(first posted 8/10/2011)
“Memo to Chevrolet Product Planning from GM Central Committee, January 1984: Gentlemen, it appears that Chrysler has stumbled upon something with its Hail Mary minivan. Poor, desperate, stupid Chrysler. They jerry-rigged a K car and actually hit on an idea. Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in a while. Although we are still not sure that these are really necessary, if this is what people want, our Astro/Safari program will give them a real one. Our mini-van must be bigger and more powerful, which is what people REALLY want. How hard can it be to make a minivan?”
I made this memo up, of course, but it seems that this is exactly what went through the minds of GM product planners during the gestation period of the Chevrolet Astro. As was becoming a habit, GM couldn’t have been more wrong.
It is familiar history that when Chrysler introduced the minivan in 1984, we were all introduced to a new concept – the small car-based van. Although there had been many people-moving variations on small commercial vans in the past, nobody before Chrysler designed a vehicle with the utility of a van and the driving ease and comfort of a passenger car. This was some new thinking in response to CAFE and the high fuel prices that were fresh in everyone’s memory. The question faced by everyone else in the auto industry was this: Was the Chrysler concept really an answer to a question that nobody had considered but that everyone would be asking? Or was Chrysler’s minivan a desperate company’s doomed attempt to build a small van off of an unsuitable platform because it was the only one available? GM went with the second option.
Vans had become very popular in the 1970s, but were limited in their appeal due to their large size and truck-like ride and handling. After 1979, their fuel-guzzling ways began the vehicles’ slow demise. So, for engineers and product planners steeped in the old paradigms, the 1985 Astro almost designed itself. Take all the features of the popular Chevy van and make it 25% smaller. The unit structure was a clean sheet design, to which the engineers attached a subframe with a front suspension largely borrowed from the B body station wagon. Although the Iron Duke 4 cylinder was offered, the mainstay would be the 4.3 liter Vortec V6, which was itself 3/4 of the venerable 350 V8.
The 1985 Astro (and its twin, the GMC Safari) turned out to be everything that the Caravan/Voyager was not. It was larger, came with V6 power and a traditional rear drive platform, and had a substantially higher tow and payload capacity (it was rated to tow up to 6,000 pounds vs. 2,000 for the Chrysler twins). In short, instead of a minivan, it was a mini-Van.
This distinction was not lost on Lee Iacocca, who drove the point home in a confrontational 1985 print ad. Although Chrysler was making the hard hits in its advertising, it needn’t have: The Caravan and Voyager continued to be the Magic Wagon by hitting a real sweet spot in the marketplace, and the Astro would never give it a serious challenge. Once the sales numbers started to roll in, GM hit the reset button and started work on a passenger car-based minivan to finally put that upstart Chrysler back in its place.
Sales and production figures are hard to come by on these, but a January 19, 1994 article from the Baltimore Sun indicated that Chrysler’s share of the minivan market was 48% in 1992, while the GM vans reached 24%. The problem was that this figure included both this vehicle AND the dustbuster triplets (Lumina APV, Trans Sport and Silhouette), then in their third year. Worse, Chrysler could have sold more but for capacity constraints.
Our younger readers may not have any idea how humiliating this must have been to GM. In the early 1980s, GM was the 800 pound gorilla of the U.S. auto industry. The Chevrolet Division had a dealer network second to none, and was the beneficiary of the widespread belief (particularly in the middle 2/3 of the U.S.) that nobody built a vehicle as well as GM did. For Chrysler to overcome a much smaller dealer network and a 25 year reputation for inferior quality and bad resale value and STILL outsell GM’s offering (and by a lot) must have been seen as the car industry’s equivalent of Barney Fife administering a beat down to Hulk Hogan.
A funny thing happened, though. As with the Suburban that was beginning to catch fire in the mid ’80s, the Astro/Safari sort of backed into a small but significant niche. Although never really competitive with Chrysler’s concept of a minivan, the Astro and Safari became a steady seller to those who needed most of the capability of a large van or Suburban but in a more compact size. As both a passenger and a cargo vehicle, this little truck was built for 21 model years with but a single significant refresh in 1995.
The Astro reminds me of the GM B body in a lot of ways. First, it was a solid, durable vehicle. The inherent goodness of the Chevrolet small block V8 came through the translation into Vortec pretty much intact. The structure was reasonably solid, and these were quite resistant to corrosion (much moreso than the big Chevy van or the competing Aerostar). There are still a lot of these on the road. I found both of these very nice examples within days of each other. This little van became almost Ford-like in its long life with basically zero investment from its maker. It is virtually impossible to distinguish an ’85 from a ’94. The blue one is probably a ’93 or ’94 due to the steering wheel with an airbag. The gray one – who knows? – although the ABS badge on the rear probably puts it into the early 90s.
We cannot ignore the Astro’s one glaring weakness, real or perceived – the 1996 crash test from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Let’s just say that the vehicle did not do well. But in fairness, there were very few vehicles tested in the mid 1990s that had been designed to truck standards of the early ’80s. The test result did the Astro no favors, but the little truck still managed to hang around for another 9 model years (through 2005).
The Astro became GM’s first failed attempt to go man on man with the Chrysler minivan. But still, GM’s approach was not an unreasonable one in 1985 when the target had not really come into focus yet. The Astro was both a unique vehicle and a good one that charmed a lot of owners over its many years. There are a lot of these still out in daily service where most of the other contemporary minivans (including the Chryslers) have all but disappeared. The Astro was a failure as a minivan, but had a long and successful career as a little-big van. I wonder if Lee Iacocca would be so hard on it now?
A perfect CC for the next questions.
Is the name “minivan” only used for people movers ? Or also for cargo vans ?
Are there also midivans and maxivans ?
A bit further up Paul posted a photo of a full-size Chevy van. I must say though that it still looks pretty small (its dimensions) to me.
It’s a name that’s impossible to nail down perfectly.
Essentially, the Astro replaced the short wheelbase versions of the “full size vans”. That became its role. All the Big 3 dropped their swb full-sized vans; Ford essentially replaced it with the Aerostar; Chrysler with their “mini-vans”.
The better name for the Astro would be “midi-van”.
“Memo to Chevrolet Product Planning from GM Central Committee, January 1984:”
I know it’s a joke, but GM didn’t just “whip up” the Astro in 6 months. [Just like the myth that Ford whipped up the Mustang II ‘overnight’ in reaction to the 1st Oil Crisis.] GM knew the Caravans were coming and green-lit the Astro a lot sooner, it takes a lot longer than 6 months to fully design a truck/car, even if using existing platform.
We had one for a company sh*t hauler. Had this weird three door tailgate that I neither understood nor cared for. I think it was a V-6? All that mattered was the A/C worked. I found it to be not horrible, which is the top of the line in my experience with GM since 1974.
There was a pop top camper based on the Astro, would work for me, with rear wheel drive I could tow my boat, bring a Honda 90 on a front bumper mount and be happy toolin’ around, camping at NW lakes. Man in my neighborhood bought a nice one for $6,000. Have seen several tatty pop tops. Well used, but still motoring.
I remember seeing these tailgates at Auto Show and they were called “Dutch Doors”.
Not a credible competitor to the Caravan, of course, as stated. I’ve ridden in several civilian-trim Astros and all were bouncy, noisy, truck-like affairs with imperfect ergonomics. But they make a damn good work vehicle with the 4.3/RWD.
Also, no matter how badly you treat an Astro, they’re quite hard to kill. A friend owned one that had over 200K miles on it when I first encountered it, and while it was battered, rattly, and made threatening noises with regular frequency, it just kept running. He eventually traded it in on a much newer car but even then it still ran with over 230K miles. A current co-worker also has one, a passenger version as well, from somewhere late in the model run (’97 or ’98 I think?). His has over 270K miles on it and runs like a top. There’s something to be said for a 4.3 on a basic, well-sorted chassis when durability is the goal.
Were the front ends really B-body based or A/G body? I remember my dad had one at is shop for a few years as a cheaper to drive alternative to the full size vans they normally used. It always ate brakes and front end parts – like they were undersize for the job.
Probably still running on in defiance, though.
love my 2000 Astro LS. over 200k miles, virtually neglected on service and still hauls ass, literally and figuratively. the customization possibilities are endless, it’s all just steel with a bit of plastic cladding and bumper covering. i hear front end suspension goes quick (the clunking on hard turns tells me an upper control arm is in my Astro’s immediate future), but it is a beast and, despite pretty basic body styling on both the 1st gen and even moreso the 2nd gen with it’s vertical (rather than slanted) front clip, they have that hold-over aesthetic appeal of the ’70s Vanduras and G-series, but in a manageable daily driver design. won’t drive anything else!
I just bought my fourth a 99 with a 169000 miles on it for 500 dollars, in good shape fully loaded, but 5000 in it including a trans job, it runs really well and has AWD, they are highly sought after by contractors and tradesman
GARY…I’m looking at a 2001 Astro with 221,000 miles. It supposed to have been regularly serviced but never a new transmission. I see you did $5000 worth of work incl. a trans. Can you tell me what you encountered? I’m trying to get a picture of what my future repairs will be if i buy it. Or if anyone can step in here I’d appreciate it. I’m going on a 4 month, 10,000 mile trip in the USA and need it to last that long as a rental would cost too much. Thx
KP sorry for the delay getting back to you, I had to do the transmission because it had a slipping torque converter which gave me a check engine light, in New Jersey a check engine light will fail you for inspection, it needed an exhaust system tires etc, it runs great now, but it needs a radiator because I drive a lot and far from home, I am going to redo the cooling system including a brand new Delco water pump while it’s apart even though it has no issues. Also they tend to go through fuel pumps about every 80 to 90 thousand miles.
They are really good durable vehicles, please let me know if I can be of further help.
Thanks Gary. I read that the Astro radiators post mid 80’s have plastic components that guarantee planned obsolescence. I remember reading about a quiet automaker meeting where they made the mental switch from proud durability to cheap parts so you’d buy more in the end. They beefed up the advertising to give us brand loyalty so we’d return to them, then chop blocked us. Seems like the whole manufacturing industry followed suit. Anyway, someone recommended an all-metal radiator like they used to have. I’m concerned about the cooling system since I’m taking a big trip around the States and will be in the humid, hot regions for a few months, putting lots of miles on. The other thing I’m wary of is that a lot of people tell about the rough ride if anyone is in the back. I will be only using the rear bench over the axle for the occasional passenger. Have you ever concerned yourself with different shocks and tires for a smoother ride, and if so do you have recommendations?
I always thought GM marketed these as a smaller van, not a minivan. The Chrysler minivan is great for moving people and the occasional bulky item. The Astro is great for hauling stuff, and the ocassional load of people. I still see these Astros plugging along with contractors, small plumbing outfits, and flower delivery. The Astro fits in parking garages where full size vans don’t. I see them at vintage races too, usually pulling old formula v cars. GM didn’t really didn’t compete with the Caravan, they saw a different use for a similar size vehicle. The Astro can pick little Jimmy up at school and tow the jet ski.
This sums up the Astro about as well as anything. It was a small commercial van that could see occasional civilian use, whereas the Mopar was a civilian minivan that could see occasional cargo hauling. The terrible ergonomics of the Astro is exactly the sort of thing fleets look for, i.e., they’re marketed to the people who buy them, not drive them.
I’ve ridden in a friend’s heavily-loaded 2003 Astro passenger-van. Horrible engine access (a deal-killer for me) and of course NO foot-room. The seats are reasonably comfortable, (though he’a replaced the driver’s seat a couple times) and the basic engine & tranny have held up OK. But he’s had many problems with the suspension, cooling-system, fuel-system and GM’s nightmare electronics – audio, ABS/ESC, power-locks etc…
More frustrating – he got heavy-duty rear springs off a salvage-yard Astro cargo-van with rear drums. Then discovered that GM inexplicably modified his disc-brake rear-axle so the cargo-springs won’t bolt on!
Happy Motoring, Mark
Nine years after the original post, and 15+ after the last Astro/Safari was made, I *still* see plenty of these plying their daily trades, here in The Land That Rust Forgot™.
Lately, though, it seems like the tradespeople have beaten most of the cargo versions to death, so they’ve taken to buying the passenger/conversion vans, literally spray painting the windows black, and presumably gutting the interiors.
My utility company loved the Astro’s. New 86’s, after an ice storm, zooming across the parking lot with front brakes locked and back wheels turning (high idle) to bang into a brick wall. Here comes another! Driver with arms straight out and foot mashing the brake pedal……..bang! Three in all before they managed to get the remainder to stay put. It turned out there wasn’t enough rear brake power to stop the rear wheels when on icy surfaces with the vehicle in high idle. I thought they were decent vehicles and my mom pulled a small camper with one.
Yes, GM could have been and was more wrong–enter the “dustbusters”!!! When i was building vans, you could hardly make a template for an Astro that would work on 2 different vans. Not good.
Stop beating up on this van!! General Motors got it right with the Astro. The cargo van version of the Astro was hugely successful with contractors and other commercial users. It was the small commercial van of choice over Aerostar and Caravan C/V. The only reality to GM getting it wrong with this vehicle was when they stopped building the commercial version Astro.
What I am saying is not opinion. I owned a leasing company and almost 100% of my business was leasing commercial vehicles to contractors (electrical, telecommunication, HVAC, security, plumbing, etc.) I leased more full size vans than small vans but there was a huge market for smaller vans like Astro and all of the 100’s of contractors who I leased these Astro Cargo vans to would have nothing else. Reliable, space efficient, decent payload and better looking than any of the competition.
Stop beating up on this van!!
Agreed; we will stop. Actually we already did that in several more recent posts that were much more appreciative of the Astro’s enduring qualities.
The issue that this articles addresses is comparing it directly to the Chrysler minivans. Clearly as a compact efficient people mover, they were superior. But the Astro was obviously superior as a commercial vehicle, as well as for those families that wanted towing capacity and certain other qualities.
The Astro has had the last laugh, as it’s still quite in demand in the current vanlife era. Good luck finding an AWD version; they’re red-hot. I see a lot more Astros on the street than similar-vintage Caravans.
I didn’t think I was beating it up – I came to appreciate it as I wrote this all those years ago.
It was only a failure in the main part of the minivan market that Chrysler first exploited and then commanded, and the respective sales figures show it. However (and this is big) it found a niche where the Chrysler was wholly unsuited and did really well there for a long time. The buyers who needed more brawn (be they tradesmen or families who towed things) found that these hit the spot. And nobody disputes that they were tough old things – far moreso than the Chryslers.
Having worked on the Astro/Safari vans and later had them in the fleet I managed it was another GM vehicle that suffered from a half baked ideas.
The over all concept was fine for what it was, a 3/4 scale work van.
Early ones suffered from the infamous 700R4 transmission debacle.
Early ones suffered head gasket failures due to a new head gasket design.
Early ones suffered from A/C compressor drive belt failures.
Once GM fixed this stuff in 1992 they thru in the wacky CPI fuel injection system. The Single fuel injector, fuel lines and fuel nozzles were INSIDE the intake manifold. Got a nozzle that’s plugged? Pull everything off the top of the intake manifold, take the top of the manifold and now you have access. Oh by the way the whole system has to be replaced, no separate serviceable parts available. Later they updated the system to individual injectors but still inside the manifold. They used this system on V8’s also. Boy you should have seen some customers reaction to the repair estimates.
You can read about this system here:
https://www.underhoodservice.com/gmc-chevy-light-truck-central-port-fuel-injection-diagnosis/
We bought these because they were the only 4 wheel drive vans available. They were handy for servicing radio tower sites.
…nobody before Chrysler designed a vehicle with the utility of a van and the driving ease and comfort of a passenger car. ..
Well, no one except Volkswagen (Microbus) and GM (Corvair Greenbrier) and Ford (Falcon Econoline) and Chrysler (Dodge A100). But OK, other than those…
“the driving ease and comfort of a passenger car”
You missed the “comfort” part of that sentence. 🙂
Almost all retail buyers chose the Country Squire over the Econoline for a reason. I will give you the Microbus, but then it was only as easy to drive and comfortable as a VW – which was a whole different thing from a traditional American passenger car.
The Astro/Safari, in addition to being a deathtrap, is also a penalty box. Unless the driver’s left leg ends at the knee, there’s noplace to put it—so eventually your left foot winds up under the brake pedal. There’s a long list of other sturdy reason these turds are very disagreeable, and I’m glad they are disappearing from the roads.
Now let’s see if the readable-size version of Chrysler’s brash ad will attach to this post:
I had to laugh when I saw the ad you posted! “You can wear a hat while driving one”. Wow! Shades of K T Keller? That was amusing.
I took delivery of a 1986 GMC Safari on October 4, 1985 and drove it until mid-May of 1999. I retired it with 318,000 miles on the odometer and a spun main bearing. While the GMC Safari/Chevy Astro did not compete in the minivan market with the Chrysler minivans, it did have a following as has been noted. Mine was an eight-passenger model painted burgundy with matching red velour interior. It was also loaded. It was indeed a small truck. It carried a load, it traveled well, and it had pep. With three quarters of a 350 V8 but the accessories of the 350 including water pump, it was bound to last. One Safari owner worked filling vending machines at rest areas along an interstate highway. In less than three years he accumulated 600,000 miles on the engine. GM made him an offer to switch out the engine because they wanted to study it for durability. Unmentioned in the owner’s manual is that in case of catastrophic oil pressure loss, the engine shut down. Having a flat floor from front to rear was great for travel. We bought durable nylon suitcases for each of our three children that fit right under the seats. Funny stuff was the day when I purchased several cantaloupes. On the way home I had to suddenly brake. The cantaloupes rolled out of the plastic bag in the load area and rolled all the way to the front of the Safari. It is true that the vehicle needed a left footrest. I missed that. I am 5’ 6” tall or was at the time of ownership of the Safari, so leg room for me was adequate. Entrance required stepping on the step well plate, which is normal, and then swinging into the driver’s seat. My wife at 4’, 10” found it easy to ingress and egress. That driver’s seat was a captain’s chair with dual armrests! Visibility was excellent. Touring was a delight and for daily use in my work selling commercial application trucks it was good for keeping a sizeable plastic file for my records between the two front seats. The vehicle had what was determined to be an “itch.” To wit, the plant in Delaware built these vehicles so well that the dash pieces would rub one against the other until time went by. Do I miss this vehicle? You bet that I do! The ergonomics were excellent, so controls were easy to access. The GM successor minivan for the Chevy-Pontiac-Oldsmobile nameplates was goofy with a difficult windshield to clean on the inside. I still see non-passenger versions of the Safari and Astro running around. Incidentally, I wore out two automatic speed control units and replaced them each time. That is more because I use this device all the time.
This is easily my favorite series on CC.
“Although never really competitive with Chrysler’s concept of a minivan, the Astro and Safari became a steady seller to those who needed most of the capability of a large van or Suburban but in a more compact size.”
If you need to haul or tow but don’t need a full-size van, truck or SUV, the Astro is just about your best option, with the Ford Aerostar a fairly close 2nd (I used to own a ’96) IF you can find a decent one & get the correct replacement parts for it. I highly doubt you’ll ever see a Chrysler Pacifica, Honda Odyssey, Kia Sedona, or Toyota Sienna pulling an 18-ft car trailer even unloaded–they weren’t designed for that type of job. With the correct hitch setup my ’05 Astro pulls it like a dream. The 4.3 Vortec may be underpowered by modern standards but it still gets the job done without skipping a beat; low-end torque isn’t absent by any means. You get a LOT more room for your money compared to a Suburban too, not to mention on a considerably shorter wheelbase!
A friend had a used ’03 Astro for several years. While the basic engine & tranny held up OK, it was a money-pit, with constant electrical, cooling system & body hardware problems.
Access to anything underhood was horrible. As to the lack of room for the driver’s left foot, the front passenger footwell must have been designed for double amputees!
He liked it, but Last winter it was totalled. The one or two decent Astro/Safari vans he saw were way too expensive. So he replaced it with an ’05 Buick LeSabre, which has started to nickel & dime him, But at least it’s far more comfortable and easy to work on
Happy Motoring, Mark.
The Astro was the best midivan. It was the right size for a lot of business applications. It just was not a van for a family. The advantage of the Chrysler’s was that they were low to the ground and children could get I think it easily. Lee Iacocca designed one at Ford years earlier but it was not produced. The Chrysler was the right product at the right time. But the quality was not there. They had a lot of transmission problems.
A friend of mine had the Chevy Lumina Dustbuster. The driving position was awful. It was like you were driving from the back seat. My brother bought the Windstar and it was a quality problem. He didn’t keep it long. My sister is short and ejected some of the larger vans. She bought the Mercury Villager and it was a great vehicle. It was based on the Nissan Maxima platform. She kept it for many years. Both my brother and sister eventually replaced their vehicles with Honda Odyssey’s. Honda (and Toyota) really got the concept right.
Well I grew up in the Astro. And to me it is THE BEST vehicle out there. And I have driven other vehicles of all types. But everything about the Astro fits me so perfectly.
And for those complaining about the foot room… I realy dont get it. The full size vans had the same design and the design was not for you to spread your legs out like Bambie on ice. Your to but your feet down in front of you…
I have owned my Astro for 28 years and growing. This van has towed a 5,500lbs travel trailer up into the rocky mountains. It has towed boats, and vehicles, and utility trailers. To this day it has well over 340,000 miles on all original motor, trans, axle, steering, rear end. And is my daily driver. I have taken it off roading. I have stuffed the van with engines, tractors, motor bikes, coaches, beds… i could go on…
And even after all that my van has been through, it still rides and handles better then the brand new Ford Transits. My husband owns a 2001 Astro cargo, and for work he is a fleet manager. He buys and drives brand new, vehicles everyday. And at the end of the day, gets into his over 20 year old Astro van and heads home. And he comes home and says that his over 20 year old Astro feels, handles and sounds better then the new crap they make today.
The seats in the Astro vans are so comfy. I have been in a lot of vehicles, and they are not as comfy, and roomy as the Astro. My nieces LOVE riding in my van, they always complain about the Tesla and how cramped it is and how they get headaches all the time. But once they got into my 30 year old van, they fell in love with the Astro!
Astros are THE BEST!