(first posted 8/10/2011)
“Memo to Chevrolet Product Planning from GM Central Committee, January 1984: Gentlemen, it appears that Chrysler has stumbled upon something with its Hail Mary minivan. Poor, desperate, stupid Chrysler. They jerry-rigged a K car and actually hit on an idea. Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in a while. Although we are still not sure that these are really necessary, if this is what people want, our Astro/Safari program will give them a real one. Our mini-van must be bigger and more powerful, which is what people REALLY want. How hard can it be to make a minivan?”
I made this memo up, of course, but it seems that this is exactly what went through the minds of GM product planners during the gestation period of the Chevrolet Astro. As was becoming a habit, GM couldn’t have been more wrong.
It is familiar history that when Chrysler introduced the minivan in 1984, we were all introduced to a new concept – the small car-based van. Although there had been many people-moving variations on small commercial vans in the past, nobody before Chrysler designed a vehicle with the utility of a van and the driving ease and comfort of a passenger car. This was some new thinking in response to CAFE and the high fuel prices that were fresh in everyone’s memory. The question faced by everyone else in the auto industry was this: Was the Chrysler concept really an answer to a question that nobody had considered but that everyone would be asking? Or was Chrysler’s minivan a desperate company’s doomed attempt to build a small van off of an unsuitable platform because it was the only one available? GM went with the second option.
Vans had become very popular in the 1970s, but were limited in their appeal due to their large size and truck-like ride and handling. After 1979, their fuel-guzzling ways began the vehicles’ slow demise. So, for engineers and product planners steeped in the old paradigms, the 1985 Astro almost designed itself. Take all the features of the popular Chevy van and make it 25% smaller. The unit structure was a clean sheet design, to which the engineers attached a subframe with a front suspension largely borrowed from the B body station wagon. Although the Iron Duke 4 cylinder was offered, the mainstay would be the 4.3 liter Vortec V6, which was itself 3/4 of the venerable 350 V8.
The 1985 Astro (and its twin, the GMC Safari) turned out to be everything that the Caravan/Voyager was not. It was larger, came with V6 power and a traditional rear drive platform, and had a substantially higher tow and payload capacity (it was rated to tow up to 6,000 pounds vs. 2,000 for the Chrysler twins). In short, instead of a minivan, it was a mini-Van.
This distinction was not lost on Lee Iacocca, who drove the point home in a confrontational 1985 print ad. Although Chrysler was making the hard hits in its advertising, it needn’t have: The Caravan and Voyager continued to be the Magic Wagon by hitting a real sweet spot in the marketplace, and the Astro would never give it a serious challenge. Once the sales numbers started to roll in, GM hit the reset button and started work on a passenger car-based minivan to finally put that upstart Chrysler back in its place.
Sales and production figures are hard to come by on these, but a January 19, 1994 article from the Baltimore Sun indicated that Chrysler’s share of the minivan market was 48% in 1992, while the GM vans reached 24%. The problem was that this figure included both this vehicle AND the dustbuster triplets (Lumina APV, Trans Sport and Silhouette), then in their third year. Worse, Chrysler could have sold more but for capacity constraints.
Our younger readers may not have any idea how humiliating this must have been to GM. In the early 1980s, GM was the 800 pound gorilla of the U.S. auto industry. The Chevrolet Division had a dealer network second to none, and was the beneficiary of the widespread belief (particularly in the middle 2/3 of the U.S.) that nobody built a vehicle as well as GM did. For Chrysler to overcome a much smaller dealer network and a 25 year reputation for inferior quality and bad resale value and STILL outsell GM’s offering (and by a lot) must have been seen as the car industry’s equivalent of Barney Fife administering a beat down to Hulk Hogan.
A funny thing happened, though. As with the Suburban that was beginning to catch fire in the mid ’80s, the Astro/Safari sort of backed into a small but significant niche. Although never really competitive with Chrysler’s concept of a minivan, the Astro and Safari became a steady seller to those who needed most of the capability of a large van or Suburban but in a more compact size. As both a passenger and a cargo vehicle, this little truck was built for 21 model years with but a single significant refresh in 1995.
The Astro reminds me of the GM B body in a lot of ways. First, it was a solid, durable vehicle. The inherent goodness of the Chevrolet small block V8 came through the translation into Vortec pretty much intact. The structure was reasonably solid, and these were quite resistant to corrosion (much moreso than the big Chevy van or the competing Aerostar). There are still a lot of these on the road. I found both of these very nice examples within days of each other. This little van became almost Ford-like in its long life with basically zero investment from its maker. It is virtually impossible to distinguish an ’85 from a ’94. The blue one is probably a ’93 or ’94 due to the steering wheel with an airbag. The gray one – who knows? – although the ABS badge on the rear probably puts it into the early 90s.
We cannot ignore the Astro’s one glaring weakness, real or perceived – the 1996 crash test from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Let’s just say that the vehicle did not do well. But in fairness, there were very few vehicles tested in the mid 1990s that had been designed to truck standards of the early ’80s. The test result did the Astro no favors, but the little truck still managed to hang around for another 9 model years (through 2005).
The Astro became GM’s first failed attempt to go man on man with the Chrysler minivan. But still, GM’s approach was not an unreasonable one in 1985 when the target had not really come into focus yet. The Astro was both a unique vehicle and a good one that charmed a lot of owners over its many years. There are a lot of these still out in daily service where most of the other contemporary minivans (including the Chryslers) have all but disappeared. The Astro was a failure as a minivan, but had a long and successful career as a little-big van. I wonder if Lee Iacocca would be so hard on it now?
Ha. We had a couple of Astros (Astroes?) at work for running errands. I always figured that they were designed for people without a left foot, because there was nowhere to put it while driving. Excellent point about the 100% attrition rate of early Caravans whereas there seems to be a good number of ratty Astros still on the road.
@ I always figured that they were designed for people without a left foot, because there was nowhere to put it while driving.
Just like a big van, only 25% less room in the footwell 🙂
I rented one in 1985 when they first came out, and that made itself instantly and painfully obvious. Even a few extra inches here would have helped.
That legroom was pure torture, though I liked their stout build and the 4.3 had guts and decent mpg. I had a height challenged friend who loved his, and put 150k miles on it with no major problems.
The trick is to put your left foot under the break pedal. Not ideal but its worked for me for the last 12 years.
I have had 4 of them, each one made it to 200k, gas mileage on my AWD
wasn’t very good obviously.
My babysitter had a series of these to haul us all around. They were always GM loyalists, so it made sense. It drove like a truck, as I recall, and I hated the front because, even as a child, the dash/footwell were so close, there was no room for your feet, and the oddly shaped door combined with high door sills made it a challenge to get into.
Although I do recall especially liking the look of the Safari refresh (but then again, there was a time I thought the Celebrity wagon looked good).
The crash scores are not to be underestimated though. My friend’s mother got in an accident in one, and the entire engine/transmission was driven into the passenger compartment (past and under her). She recovered (and they replaced it with a Chevy Venture, naturally), but it did signify one of the major issues with this design.
Also interesting to note, GM made an extended version of this.
My friends had a ’94 Astro, and you are spot on in regards to being difficult to enter. They are durable, however. Theirs had over 250,000 miles on it, on the same motor and trans I believe, and ran fine and looked pretty good.
The Venture is also a deathtrap though.
Worst. Ergonomics. Ever.
I had one of these as a rental on a family trip to the Grand Canyon in 1999 and was convinced that GM made these as part of a conspiracy with chiropractors. I couldn’t wait to turn that thing back in and get something,anything that would be more comfortable. A couple of years later ,we bought a T&C and it became clear to me why GM not only couldn’t get any traction in the minivan sales race, but was failing as a company,too.
To this day, I refuse to ride in any Astrovan for any reason.
Ergonomics?? Its a VAN, the ergonomics are in the back, with the huge square open cargo/passenger area… LOL
But seriously, this is why it failed as a passenger car alternative. It is simply a classic american van, scaled down 5/8ths. For what it does, it does well, but it was designed to be practical, not ergonomic. The van template for the US was designed in the 70s, and really hasnt changed much. Even today’s full size vans are not ergonomic.
In 1986 my parents set out to replace my mom’s 1973 Dodge Coronet sedan. They were ideal candidates for a minivan, and my dad liked how the Astro/Safari were still RWD with some towing capacity. He tried to dicker with the salesman, but they wouldn’t budge on price. My dad threatened to go see the competition, but was informed “We have no competition!”
So we bought a 1986 Ford Aerostar instead. Ultimately it was a huge POS, and solidified my dad’s (and my own) disdain for the blue oval brand. A few years later, when my grandma was shopping for a new car, my parents took her 1986 Monte Carlo and used the Aerostar as her trade-in instead.
In my experience. many people today don’t even think of the Astro/Safari as a minivan because it’s so much larger than other “modern” minivans. My employer had an Astro as a company vehicle. Whenever I referred to it as a minivan, usually someone would scoff, “That’s not a minivan.” I’ve owned a fullsize GMC van though, and I know the Astro isn’t one!
@So we bought a 1986 Ford Aerostar instead. Ultimately it was a huge POS
Be sure to tune in to a future installment of HHCIBTMAM 🙂
I always thought the Aerostar “improved” over it’s life cycle. Maybe because my best friends parents still have their 1992 Extended Wheelbase one with the 4.0 Cologne V6. They almost got rid of it during the “Cash for Clunkers” fiasco a few years back, but couldn’t find a SUV they wanted (for the room) that had the mileage improvement mandate to replace it. I think they had even worse luck finding a replacement for the 1995 Villager Nautica too.
In regards to the Astro/Safari, it seems that they were inherently decent trucks, but I couldn’t see living with one day to day. Out of the RWD “minivans” a Mazda MPV or the Aerostar seemed more livable on a daily basis.
Odd thing about the Mazda MPV–I don’t know that they ever sold that well, but I see a lot of them in LA, usually driven by the same demographic that keeps older, mostly Toyota trucks chugging along in daily use for landscaping and other utility duty. (How best to put this…the not-always-documented, often-paid-under-the-table population of Southern California.) Maybe they were a bigger/longer-lasting hit in Mexico?
My cousin has had an Astro van forever, which is amazing to me given its discomfort factor–he has limited mobility due to a knee injury that never healed correctly and I’m surprised he can get in and out of it.
OTOH, I have a Chrysler T&C for a rental this week, and although it’s not quite a Chrysler in the mold of the classic 300s or the mid-60s New Yorker (for which there was a CC), it is still a very nice vehicle.
Be sure to tune in to a future installment of HHCIBTMAM
I figured as much. I’ll save my Aerostar vitriol for the appropriate time.
It’s not a minivan, its a semivan.
What’s the difference?
As I continually tell my significant other to this day, our Safari is not a minivan — it is a mid-sized van.
The two pictured above are 1990-94 models. The three slots below the grill are the giveaway. The 1985-89 Astro/Safaris didn’t have them.
I owned two Astros. The first was an ’85 bought in 1997. This was a one year model in that the 4.3 Vortec “N” engine had a QuadraJet and (IIRC) no computer. The 1986 “Z” engine was fuel-injected. It had a rough ride, then again it was a Starcraft conversion van – often built out of of cargo rather than passenger, at least back then.
The Turbo 700 self-destructed somewhere north of 150,000 miles, then again it was the early model and the local trans shop knew exactly what was needed to upgrade to post-1987 specs. TH700-R4s received substantial internal improvements starting in the 1987 model year and evolved into the current 4L-60E.
Two years later I sold the ’85 and bought a clean 1994 LS with the longer body – a vastly improved ride. Owned it for four years and over 100,000 miles. It finally blew out the front trans seal around 217,000 and I sold it.
Good to know how to change idler arms (there are two of them) since Astros are hard on them. Tune ups are best with one person overhead and one underneath. Also the side door can come off its track if handled too carelessly. But if I had the need I’d buy another one in a, er, um, heartbeat.
I hate minivans with a passion. Seeing those Honda ads using 70’s music and pop-culture cues to sell Odysseys are, to me, laughable. But that’s me. The Astro’s larger size – without being full-size – and RWD layout was exactly the appeal for me. I’d have never given a FWD model a second glance.
I think that there are a lot of people like you. This vehicle has always fascinated me – was it a minivan or wasn’t it? I think that by the early 90s, it was clearly not a minivan, which had come to include fwd as part of the definition. But when it was developed and introduced about a year after the Chrysler twins, GM absolutely pushed it as a minivan, and all of the automotive press treated it as one as well (along with the Aerostar which came out shortly after the Astro).
I thought the definition of minivan was: a van that fits in regular sized single car garage.
The Astro fits and the Aerostar fits.
Full size vans don’t fit.
“Or was Chrysler’s minivan a desperate company’s doomed attempt to build a small van off of an unsuitable platform because it was the only one available?”
I take exception to that statement. If the platform was so “unsuitable”, how come they sold millions of them, not to mention K-Cars and their variations? Sales records speak for themselves! The platform was quite suitable after all!
Back to the subject at hand:
Our neighbor across the street had owned three of the Astro Vans since we moved in the area 19 years ago and only recently got rid of the last one as it finally died. I rented one to move some office equipment to one of our offices in Grand Rapids in 1995. The only thing I was disappointed with was it didn’t have a cassette or CD player. Other than that, it wasn’t too bad.
Aside from that, the Astro Van was the same size or even taller than the original Ford Econoline and Chevy vans of the early 1960’s.
“Or was Chrysler’s minivan a desperate company’s doomed attempt to build a small van off of an unsuitable platform because it was the only one available?”
This wasn’t my opinion, but whether a proper minivan should be a car-based front driver or a rear-drive unit with more truck dna was an open and hotly debated question in 1985.
I figured as much. I’ll save my Aerostar vitriol for the appropriate time.
Oops, my comment wasn’t supposed to go here….
@JP:
My comment was not a personal affront – I don’t do that, I realized it was a rhetorical question. Sorry if it sounded personal.
No offense taken. I always enjoy your comments.
Where these vehicles fell behind in passenger amenities and comfort they made up for in commerical/small trades applications.
They still haven’t really been replaced as a reasonably sized affordable van to haul all your tools. The Caravan C/V isn’t nearly as durable and needs a few add-ons to be suitable. The large Ford and GM vans are often too much vehicle and getting ladders off the roof is cumbersome.
Sure, you can use a Ranger or a half ton, but nothing beats those barn doors and the sliding side door for access.
…besides the things you mentioned, it’s great for keeping the tools, merchandise, etc. inside out of the rain, and makes more sense for that than a pickup with a cap.
Cant you get a Hiace from Toyota or a H1 friom Hyundai proper freight vans?
nope. not in the states.
the Hiace’s I’ve ridden in, didn’t have the flat low floor that the Astros have.
While its not RWD the Focus based Transit Connect appears to be filling some of the small enclosed runabout for tradesmen and delivery niche.
A good number of the AWD models still soldier on up here..they are just enough truck to tow your sleds or 1/2 cord of wood. You get 3 rows in the wheelbase of a Tahoe/Yukon.
Despite their apparant (mostly ergonomic/comfort) shortcomings, these obviously carved a niche out in the marketplace for themselves having remained on GM’s sales roster for a remarkably long time. My opinion is that it was because they were rear wheel drive (allowing them to be used for real work) coupled with basically conservative styling. They definitely appealed to a specific type of customer. Once enough years had elapsed to reveal how truly durable these proved to be, it was only icing on the cake, literally leading to customers buying successive copies of these. I pass a house on my way to work every day that still has TWO of these parked in the driveway.
In “middle America” where “Detroit Loyalty” was exceptionally wide-spread the Astro was and still is omnipresent.
My dad loved these.
Though he never owned one himself, it would be the family’s holiday rental of choice for years. He much prefered RWD vehicles, for one, and he also loved the VORTEC grunt and the roooom – footwells notwithstanding.
Years later, I would log my fair share of miles in a Safari company van. I, in my own right, developed a strong liking for the beast. Put the gas pedal down, and the sucker would launch.
It’s for this reason a co-worker nick-named the passenger-side hand grip the “holy s**t!” handle. 🙂
Great article on a vehicle that is still relatively common, but regularly ignored. This article is another reason why this site is so great!
These had no chance of making any headway in the family van market for a big reason – the interior. If I recall correctly, these had, by far, the cheapest plastics and vinyls of any vehicle. It was as though GM trimmed all versions with the small tradesman in mind. They were far inferior to the Chrysler minivans in this regard, and even the Ford Aerostar.
At the time, this vehicle simply reeked of the “not invented here” mentality that had ruled GM since at least the mid-1960s. GM’s attitude was that, if GM hadn’t come up with the idea, then it either was seriously flawed, or it wasn’t worth the trouble. Hence, GM’s slowness to adopt the Ford dual-action tailgate on wagons (which debuted for 1966), and the failure to react to the Dodge Club Cab pickup of the early 1970s. If GM did come up with alternative – the sliding tailgate on the 1971 full-size wagons, for example – it tended to be the answer to a question nobody asked.
While Chrysler had used the K-car platform because nothing else was available, and it was too broke to develop a new one, GM had suitable platforms for a true minivan in the form of the front-wheel-drive A-bodies and the upcoming 1986 downsized full-size cars. They were, in many ways, better than the K-car platform. But apparently GM couldn’t admit that Iacocca really did have a better idea, so it it rolled out these vehicles, which were downsized regular vans
Fortunately for GM, these vehicles found a willing market. In some ways, this was the forerunner of the new Ford Transit – a smaller, easier-to-handle commercial vehicle for people who needed extra carrying capacity but didn’t want the bulk and expense of a full-size fan.
GM ended up hitting a target…it just wasn’t the intended target.
I totally agree with the comment about the interiors.
One thing I have not read in the comments so far is this: both Ford and GM were blind sided by Chrysler and had to come up with a 7 seat van that fits thought a 9×7 garage door and in a New York minute. That was much easier done on an S10 or Ranger platform than on a uni-body platform. Once these RWD minis were on the dealer’s lots the work started (or continued) on the dust busters and Windstar.
The market for the Mini-van was discovered by accident: they were compromises with towing capacity.
Astros are still a mainstay of my daily drive here in Grand Rapids. I know four people who have at least one, but only one of them is used for passenger duty. The other ones are all trade related, whether pulling a trailer full of landscape equipment or another one hauling a trailer for a concessionaire.
Friends of mine just recently disposed of a ’93 Astro conversion van that had been ‘accessorized’ by members of the immigrant community. My buddy spent so much time un-accessorizing it, it became too much like a job for him. The van was prone to dead batteries due to the, uh, custom lights and extra amps and other whatnot that was exorcised from the ‘Stro. At least he bought it cheap…
But I can definitely attest to the “holy sh*t” acceleration of one unladen. The old Vortec has some grunt.
I’ve read where the Astro/Safari has/had a big following in Japan, and that the original Toyota xB was a ‘inspired’ by the toaster on wheels, if not a 5/8 copy of the old Stro. Glad to see American design in the forefront again!
I can attest to thier popularity in Japan as I just came back from a week long tour of the Island of Kyushu (Nagasaki-Fukuoka-Unzen areas).
I saw a number of them in conversion form.
Tahoes and Navigators ,while not exactly common as dirt, were also spotted,
& XJ Cherokees have a following as well, evidently.
Even saw a couple of 80s era Blazers.
Here is a site with some excellent information on the “vortec” heads (I did not realize that GM was using these as far back as 1986 – I am more familiar with the term dating to 1996 when GM updated their truck engines):
http://www.chevymania.com/tech/vortec.htm
I have known owners of these vans who liked them a lot and easily racked up close to 200K miles. The towing capacity is a definite plus. I was looking at them prior to buying my first pickup truck back in the late 1990s, and as mentioned above, they did make an extended version which was 10″ longer. This is a very important detail if your criteria is to be able to haul a 4′ x 8′ sheet in the back with the doors closed!
These vans served a very important niche on the commercial side for urban delivery and service vehicles, now (attempting to be) served by the likes of the Ford Transit Connect. It saddens me that we can’t continue to make right-sized utility vehicles on our own shores, as there will always be a need for them.
My dad swears by these things, he loves them. He is a professional carpenter and a professional limo driver, and to him, these are van equivilent of a panther. All the parts are pretty much interchangeable, they run forever, they are cheap to fix practically anything on them, they are the perfect size for contractors; small enough to park in the garage so the HOA doesnt throw a fit wherever they live, but big enough to haul 4×8 sheets of plywood, long stock, etc. And he loves that he can buy one with 60-80k miles on it, put another 100k on it, then sell it for basically whatever he paid for it in the first place. other contractors go crazy for them in good shape…
And of course, just like the Town Car he uses for limo duties, the entire thing is a write-off for his business.
I love the styling of these (the original incarnation, that is). It’s like a perfect, simplified loaf of bread and I always admired it from every angle. To me it was the best GM styling theme of the ’80s — crisp in all the right places with just the right amount of curve to keep it from being too severe. The original Seville (’76) started this theme and it continued with a number of vehicles. Although laughed at a lot, the 1st J-cars had a lot in common with this (look at a Cavalier wagon) and so did the original S-10 pickup, which I thought was just the perfect look for a small truck. The mechanicals, reliability, and ergonomics may have been questionable, but the styling doesn’t look dated, 25 years later.
BTW…… A Huge THANK YOU to JPcavanaugh. I Thought if any CC was going to be boring, The Chevy Astro was gonna be it. It was well written, brought up all that made it a unique competitor, or NOT, lol.
I enjoyed reading it from beginning to end. A surprisingly interesting entry.
The only rides I have had in these things I wondered why on earth you would pick this if you Didn’t need the VAN capability to haul Music Equipment and such.
As A kid, cub & Boy Scouting provided exposure to how truck like clunky boxes these things could truly be.
I have rarely been in one since.
I much prefered a nice roomy Station wagon as a Passenger.
The Front passenger seat feels particularly vulnerable to crashes.
GM designed some piss poor front passenger footwells. The last F-bodies had the Catalytic Converter *RIGHT THERE* and that was barely tolerable when the padding of the interior carpet started to disintegrate from all the heat.
Yes, I always wondered who signed off on the placement of the catalytic converter on the Camaro and Firebird!
The worst footwell I remember was my sister’s ’79 Chevy Monza (Vega-based) in which you felt like you were sitting on the ground with your legs stretched out in front of you into a footwell that seemed like a black hole you couldn’t see. Funny, she went on to an Astro van (actually two) that she raised her family in. And she had two perfectly normal feet!
LAx – thank you for the encouraging words. I kind of surprised myself on this piece, while working through it, I developed a fondness and respect for the Astro that I didn’t have so much at the outset. But I have kind of a thing for rugged durability in a car.
On the footwells, you guys just never spent enough time in the front passenger seat of a Dodge B series van where the only option is one foot in front of the other. single file. Any footwell seems roomy after that.
As Stephanie can well attest (curse) to. Good thing she has fairly small ones.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/inaband/astro003.jpg
My favorite [if the link works]
I just finished reading an article in Collectable Automobile about the infamous GM X-body development and it said that GM had a minivan designed on the X platform more or less ready to go in 1980, only at that time they didn’t see the market for it…..supposedly someone at ChryCo got wind of the X-minivan and history has shown us the K-based Caravans et al….
Pretty sad that it would take GM until the late 80’s to finish the X (later refered to as the A based) “Dustbuster” minivans…
Interesting. From everything I’ve read over the years, the credit for the minivan idea has mainly gone to Hal Sperlich, one of Iacocca’s lieutenants at Ford who followed him to Chrylser, though none other Mr. Niedermayer himself has debunked this myth:
“http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03/1972-ford-carousel-the-chrysler-minivans-true-father/#more-350855 ”
Is it just me or does the roofline of the Carousel have a strong resemblance to original Aerostar’s? Probably not a coincidence, but still an interesting discovery.
Some say the credit for the insperation of Chrysler’s Mini Van came from the engineers they hired from International when they closed the Scout business unit. Here (hopefully) is a pic from the Scout business plan of Oct 79 of the proposed 1984 Scout Mini Van.
And a little of their reasoning behind the 3 variations on their sole platform. The managers were pretty spot on with their prediction of the coming SU (V) boom.
Wonder what kind of “highly individualistic leisure time desires” they could’ve been referring to…
Back when I was working at a local Toyota dealer I bought one of these off of a customer. Usually buying a “trade in” from an “up” was frowned on. But… The used car manager didn’t want this thing anywhere near the lot. Not even for auction..
This was perfect for me as I was driving a 454 powered 79 Camaro with 4.56 gears, no heat or radio at the time (February fun!) I gave the guy $150 for it and drove off. Not a bad truck, not great either.
Having heat and a radio sure were welcome and I wound up driving the wheels off that thing!
“nobody before Chrysler designed a vehicle with the utility of a van and the driving ease and comfort of a passenger car.”
Actually, GM did. Twice. First with the almost-produced L’Universelle concept, and then with the Corvair Greenbrier.
The Greenbrier doesn’t count. A modern minivan is one that is car-like in ride and comfort and overall feel. If the greenbrier counts, then so does a VW microbus which is, by far, older.
I remember commenting to my father (life-long Chevy/GM employee at the Chevy- Parma plants) on all the excitement about the Chrysler minivans. I wondered why folks were so worked up over a vehicle that VW had produced decades earlier. His reply was because Chrysler was selling so many of the things.
This was the GM vehicle that I absolutely hated…that is until I owned one. True the interior plastics are not great, the ride so-so and the passenger foot well thing ain’t too happening but the two I own are so faithful.
As a student I could always count on my Safari to earn a buck. From helping people move, hauling gear to gigs, and delivering flowers all day it was and is always a willing partner.
Owning a 87 “shortie” van and 2000 van highlights GM’s weird idiosyncrasies, for instance; the 87 driver’s side door alignment is good but the 2000’s door just isn’t flush. Overall the later models are better but things like that always make you scratch your head.
GM had a good niche with these vans. I always felt they were the same for too long. 1996 till 2005 had small improvements but not nearly enough. The General was right to cancel them but wrong not to replace them with a fresh and worthy successor.
I like the advertisement. It’s the “clan van”. That wouldn’t go over so well these days, I think.
It looks like a good van but a lousy car not very people friendly but good with cargo like a Van shpuld be
All I can say is YUK!!! These are NOTHING more than a shipping crate for that wonderful 262 V6, As someone who used to moonlight at a friends used car lot as a mechanic, the coachwork on these vans was as horrible as the GM X-Cars, but that 4.3 always ran and ran well. I have been a marine mechanic for 20+years, and these engines are very popular and I think even more durable than a 350..their shorter length makes them more rigid
I have always liked the look of these, but have only driven an AWD EXT version from about 1998. It wasn’t horrible, but it is definately a truck.
Apparently you can drop the engine and tranny out with the subframe, replace it with a warmed-up 350, and have a really peppy van. I have never liked the feel or sound of that cobby, rough 4.3, though they make decent power.
Holy Cow! I forgot all about the Astroghini that was over on TTAC yesterday! Geez this getting older stuff sucks…
http://tinyurl.com/3v5wr29
I’ve driven all three mentioned – several of the various Chrysler generations; an Astro; and an Aerostar. Never drove a Dustbuster or an MPV.
The Ford was crap. You could feel it even when it was new. It was a taxi; and I hated that thing. Visibility poor; handling remote – as if steering by radio control. And as it turned out, the thing rusted up with the worst of them.
The Chryslers…were the best drivers’ vehicles. Chair seating. Good ergonomics. Acceptable handling; much better than most full-size cars. The Gen-2 aerodynamic Chrysler vans were the best; the Gen-3 Daimlers a close second. For driving; reliability on the 1995 design was another issue.
The Astros…were the Plain Janes. They weren’t great to drive; but they did feel solid. They weren’t great on gas; but compared favorably to a truck and were in line with many cars. They weren’t THE most fuel-efficient or space efficient – but it was a winning design, that was good enough on both levels and held up as well as anything.
My take is, the reason the Chrysler minivans disappeared so quickly…is that they were built like cars; but worked like trucks. Like the “sedan deliveries” of a generation earlier, that leads to a short vehicle life. That, and that in the Rust Belt, those things caught the cancer early and incurably.
Both my first-generation and 1995 aero Dodges died of complications of rust – or, in the case of the 1995, it was too rusty to fix when the transmission blew.
The Astro wins on that in that it was, truly, BUILT like a truck – and held up to the load.
The Astro/Safari is a vehicle that works in spite of itself. The ergonomics (as mentioned by previous posters) are awful, foot space is nonexistant, GM interior plastics are really plasticky, fuel economy is mediocre, and the rear bumper doesn’t inspire any real confidence in its ability to protect anything.
That being said, their truck-based design may have been a sales hinderance, but gave them durability that no other FWD minivan can match (except for the Honda Odyssey, and only then in people-hauling). I can’t tell you the last time I saw a Chrysler minivan on the road that was older than about 6~8 years. Aerostars and Windstars have disappeared as well. Ditto for the Toyota and Nissan (fugly) vans. Yet, there are a reasonable number of Astros and Safaris still rollin’ in the wild.
The one REAL innovation that GM had. The “Dutch doors”. Those are handy as heck!
I just “inherited” a 97 Safari from my parents (who replaced it with a new HHR), with 121k on it. From reading the responses above, looks like I will get a few good years of service from it, even if the boxy design stands out like a pastel suit 🙂
BTW: The 262 isn’t a quick engine, as least to me. Maybe the LM7 in the Avalanche and the LS2 in the Goat jade my perspective 😛
We had one of these … my dad always called it the Disastro!
The later years of the Astros had somewhat different looking front faces, they looked grafted from the C/K pickups.
GM and Ford never understood minivans, due to ‘not invented here’, so when they dropped theirs, claimed they are ‘dead’. Meanwhile, Chrysler, Honda, and Toyota are still selling plenty of their new minivans
I know this is an older post, but I’ve only just discovered CC and this (exact) vehicle is one that will always be near and dear to my heart… so it makes sense for my first comment.
My dad had a ’93 Astro, exactly like the blue one pictured (except for those ugly running boards), when it was new. In 1993, I thought the color was awesome and the fact that it’s canvass was a large rectangle was also awesome. I was ten years old, I was totally psyched on it – having only known midsize American sedans of the 70s and 80s via my parents up until that point. A few years later it became the first vehicle I ever drove, then it was the vehicle I learned how to do a burnout in and mastered the “steer into the (self-induced) skid” technique in, which they preach so much in Driver’s Ed classes. Then it was the first vehicle I had my first real “date” in and accompanied me for a lot more high school memories of varying degrees of debauchery as well, which I won’t get into here. I had my own cars back then, but I had this nasty penchant for buying ones that were either European, overly-complicated, prone to massive bouts of disaster or combinations of all three (something I still can’t seem to shake), so the Astro got borrowed frequently.
IMO, a very easy and comfortable vehicle to drive sideways – and if you ever have the need to launch something over a little league baseball diamond or set of railroad tracks, the Astro will not disappoint. It only took about 8 years of abuse between me and my father before it developed the dreaded rod knock from hell, but my father also informed me it hadn’t had the oil changed since the 12k service interval (“I had it in there for so long, I just figured it might spring a leak or something if I changed it”) – so it’s a small miracle it made it to almost 200k!
Here’s some Astro/Safari minutiae CC readers might enjoy…
This vehicle had the absolute worst braking system of anything I’ve ever driven in the snow. Anything over 20MPH was terrifying. Touch brake pedal->hear relay/ABS pump racket->slide to stop 300ft down the road. I don’t know if the brakes were just bad, or if it had to do with the fact that GM trucks of this vintage utilized a very strange ABS system where only the rear axle was computer controlled ABS and the front set of wheels were standard power-assist. It did work well normally, just not with more than an inch of snow on the ground. Our example also had a crazy knack for going through fuel filters every 15k miles or so. Thankfully they were super easy to change, since I was always tasked with that project.
Equally strange, the high-output 4.3l used a port-fuel injection setup where there was only one injector with six hoses running to a vacuum controlled valve at each intake port. I know most early MPFI system functioned in essentially the same manner, but I can’t think of any other EFI setup that only used one injector split six ways. Early ones were batch-fire, then later on they developed it into a sequential system. It was good for 200hp in 1992, which was not too far off from what American pony car V8s were producing a few years earlier. Super awesome motor – people don’t maintain these at all and they’re pretty much good for 200k no matter what you throw at them.
Early Astro/Safaris had two unique options you don’t see that often unfortunately. One was a “Star Wars” digital dash ala Cavalier Z24 or Camaro Berlinetta (ridiculous for this type of vehicle) and the other was that up until the early 90s, you could get a floor-shifted manual transmission in these with either the four or V6. In fullsize American vans, “manual transmision” meant column-shifted three speed with the crappy base level straight six. I’m not suggesting this is a performance car at all, but I do think it’s pretty cool that at one point if you wanted a RWD vehicle with a T5 and a motor that made somewhere north of 150hp your options were Mustang, Camaro or….Chevy Astro! Note: the XJ Cherokee soon entered that small club too, but that’s for another glowing comment.
I don’t care what Lee Iaccocca says, the Astro is a better vehicle than the Caravan. The only cool Caravan was the Turbo I model, and that’s almost a wash because Chrysler threw that motor in everything and made it instantly cool, in my book at least. How many 1st generation Caravans does anyone see on the road these days for all the countless millions of them that were sold? AstroSafari of the same vintage is another one of those automotive cockroaches in comparison. LONG LIVE ASTROSAFARI!!
You could also get floor-shift manual transmissions (4 speed overdrive) on Dodge B-series/Ram Vans until at least 1984, and probably a lot later. The “shorty” Dodge Van wasn’t much longer than an Astro (though quite a bit taller) and shared many of its same attributes (incl. almost-reasonable gas mileage if equipped with the slant-six, and poor passenger footwell design). Both are equally missed in this market – the Transit Connect is just not quite large enough (for example – you cannot fit a motorcycle inside). If Ford would make a lengthened Transit Connect – then we’d be talkin. How come Chevy killed the Astro, Dodge the short B-series (in fact, the B-series entirely), and Ford the Ranger. All the “right-sized” vehicles are gone! Where will we be when the last of these have been completely driven into the ground? I figure it’s because only very practical people buy these kind of vehicles – and practical people rarely buy brand-new!
I had a few of these in the fleet for various utility uses. They did the job and cost less to operate than full sized vans, the only real weakness was front end parts. But they were a crude truck under the skin and there’s no way to disguise that fact with fancy wheels, plush interiors and tinted windows. Their truck like qualities are exactly why you still see them around while the competition has been crushed and shipped to China, but this was not the answer to most families needs. Neither was the dustbuster, but I’m sure we’ll be hearing about that soon. GM really pooched this segment.
I once had to obtain one quickly for a special project that came up, and the closest one that met our needs was in Calgary, 1000 km away. I flew out and drove it back and that was enough for me. The driver’s seat/pedal position/footwell was a chiropractor’s dream!
I’ve always liked the first gen Chevy Astro.
After our Aerostar finally died in 2003, I needed another tow vehicle/family car. Aerostars hadn’t been made in 6 years, and I despised SUV’s at the time – crummy gas milage and the prices were exhorbitant. We found a brand new GMC Safari with every option except leather and sunroof (neither of which I wanted anyway) for $23,000 out the door! C.D. and cassette! Rear seat audio controls, rear A/C, electric everything (unlike my Aerostar). Suburbans at the time were $40k + and Ford Explorers nearly that much, so I was in heaven. However, I soon realized why we had chosen the Aerostar over the Astro/Safari 7 years before – comfort. The drivers seat, for some reason, just did not fit me right. I had to roll up a towel to put behind my neck for any trip over an hour.
Three years later, my wife was driving about 20mph and a kid in a Civic pulled out of a parking lot and hit her broadside, at the sliding door. She barely felt it, but she heard it, looked over her shoulder and saw the sliding door caved in. Some guy helped her wire it shut with a clotheshangar. We took it to our insurance agent, who pulled off a piece of torn plastic at the doorstep, and declared “It’s totalled.” The frame was bent. I cried. I knew I’d never find a replacement.
It gives me a Bedford CF2 vibe. Bedford was GM’s British van- and truck division.
As a kid I seriously thought that a Bedford was a Ford truck with a sleeper cab.
The Bedford gives me a full size 1971-up Chevy van vibe 🙂 The styling is almost identical.
And this 1971 CF only gives me bad vibes. (The CF was introduced in 1969)
Yes, that always struck me as rather odd, that a European GM vehicle previewed the styling of an American one. Well, there were other examples too. I still maintain that the Opel K-A-D B had an influence on the 1976 Seville.
Forgot the picture…
Speaking of Opel, the 1965 Opel Blitz B already had those modern (square) lines and a short nose. (Photo courtesy: Ralf Roletschek, Wikipedia)
…although the Opel Blitz was more truck than van.
Bedford CFs have independent wishbone front suspension and actually drive well, A major mistake was made with them in Australia by fitting a Holden 6 engine and not changing the rear axle ratio to suit.
My brother had an Astro, going along the freeway to Tiger Stadium, I could watch the people on the rear bench seat get serious air every time we hit a frost heave. Real punishment to sit over that rear axle.
From my vantage point, these were anything but a failure. We had them at work, and my Dad had one until just recently. Yes, the early ones were too short, there wasn’t much foot room, and the body hardware (door handles) was of questionable GM quality. But beyond that, they hauled, towed and transported, and were rather reliable doing these tasks. They were good vehicles. How many Chrysler minivans survived commercial use?
I think the Astro/Safari vans get labeled a “failure” because they didn’t sell passenger models in tremendous numbers, and primarily because the “Dustbuster” and its successors were such flops; so failure by association.
I really don’t care for GM at this point, but I think these vans were quite respectable. GM could have done far, far worse.
We replaced a Suburban with one of these in 1997 – what a piece of crap! Ate up tires, drove like a bus, sucked gas like a pig. A/C (we lived in Florida) was awful, and it shook/rattled/rolled down the road.
We had it about a year and traded it in on another Suburban in 1998. Come to think of it that Suburban was the last GM vehicle this GM family every bought
First posted in 2911?
“Your gas mileage may vary”.
As can your opinion.
My opinion of a early 1990’s Astro that I had as an off and on work vehicle for 3 years:
The 4.3 V6 engine was rough running, not all that powerful and sucked gas. Chevy’s automatic overdrive transmission was rough shifting, “hunted” between 3rd and 4th a lot and failed early and often.
The lack of foot room for the driver has been commented on; so none needed from me. The driver’s seat was not at ALL comfortable; my lower back and knees bothered me all the time when entering/exiting/driving that penalty box for more than 20 minutes at a time. It’s bouncing/hobby horse ride quality reminded me of an early 4 wheel drive Jeep wagoner.
As with most GM products, the HVAC system was truly awesome; always a match for the Heat & Humidity the permeates New Orleans much of the year.
The base coat/clear coat paint job started peeling and flaking loose when it was all of two years old.
The Balky Brakes taught me the skill of looking far in advance and the technique of a gradual “squeeze” of the brake pedal. A Sudden Stomp on the skinny brake pedal resulted in sliding and grabbing as the anti-lock system “tried” to do it’s doubtful job.
When this van was dumped for a mid range Dodge Caravan; it was like jumping 20 years ahead in automotive design and refinement.
I did not understand the point of the Astro. It is basically a full sized van only slightly smaller. I saw a lot of the extended versions used as commercial service vehicles and I just do not get why.
Back when I was installing cell site base stations there were a lot of parking garage mounted sites we simply couldn’t get to in an Econoline or Express. We’d get a few feet past the entry booth or ticket machine and SCRAAAAAPE! Even more frustrating were the ones where you went up two or three levels with no problem and then SCRAAAAAPE! Never had that problem in one of our Astros. The Astro was also a lot easier to parallel park in the urban areas that we often worked in.
As a work van the Astro was unquestionably one of the General’s greatest hits.
Indeed, you have to wonder what, exactly, businesses used prior to the Astro. A base-trim station wagon? A mini-pickup with a cap? As a civilian vehicle, the Astro might have been sorely lacking. But as an urban, commercial service truck, it would seem to be right on the money and it’s a testament to its longevity that it went on for a couple decades virtually unchanged.
If you wanted a small, versatile, comfortable people-mover for your family, you bought a Chrysler minivan. But if you wanted something for work purposes or light towing, you bought an Astro.
On the surface, the Astro’s myriad ergonomic failings make it seem as if GM badly fumbled the whole minivan revolution but, in reality, they might have been crying all the way to the bank.
Base full-size station wagons used to be fleet masters, pre-1980’s, before smaller vans were on sale. Many used for Police Dogs or TV News crews.
On the surface, the Astro’s myriad ergonomic failings make it seem as if GM badly fumbled the whole minivan revolution but, in reality, they might have been crying all the way to the bank.
The front floorboards (especially the passenger side) left a lot to be desired, but the ones I drove were always well equipped for a work van. Cruise, tilt wheel, cloth captain’s chairs with armrests (the same as the LS level seats on the pax version), great HVAC and a decent sounding (for a Delco) AM/FM stereo (with rear speakers even though it had a divider in the back). One of ours even had power windows and locks. The one I was issued was a ’99 so it had the later dash layout with real round gauges and dual airbags.
The thing I enjoyed most about the Astro was the high front seating position. The thing didn’t sit all that high off the ground, but you were sitting almost at eye level with a school bus driver. Put the seat all the way back against the cage, set the cruise and you were good to go for a four hour round trip to some cow pasture cell site somewhere between Houston and Dallas.
I went with these kind of service vehicles:
or this:
The money quote from this thread of comments is “a semi-van not a minivan”. Bravo. I’ll think of that now every time I see one, and goodness knows there are still lots on the roads.
Yep, I am pleased to see the North Amercian commercial van world is finally getting new material – new Transit and 2nd gen Transit Connect, Ram Promaster & Promaster City, the NV200 and GM knockoff of same….After decades of tariff-fuelled (hello chicken tax!) stagnation, finally we’re entering the 21st century. Only the big Chev Express remains, and if you’ve been in one lately you’ll know it is an embarrassing throwback (yes, I know it is cheap and basically reliable, like a Lada or a Hindustan Ambassador or a 66 Impala, but really guys….)
The new smaller commercial vans are ultimately the first serious effort to replace the commercial Astros, which were tremendously useful and, as others have pointed out, actually quite reliable, Fischer-Price interiors aside. They were also absolutely hideous to drive. I especially recall a memory from 1993, spending a full day of a business trip driving work colleagues around the SF Bay Area in a rented “upscale” GM-red-mouse-fur-clad passenger version of the Astro, in intense and growing discomfort, and definitely noticing the cheapo plastics and poor handling
BTW, one of the often overlooked plusses of the Chrysler Magic Wagons was the fairly good handling, steering and dynamics. I’ve driven lots from each generation, and for what they are have to especially praise the lighter 4 cyl models.
As for the Windstar/Freestar, I have no idea what Ford was thinking. Any redeeming qualities at all to these? I’m amazed how rapidly they age and how few first-gen ones I see. And even the good-looking 2000s models (with sliding doors on both sides, at last) drove poorly compared to the Chryslers and seem to have quality issues….
One more thing I’ll say for the Astro is it was actually in many ways better than its “proper minivan” Venture replacement (with its many badge-engineered variants – Saturn Relay etc). Definitely built down to a price, and felt like it (even the loaded Buick versions (and don’t get me started on that!!….))
We purchased a 1996 Safari brand new.
The Safari lasted through 197,000 miles (when it was sold) with no problems at all with the drivetrain. The only things it needed was idler arms, oil cooler lines, radiator, and luckily a fuel pump covered under warranty. It was reliable and ran consistent if you changed the cap, rotor, plugs, and spark plug wires every 40,000 miles with AC Delco parts.
To keep the suspension from wearing idler arms you needed to grease it a lot. I also had to rotate the tires a lot because the wife would park using a tight turning radius that would scrub the tires.
The driving impressions were “meh”. The engine always labored in the top gear on the freeway. The gas mileage was only 16 to 18 mpg. For towing you had to drop it down a gear.
Before that we bought a 1990 Ford AeroStar with the 4.0 engine. The driving, comfort, and towing abilities were so much better than the Safari. But the Areostar started rusting so bad that we sold it to get the Safari in 1996. (we Ziebarted the Safari)
The Astro even found a niche in Japan, where its styling later inspired the Toyota bB (1st gen Scion xB)
I’ve always thought the front of the Astro looked like King Kong. Not sure exactly what it is that lends that impression.
Quite true, a small niche loved them. Here in the Northeast, rust got ’em in droves. Fuel mileage was dismal by all reports and garages absolutely hated working on them. But, enough bought and continued to do so, GM must have eventually have amortized the tooling and made a bit of money on them.
Great alternative view of the Astro as a successful trade/commercial vehicle. OTOH, the Mopar minivans have not really been used for commercial purposes much, though I have seen a few for the U.S. Postal Service. I wonder how those have fared in service?
I remember the rebadged Dodge Ram Van. This one below is registered as a 1999 Dodge Ram Van 2.5 TD. With the 2.5 liter VM Motori turbo diesel. A real van, so no rear seats. Instead a flat cargo floor.
In the nineties a lot of Chrysler minivans got an aftermarket van conversion. These were still registered as a Chrysler Voyager though.
Both versions were registered as commercial vehicles and were used as such.
There’s still a RAM C/V model, but I think the ProMaster City (Fiat Doblo) may be in the process of replacing it.
We have a few C/Vs at work… it’s just a regular Caravan without the rear glass or rear seats and a blacked out grille (no VM turbodiesel, unfortunately). Wikipedia implies that it has a higher towing/cargo rating, but they feel exactly the same from behind the wheel.
The campus division I worked for back in ’04 had a brand new Caravan C/V. It felt like a standard Caravan that they forgot to finish installing the interior in. Useful for our purposes (hauling computer equipment around) though things had a bad tendency to slide on the hard plastic flooring. Does not seem like it would have been cut out for any sort of actual heavy work!
Fiat may have the widest range of vans of them all.
From small to big: the Fioriono (classic name !), the Doblò (ProMaster City), the Scudo, the Ducato (ProMaster) and finally the Iveco Daily.
FWIW, a lot of used Mopar vans are used as taxis in suburban Chicagoland, just can’t beat the roominess. City cabs are mostly hybrids, or Crown Vics.
Love that semi-van reference. These were very popular in and around NYC, where parking space is always a premium, and their smaller footprint opened up a lot of spaces unfit for a full-size van. Agree with EspirtdeFacelVega that the new, European and Japanese-sourced “city” vans are their logical successors, and the Transit Connect has been very popular here in New York, both as a van, and as a taxi – although the interior is a bit too spartan and the ride too bouncy in the latter role.
After years of stagnation, it’s great to see real innovation in the van segment. I’m seeing a surprising number of Pro Masters since their introduction, and even the odd full-size transit, joining a sizable Freightliner/Dodge/MB population.
It seems like at least half of the food cart people in Manhattan still use Astros!
Love the nostalgia trip here, as I had experience with both vans growing up. By 1996, my parents’ 1991 Caravan was showing signs of illness in its Grenade-O-Magic transmission, despite having only 70,000 or so miles. So they traded it on a lightly-used 1995 Astro with Mark III conversion.
Between AWD and lugging the high-roof conversion bits, gas mileage was pretty bad. But that Astro gave us 12 years of faithful service, taking us all over the eastern US. It was finally traded off in 2008, having outlived its role as a family truckster (I had graduated college and my brother was a sophomore). It wound its way through an auto auction, and the new owner (who must have found an old maintenance invoice in a forgotten cranny) called my parents to check up on its history and let them know he was enjoying it with his family.
A perfect CC for the next questions.
Is the name “minivan” only used for people movers ? Or also for cargo vans ?
Are there also midivans and maxivans ?
A bit further up Paul posted a photo of a full-size Chevy van. I must say though that it still looks pretty small (its dimensions) to me.
It’s a name that’s impossible to nail down perfectly.
Essentially, the Astro replaced the short wheelbase versions of the “full size vans”. That became its role. All the Big 3 dropped their swb full-sized vans; Ford essentially replaced it with the Aerostar; Chrysler with their “mini-vans”.
The better name for the Astro would be “midi-van”.
“Memo to Chevrolet Product Planning from GM Central Committee, January 1984:”
I know it’s a joke, but GM didn’t just “whip up” the Astro in 6 months. [Just like the myth that Ford whipped up the Mustang II ‘overnight’ in reaction to the 1st Oil Crisis.] GM knew the Caravans were coming and green-lit the Astro a lot sooner, it takes a lot longer than 6 months to fully design a truck/car, even if using existing platform.
We had one for a company sh*t hauler. Had this weird three door tailgate that I neither understood nor cared for. I think it was a V-6? All that mattered was the A/C worked. I found it to be not horrible, which is the top of the line in my experience with GM since 1974.
There was a pop top camper based on the Astro, would work for me, with rear wheel drive I could tow my boat, bring a Honda 90 on a front bumper mount and be happy toolin’ around, camping at NW lakes. Man in my neighborhood bought a nice one for $6,000. Have seen several tatty pop tops. Well used, but still motoring.
I remember seeing these tailgates at Auto Show and they were called “Dutch Doors”.
Not a credible competitor to the Caravan, of course, as stated. I’ve ridden in several civilian-trim Astros and all were bouncy, noisy, truck-like affairs with imperfect ergonomics. But they make a damn good work vehicle with the 4.3/RWD.
Also, no matter how badly you treat an Astro, they’re quite hard to kill. A friend owned one that had over 200K miles on it when I first encountered it, and while it was battered, rattly, and made threatening noises with regular frequency, it just kept running. He eventually traded it in on a much newer car but even then it still ran with over 230K miles. A current co-worker also has one, a passenger version as well, from somewhere late in the model run (’97 or ’98 I think?). His has over 270K miles on it and runs like a top. There’s something to be said for a 4.3 on a basic, well-sorted chassis when durability is the goal.
Were the front ends really B-body based or A/G body? I remember my dad had one at is shop for a few years as a cheaper to drive alternative to the full size vans they normally used. It always ate brakes and front end parts – like they were undersize for the job.
Probably still running on in defiance, though.
love my 2000 Astro LS. over 200k miles, virtually neglected on service and still hauls ass, literally and figuratively. the customization possibilities are endless, it’s all just steel with a bit of plastic cladding and bumper covering. i hear front end suspension goes quick (the clunking on hard turns tells me an upper control arm is in my Astro’s immediate future), but it is a beast and, despite pretty basic body styling on both the 1st gen and even moreso the 2nd gen with it’s vertical (rather than slanted) front clip, they have that hold-over aesthetic appeal of the ’70s Vanduras and G-series, but in a manageable daily driver design. won’t drive anything else!
I just bought my fourth a 99 with a 169000 miles on it for 500 dollars, in good shape fully loaded, but 5000 in it including a trans job, it runs really well and has AWD, they are highly sought after by contractors and tradesman
GARY…I’m looking at a 2001 Astro with 221,000 miles. It supposed to have been regularly serviced but never a new transmission. I see you did $5000 worth of work incl. a trans. Can you tell me what you encountered? I’m trying to get a picture of what my future repairs will be if i buy it. Or if anyone can step in here I’d appreciate it. I’m going on a 4 month, 10,000 mile trip in the USA and need it to last that long as a rental would cost too much. Thx
KP sorry for the delay getting back to you, I had to do the transmission because it had a slipping torque converter which gave me a check engine light, in New Jersey a check engine light will fail you for inspection, it needed an exhaust system tires etc, it runs great now, but it needs a radiator because I drive a lot and far from home, I am going to redo the cooling system including a brand new Delco water pump while it’s apart even though it has no issues. Also they tend to go through fuel pumps about every 80 to 90 thousand miles.
They are really good durable vehicles, please let me know if I can be of further help.
Thanks Gary. I read that the Astro radiators post mid 80’s have plastic components that guarantee planned obsolescence. I remember reading about a quiet automaker meeting where they made the mental switch from proud durability to cheap parts so you’d buy more in the end. They beefed up the advertising to give us brand loyalty so we’d return to them, then chop blocked us. Seems like the whole manufacturing industry followed suit. Anyway, someone recommended an all-metal radiator like they used to have. I’m concerned about the cooling system since I’m taking a big trip around the States and will be in the humid, hot regions for a few months, putting lots of miles on. The other thing I’m wary of is that a lot of people tell about the rough ride if anyone is in the back. I will be only using the rear bench over the axle for the occasional passenger. Have you ever concerned yourself with different shocks and tires for a smoother ride, and if so do you have recommendations?
I always thought GM marketed these as a smaller van, not a minivan. The Chrysler minivan is great for moving people and the occasional bulky item. The Astro is great for hauling stuff, and the ocassional load of people. I still see these Astros plugging along with contractors, small plumbing outfits, and flower delivery. The Astro fits in parking garages where full size vans don’t. I see them at vintage races too, usually pulling old formula v cars. GM didn’t really didn’t compete with the Caravan, they saw a different use for a similar size vehicle. The Astro can pick little Jimmy up at school and tow the jet ski.
This sums up the Astro about as well as anything. It was a small commercial van that could see occasional civilian use, whereas the Mopar was a civilian minivan that could see occasional cargo hauling. The terrible ergonomics of the Astro is exactly the sort of thing fleets look for, i.e., they’re marketed to the people who buy them, not drive them.
I’ve ridden in a friend’s heavily-loaded 2003 Astro passenger-van. Horrible engine access (a deal-killer for me) and of course NO foot-room. The seats are reasonably comfortable, (though he’a replaced the driver’s seat a couple times) and the basic engine & tranny have held up OK. But he’s had many problems with the suspension, cooling-system, fuel-system and GM’s nightmare electronics – audio, ABS/ESC, power-locks etc…
More frustrating – he got heavy-duty rear springs off a salvage-yard Astro cargo-van with rear drums. Then discovered that GM inexplicably modified his disc-brake rear-axle so the cargo-springs won’t bolt on!
Happy Motoring, Mark
Nine years after the original post, and 15+ after the last Astro/Safari was made, I *still* see plenty of these plying their daily trades, here in The Land That Rust Forgot™.
Lately, though, it seems like the tradespeople have beaten most of the cargo versions to death, so they’ve taken to buying the passenger/conversion vans, literally spray painting the windows black, and presumably gutting the interiors.
My utility company loved the Astro’s. New 86’s, after an ice storm, zooming across the parking lot with front brakes locked and back wheels turning (high idle) to bang into a brick wall. Here comes another! Driver with arms straight out and foot mashing the brake pedal……..bang! Three in all before they managed to get the remainder to stay put. It turned out there wasn’t enough rear brake power to stop the rear wheels when on icy surfaces with the vehicle in high idle. I thought they were decent vehicles and my mom pulled a small camper with one.
Yes, GM could have been and was more wrong–enter the “dustbusters”!!! When i was building vans, you could hardly make a template for an Astro that would work on 2 different vans. Not good.
Stop beating up on this van!! General Motors got it right with the Astro. The cargo van version of the Astro was hugely successful with contractors and other commercial users. It was the small commercial van of choice over Aerostar and Caravan C/V. The only reality to GM getting it wrong with this vehicle was when they stopped building the commercial version Astro.
What I am saying is not opinion. I owned a leasing company and almost 100% of my business was leasing commercial vehicles to contractors (electrical, telecommunication, HVAC, security, plumbing, etc.) I leased more full size vans than small vans but there was a huge market for smaller vans like Astro and all of the 100’s of contractors who I leased these Astro Cargo vans to would have nothing else. Reliable, space efficient, decent payload and better looking than any of the competition.
Stop beating up on this van!!
Agreed; we will stop. Actually we already did that in several more recent posts that were much more appreciative of the Astro’s enduring qualities.
The issue that this articles addresses is comparing it directly to the Chrysler minivans. Clearly as a compact efficient people mover, they were superior. But the Astro was obviously superior as a commercial vehicle, as well as for those families that wanted towing capacity and certain other qualities.
The Astro has had the last laugh, as it’s still quite in demand in the current vanlife era. Good luck finding an AWD version; they’re red-hot. I see a lot more Astros on the street than similar-vintage Caravans.
I didn’t think I was beating it up – I came to appreciate it as I wrote this all those years ago.
It was only a failure in the main part of the minivan market that Chrysler first exploited and then commanded, and the respective sales figures show it. However (and this is big) it found a niche where the Chrysler was wholly unsuited and did really well there for a long time. The buyers who needed more brawn (be they tradesmen or families who towed things) found that these hit the spot. And nobody disputes that they were tough old things – far moreso than the Chryslers.
Having worked on the Astro/Safari vans and later had them in the fleet I managed it was another GM vehicle that suffered from a half baked ideas.
The over all concept was fine for what it was, a 3/4 scale work van.
Early ones suffered from the infamous 700R4 transmission debacle.
Early ones suffered head gasket failures due to a new head gasket design.
Early ones suffered from A/C compressor drive belt failures.
Once GM fixed this stuff in 1992 they thru in the wacky CPI fuel injection system. The Single fuel injector, fuel lines and fuel nozzles were INSIDE the intake manifold. Got a nozzle that’s plugged? Pull everything off the top of the intake manifold, take the top of the manifold and now you have access. Oh by the way the whole system has to be replaced, no separate serviceable parts available. Later they updated the system to individual injectors but still inside the manifold. They used this system on V8’s also. Boy you should have seen some customers reaction to the repair estimates.
You can read about this system here:
https://www.underhoodservice.com/gmc-chevy-light-truck-central-port-fuel-injection-diagnosis/
We bought these because they were the only 4 wheel drive vans available. They were handy for servicing radio tower sites.
…nobody before Chrysler designed a vehicle with the utility of a van and the driving ease and comfort of a passenger car. ..
Well, no one except Volkswagen (Microbus) and GM (Corvair Greenbrier) and Ford (Falcon Econoline) and Chrysler (Dodge A100). But OK, other than those…
“the driving ease and comfort of a passenger car”
You missed the “comfort” part of that sentence. 🙂
Almost all retail buyers chose the Country Squire over the Econoline for a reason. I will give you the Microbus, but then it was only as easy to drive and comfortable as a VW – which was a whole different thing from a traditional American passenger car.
The Astro/Safari, in addition to being a deathtrap, is also a penalty box. Unless the driver’s left leg ends at the knee, there’s noplace to put it—so eventually your left foot winds up under the brake pedal. There’s a long list of other sturdy reason these turds are very disagreeable, and I’m glad they are disappearing from the roads.
Now let’s see if the readable-size version of Chrysler’s brash ad will attach to this post:
I had to laugh when I saw the ad you posted! “You can wear a hat while driving one”. Wow! Shades of K T Keller? That was amusing.
I took delivery of a 1986 GMC Safari on October 4, 1985 and drove it until mid-May of 1999. I retired it with 318,000 miles on the odometer and a spun main bearing. While the GMC Safari/Chevy Astro did not compete in the minivan market with the Chrysler minivans, it did have a following as has been noted. Mine was an eight-passenger model painted burgundy with matching red velour interior. It was also loaded. It was indeed a small truck. It carried a load, it traveled well, and it had pep. With three quarters of a 350 V8 but the accessories of the 350 including water pump, it was bound to last. One Safari owner worked filling vending machines at rest areas along an interstate highway. In less than three years he accumulated 600,000 miles on the engine. GM made him an offer to switch out the engine because they wanted to study it for durability. Unmentioned in the owner’s manual is that in case of catastrophic oil pressure loss, the engine shut down. Having a flat floor from front to rear was great for travel. We bought durable nylon suitcases for each of our three children that fit right under the seats. Funny stuff was the day when I purchased several cantaloupes. On the way home I had to suddenly brake. The cantaloupes rolled out of the plastic bag in the load area and rolled all the way to the front of the Safari. It is true that the vehicle needed a left footrest. I missed that. I am 5’ 6” tall or was at the time of ownership of the Safari, so leg room for me was adequate. Entrance required stepping on the step well plate, which is normal, and then swinging into the driver’s seat. My wife at 4’, 10” found it easy to ingress and egress. That driver’s seat was a captain’s chair with dual armrests! Visibility was excellent. Touring was a delight and for daily use in my work selling commercial application trucks it was good for keeping a sizeable plastic file for my records between the two front seats. The vehicle had what was determined to be an “itch.” To wit, the plant in Delaware built these vehicles so well that the dash pieces would rub one against the other until time went by. Do I miss this vehicle? You bet that I do! The ergonomics were excellent, so controls were easy to access. The GM successor minivan for the Chevy-Pontiac-Oldsmobile nameplates was goofy with a difficult windshield to clean on the inside. I still see non-passenger versions of the Safari and Astro running around. Incidentally, I wore out two automatic speed control units and replaced them each time. That is more because I use this device all the time.
This is easily my favorite series on CC.
“Although never really competitive with Chrysler’s concept of a minivan, the Astro and Safari became a steady seller to those who needed most of the capability of a large van or Suburban but in a more compact size.”
If you need to haul or tow but don’t need a full-size van, truck or SUV, the Astro is just about your best option, with the Ford Aerostar a fairly close 2nd (I used to own a ’96) IF you can find a decent one & get the correct replacement parts for it. I highly doubt you’ll ever see a Chrysler Pacifica, Honda Odyssey, Kia Sedona, or Toyota Sienna pulling an 18-ft car trailer even unloaded–they weren’t designed for that type of job. With the correct hitch setup my ’05 Astro pulls it like a dream. The 4.3 Vortec may be underpowered by modern standards but it still gets the job done without skipping a beat; low-end torque isn’t absent by any means. You get a LOT more room for your money compared to a Suburban too, not to mention on a considerably shorter wheelbase!
A friend had a used ’03 Astro for several years. While the basic engine & tranny held up OK, it was a money-pit, with constant electrical, cooling system & body hardware problems.
Access to anything underhood was horrible. As to the lack of room for the driver’s left foot, the front passenger footwell must have been designed for double amputees!
He liked it, but Last winter it was totalled. The one or two decent Astro/Safari vans he saw were way too expensive. So he replaced it with an ’05 Buick LeSabre, which has started to nickel & dime him, But at least it’s far more comfortable and easy to work on
Happy Motoring, Mark.
The Astro was the best midivan. It was the right size for a lot of business applications. It just was not a van for a family. The advantage of the Chrysler’s was that they were low to the ground and children could get I think it easily. Lee Iacocca designed one at Ford years earlier but it was not produced. The Chrysler was the right product at the right time. But the quality was not there. They had a lot of transmission problems.
A friend of mine had the Chevy Lumina Dustbuster. The driving position was awful. It was like you were driving from the back seat. My brother bought the Windstar and it was a quality problem. He didn’t keep it long. My sister is short and ejected some of the larger vans. She bought the Mercury Villager and it was a great vehicle. It was based on the Nissan Maxima platform. She kept it for many years. Both my brother and sister eventually replaced their vehicles with Honda Odyssey’s. Honda (and Toyota) really got the concept right.
Well I grew up in the Astro. And to me it is THE BEST vehicle out there. And I have driven other vehicles of all types. But everything about the Astro fits me so perfectly.
And for those complaining about the foot room… I realy dont get it. The full size vans had the same design and the design was not for you to spread your legs out like Bambie on ice. Your to but your feet down in front of you…
I have owned my Astro for 28 years and growing. This van has towed a 5,500lbs travel trailer up into the rocky mountains. It has towed boats, and vehicles, and utility trailers. To this day it has well over 340,000 miles on all original motor, trans, axle, steering, rear end. And is my daily driver. I have taken it off roading. I have stuffed the van with engines, tractors, motor bikes, coaches, beds… i could go on…
And even after all that my van has been through, it still rides and handles better then the brand new Ford Transits. My husband owns a 2001 Astro cargo, and for work he is a fleet manager. He buys and drives brand new, vehicles everyday. And at the end of the day, gets into his over 20 year old Astro van and heads home. And he comes home and says that his over 20 year old Astro feels, handles and sounds better then the new crap they make today.
The seats in the Astro vans are so comfy. I have been in a lot of vehicles, and they are not as comfy, and roomy as the Astro. My nieces LOVE riding in my van, they always complain about the Tesla and how cramped it is and how they get headaches all the time. But once they got into my 30 year old van, they fell in love with the Astro!
Astros are THE BEST!