red was the only color offered. It appears that later in the year, other colors were offered as well. But it seems to me that if you want a REAL Judge, it just has to be this color.
The piece was getting long and I didn’t mention that my next door neighbor’s mom traded her tan 66 GTO on a dark green 68 GTO, again with the 4 speed. I got several rides in the back of that one, and heard it fire up and head down the street innumerable times. I remember seeing ads for these, but never had any firsthand experience with one. I recall expecting to see these everywhere, and when they fizzled, I was left a little confused about just what was supposed to have been so special about The Judge. This car made me dive into GTO arcania and get a decent handle on what the fuss was about.
When I first saw it, I had no idea how special this one was. Some pictures sit in my computer for eons waiting for inspiration to strike. This car got written up immediately!
Verdoro Green — a gorgeous 1968 color!
These cars were also available in a dark blue which looked pretty good, although that may have been 1970. I recall the green ones as well. I don’t know if there were any other colors available. GTOs weren’t all that common in Canada even after the auto pact deal made US style Pontiacs available here.
We had a neighbor who bought a seriously fast GTO, I don’t think it was a Judge. It was a ’69 with the Ram Air III engine. It was really quick and it sounded great. Only thing wrong with it was it was Avacado green! I thought it was about the worst color available, and was shocked when he told me he had ordered it that color. I just assumed he had bought it off the lot. I really liked the Dark blue GTO. The green GTO lasted about 4 years and he replaced it with a red 455 Trans Am, and last I looked, he still has that car!
If I recall correctly, Pontiac wanted to use the “Here come da judge” line in its ads for the car, but it had been copyrighted! I still remember watching Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In (the number-one rated show for a few years in the late 1960s) with my parents. I’ve always associated this line with Sammy Davis, Jr., who was a regular guest star on the show.
I did a little more checking, it appears that Sammy Davis Jr. was the first to the Here Come da Judge routine as a guest star on Laugh-in which first brought it to the attention of white audiences. Pigmeat Markham had been doing the routine for years. After Davis, Pigmeat appeared on Laugh-in for one season. In 1968, At the age of 64, he recorded the record that I linked to at the beginning of the piece, and it hit no. 19 on the Billboard charts. He was a real old-time burlesque and vaudeville performer from what they called the chitlin circuit.
I think other guest stars did the Judge bit on Laugh-in as well.
Here’s Sammy on YouTube.
Wikipedia says Flip Wilson introduced the “Here come de judge” sketch, then Pigmeat Markham himself did it on the show for a season. But I can’t find video or even photos on the web of either of them in the robes. Later Sammy Davis Jr. turned it into his own little bit as you see. Any Laugh-In experts out there to corroborate any of our recollections?
PS: Another super-CC JP, thanks!
Gotta go to Youtube and here the Pipkins and Daddy dew Drop nw, Chick a Boom, Don’t ya just Love It…
Great article on a great car. The owner should be commended for keeping his car in original condition.
There is a commercial for the 1969 GTO Judge featuring Paul Revere and the Raiders singing a song specifically written for the Judge. It’s on youtube…Jim Wangers has called it the first music video, although a lot of historians credit the Monkees with inventing that format.
Sorry, go back further. Admittedly they were shot on film (video tape was still a bit more difficult to use back then), but the Beatles did videos in exactly what was the format we all got used to on MTV for “Penny Lane” and “Strawberry Fields Forever”. Dated 1966, I believe those were the first videos.
The Monkees premiered in the fall of 1966, so if the Beatles videos were also made in that year, it is a very close call.
The video for “Rain,” an older song than the others mentioned…
(An excuse to enjoy a great song on a gray day here. 🙂 )
As I understand it, the Beatles made those promotional films so they could “perform” on TV shows without having to go through all the travel and drudgery involved in making the rounds of TV shows for personal appearances. I’m not sure if other artists in the era did likewise, or if this was something only the Beatles could get away with doing (because they were, you know, the Beatles). If the latter, they probably started doing this around the time they stopped touring, which was in 1966.
Nice find, well done JPC and kudos to the owner for keeping and driving it.
One detail that made me smile is the locking nut on the chrome rims. Maybe a good idea 30 years ago, but today it’s not too likely that someone would take the rims and leave the rest of the car 😉
I like this car a lot. Back when cars like this were at the bottom of their price curve, this is exactly the way they looked and the condition most were in. No one wanted them except us gearheads and we used them for what they were for, drag racing on Sunday and street racing whenever. Back then matching numbers meant you were bracket racing, not worrying about correct date coded hose clamps and so on. Stone chips, a little rust and aftermarket 5 spoke chromies were all standard issue.
Kudos to the owner for preserving this one the way it is and driving it, not spending 40 or 50k on a full restoration and then being terrified to drive it. Nice find!
JPC is two-thirds of the way to winning the CC Triple Crown. The first was the Marmon 16 (true classic category); this Judge is the second (muscle-car category). Now he needs to find a daily-driver Gutbrod Superior for the import class.
Regarding the line “there was no slow GTO”. Unfortunately, there was. In 1968, a bright red ’68 GTO showed up every day at the Loyola High parking lot. Wow! It took a while, but eventually we got him to drive a couple of us car-less ones into Towson via long, straight, and uphill Chestnut Avenue. Full-throttle, of course. Except that it didn’t feel at all like full throttle. Pathetic; it had no growl, no grunt, and no top-end.
Turns out his dad did the smart thing and ordered the kid’s Goat with the delete-option 265 hp two-barrel low-compression 400, which really was listed as an option, presumably just for this kind of scenario.
The 2-barrel GTO was the period equivalent to the 2-wheel drive SUV of recent memory. Muscle cars were trendy and many buyers liked the look but balked at temperamental, highly tuned gas guzzling engines.
I agree somewhat, but the base 4-barrel high-compression engines in all of these cars were hardly temperamental and highly-tuned. They were the exact same as had/were being used in GPs, Bonnevilles, and millions of other full-sized cars of the times by their respective divisions.
I rather think the 2-barrel option existed precisely why this kid had it: to reduce insurance cost and risk for the daddies that bought them for their kids. The high-school delete option engine.
Gutbrod Superior? Why didn’t you say so. I have shots of five different ones, the streets of Indianapolis are crawling with them. 🙂
Actually, no. But my plan is to get the car’s name in print here a couple of times and then let the CC Effect do its work for me. I will no doubt see one in the grocery store parking lot on the way home.
Needless to say, the Judge was quite a cultural phenomena when it appeared. I did have some difficulty in making sense of it (as if that were relevant), given that the ’68-69 GTO was already the coolest (and best looking) muscle car at the time. I kept wondering why Pontiac felt the need to make the Judge, and just how it fit into the GTO line-up. It seemed to be part of this rapidly escalating war for everyone in the category to outdo each other with bolder psychedelic graphics and such. Which is exactly what happened.
It’s hard to explain how much everything was changing back then, year-by-year. In 1966, muscle cars were still pretty staid and reserved. By 1969, it was an explosion of new models with wild paint, spoilers, graphics, etc; very analogue to the music and pop culture of the times, or perhaps trying to keep up as fast as possible.
I think Pontiac recognized in that era that the youth market had a very short memory and it would take work to remain “the hot thing” to younger buyers. With shared bodies and various fairly strict GM policies about engines and engine size (the corporation wasn’t about to let Pontiac put something like a DOHC 428 into regular production), a lot of Pontiac’s image relied on gimmicks. They were good at gimmicks, at least until DeLorean and Wangers were gone, but while the competition hadn’t been able to unseat the GTO from the king of the cool cars throne, Pontiac was starting to be flanked in various ways. A Road Runner was cheaper, a Coronet R/T with the 440 was probably quicker (at least in stock form), and the SS396 had the whole weight of Chevrolet’s dealer body and sales organization behind it. So, Pontiac kept ladling on the stunts, the Judge being an obvious example.
there are still a few originals rolling around. Here’s my ’68. (not in anywhere near as nice shape as that Judge though).
I’m in the camp of preferring the 68 over the 69 as well. Cleaner rear bumper, vent windows, better dash and less flash. Classier overall. To that end the Judge package was way too over the top for me. Always wanted to drive the 4 speed with ram air though….
Nice. I prefer the ’68 to the ’69 for many reasons also. I’d like to own a ’68 in any shade of green, blue, or maroon with floor-shift and these wheelcovers in a condition similar to yours. It and the ’73 are my favorite GTOs.
What kind of options does your car have?
Mine? It’s an April Gold convertible with matching green interior, black top. 400 4 barrel, manual trans. Rallye wheels, hood tach, concealed headlights. 4.11 rear. Clock and remote mirror pretty much round out the options…
here’s her twin in MUCH better condition (but with the black interior…)
Very nice. A friend of mine has an April Gold ’68 LeMans with white painted top. It’s one of those elegant high-class colors (until it fades!) His car had the goldish interior I think.
Am I the only one who prefers the 1970? I must have watched Two Lane Blacktop one too many times as a child 😛
Here’s the YouTube link to the Paul Revere & the Raiders’ Judge commerical:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vrc2b5qtLk
It’s a very cool song. It reminds my of “Jaguar” by the Who (recorded during sessiosn for the Who Sell Out album but not released until the ’90s)
I was about 7 @ the time this car & i loved reading my big brother’s car magazines & my favorite sport was auto racing. I loved watching ABC’s Wide World of Sports if it had anything to do w/auto racing, even the demo derbys from Islip, L.I.Even though I know that cars these days are better engineered & made, they just don’t grab me like cars like this one does.
I also remember “Laugh-In” & “Here Comes Da Judge”
Nice. The first record I ever bought was “Little GTO” by Ronnie and the Daytonas. (On YouTube with GTO photos)
> There is a commercial for the 1969 GTO Judge featuring Paul Revere and the Raiders singing a song specifically written for the Judge.
The lyrics may have been written specifically for the Judge, but they were just new lyrics for an existing Paul Revere and the Raiders song, “Time After Time”. The instrumental track is identical. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jub1LGE22ew )
The last five seconds of the ad is the standard 1969 Pontiac jingle “Breakaway”, which was composed by jingle writer extraordinaire Steve Karmen and specifically made for the commercials. However, the jingle was appealing enough that it was expanded into a real song, with (awesome) vocals by Jimmy Radcliffe. That record eventually became a UK “Northern Soul” hit. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzX4isz2qWo )
Really, re: The Who’s “Jaguar” being a lost track? One of my favorite songs on a killer album.
Although The Who Sell Out is also my fave rave Who album, “Jaguar” didn’t appear on an official Who release until the 1994 box set & the 1995 expanded version of Sell Out. Before then it was a bootleg track.
Nice car, I agree he’s lucky to (still) have it. A minor carb fire saved one of my Chryslers from a sad fate in the hands of a young driver.
Last weekend I was at a car show where there was a blue convertible in GTO Judge guise. I knew they were rare, but my kids were with me and there was lots to see, so I didn’t stop to investigate if it was the real deal, or guilty of being a clone.
A kid across the hall in my dorm had one of these – in IIRC it was lime green — during the 80/81 school year. Since he was a couple years older and no one really needed to drive much anyway, I remember it mostly from the time he corralled a bunch of us to help him bump start it in the parking lot. We all bundled up and went out to help; it was probably about 10 below. (This was way upstate NY, near the Canadian border.) I don’t think we actually got it started – not much traction on a snow-covered parking lot, and not much incentive for gasoline to explode at 10 below!
Nice old GTO and nice to see it still being used. I don’t like the over restored muscle cars that are so common today, especially those that are built WAY better than they ever were new. That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to the owner giving this car a repaint. I may be in the minority here, but if the original paint is decent with only a few flaws, I’d agree to keep it as such. But this car has a number of significant body flaws in my opinion, and it will only be a matter of time before it gets worse or begins to rust. Maybe some of you in the nice warm dry climates don’t see that, but around here I swear if you look at a car from this era the wrong way it will rust on you. It no longer has the original engine, he hacked the kick panels for aftermarket speakers, why not refresh the exterior to make this car a real knock out?
I know what you’re saying about over-restored cars, but I also wouldn’t mind a classic like this with fresh paint and also upgraded brakes, suspension, and other bits to make it a better driver. So long as it kept the original look and didn’t end up a resto-mod.
The show car stuff like perfect panel gaps, flawless paint, and reproduced inspection marks, that I think is ridiculous.
How is “upgraded brakes, suspension, and other bits to make it a better driver” not a resto-mod? If you MODify (or MODernize if you prefer) the car with parts not available when originally built, it is a resto-mod. If you counter that it doesn’t have a crate motor and big alloy wheels, you’re just arguing degrees of modification.
To me this is no different from bringing a house “up to code” (electrical, gas, etc.) in the course of other repairs. If I wanted a ’60s Pontiac in which I’d feel safe driving in modern traffic, I would certainly choose modern brakes, radials, etc. – even non-sealed-beam headlamps if they would give good results. The 1969 GTO’s only passive safety feature is the collapsible steering column introduced for 1967 across all GM cars, and perhaps side door beams, which I know the ’69 full-size GM cars received (I don’t count the shoulder belts of the era, which typically remained stored above the front windows). So I would want every active, crash-avoiding safety feature I could manage.
Well I see enough overrestored “numbers matching” cars wearing Radial TAs to say that some liberties are indeed accepted. Engine rebuilds are another place since if the cylinders need to be bored or journals need to be machined, the pistons and bearings aren’t numbers matching anymore are they? Or how about brake pads? Or fluids? Or Paint used(primers, chemicals, ect) Or…or…
Degrees of modification = degrees of originality
Personally I’d keep 100% the outward appearance and find out the best bolt ins to interchange parts with. EG if you can find a car with bigger discs or brake drums that are a direct swap, use those in place of the stockers, same with suspension components or whatever (HD equipped Collonades would probably be a good source for parts I imagine). That’s not exactly turning it into a pro tourer, in fact with changes like that the only people who would ever be able to tell would need their little part number reference books.
With this car, I’d probably just paint it and keep it otherwise stock. I might upgrade to front discs if it has drums for safety sake, but I’d use the original disc brake setup for this car.
For my car, it is an original car, but it has a lot of miles on it. So parts are wearing out. I rebuilt the entire suspension and steering. I am not going to compromise safety for the sake of originality – I drive my cars. Plus, I am a stickler for my machines to be in top notch order, even my old beaters were probably better maintained than the average joe’s car. I have done a few minor upgrades to my car, including modern mono-tube gas shocks, stiffer springs and upgraded sway bar size. My stock brakes are strong. However, unless someone got under my car and measured the spring wire diameter or the sway bar diameter, it appears 100% stock (other than the modern looking shocks) while it performs how I want it to perform. I have also upgraded my original radio to be able to connect to an MP3 player – it looks 100% original, but functions the way I want. Isn’t that what having an old car is about – enjoying it?
When someone starts adding modern EFI, oversized modern 4-wheel discs, large diameter low profile wheels. These are the kind of things that makes the car appear obviously non-stock, then yes these is resto-modding. And that may not be my taste, but if it keeps another old car on the road, I won’t lose any sleep over it.
I’m pretty much with you Bill. I like originality, with a few upgrades. Discs are always a good idea, but if they were available originally, use original parts etc. Not a resto-mod lover.
and no, I’m NOT posting too quickly…..
Like the Ford Fairlane Cobra, the GTO Judge was originally conceived as a low-budget competitor to the Road Runner, but Delorean decided to go the other way and take it upmarket. Curiously, a base Judge came with plain Rally II wheels sans trim rings. It’s quite cool that the feature car has original ‘Rocket’ mags, too. He must have kept those stored well over all these years because those original mags from the sixties had a bad habit of the chrome flaking and rusting.
As to “In 1969, there was no such thing as a slow GTO”, in actuality, the only thing that kept the GTO from being on the bottom rung of the musclecar hierarchy (at least on the dragstrip) was the Ford 390. The GTO’s success can be attributed to two things: if not technically the first musclecar, it was the first well-packaged musclecar, and ad guru Jim Wangers hit all the right buttons at the right time with his marketing campaign for Pontiac. Only the Plymouth Road Runner came close to beating it in that department.
Likewise, the statement “Every GTO would look like a GTO, right down to the Endura front bumper” is not entirely accurate, either. It was possible to reduce the price of a GTO by deleting the Endura bumper and opting for the standard, chrome, Tempest ‘loop’ bumper. There were a few GTOs built in just that manner.
Speaking of Chrysler, although GM was still the mainstream styling leader at the time, 1968 also brought the restyled Dodge Charger and Plymouth GTX, the former of which is regarded by many to be the high-point of domestic styling (certainly within Chrysler). Nevertheless, GM and Chrysler both handily trumped the dowdy ’68 Fairlane in the intermediate class.
Not to pile-on Ford, but for one of the slowest, least exciting styled musclecars of the era, it would be hard to beat a ’68 Torino hardtop with a 390 engine and C4 transmission. At least Ford made up for it the next year when the 428 CobraJet became available.
“It was possible to reduce the price of a GTO by deleting the Endura bumper and opting for the standard, chrome, Tempest ‘loop’ bumper. There were a few GTOs built in just that manner.”
I’ve seen one or two myself over the years, but those were ’68s only. The ’69 chrome loop bumpers had a vertically longer nose and would have looked awful on a GTO; I don’t believe any ’69 GTO was built that way.
The standard GTO motor was hardly the worst one in the industry save the Ford 390. All 400-ish/350 hp motors were about equal, although the 1968-69 4-4-2 with an automatic was about as bad as the Ford.
However, the 428 CJ came out for the Torino in 1968, not 1969.
Didn’t those 8&9 442s have a long-stroke 400? A bit doggy if I recall.
A legendary car and name, also on my side of the pond.
I’ve got an orange Pontiac GTO, it’s in an excellent condition.
(1:18 by GMP)
I’ve got a Liberty Blue Judge by Ertl. Would love to add a GMP 70 or 71 to my collection one day, but damn they’re pricey!
Love it and love the color names.
Old muscle cars always bring back the memories for me. Back when this car would have been brand-new, I saw a nearly identical car when I was on a road trip with my family. We were in the southwest part of Washington State, headed for the Oregon coast in a very out-of-the-way rural area filled with old barns that had old, faded advertisings on them. All of a sudden, we see this Carousel Red Judge coming in the opposite direction, going across a small, narrow bridge. It was absolutely spotless, and really stood out against the rural backdrop. That car was in my field of vison for less than a minute, but it created such a vivid impression! It was so garish and outlandish, like a full-sized Hot Wheels car. I was amazed that a grown-up would actually drive such a beast, and I was more than a bit envious, since my Hot Wheels were all 1/43 scale.
I like the looks of that GTO. I also like how the guy drives it around(it maybe or may not be his daily driver but it is still driven) I hate trailer/garage queens. I hate going to a car show and seeing how folks trailer in a classic car(especially if the car show is only a few miles away from their house.) and that the only time the car is driven is from the garage to the trailer and from the trailer onto the grass at the car show and then back on the trailer etc. A car should be driven. That said I am not against the restoration/upgrading of a car ether.(especially if it is to be driven daily or a lot). In my case the first thing I would do to a classic car would be to upgrade brakes in the front to disc from drums(if they still had them). Drum brakes suck @$$ especially non power assisted ones.
Was not expecting this to be an original and my surprise upon reading the article must have been the same as yours when you found the car. The article checks off all the boxes for me, a perfect CC post in every way. Thanks JPC.
I HATE stupid aftermarket wheels. Dumbass mistake. Rally II wheels are the only wheels that should be on this vintage. Love the car; it was my favorite in my pre-teen years. HATE the wheels. I’ve never understood the principle behind screwing up a car, any car, with aftermarket wheels. Original wheels are designed by the engineers (a term used loosely at GM, by the way) and FIT the car and give it its handling attributes. Dumb (and usually dumb-looking) aftermarket wheels screw all that up. Ugly and ill-handling cars are the result. Wait…I think my 2006 Civic needs some 26’s on it…be back shortly.
Well considering Rally IIs were steel and Cragar SSs were aluminum, there’s some prevailing wisdom with it. OEMs didn’t really get into making factory aluminum wheels until the 70s(Pontiac’s honeycomb comes to mind) so the aftermarket thrived in the 60s by offering upgrade options like these. Losing unsprung weight is very a good thing.
I agree with your sentiment in general, mostly regarding today’s oversized rubber bands being applied. But handling attributes? Designed by engineers? On a 69 A-body? Ah HAHAHA
Yeah, I had a bit of a chuckle at that as well. Anyone who was actually around when these types of cars were every day drivers will recall just how many got wheels and tire like this, usually by the second or third owner. The OEM tires and wheels of the day were “engineered” to fit the car and be as inexpensive to the manufacturer as possible. They were generally miserable, and quite often unsafe due to inadequate load ratings.
Rocket wasn’t the best aftermarket wheel, their main attraction was low price. Radial T/A s were the tire to run back then though. I do hope those ones aren’t decades old though. They may not be original but they are certainly period correct.
A lot of younger guys don’t seem to remember or weren’t old enough to experience the “joy” of hubcaps/trim rings flying off when a car with the factory wheels was cornered hard. I lost one of the rings on my ’72 Cutlass once, and before I could get back to where it had rolled to, it got squished by someone who was behind me. A trip to the junkyard got me a new one and a spare, which I needed the following winter. A good demo of this can be seen by watching the “Bullitt” car chase, the Charger loses more of them than it had in the first place..
Also, the few factory efforts at genuine alloy wheels in the ’60s didn’t work out so well — they made a pretty strong argument for styled steel wheels in terms of sturdiness.
Chrysler’s experience with that was the 1969 Kelsey Hayes “recall wheels”. I think the real problem with those was people tended to over-tighten the lug nuts, which steel wheels can handle but aluminum wheels cannot.
http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2007/05/01/hmn_feature27.html
Hard to believe the CC effect works on cars with these low production volumes, but sure enough-
Driving down Narbonne at lunchtime today, I spotted a yellow 1970 GTO Judge in front of me. It was clearly restored, so it may have been a dreaded clone. Still, what are the odds, on a Wednesday afternoon at 12:30 PM?
I was headed to the speed shop, so I thought we might have a common destination (reducing the odds, if you will), but he turned off at the Lomita Post Office. I would have shared a picture, but of course my camera was in the other car.
I saw this picture of a 1969 Tempest/LeMans wagon converted into a GTO wagon http://www.flickr.com/photos/64580734@N08/8606500551/#DiscussPhoto
It’s just too bad then Pontiac didn’t put the Endura option for all 1968-69-70 models like they did for the 1971-72 models. The Tempest/LeMans 4-door sedan and wagon would had gained some “pizzazz” like this model http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/rebuild455jh99.html Imagine what if a 1968-69 LeMans/Tempest wagon was available with the optionnal Endura front? 😉 Lots of GTO fans seems to create some cool “phantom” wagons.
That flicker link, if you take the time to page through his photos, has some series classic muscle pics, not to mention an expansive collection of CCs in general. Everyone should take some time and look at these
It’s funny how long I’ve been staring at these photos. I was frankly sick to death of Carousel Red GTO Judges by the time I was 10. It was THE prototypical muscle car depicted by car books, toy car makers and was really a common sight at any big car show– I remember one I went to where there was a row of twenty of them, 15-20 in all, all Carousel Red, all Judges, some with hidden headlights, some exposed but otherwise identical, and all 11 out of 10 condition wise. It was a sight to behold, but man, I was underwhelmed by them from then on. These cars have practically been in my blind spot ever since, right next to Blue/White striped 427 Shelby Cobra replicas, until I saw the clue last night that is.
The second I saw the color and the corner of the decal I knew exactly what it was(as did everyone else lol) but I have never, ever seen one in that condition before. I thought maybe it was going to be a LeMans to GTO Judge clone in progress, wearing a factory spoiler sourced from a swap meet at best. Now knowing it’s an actual Judge, with real patina, wearing not Rally IIs and wide O ovals but period mags and radials, I can’t look away. This is a survivor. Not a car covered in a bubble wrapped vacuum chamber for 30 years. Huge kudos to the owner! I haven’t stared at a 69 Judge this long since I was 8.
Here one more GTO to enjoy, Prickford’s 1970 GTO from the movie “Dazed and Confused”. http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_26097-Pontiac-GTO-1970.html
I could imagine a Carousel Red GTO Judge coming slowly down the street with Aerosmith’s song “Sweet Emotions” playing in my head. 😉
There was some nice Detroit iron used in that movie. The vinyl top on The Judge drove me nuts though, despite my love for Orbit Orange.
How refreshing to see the real McCoy and not a “tribute”.Nice to see one without the “eyebrows” over the wheel arches,they came in a clashing colour.
The “eyebrow” decals simply emphasized the sheetmetal protrusions introduced as part of the 1970-72 facelift of the 1968-69 design. I don’t think any ’69 Judge had them.
I was about to say, that’s 70/71 only. The colors clashing reallydepends on whatever the main color is. I don’t think the 69 stripe goes well with all available colors either. I think there’s some stunning 70/71 Combos.
My mistake the revolver is on the table in the study.I think I could put up with the eyebrows on a GTO if it were mine
I’m in the minority, but I’ve never much liked the ’68–’69 A-bodies and I think the Oldsmobile iteration pulls it off a little better than the Pontiac (except perhaps for the nose). Stylistically, I find the ’66–’67 cars like the other day’s Buick Gran Sport much superior.
I’m with you with the 66/67 cars. The 68/69 GTO has a good looking nose but the rest of the body is kind of meh for me. I like the 70 restyle with the additional sculpting much much more.
In the summer of 1969 I was car shopping for my first new car. I had saved most of the money I had earned from summer jobs and part time jobs during high school. One of the cars I test drove was a 1969 GTO convertible. The dealer had discounted the car because the new (1970) models were soon to arrive and he wanted to clear out his inventory. I can’t remember all the options on this car but one I do remember was the limited slip rear end. Why do I remember that but I can’t remember the body color. My high school buddy’s mom had a 1966 GTO (4bbl, auto, Hurst slap shifter, console…etc.) that she would let my buddy drive on weekends. And sometimes he would let me drive it. One of our favorite stunts was to slowly approach the entrance ramp to the Clearview Expressway (Queens NY) and when there was an opening in the traffic flooring the gas pedal. The engine would let out an enormous howl accompanied by the laying down of two black tire lines. It was exhilarating ! When I tried doing that in the ’69 GTO convertible not much happened. It did move fast but all the sounds and smells I came to associate with GTO’s were not there. So I kept looking for something else.
I’m not into bursting any bubbles here but it’s pretty obvious this ’69 in a cloned Judge. Quite a few tell tale signs. You really think G.M. put side stripes on them that crooked? Or the front fender Judge decals mounted that high, the black, non body color hood tachometer and a painted/stenciled “Ram Air” logo on the hood scoop instead of the factory decals. It’s an early production GTO since it came with the lower rear 1/4 panel stainless trim that GM deleted shortly after production started yet it somehow wears the glove box Judge emblem which didn’t show up until later in the model year. If there were more pictures I’m sure we’d see a lot more clues.
But, hey I’ve no problem with someone making a car into their own, just don’t try to pass it off as the real thing. Thankfully, Pontiac fans can rely on Pontiac Historical Society documentation.
I disagree, Carousel Red was a Judge only color, and if it were a replica why would the hood tach be black then? Shouldn’t it have been painted during the replication? Not all Judges came with hood tachs so it was probably added at some point.
I wouldn’t use the exhaust as any kind of Judgment(pun) either. This car has clearly been modified going by the rake and the wheels and chances are the exhaust too has been altered
Improper parts does not necessarily mean a clone was built. And improper replicas are all around us. I do think Carlos has a point, though.
However, there are plenty of special-order GTOs out there painted Carousel Red. It’s rare but not unheard of, but how do you know this is the original color without a data plate photo?
“You really think G.M. put side stripes on them that crooked? . . . . ”
Hahahahahaaaaahh! Yes, no car ever came off a 1960s Detroit assembly line in a way that was even a little bit off from the bibles that the purists have assembled so that cars like these can be restored precisely to the specs that existed only in the heads of the engineers and stylists. Heavens no, it would be impossible that some guy pulled onto a line because the regular decal-applyer was off deer hunting on a Friday morning might have gotten the placement wrong.
And of course no car ever sat in a dealership and had anything done with it because maybe it was not selling as quickly as it could. And no original owner never bought an accessory or made an update to his car because it came without some feature he liked.
One of the reasons I hate over-restored cars is because of the boring sameness of them. Production cars have much sameness, but we have all experienced that car with the little oddity, or the detail that shouldn’t be that way. Only after the restorers do all of the research on how the cars *were supposed to be built* have their reference works been assembled. Back then there were huge variations in assembly quality, even on a given model from a given plant.
I have seen lots of cars that have been screwed with and lots of owners who don’t know their cars at all. This guy said nothing that made me question his retelling of the car’s history. He didn’t build it, didn’t buy it new, but has owned it since it was about 2 years old. He owns a real GTO Judge, not shrine for Pontiac Perfection.
Agree with you JP. As a teenager in the mid 60s, I worked as a “tier 2” mechanic in a Cadillac/Oldsmobile dealer. The stories I could tell about the conditions of the new cars coming off the trucks in the back lot! Crooked stripes were the least of it!
It’s so cool, when those cars aren’t “overrestored”. I’d ever prefer such a condition before a restored one. Those cars could tell stories!
Great story and photos. I hope you eventually got your hamburger!
One thing about this car – the taillights. At first glance they have more than a passing resemblance to an early 70s Buick, perhaps a Century. I know I’ve seen them before. I know Pont and Buick were close relatives. It just made my thing that I wondered why Pontiac didn’t use a more Pontiac-y taillight for these. The 68 Firebird offered a look that would have worked, and was not dissimilar to this appearance.
This remains one of my favorite finds of all time, both for the car itself and for the story behind it. I have often wondered what ever became of this one. I do not recall seeing it since.
Someone mentioned that if there was a car that exemplifies the typical sixties musclecar, the 1969 GTO Judge would be it. Frankly, I can’t say I disagree with that sentiment. It’s somewhat ironic, though, as 1969 would be the first year that the GTO was dethroned as the number one selling musclecar, dropping down to number three behind the Chevelle SS396 and number one Road Runner.
Interestingly, something of a retro GTO was planned to follow the Holden Monaro version before GM pulled the plug on Pontiac.
The “All Rise For The Judge” ad lists transmission choices as 4 speed on the floor (yay) or Turbo-Hydramatic (boo)! Too bad ads like this are gone forever.
Decades TV showed “Laugh In” episodes until a couple of weeks ago when the station was removed from my local airwaves. Show seems a whole lot cornier now then back in the day.
Also see “you bet your sweet bippy”. And “ sock it to me?” and “look that up in your funk and wagnall’s“
“Here Comes the Judge” by Shorty Long:
This is, IMHO, the best of the all are great A-Body cars. None of them had any serious flaws, styling wise, but this was the best, inside and out. A neighbor’s brother visited with his maroon ’66 GTO weekly, and I wasn’t, and still aren’t in love with it’s looks. It got wrecked and the “Orange”(Because that’s what it really is) Judge that replaced it was so much better looking. I knew people with Regals, Chevelle’s, Tempests, and Cutlasses of that era, a ’71 Cutlass was my first car, and they all looked good, even the grandpa cars, but the muscled up ones looked great, and the Judge was at the top. I didn’t really like the stickers much though.
It’s not original without Rally II wheels without trim rings. No go. I do not understand aftermarket wheels. Anyone can get them. But you have to buy a Pontiac to get Rally IIs. Aftermarket wheels are just ignorant.
Anyone can keep a car numbers matching original too. In this case it’s 20 bolts and back to stock.
No flip up lights? Boooo
Great read that I almost skipped on. Not much of a muscle guy here, being on the early end of the millennial spectrum but I DO appreciate a good survivor. I love the whole original owner story and the patina to match. I hope this car finds a sympathetic new caretaker to preserve this car as-is into the coming decades when it comes time for the guy to hang up the keys.
My Uncle’s nephew, (Wife’s side) bought a new Judge and my Uncle co-signed. The nephew couldn’t or didn’t want to keep up the payments and high insurance costs. He was set to let the car go. So my Uncle took it over. It had a four speed and he drove it that way for a while. He worked at GM in Fremont and found a co worker who had an automatic GTO. He worked out a deal where the guy would swap out the auto for the manual trans. He drove it for years until it was wrecked, then he sold it to a cousin of mine who worked in a body shop. He fixed it up to like new, and drove it for a couple more years. Love the orange paint.