(first posted 5/30/2013) For years–nay, decades, Oldsmobile made its bones on three primary cars: The 88, the Ninety-Eight, and the Cutlass. This secret formula of comfort, style and attainability served them well for close to forty years. But around 1990, the party had seriously hit the skids. This Regency Brougham is one of the last pre-crash Oldses to be designed.
The shrunken Ninety-Eight (’85 CC here) was not near as imposing as the earlier 1980-84 model (CC here), but it sold quite well, despite some quality issues on early models. But by 1987, this was a solid, comfortable car.
Ford may have mocked the mini C-bodies in their Town Car ads (and it was a great commercial), but plenty of folks liked them, especially in the Midwest.
image: imcdb.org
Indeed, it might well have been the Midwestern W126, as far as popularity and prestige went. The Coen Brothers’ great film Fargo was right on the money with both Jerry Lundegaard and his father-in-law Wade Gustafson driving Ninety-Eights. For many professional people in this region, a Caddy or Lincoln was seen as gauche–think Al Czervik. In Minneapolis, this was the car to be seen in. Too bad Wade wouldn’t be seen in his for much longer, thanks to his idiot son-in-law. Oh, geez…
1985 was the last really excellent year Olds had. The CS and CS Brougham coupes still sold well, but after 1988 with the Cutlass Supreme Classic, the RWD midsizer would disappear, and with it, most of Oldsmobile’s bread and butter. The Calais was not the hit Olds hoped it would be, the Firenza was a non-starter, and the final nail in the coffin was most likely the disastrous “not your father’s Oldsmobile” campaign.
I’d loved to have sat in on that meeting: “Hey, I know! Let’s piss off our loyal customers in order to appeal to kids who wouldn’t be caught dead in an Olds showroom!” “OK.” “Sounds good.” “Let’s do it.” Idiots.
Despite all the trouble, and Oldsmobile’s descent into annihilation, these Ninety-Eights and their related H-body 88 cousins sold well. The treasurer of my dad’s company had an ’89 Regency Brougham (it replaced an ’86 Parisienne), and so did our neighbors two doors down. All the room and ride of the pricier Electra and de Ville, and only a small step down in prestige: A winning combination, at least until the ’91 model replaced it. While the ’91 Park Avenue was svelte and downright sexy for a big Buick, the Olds lost a bit in translation, though I like them myself (CC here).
Despite the best efforts of Olds manager John Rock–who had a spine!–and new products like the Aurora and Intrigue, GM still saw fit to kill off Oldsmobile shortly after the Oughts began. This was the single biggest thing to make me start hating GM. Those idiots! I loved Oldsmobiles!
I had never owned one, but I had relatives and friends who did and I always liked them. They were a part of the landscape, especially in the Quad Cities. It was comforting to see them in traffic, and seeing new ones all shined up in front of Zimmerman in Rock Island or V.J. Neu in Davenport. And now they’re gone. But not this one!
I found this Regency Brougham in late February. That day, a gigantic storm was on the way, and I was running a few last-minute errands before it hit. I saw those lacy-spoke wheels and knew I had to stop, storm or no storm. This one had a little bit of rust, but was pretty solid.
These final-facelift 1989-90 Regency Broughams are my favorite of the 1985-90 generation, especially with no whitewalls and these alloy wheels. Though I’d prefer maroon or navy blue, this one still looks good in white over red, and, I’m sure, is still reliable wheels for its owner.
For many owners the 3800 was the engine that for them had the “power of an 8” with “the fuel economy of a 6.” This generation of H-body is usually where I consider the 3800s reputation to have begun.
However, for my money, I’d still rather have a 1992-1999 H-body. Although the only ones that are left seem to be LeSabres.
I don’t know if even I can overstate how solid the LN3 and LG7 (3300) have proven to be.
They make the later Series II look like a Northstar by comparison.
Yes they were my 90 TS and my current 93 Century wagon with nearly 300K are testament to that. Find any 3300/3800 equipped car in decent shape and you can keep it around nearly forever.
The H-body is one of those cars where the Buick-Olds versions were better than the Cadillac on the same platform. For substantially less money, you got a better engine in the perfected 3800 and you got more progressive/less cartoonish styling, particularly well showed up by this car’s blackwalls-and-alloys spec with no vinyl top. Well worth giving up the Cadillac name.
I like your comment on the styling. 🙂
As I’ve made it clear before, I have a deep emotional connection to Oldsmobiles. I share your frustration at GM for killing Olds when there were much better options to save money.
My grandfather owned a 1992 Ninety-Eight (It’s my profile picture if anyone can make it out). It had a red velour interior very similar to the pictures. The last redesigned ones were a little awkward looking, but I appreciate them for their uniqueness, as well as the personal sentimentality.
I do pass a navy blue ’89-’90 Ninety-Eight Regency Brougham not to far away from my house often. It’s usually in the owner’s garage, but sometimes in the driveway, so I slow down to look at it. The owner keeps it pampered.
I agree and share your Olds connection & GM frustration along with Tom’s. And it seems this generation of 3800s were just bulletproof as principaldan alluded to.
These are handsome cars with a minimum amount of pudgy curves and still retain “the Oldsmobile look”. I appreciate the instrument cluster with its sweep speedometer and optional gauge package.
The Touring Sedan is my favorite 80’s sedan (along with the 6000 SE/STE) and is on my list-of-vehicles-to-acquire. Olds went to a lot of trouble to make these cars special.. CraigNC will hopefully chime in with some factoids & pics.
I knew an elderly couple who had a 98 Holiday Coupe of this vintage with the cross lace aluminum wheels, landau roof, and mythical FE3 suspension badge on the trunk. Deep navy blue with matching vinyl top and interior. The icing on the cake was a light grey pinstripe down the body sides at the top of the fenders and along the window sill. Flipping gorgeous and only driven by the husband to church on Sunday (he was a farmer and drove tractors/trucks on a daily basis) and the wife grocery shopping and to the beauty salon.
They outlived the vehicle however but for the life of me I can’t remember what car replaced it.
For me, this car always embodied everything that was wrong with GM during this time. All of their cars looked exactly the same, and looked to be designed by amateurs even after the 70s bloatmobiles they had been issuing.
The next-door neighbors had one of these, bought it new. I rode in it once. It at once made me feel claustrophobic and like I was in a fishbowl. I actually preferred my Renault Alliance to this.
Jim
You had a Renault Alliance?! How did it treat you?
Why, read all about it here!
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/cars-of-a-lifetime/coal-1983-renault-alliance-mt-the-appliance/
“…The next-door neighbors had one of these, bought it new. I rode in it once. I actually preferred my Renault Alliance.”
Are you feeling all right, Jim? Perhaps you need to seek psychiatric help. Make sure he prescribes a LARGE dose of medications. Good luck. I’ll be rooting for you. 🙁
“It at once made me feel claustrophobic and like I was in a fishbowl.”
Huh? Compared to an Alliance? Where did you ride? In the trunk? An Alliance could fit inside of one of these!
I’m guessing he was riding in the back seat. The photo of the rear seat above tells the tale. GM’s vertical back window obsession ruined an entire generation of their cars for me.
Yes but allowed for superb rear seat headroom. I owned and loved this generation of 98. We had a ’90 Regency, it was a superb family car.
Ive known a few happy 98 owners through the years. Most where happy with them and ran the mileage up to well over 300k km and regularly seen 28-30 mpg. Those reports and a comfortable neat (aranged well) looking interior have always made me want to own one. Every now and then I’ll check the local and neibouring provences to see if any clean low mileage one are avaliable. This being the super rust belt that it is most I come across have rust issues withe the suspension its hard points or have been without matenence and in need of a tranmission or some other part that does not justify keeping them on the road. I’ll still keep looking cause I sill want one of these CC’s. Or a Buick t type ( the kinda sporty one that I cant recall the name of) would do as well.
Wow, a backseat in a large sedan that can accommodate actual adult humans! Radical concept, hope it catches on.
Early in my career one of my fellow young engineers had the Brougham coupe which he had bought new. It disgusted me on several levels:
-I found it extremely brougham-y and looked like an old man’s car.
-He drove it spiritedly, and it was peppy but wallowy and very nose heavy, and devoured front brakes.
-The interior, and indeed the whole car was styled as a love song to rectangles.
The same guy also had an MGA, so maybe he really wanted something that was cushy, warm, dry and fast. I preferred the MGA..
Funny, I snagged a couple shots of this generation Olds around town last week, too. This one, because it illustrates size creep of the Kia next it–and how downsized the Olds was–both in one shot.
Here’s the other I came across in the high school parking lot.
Wow – that shot shows quite well how today’s cars have grown not so much in length, but in sheer bulk. The Kia looks like it dwarfs the olds, and yet the dimensions are fairly similar, with the optima actually smaller.
Kia optima (2011+):
Length 190.7 in
Width 72.2 in
Height 57.3 in
Olds 98 (1989–1990):
Length 196.3 in
Width 72.6 in
Height 54.8 in
The Olds appears lower to the ground than normal. Newer cars like the Optima also tend to have much higher trunks than cars of the Ninety-Eight’s vintage and older.
A more interesting comparison would be interior measurements. Personal space was more valuable on these cars than on the newer cars. The Kia is probably strictly 4 passenger and with the curvaceous lines looks a lot larger than the interior volumes attest. The C&H cars were the pinnacle of space utilization at the time. Plus buyers then preferred the conservative designs. Its when Olds started going space age when things started to go awry.
The exterior size of the 1988-90 Olds 98 was almost similar to that of the 1975-79 Oldsmobile Omega and 1980-87 Oldsmobile Cutlass/Cutlass Supreme (albeit a “hairline” longer)
1975-79 Oldsmobile Omega:
Length 199.6″
Width 72.7″
Height 53.6″
1980-87 Oldsmobile Cutlass/Cutlass Supreme
Length 200.1″
Width 71.8″
Height 54.6″
I always liked these, whether in Buick or Olds trim. A huge car in a smaller package.
A sales rep in my first box company got one of these shortly after they came out and it was a real pleasure to ride in on a road sales trip or around town. 85 mph on the highway felt like nothing, and it really hurt to have to slow down to 55 mph when that was the national speed limit in those days.
My only beef was GM’s “half-way down” back door window mentality…
+1 Zackman.
My parents had one of these, ’89 with red leather, GORGEOUS! And very roomy, with peppy engine. I once got 29.5 MPG driving it on an extended trip with the cruise control pegged to the speed limit on the interstate.
The big flaw was the made-by-Mattel dashboard. I consider GM really shot themselves in the foot with that. What part of the car does the guy or gal with the payment book see ALL THE TIME? The dasboard, of course!
I understand that the 3.8 litre “Buick” V6 in these was changed; the 1990 MY engine is different than the one in the 1989.
Is this true?
The 3.8 in the C&H cars evolved a couple of times.
The initial 3.8 V6 available in MY1985 C Buick and Oldsmobile was multiport fuel injected but utilized a distributor and V-belts. It developed around 125hp. The 1985 version was a lot closer in design to the old 3.8V6 with the addition of fuel injection.
For 1986, two enhanced motors were introduced. A VIN B version for the Buick and Oldsmobile C bodies with flat tappet lifters and a VIN 3 version for the H bodies with roller lifters. The engine got distributor less ignition with a coil pack and module and sequential fuel injection. The engine also got a revised front cover with a gearotor oil pump instead of a traditional one. The engine also adopted a serpentine belt arrangement.
For 1988, a VIN C version was introduced with a balance shaft and some other improvements. Its relatively easy to tell the various 3.8s apart visually as the earliest ones used a distributor, the VIN B&3 used center bolt valve covers and had a red 6 decal on the top of the intake. VIN C 3.8s displayed a 3800 embossed in the intake as well as the introduction of a beauty cover.
1991 brought a tuned port version easily identified by a black intake with individual intake runners. The intake was metal on this version, and also brought us supercharged versions.
1996 brought us Series II models with the infamous plastic intake but otherwise quite an improvement in other areas.
A Series III was introduced for MY2003 with a metal intake once again and that was the engine that lasted until the end in 2008.
Aside from the intake issue on some model years (easily correctable) the drivetrain was solid and was the #1 passenger car engine for GM as far as warranty claims was concerned.
Hi CraiginNC,
Thanks for the interesting extended answer.
I can understand people not liking the “half way down” rear window out of personal preference, but since few actually sit in the rear it surprises me how much this kind of comment continues to circulate. It was done that way for safety reasons, mainly so that children could not climb out. It was not done because of some ulterior motive like when the A cars were introduced with non opening rear windows for 1978.
It’s a contradiction. Here we have a car designed entirely with space utilization in mind, that can comfortably seat 5-6 adults, yet the rear windows are justified in their inability to roll completely down because “few actually sit in the rear”.
I’m not criticizing the H body or GM specifically, as every sedan from the era I’ve been in has halfway windows, but I never understood why there wasn’t some kind of user override like for safety locks.
I thought the rear windows going down was more of a function of the relatively low beltline of the car. Which is actually a good thing – compared with today’s high beltline/small windows, which make it a bit more claustrophobic inside.
I think you’re right — if you look at the door itself and follow the path the window takes, it cannot physically lower all the way down into the door. If those dummies at GM didn’t put rear wheels on the car it wouldn’t be an issue.
I prefer the low beltline with visibility over the cavelike blob styling. I find it funny that people complain about this — how often are they rear seat passengers anyway?
Hi Tom,
The Lincoln valet ad you want is this one:
Thanks; fixed it for Tom.
Much obliged 🙂
As soon as I saw this car I was thinking “Fargo”. Nice you picked up on that, it’s part of Olds history.
Jerry Lundegaard: “Well, we’ve never done this before. But seeing as it’s special circumstances and all, he says I can knock a hundred dollars off that Trucoat.”
Irate Customer: [stunned that Jerry still intends to charge him for something he didn’t order] “One hundred… You lied to me, Mr. Lundegaard. You’re a bald-faced liar. A… &*$%ing liar.”
Irate Customer: [to his wife, frustrated] “Where’s my !@#$%&* checkbook? Let’s get this over with.”
Da Heck Ya Mean?!?!?
I love the way the customer hesitates over the F-word in that scene, as if he’d never dared to utter it before. Great movie.
How many times a day do you suppose this scene is replicated in real life? (No offense to our resident car salesmen)
I’ve always liked these (haven’t we already had a CC on these — it feels like I’ve commented on one before?) Anyway, there are a couple on Ebay right now, including this convertible conversion. I want to hate it but it actually looks better than I could have imagined…..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-Convertible-Regency-Brougham-Car-Craft-Conversion-Leather-Fully-Loaded-/111080660955?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19dcec5fdb
I had a ’90 Olds 88 for seven years (93-00). I loved that car. I miss it still. It was a nice riding car, had adequate power, and was a great family car. It was also a very reliable car. In seven years I made no major repairs to it. I had to replace one coil pack, and the battery.
I miss Oldsmobile.
Even though I can see how boring and dull this car must have been when it came out, today the design looks nice, simple and timeless, with the airy greenhouse,3 box design and compact size. However, I feel that if I were around in the mid 80s I would have wanted a true full sized caprice or a brougham instead of this downsized stuff.
I loved them from the start, even though I also liked the older model. They seem at least as roomy inside as the RWD cars. Of course, I was in high school when these came out — not exactly the target market! By the way, I do think the 98s and Electras were a bit easier for people to swallow than the DeVilles and especially Fleetwoods.
It would have been interesting and probably not that expensive for GM to keep one divisional “big car” the other 2 divisions at least, like it did with the Chevrolet Caprice and Cadillac Brougham.
Just as a catch all for the buyers that refused to switch or downsize, a RWD 1985 Oldsmobile “Regency” and Buick “Limited”, based on the 1984 98 and Electra. Or even ones based on the 88 and LeSabre
Buick sort of did this when it brought back the Roadmaster in 1992 and sold it alongside the Park Avenue.
The RWD LeSabre and 88 did continue for 1985, but I know what you’re saying — it would have been nice to have an Olds and Buick alternative for 1986 and later. I bet a lot of dealers complained about that omission. Even Pontiac got the Parisienne in the US starting in 1983.
Pontiac got the Parisienne because 1) gas came down so big car sales improved); 2) it was still being produced in Canada for the Canadian market. It was not particularly difficult to Federalize it and with the Auto Pact importing it into the US was not expensive. You can tell this because the Parisienne (unlike the same size early Bonneville) is largely a rebadged Caprice while the Bonneville had a lot more unique styling features.
There were some complaints about missing a RWD car at Olds, but at the time, the FWD C&H bodies were very popular so it was thought that they were well accepted. The decline of Oldsmobile had less to do with the discrete move to FWD with the C&H cars, than other factors with the Cutlass, marketing attitude, and the lack of successful models besides those.
Well, at least they all kept the full size wagon going through 1990, I wonder if there ever was a H-body wago proposal?
CraiginNC, in your opinion, what do you feel was so wrong about the 1988 Cutlass Supreme, it was a very pretty car, in fact, all of the W-bodies, despite whatever other issues they may have had, were all very attractive cars, at least from my point of view. The W’s and the L-body Beretta/Corsica were the first of the “non-box” mainstream GM cars.
The RWD BOF Cutlass, long may she wave, was already pretty old by the mid 80’s considering it dated back to 1978. Yes there was a bucket seat version of the Cutlass, the International Series, but that was no different than the bucket seat Cutlass Calais or Salon, you could still get all sorts of red velour and bench seats on the mid level Cutlass Supreme SL(i.e Brougham).
You can point to the lack of a sedan at launch and that they were a bit underpowered using the MFI 2.8 V6 as negatives, but I really don’t see what was so offensive about the new 88 Cutlass that would have turned off so many people to Oldsmobile.
There was not much wrong with the W Cutlass per se mechanically. It was an awesome performer and quite competent. But so much about selling cars is about matching product to the target audience and the Cutlass and subsequent models started to go in a different direction and left customers behind. Oldsmobile customers loved Brougham-y and the new Cutlass neither appealed to the Brougham set nor the typically male buyer that liked the RWD personal coupe with T-Tops V8 etc. that was available. That coupled with the switch in advertising gimmick to the “Not Your Father’s Olds” “A New Generation Of Olds” there was a large disconnect between product actual and product perception in the marketplace at the time. It was like saying “your not hip anymore so go away.” and they did but no one came around to replace them.
Buick had a better go of it because they moved on from all of the T-Type models and emphasized traditional American styling cues and the marketing reflected it. A lot of Olds customers migrated to Buick in the early 1990s. Pontiac did the same by starting to emphasize sporty models first with the STE, then with the Grand Am, and then with the Bonneville SSE.
I remember 1986 being a tough year for Olds and Buick dealers. Chevy, Pontiac and Cadillac all had a full size RWD sedan with V8 power and all Olds and Buick had was a small FWD sedan with V6 only engine and a far smaller trunk. They did still have the wagons but I distinctly remember large sedan buyers going into Buick and Olds showrooms and being quite put off at first. After 1986 Only the Caprice and Brougham were left which must have made more than a few customers scratch there heads.
They sort of did that in their decision to delay the downsizing of the B cars by one year instead of doing them together with the C cars as they did in 1977. The 1985 Delta 88 Royal Brougham LS was created to utilize leftover Ninety Eight parts and also offer a stop gap model (ala Cadillac Brougham) to test the market. Given the runaway success of the downsized C models (at least in Buicks/Olds) there was enough confidence in the new models that there was no need to continue a RWD model. Cadillac’s FWD application was not as well received and given the continued operation of Clark Street the RWD Brougham was continued with the 307. While Olds continued to have a RWD wagon available through 1992, by the time the Roadmaster was greenlighted, Oldsmobile had gone full into “international” mode and it was felt that by introducing a RWD full size Oldsmobile would confuse the branding. The Aurora was originally scheduled for MY1993 (delayed due to cash flow issues) and it would have conflicted in the marketplace.
The Roadmaster worked well for Buick because by that time, Buick was marketed as the traditional American car brand and the designs of the LeSabre and Park Avenue reflected that. So it made sense for Buick to come out with a traditional American design car. Cadillac was moving away from that but the Brougham was popular enough to warrant continuing it. Since they were all built in Arlington it was cost effective.
An airy greenhouse is on my top 5 most missed design features these days. I’m tired of driving mobile igloos.
My last new Oldsmobile was a 1990 Touring Sedan. I had gotten into a habit of buying a car late its design cycle mainly for nostalgia reasons knowing changes were coming.
I will say this, my TS was probably the best all-around car that I have owned. I say that because while it is not as fast as my CTS, nor as plush as my Eldorado or Toronado, or as distinctively styled as my Eldorado, it did a lot of things well. It was styled conservatively enough to be attractive yet not in a baroque way like 70s cars, yet the design was modern enough to be efficient, space utilization was among the very best at the time, you could get your big car size and feel without really having a big car, the 3.8/440T4 drivetrain was bulletproof and quite lively, serviceability was a cinch, even today C&H cars, and the A&J cars for that matter, are very inexpensive on parts and not particularly challenging mechanically. The TS was equipped with very nice leather bucket seats, console grip shifter, real burled walnut, and the car was very well put together. A thoroughly enjoyable drive for every day situations. So much I kept it nearly 10 years and almost 175K until someone boosted it and returned it to me in a less than desirable condition.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1987-Touring-Sedan.jpg
Mine was maroon and always looked attractive with the new style finned wheels. If I found one today in good condition and low miles I would buy it. I have always believed that the Oldsmobile versions of the C&H cars were the best executed followed closely by the Buicks. I did not care for the 85-88 Cadillac and the 87-91 Bonneville was most attractive in the SSE models. GM generally did well with these full size cars.
On to more interesting tidbits…
Once the 77 B&C cars debuted, work on these commenced. After the X car projected was green lighted and everything was finalized there, the full size cars were slated to be introduced for MY1983. GM purchased the old Dodge Main plant from Chrysler in 1980 in Poletown Detroit which they tore down to be replaced by a new plant to build all of the FWD senior cars. The story of the creation of the Hamtramck plant is story unto itself that involved a deal between GM and Mayor Coleman Young of Detroit, several court cases the last of which was decided in 2004, several billion dollars, more robots than had ever been seen before by man, and the forced relocation of 3,500 residents, and the destruction of a large section of an ethnic community. One day I will write up a CC on that and blow up the internet again…
Of course we all know that during the late 70s and early 80s, everyone thought that the energy situation was forever changed (it was but no one knew that gas prices would settle down in the mid 1980s) and that large gas guzzling cars were on their way out. Despite the tremendous success of the 77 B&C cars, by 1980, most in the industry thought that that kind of car would be dead in a few years. In fact sales of full size RWD cars sank during this time. Caprice sales were 1/2 what they were initially, Ford struggled with the LTD, and Chrysler completely left the market midyear 1981. The need for a smaller more efficient yet attractive premium car seemed like a good idea. GM was built on the foundation of large stylish cars no one was about to suggest that we abandon that market.
Given the initial target date of MY1983, the basic architecture of the car and styling was done by the end of MY1980. Work began on the Hamtramck factory in 1981 as well as everything else that was going on at the time. Like I alluded to in the previous piece, everything began to move very fast and it was a radical change. RWD to FWD, an entirely new plant and manufacturing system, a new fuel injected 3.8 V6, and a new 4 speed overdrive transmission. Basically it was like an entirely new car & company sprung up in a few years. Eventually due to delays in getting Hamtramck up and running and the bugs worked out of the new 440T4, the C cars were pushed back from MY1983 to MY1984. Eventually, they were pushed back to a March 1984 introduction and certified for MY1985, although there are marketing pieces floating around that are printed for 1984. Like with the 77 B&C cars, the H cars were developed nearly simultaneously but the decision was made to delay the introduction of those cars for a year in order to make sure everything was smooth on the C cars and give the public time to digest the new models.
Its a manufacturer’s promo but gives you a good idea of some of the ideas that went into the car.
C&H cars were also built in Wentzville, MO (outside of St. Louis).
http://autosofinterest.com/2012/04/15/what-if-c-body-contemplations/
That is a nice write up on some of the history of the styling of the cars.
The biggest issue everyone faced then was time (ever escalating CAFE requirements) and continually changing energy situation. While the long term trend in energy has been born out today, no one thought that gas would be under a $1 in many areas by 1986.
“…It sold quite well, despite some quality issues on early models. But by 1987, this was a solid, comfortable car.”
My grandmother had an ’85 Regency that never ran right. Finally, she traded it for a ’91 Eighty Eight that was bulletproof. Beyond the reliability, both were pretty nice cars.
Despite the shrunken dimensions, the H/C Buick/Olds sedans sold very well (the coupes were spectacular duds, even worse than the downsized E-bodies). The Buicks continued to sell well through the ’90s and early ’00s; Buick didn’t insult their customer base like Olds did and likely gained from Olds’ follies, but eventually those customer started dying off.
3800 pride!
Hi Everyone!
Yes, I am still alive, and surprisingly well!
I haven’t been around much due to preparing for the very real possibility of a move to another part of the state. But I will be back.
Anyways, I too am a fan of these cars (Big surprise, I know). They handled well, were very nicely sized, and for me, traditionally Brougham-y enough to bring a smile to my face.
The space utilization in these cars has yet to be matched, with perhaps the exception of the Chrysler LH cars, though they were bigger. It sure would be nice if automakers would re-learn how to make cars this roomy and airy feeling again…
These cars have always been a bit of a puzzle to me. I know they are roomy and reliable but the just don’t have a presence. They just seem too small for a premium car. Every time I see one in traffic I think it looks like a Cutlass Ciera. If GM had made them slightly larger off the bat (ie the size of the 91+ generation) it may have improved my opinion of them. They just seemed like a cheap replacement for the 80-84 98. Yes I know they handle better, are faster, and get better mileage than the previous cars. If I had a choice I would pick an 80-84 Olds 98 over an 85-90 model every time. The older 98s had presence, something these cars lack, at least in my opinion. I always thought my fathers ’80 Delta 88 was far superior to the ‘89 Delta 88 my friends dad owned.
Plus, the Olds 307 V8 has that unmistakable Oldsmobile exhaust note. It just doesn’t seem right listening to that sound while looking at any hood ornament other than the rocket. 🙂
I can still remember the sound that 307 made at idle after my dad fired the car up to go to work in the morning. It is they only car from my childhood I miss. It’s sad that I vary rarely get to hear that Olds V8 sound anymore. It sounded like a motorboat, very smooth and powerful. I vary rarely hear it at shows, as most people like to put a SBC in Cutlasses and the like. That makes me sad.
It makes me sad too. I always thought the Oldsmobile V8 was one of the finest engines “we” ever produced.
The sound of an Oldsmobile V8 is so distinctive! My first Oldsmobile experience was right after we moved to West Chicago. I heard this incredible rumbling one day from the next-door neighbor’s direction which rattled my bedroom window. My bedroom was on the second floor which faced their driveway and when I ran to the window a well-used 1968 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight convertible was backing out of their garage.
The car had a major exhaust leak which made the dark-colored car that much scarier & mysterious to my five-year-old eyes and it has a lot to do with why I am so attracted to Oldsmobiles today. The owners never fixed the exhaust and then they moved away few years later.
I like the fact that even the lowly 260 V8 emanates that same glorious sound despite its lower output. It makes me ALMOST want to punch holes in some Oldsmobile mufflers when I get home, ha-ha!
I never really gave much thought to these cars but I do like the feature car. Give it a blue interior and I’ll take it! For a grocery getter anyway, it’d be a good follow up to my ’83 Regency Brougham. These usually escape my eye because they just don’t have the presence of the earlier cars, and I am inclined to think the mechanicals aren’t as durable (though I could be wrong). I like all the detail these have compared to the series that followed these. One thing I don’t like looking at this car is how open the back seat area is. In the 80-84 Ninety Eight it’s dark and private back there with the high, wide c-pillar. That and I believe the front seats have higher seat backs in the earlier car.
In the summer of 1996 after a third party stole and crashed my b-body station wagon, there was a complicated interfamily vehicle swap which involved my younger sister receiving a 1990 Pontiac Grand Prix coupe me handing over my settlement from the collision and me receiving a 1985 Oldsmobile 98 regency.
The car had originally been purchased by a pharmacist who liked cigars and had been handed down through another family becoming the college car of a woman 2 years older than me (and me being passenger in said car returning to campus after Passover Seder during the worst episode of foodborne illness I have ever suffered) before being parked for a year.
When I picked up the car the valve cover gaskets leaked and smoked, the tires were all bald, and the car smelled of a mixture of cigar smoke from Barry Eisenmann’s stogies and burned motor oil. The window regulator on the driver’s side front door no longer worked so if you opened the window more than two inches, the window fell into the door. Happily the door trim was rotted enough that you could reach inside the door pull the window up manually and then close the switch so that the window would remain closed.
Late that August after arriving back at Cornell, the air conditioner broke finally. Later that fall, the alternator belt broke. The electronic calculator in the dash was amusing but unusable since the LCD display had burned out elements.
I remember the seats being comfortable and the transmission working adequately and the car was able to sustain 75 mph cruising speeds over the Catskills on route 17, and the non-existent transmission tunnel meant I could transport my bespoke computer desk from my summer digs to my senior year digs, but the lights were dim the car smelled like Monte cristo’s and it looked like an earlier bygone age.
I owned that car for two and a half years. I had sex in that car. I used that car to move four times. By the summer of 1998 the car had 175,000 MI on the odometer and late one night on a grocery run to East Hill plaza, the oil light came on.
I drove the car in neutral down State Street from East Hill plaza actually not even in neutral I switched the engine off and left the dash in accessory mode with the lights to get to my apartment on Seneca Street. I was able to Coast all the way down to my apartment and succeeded in stopping and parking in front of my apartment.
The next morning when I turned the engine over the oil light was still on I drove it to a jiffy lube on route 13 2 miles away and then back to Patterson’s garage at the bottom of Tioga Street. By the time it got to Patterson’s garage it was running extremely rough and on examination with the hood up Dave Patterson pointed out the droplets of gasoline squirting out of the fuel injection.
I scrapped it for 50 bucks salvage and lost a stock certificate in the backseat. Sick Transit Gloria Monday. ( It actually was a Monday and my Transit was sick )
1988-1990 was Peak Ninety Eight, the ones with the wonderful ‘3800’ version of the ole 3.8L that sucked so, so badly with a 2BBL carb.
I’ve had a few, my favorites being the ’88 Ninety Eight that my Grandpa bought new but gave me as a new driver for months when my car got wrecked and there was a bit of an insurance battle. I’ve had 150 cars of every variety since but the way that car drove still sticks with me – it was spectacular.
Then I had a 2-door “88 Eighty Eight” in burgundy with the FE3 handling package and yes, these very wheels with blackwalls.
Finally rounding out my Top 3, a whited out Bonnie SSE, with seats featuring seemingly unlimited adjustments.
Man I wish I was a grownup in a time when one of these could be bought new.
The question I have for the author (and it´s not a gotcha question) is what is it about Olds that is unique to Olds? It´s not that I don´t like the brand – I really like the last 98s and the aero Cutlasses looked super. But I can´t find anything unique to the marque other than specifically they had some good styling down the years. But from a performance, comfort and engineering stance, other cars all do something better or cheaper. That said, I´m sorry GM killed Oldsmobile and even Pontiac. That was not inevitable, it was poor management.
GM once used Olds to introduce new technologies like auto transmissions (actually begun at Cadillac), modern OHV V8s (they were the performance division in the 50s), and FWD. In the 70’s, everything had to be shared across the divisions and Olds went full brougham. Never go full brougham. Then they went to the other extreme, European style and handling, but abandoned their existing customer base before they’d established a new one. Cadillac did much the same thing this century.
I think the biggest nail in the coffin around that timeframe was the demise of the RWD Delta 88 after 1985. There actually was a lot of pushback against the shrunken FWD C-bodies in 1985, and it prompted a lot of people to run out and buy Deltas and LeSabres, before GM screwed those up, too!
My grandparents were among those people. There was an old guy who went to their church, who had an early 80’s Electra coupe that they really liked. At the time, they had an ’82 Malibu wagon they were learning to hate, really fast. Granddad decided they’d go check out the Electra, but they had already switched them to FWD. So, Granddad said “Well we’d better get a LeSabre before they screw that one up, too!” and in October of ’84, they bought one.
The FWD Ninety-Eight and Electra really weren’t as hot of a seller as you might think. If you look at sales, it looks like the ’85 blew the ’84’s away. But, the ’84 model year was cut short, wrapped up around April, and the ’85’s were launched early, giving them inflated sales.
The Ninety-Eight sold about 169,000 units for 1985 (Source: Consumer Guide auto encyclopedia). For 1986, a more “normal” model year, it was down to around 125,000 units. Not too bad, considering it was a shorter model year, and the shrunken 88 no doubt took some sales. But for ’87 it was down to around 82,000. From there it tapered off yearly, until it was down to around 63,000 in 1990. Then the restyled ’91 sunk the brand. It sold about 55,000 the first year, and went out with a whimper at 15,000 in 1996.
However, the reason I say the second wave of downsizing is what really killed Olds, is that the older RWD model had been a very hot seller, even during recessions and fuel crunches. And by 1985 it was one of the top ten selling car nameplates in the United States. The ’86 ensured it would never see that again. For some reason, the Buick LeSabre is better remembered during that era. At some point it started winning some JD Powers surveys or something like that, which gave it good press, as a quality automobile, and that helped its sales. But that magic, for whatever reason, never rubbed off on the 88. And then, just as the Buick got the better end of the bargain in the C-body redesign for ’91, it seemed like they did in ’92 with the H-body, as well.
As for the Cutlass Supreme, while it had been a very strong lineup for awhile, the Cutlass Ciera was taking over more and more for the sedan, while the personal luxury coupe market, in general, was dying off. When the GM-10 FWD version came out for 1988, it was another one of those “shot its wad early” models, where it sold halfway decent for a couple years, then dropped to a trickle.
These cars tend to be better remembered as used cars, than they were new. As new cars, buyers thumbed their noses at them pretty quick, and they came to symbolize all that was wrong with GM and the American auto industry. But, as used cars, they tend to be remembered more fondly, as they were fairly roomy, economical, inexpensive to buy, and even if they weren’t the most reliable things in the world, they were cheap to fix when they broke.
Sad thing though, is that Olds could have done everything right back then, and still would have most likely lost the game, in the end. Just look to a Buick showroom, to see evidence of that. They’re just down to something like three crossovers.
My G’pa was a frequent buyer of the RWD versions, mostly Olds 98 but the occasional Caddy or Electra, and as a kid around that time I recall he was not happy about the downsize and switch to FWD. To the point that in 1986 he stooped so low as to buy a Parisienne Brougham, as loaded as he could find but still, a lowly Poncho. But it was V8, RWD, and even had the rear skirts like the wonderful early 80s 98s. Mom got a new 6000LE at the same time. May have been some kind of package deal, knowing him. I did get my license around that time and got to drive the ‘Parmesan’ several times. Dad had a new Caprice wagon and the 2 were of course very similar. The 305 had notably more giddyup than the Olds 307 in some other cars I drove, to include the next Caprice wagon Dad got in ’89. What they did not like about the big Pontiac was the fabric on those cushy pillow seats – apparently it grabbed and held onto hair, and you could not easily vacuum it. I know the frustration because I grew up to also be an automotive Neat Freak and fabric that’s tough to clean is unwelcome.
We bought one in mint condition for our daughter just like this one, white but with blue interior, in 2005 from the original old lady owner in Westchester Co (NY. ) It had only 62k miles and extensive service records. Daughter was moving from NYC to Iowa City for her husband to go to law school. She was a pharma rep for Novartis and had the IC and Quad Cities as her territory, so you may have seen this one around Tom. She had a company car but drove the Olds Regency occasionally. I loved the car, it had room, 3800 power, economy, a great ride (air suspension), handled well, fwd for IA snow, and was quite plush. IMO these fwd Cs really were a modern solution for US big car traditionalists, giving up little to the great land yachts. The weakness was the tranny, and after 3 years of her husband (mostly) driving it around IC they donated it to a charity after the trans started slipping mildly and they were preparing to move to Denver. I was disappointed because I was hoping to get it back! If the trans can be made to last these are really nice cars to cruise in!
My boss at the time bought an ’86 98 that was so bouncy, I talked my dad into getting a T Type Electra the next year. The way he drove, passengers would have gotten carsick. It also didn’t look under-tired like the standard wheel, but the Eagle GTs cupped quickly and loudly.
GM had used the same greenhouses on C bodies before, but it was far too obvious on these (and repeated on smaller cars). The Electra had the funky front-hinged hood that wrapped over the fender, but the rest of the sheet metal was too similar to the 98.
In the late 80s I had a long assignment in Akron and I was provided with an Olds 98 as a long term rental. It was very different from anything I had driven in a while and I really enjoyed it. I learnt to drive on my dad’s 1961 Olds Dynamic 88, so in a way it was a return to Olds. Of course I have no idea about its reliability, but it was extremely comfortable and I loved the low belt line that gave such large windows and great visibility. At the time we had a BMW 2002 and an 85 Honda Civic wagon, so it was quite a change. The farthest I drove it was to the Cleveland airport, but it was the first car I drove with cruise control. It helped me avoid tickets on the way to the airport.
This was the last Oldsmobile that carried forth Oldsmobile styling cues (ditto the ’86 H body 88). The next restyle of both vehicles went off the rails- even as the redesigned 90s Buicks stayed true to their legacy styling. The Aurora and Intrigue were the nails in the coffin. They didn’t even begin to “look” like Oldsmobiles.
I disagree, the ’90s Oldsmobiles always gave me the impression that they got the purest version of what GM Design wanted a midsize mid-price sedan to be, while the Pontiac and Buick styling cues – acceptable but over-the-top for the intended market side cladding, spoilers and cheesegrater alloys in the former case, too much tacked-on chrome, whitewalls and other embarrasingly dated Brougham touches in the latter – were glommed on as afterthoughts.
They really did only need one mid-market division even then.
Can anyone tell me what John-“And I haven’t been to Europe”- Rock knew about car design?
Since you seem to be referring to the Aurora and Intrigue, I’ll address those here.
First, the Aurora. John Rock came to Olds in 92. The styling for the Aurora had been around since the 1989 Tube Car concept. Olds had been planning on going down a different styling path for a while. They had to. The ship was sinking, something different had to be done. And the Aurora was really like nothing else when it came out. Considering how many people (myself included) still like the Aurora’s design, I can’t say John presided over a bad product. The only crime was keeping the first gen’s distance from the Olds name. The 2001 Aurora fixed that, but unfortunately GM had pulled the plug by then.
What exactly was wrong with the Intrigue? It was actually a competent offering. Good looking, good drivetrains, comfortable and drove well. Once the 1999 Alero and 2001 Aurora came around, Olds actually had a cohesive, attractive design throughout their lineup. The problem was that GM didn’t give them a chance.
In the immortal words of the guy that you don’t seem to care much for: “This is the last Buick Olds will ever build”.
If you take any random Oldsmobile from the past 50+ years (take my uncle’s ’65 88 convertible- turquoise with white top) and compare it to the ’90 Recency, there is an obvious family resemblance. There is no family resemblance to the Aurora/Intrigue and previous generation Oldsmobiles. GM designated Oldsmobile to be its “international style” line. Well and good. But you could have designed a Euro/Oldsmobile that had the Oldsmobile look. The ’99 Riviera- off the same Aurora platform- was unmistakably a Buick. Instead, Oldsmobile threw away their iconic names and everything else and paid a terrible price.
In the 1990s i owned what we in Brooklyn call a Car Service, basically a radio dispatched taxi company. Most of our O/O drove GM RWD cars from the 80s, everything but Cadillacs. We also had our own cars and I always bought Olds or Buicks as they were actually cheaper used than Chevys. They took the rough NYC streets better than anything before or since and for taxi use were leagues ahead of the FWD cars that replaced them.
That being said, the only cars I owned for my family use were 3800 fwd cars. They were so much better to drive and just as comfortable as the older ones and used half the gas. Snow didn’t faze them and I could fit 6 people in comfort when relatives came to visit from other countries and we would go to DC or Toronto on trips. I had 1 1986 Regency, 1991 LeSabre and a 1988 Bonneville. All were wonderful, though the leather interior in the 98 was something special.
Are used to have a 1987 olds 98 love that car and ride so smooth