(first posted 3/31/2015) The Toyota Camry is a curious thing, given how it’s capable of stirring up such emotions. Well, it doesn’t take Dr. Freud to figure out why: this car, which looks so much like it could have been a generic GM X or A-Body, is more responsible for the downfall of GM than any other car, save perhaps the Honda Accord. Curiously enough, it could have been a Ford.
Now the fact that the partially boarded-up building right over the Camry’s spacious trunk was once this splendid Chevrolet dealership is just an ironic coincidence. But the symbolism is not lost. The Camry has become America’s full-size Chevrolet, and this particular high-trim version one I found sitting here is in Impala trim, with its alloy wheels, two-tone paint and plush interior.
Chevrolet Impala? And yet it could have been a Ford Galaxie? Well, more like the Ford Taurus. In May 1980, Eiji Toyoda sent a letter to Ford President Donald Petersen proposing a joint venture to build Toyota’s new up-coming Camry in the US. Why?
After Nissan and Honda announced that they would build the first Japanese transplant factories in the US, Toyota didn’t want to get left behind. They hired three research firms to investigate the best strategy, and a joint venture with one of the Big Two was considered a more conservative and prudent way to go. And of course Ford was the preferred partner, given Ford’s great influence in Japan due to its pioneering quality efforts and manufacturing controls back in Ford’s glory days of the Model T and A. In 1980, the Ford name still stood for something, in Japan anyway. In the US, Ford had just come off its worst decade ever, and had a near-brush with bankruptcy thanks to Lee Iacocca’s tenacious love for fat boxy broughams.
Petersen went to Japan in June of 1980 and full-scale negotiations ensued. The proposed Camry was rejected by Ford, because it would be too close in size to its upcoming Taurus. When Toyota offered to scale it down, Ford demurred again, as then it would have butted heads with its Tempo. So instead the talks devolved into some consideration of Ford using the Toyota Town Ace van, which later was imported by Toyota as its first van. But that never went anywhere, and talks ended in 1981.
So poor old Toyota was spurned, and had to go it alone. And although the Taurus was more advanced stylistically, the Camry, which preceded it by a few years, ended up vanquishing it totally.
These gen1 Camrys started it, even if they weren’t quite the giant killers yet. But they were competent, roomy and very well put together, which sealed its reputation from day one (1983). Which of course was perfect timing, as GM’s ballyhooed X-Cars were just then flaming out, having arrived quarter-baked and already turning into GM’s Deadliest Sin ever. The Camry was similar in size and conception, and was ready to scoop up Citation buyers, as long as their cars could make it to the nearest Toyota dealer.
Although the Camry’s golden years were still ahead of it, these first ones were already exuding the qualities that soon endeared its buyers in a generation or two. The body exuded solidity, and the ride was plush, if not exactly sporty. Material quality was good, if not as spectacular as the vaunted gen3 Camry.
And given its modest dimensions (102″ wheelbase; 174″ length), its back seat was already quite roomy too.
But most importantly, even though the Camry was Toyota’s first transverse-engine FWD car, as were GM’s X-Bodies, the Toyota arrived fully baked; maybe even a bit overdone. There were zero teething problems; in just about every way, it was the anti-X car.
It was probably just as well that Ford didn’t bite; Ford was on a roll in the 80s, and its Taurus was a smash hit, and even Toyota had a few things to learn from it, design-wise. And it’s probably an even better thing that Toyota didn’t even approach GM at this point, as their later joint venture NUMMI didn’t quite work out either all too well.
No; joint ventures with the Big Three were all doomed for failure, for one reason or another. Dancing with the Big Three turned out to be deadly. And it’s not like Toyota didn’t manage to find its own way, all by its little self.
There’s still a fair number of these on the streets here, but this one takes the Camry cake; the queen of the fleet. It’s absolutely pristine, and appears to likely belong to an older owner who probably bought it new. A shiny reminder of how square and innocuous the Camry started out life, before it became rounded and ubiquitous.
Related reading:
CC 1986 Toyota Camry: Toyota Builds A Better Citation, Forever
CC 1980 Chevrolet Citation: GM’s Deadliest Sin
I’ve often said on the “other” site that today’s Camry is the equivalent of the ’65 full-size Chevy, but more often than not, I’m taken to task for that. Good history lesson, Paul!
These first-gen Camrys are still seen occasionally in central VA. I think there’s only one Citation still extant, and none of the other fwd X-cars.
Absolutely. You are absolutely correct that Camry is todays Impala – modest, respectable, comfortable, relatively trouble free, good resale value – just the thing for people who really do not care all that much about cars and want a safe purchase.
I became aware of this model when people we knew who were very savvy about cars bought one. I was totally surprised that they bought anything other than GM. I don’t think they ever went back to GM after their Camry.
I wouldn’t say that is necessarily “just the thing for people who really do not care all that much about cars and want a safe purchase.”
A lot of people do care about cars, but still want a safe purchase and I don’t blame them.
My mum bought an ’86 Camry Liftback after decades of driving Oldsmobile wagons. She was a graphic artist & needed the flat load floor, but wanted something that fit in the garage. In ’98 it was time for a new one. The salesperson @ the dealer said “Try a RAV4”. They came in bright colors & had a side opening tailgate w/ the tyre on the back. No more Camry wagons. She said “No Way”. She ended up getting a VW Passat wagon; 1.8T. The Passat was pretty good, but it liked oil. In ’08, it was time for the Passat to go, so she ended up getting a CR-V.
My wife-to-be had an ’86 Camry when I met her. She loved that car; it was the result of a failed prior relationship — with a Chevette, a total lemon.
I never dared to think of it as a Chevy, however, for by this time, I perceived Toyota as at the top of their game in product quality. My roommate got a Supra (not what I expected, given his personality), and that impressed me too. “The Toyota Way” superseded “Fordism.”
Huh. I never knew that about the almost-joint venture.
“…Even Toyota had a few things to learn from [the first Taurus], design-wise.”
I agree. The Taurus and gen 2 Camry were each ALMOST there in the late ’80s. The question was whether Ford would match Toyota build quality before the Camry gained that elusive “big car feel” Americans like in a family sedan.
Toyota made their leap in ’92, while Ford didn’t make the Fusion until ’06. It would be interesting to explore why.
Great cars, those 1st gen 1983-86 Camrys… Owned 2 of them, an 85 Camry Deluxe 5 spd(pretty fast car), and an 86 Camry Deluxe automatic.
No wonder the Camry is the BEST car(face facts, folks) in reliability,… my 85 had 219,000, while my 86 had 309, 228 miles.
I still see a blue 85 driving around, and my buddy has a quad headlight red 83 or 84, he uses as a daily. Ya can’t beat an ole Yota.
The sad part is, the original Camry, is a lot smaller than the current beluga whale, Corolla.
Can’t convince me the Camry is THE best in reliability. I live in New England and I see far more older Accords than Camrys still on the road. The Camry is a great car, no question, but so is the Accord. And I know, the “tranny” issue will come up about the V-6 Accords having early trany failures. Well I know plenty of people that had V-6 Toyotas with sludge issues too. Not to mention the sticking accelerator issue as well. So lets face it, no brand is perfect, but the Camry AND Accord both come damn near close.
Tom, I love the Accord also… But you see ALOT more 1st gen and 2nd gen Camrys still driving around then 1st and 2nd gen Accords.
The 1st gen Accords had bad rust, and faulty carburetor issues(Consumer Reports listed it as a used car to avoid). When is the last time you saw a 1st gen Accord? In a museum? I think they are pretty much extinct, if the rust monster hadn’t gotten to the rare few. Heck, you can’t find a 2nd gen, never mind a 3rd gen flip up lite 1986-89(owned 3… 1989, 1987 and 1988).
I still see tons of 2nd gen 1987-91 Camrys, driving around, and at least 3 a month of the 1st gens… and I live in New England, also.
You just named the faulty trannies of the Accords… What lost Honda’s lead in the family sedan market to the Camry was the faulty automatics in 1999-2005 Hondas. My friend had a tranny shit the bed in his 2003 Accord coupe, to the tune of $3000.
Only recall I heard of Camrys were the 1984s might have faulty voltage regulators or ignition switches… Rather deal with a less than $200 part than a $3000 auto tranny bill.
I guess the Camry is more reliable, sometimes. I’ve heard of the sludge issue in 1996-2000 Toyotas, but think it was more recalled for the Avalon, Sienna, Toyota pickups and Sequoias.
Anyway, no car is perfect… Not even the bulletproof Slant 6 Darts/Valiants. Rusted out trunk frames and rotted gas tank straps are a note of concern.
YMMV on those sightings. I see quite a few more 3rd-gen/early 4th-gen Accords than I do second-gen Camrys. And of the 1st gen cars? True, they’re almost gone. I can only recall seeing two in the past five years, and one was actually a restoration of a rust-free Arizona car. But those were off the market before the Camry saw the light of day so that’s not a fair comparison. I’d say the T130 Corona would be the closest comparison and when was the last time you saw one of those?
The only time period where your observations and mine seem to jive is that I clearly see more 1st-gen Camrys than 2nd-gen Accords. Neither are extinct but the 82-85 Accords are looking endangered as daily drivers.
Noticed you mentioned New England; that may have something to do with it! The early Camrys may well have had better rustproofing. Where rust isn’t as much of a concern (I’m in central VA and previously lived in NC) I think it shows the reliability of the mechanicals to be a close match.
We seem to agree BOTH are good cars. Also, Tom it is sad you don’t see the 1982-85 3rd gen Accords around anymore.
The last time I saw one, was when I owned my 1985 Accord LX tan sedan, back in 2003… It was a memorable car, because it moved me and my girlfriend into our 1st apartment. The poor car had a messed up catalytic converter, which damaged the engine. Sadly, that was the last time I saw one… 2004, when I got rid of it, for my 1990 Nissan 240sx hatchback.
I also owned a 1982 Accord LX silver sedan… But the engine overheated, and seized the engine.
I also sold my beloved T130 1981 Toyota Corona Deluxe sedan, back in 2011… It had the 22R engine, I miss that car.
** I meant to say “1982-85 2nd gen”, not 3rd gen
DOH!!
I saw an ’84 or ’85 Accord hatchback in traffic the other day, much like one I had when I was in college except that it still had stock wheelcovers and no aftermarket sunroof. It was in startlingly good shape and very clean, suggesting it has probably been garaged much of its life.
I also had a 2nd-gen Accord in the family, a white 1984 LX sedan with blue interior. We bought it in 1998 for me to take to college, though I ended up taking my old Malibu instead and Dad drove the Accord to work as he liked smaller cars and manual gearboxes. Quite a nice little car; they ended up selling it in ’03 when it had trouble passing emissions. Still ran fine, so it may well have ended up living for many more years in a non-emissions county.
As to sightings, I saw a burgundy ’84 or ’85 sedan on the road about a month ago, driving on a (rare for the area) snowy day. Looked to be in good shape and carried antique plates. Hopefully they washed it well afterward to clear away the salt!
Sorry, to hear about your parents having to sell your 84 Accord, Chris.
If they lived in MA, where I live… They’d still be able to keep the Accord… We don’t do emissions on cars older than 2000.
Mom didn’t like it anyway. The A/C “sort of” worked but it never blew ice cold, and she considers that a deal-breaker. I think Dad was kind of sad to see it go though.
North Carolina (where they live) discontinued the tailpipe “sniffer” testing in probably 2005 or 2006, so from that point on, the only cars that are subject to emissions requirements are OBD-II (1996 and newer). They missed that one by a couple of years. In some counties they never tested in the first place, but the ones with major cities (and attendant air quality problems) did and still do.
So true Sarcasmo, both are good cars. Honestly, I haven’t seen a 1st gen Camry in Rhode Island in 15 years! Same holds true for the Accord. Let’s face it, we all know that Honda and Toyota make very reliable vehicles. We can nitpick both brands for issues over the years, as no car is perfect. So the debate will go on forever as to which is better, the Camry or the Accord. And that is strictly personal preference. (But I have to admit I do see a lot more older Accords here in Rhode Island than Camrys!)
Yep, really Tom… I see those 1st gen Camrys from time to time, I kid you not.
Although, we may not see the light blue one much longer… If the young driver keeps trying to race around with it, like Sonny Crocket’s Ferrari.
A few months ago, a 1986 tan Camry LE was for sale, but the guy wanted $3500. No thanks.
I remember this car as being the first 4-cylinder with a 4-speed automatic. Pretty heady for 1983.
Like the MR2 that followed it, it was perhaps best in class even if it looked boring.
I usually don’t disagree with Paul, but why didn’t NUMMI work out so well? Both sides got what they wanted. GM got a good look at many (not all) of Toyota’s manufacturing processes, and Toyota had a chance to use American workers without investing very much.
The Corollas and derivatives, and later Toyota P/U built there were good products. The plant ran for over 20 years.
Both sides got what they wanted,and the public got good vehicles.
After being mothballed during the great recession the plant is once again in use today making Teslas.
The only sense I can think of is that the rest of GM didn’t apply the lessons as they should’ve. Not NUMMI’s fault. Also, the GM-branded cars from the first Nova to the last Vibe have all lagged in resale value behind their Toyota-badge equivalents; again, not a plant issue but a perception one, and used buyers get a Toyota without paying for the name while the new buyers didn’t lose out that badly because (at least in the ’90s/00s) there was the same cash on the hood as all other GM cars got at any given point.
If you want a Japanese/Western hookup that worked out poorly, look at Nissan/Alfa Romeo and the poor, misbegotten Arna which combined ’80s Japanese econobox dreariness with old-school Italian fragility.
A friend of mine who had as his first car a 11 years old 1981 Buick Regal Limited which constantly gave him minor but annoying problems in addition to have serious hidden rust issues (he had to replace all the floor pans and part of the frame soon after he got it) got to replace it with a free car that belonged to his mother’s second husband. He first thought it was boring but as he had to drive long distances to attend school 45 miles away from home. The boring car was a Chevrolet Nova from 1986 which was made at the Nummi plant, it had high mileage but it was very reliable and remained rust free during all the years he owned it. He finally liked it so much that he kept buying cars and trucks from the same brand. Not the brand shown on the Delco radio or on the Harrison radiator but the brand that was written on the side marker lenses!
I also had a well used 1984 FWD Corolla that I bought in 1997, gave to friends 6 years later as it needed a head gasket replacement, bought it back (in running condition) 3 years later and gave again to my uncle who used it until November of 2010. And while it was not in the nicest shape in 2010, it ended being scrapped after someone tried to steal it! Here’s a picture showing that ’84 Corolla in 2009. I had replaced all the interior with the interior from a 1986 Corolla LE (including the door panels, the console/armrest, folding rear seatbacks and the double-din Fujitsu Ten AM Stereo / FM stereo Cassette radio with a large equalizer and 4 speakers). I replaced two gears in the tape deck in the late 1990s and it was still working when the car was sent to the junkyard. The blue velour seats and door panels that were almost as nice as those of the featured Camry and still clean.
While I really like older (mostly pre-1980) GM cars, my daily drivers are both Toyotas, a boring but reliable 2001 Camry V6 and a 1993 SR5 4×4 pickup with the V6 and manual gearbox (both vehicles made in Japan, I have never seen a pre-Tacoma SR5 pickup made at the Nummi plant, just some Deluxe models). I got the pickup when it had 124,000 miles and now it has over 215,000 miles and still runs well. It’s loaded with most options and even the original power antenna and A/C still work!
It worked ok enough, but GM didn’t properly learn the lessons it was exposed to there. That was the point, and Toyota did it in part for altruistic reasons, as they were genuinely concerned about a huge political blow-back if GM and the other big Three were damaged too badly by Toyota and the other Japanese. But Americans came to see that it was mostly their own doing.
imagine a joint venture the other way round. GM build a JV in Japan. Now that would have been interesting?
From the standpoint of producing quality vehicles, NUMMI was a success during its 26 year run.
Unfortunately, the GM staffers who were seconded to NUMMI and later tried to impart their ideas and knowledge to the rest of the GM organization weren’t able to make much progress.
On “This American Life,” on March 26th, 2010, they had an episode on exactly why Nummi failed: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/NUMMI
Beat me to it. Great episode.
In the summer of 1985, I was studying for my bar exam. The two guys I was studying with each bought a new car during that time. One bought a Buick Somerset Regal, and the other bought a Camry sedan – a diesel, even.
The Buick hit me with a “sigh, this is what we have to drive as grownups” vibe. But the Camry was refreshing. It had a feel and presence quite unlike the U.S. cars I was used to, and also far upscale from the Japanese cars that had become common by then.
I came to prefer Hondas, but Toyota undeniably turned out a very good car here.
Paul, I appreciate your accuracy in writing the Camry was Toyota’s first “transverse engine FWD. . .” How many of us recall that the earliest Tercel to reach U.S. shores had a longitudinally-mounted engine? How many of us even remember the car at all? A high school principal friend of our family had one of these. IIRC it was a 1981 year model hatchback. It certainly looked different from any other Toyota on sale at the time.
When we married in 1984 we needed to replace the beloved but well-used 1975 Corona 2-door sedan that my wife was driving. We really wanted a new Camry but even the least expensive one was over our newlywed budget. I did find a very nice, very-low mile 1979 Corona 4-door Liftback. It was a wonderful car despite its sluggish automatic transmission. Unfortunately, it was totaled in an accident less than a year after we bought it. Oddly, it was also the only car I ever owned that had a front bench seat – American makes included.
We did the Tercel here and a few other times too: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-asian/curbside-classic-1979-1982-toyota-tercel-toyota-nails-another-one/
I actually owned a very similar Camry although quite briefly. The body was in real nice shape as was the interior. The underneath was a little rusty and as a result the CV axle swap it required was an absolute bear. Sadly the automatic transmission sucked the life out of any semblance of performance despite the “Power” button on it. We gave it to my sister in law who managed to crash it three times in a month before giving up driving for a couple years.
Although I enjoy seeing them now, by the mid to late 80s the styling on the first gen Camry looked VERY frumpy and dated.
The ’86 I had was very plush. The 4spd auto made it a decent highway cruiser. The interior was exceptionally nice with its soft touch dash and comfy seats.
Many Australians refer to Toyotas as “whitegoods”,refrigerators,washing machines etc,meaning bland but functional.I really like the Chevrolet showroom though.
As silly as it might be, while I really like old american cars, I mostly drive Toyotas, And I have to admit that I also collect white goods (and colored white goods if we could call the “Avocado”, “Brushed Chrome”, “Coppertone”, “Harvest Gold”, “Pink” and “Turquoise” ones like that!). And most of my white goods are made by GM!
I wish I could have a large GM car collection but I can’t afford to have more than the 3 old GM cars I actually have in addition to my 3 Toyotas and my Honda motorcycle so I now have a large GM appliance collection!!
So I keep my food in GM Frost-Proof refrigerators, I also cook my meals on GM ranges and microwave ovens, wash my dishes in GM dishwashers and wash/dry my clothes in GM automatic washers and dryers! I also have many GM room air conditioners for the hot season. I’m still searching for a “4 seasons” reverse-cycle air conditioner that I could use for heating too but these seem to be hard to find around here!
🙂
I’m wondering if driving Toyotas and collecting appliances is something for people who enjoy being bored but I find both entertaining!
For those who care, here are some pictures mostly showing my appliances!
https://www.flickr.com/groups/1704348@N21/pool/33723086@N02/
Very cool collection. Old appliances are fascinating to me, but not enough to start adopting them, as I already have too many time-sucks in my life.
The first Camry was a great car. It is a shame that Toyota decided to follow the path of sludge, record breaking recalls etc.
My mom had an 86, there are still a few of these around here.
I remember when this generation Toyota Camry was introduced. I thought it was way better looking than anything General Motors was offering at the time, and way more reliable. My parents had one when I was in the 7th until the 10th grade, by which they bought a 1989 Camry, which then was offered with a V6 engine. The only thing I didn’t like about either car was its front wheel drive. Call me old-school, but I prefer rear-wheel drive.
Count me as one who never knew of the proposed Toyota-Ford joint venture. Interesting
In the mid-to-late 1980s, a friend had a 1984 Camry and I compared it directly to our 1984 E-Class. Of course the Chrysler was much more plush and with the two-tone paint, it was much classier – BUT – the Camry HAD something that made me keep an eye on Toyota and look closer at Nissan because of their Maxima. Honda was in my eyesight, too.
Funny – the new Corolla is probably as big as that early Camry!
I’ve said it before and I’m saying it again: Toyota (and Honda) deserve a lot of credit for creating a nameplate and cultivating it for generations. When one hears “Camry” a distinct image comes to mind. That couldn’t be further from the case with domestic brands.
What one does to oneself is often an equal or bigger determinant of success than the influence of outside factors. Renaming your car every generation or two is not a recipe for durable success.
Just look at Acura. They confuse the heck out of their customers! The Legend still exists in Japan, so why not here in the states? It was THE first Japanese luxury nameplate to come to the U.S., only to be renamed RL and now RLX. Stupid. Totally stupid. People loved the Legend and the nameplate, too. I doubt you would ever see them change the Accord to something like ACX or the Civic to CDX – well, you get the point!
I don’t think the companies deliberately created cultivating nameplates, few of them will survive somehow through the decades anyway. ( like Town&Country and Suburban ) but most would be casualties.
I think automakers today are very concerned about nameplate management and cultivation (recognizing of course that being concerned about something doesn’t automatically translate into doing it well). There was a while in the ’60s where I think GM was too hasty about pulling formerly top-of-the-liine brands down-market — I imagine Chevrolet’s brand management people regret that their predecessors eventually downgraded the Bel Air to strippo fleet special — but they’d be wary of doing that today.
The problem is that it’s gotten a lot harder because so many things are sold internationally, which exponentially complicates the trademark clearance issues and potential translation problems. Also, marketing people tend to be very gunshy about anything that seems like it might be perceived as embarrassing or silly. Deciding whether a nameplate is evocative or just old-fashioned and whether it will call up too many negative associations is not a simple question.
The whole discussion can also be skewed abruptly one way or the other if a single senior executive doesn’t like the sound of a particular name, can’t pronounce it, or just thinks it’s stupid. I’ve watched this happen in other businesses and I don’t doubt for a second that it’s a major headache for automakers.
I’m not a branding expert, but I think it is due to the success of Accord, Camry, Corolla and Civic that the American companies have revived some legacy names. Impala and Malibu were gone 10 years or more, but I suspect they will last forever now. Ditto the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger. I am less sure about Taurus (better than 500 though, which makes no sense without the Galaxy part), though Focus is now established as well. Not so sure about Cruze …
Cruze doesn’t seem destined for the long haul. I’d like to see them bring back the Nova name on the compact; it shouldn’t be too “soiled” especially considering the final NUMMI Novas were basically Corollas in drag. But, you always hear stories about questionable translations into Spanish/Portugese so that might keep it from reappearing. I’d see that as in line with Chrysler bringing the Dart name back to the compact realm.
Two-tone color schemes where really popular in the 80s. Mercedes started the trend with their lower body cladding in a contrasting color. Ford got into the act with the Taurus LX which had a gray lower mimicking Mercedes. Japanese brands like Toyota and Nissan offered it too, though it was a more traditional approach like you can see on that Citation, sans actual cladding.
I liked these Camrys actually. The rear seat was roomy. You can tell they made that a priority because of the relatively long rear door.
That is a super clean one there Paul.
The rear triangular window does some help at the same time. Usually they share the extra length with the rear door to offer a better rear legroom. Examples today: two wheel base of Holden commodore
Two-tone jobs like this were very popular in Japan for a while. They were never as colorful as American two-tones of the ’50s (for better or worse), but a dark color over silver or a light color over black was pretty common.
I don’t understand how Camry size suddenly became mainstream in the family sedan market, as it is still too cramped inside despite huge growth in size. Most Taurus has been cramped to some degrees maybe with exception of ’96-’06 models but those has their drawbacks.
Measured by interior volume, Camry ( Malibu alike ) is a typical mid-size car, however it is way too narrow, and this problem will not be shown by interior volume but the hip room. ( A worse example is Toyota Prius, technically it is a mid-size car but the comfort is similar to Ford Focus with similar width and not so much bigger legroom. I feel sorry for those taxi drivers and passengers alike ) Not many companies are mentioning this nowadays though. I feel the general customers’ expectation from a mainstream family sedan has declined a lot since the late ’70s, as the compromise of that era ( Chrysler F-Body ) is generously roomy by today’s standard.
And the size we can command nowadays is shrinking at the same time. Standard size ’67 Fury doesn’t fit into many parking spots in Seattle, WA. ( similar length-width suburban must have the same problem too, and I guess that’s why smaller SUV/CUV is booming ) I just hope our choices won’t shrink to rocket shape vehicles though.
A lot of today’s cars look spacious on paper but in reality they have cramped footwells, tight kneeroom, low slung seats, and piss-poor visibility. A big reason why CUVs and pickups are so popular IMO.
I can tell you that my parents never would have considered that Camry for our family of 5, and the nameplate has nothing to do with it.
Visibility is indeed a problem. Usually it’s better when beltline is lower, but it’s not very common on sedans nowadays. Even dated W-Body Impala has quite bad visibility comparing to older cars ( LeSabre, Century such ) and newer cars like LaCrosse have beltline pretty high.
The reason SUV/CUV ( pickups and minivans alike ) bothers me is the higher center of gravity. During Michigan winter it’s just not easy to keep all the wheels on the road all the time, too easy to go off occasionally. I went off the road three times this year and two of them occurred above 60mph, it would be really bad if tips over in a higher vehicle. For a sedan, it’s less a concern.
If you think a Chrysler F-Body is more spacious on the interior than a recent Camry, I encourage you to do a side-by-side test of both of them. When I egt into one of these cramped Chryslers and some of the other cars of that era, I’m rather shocked at how small they are inside.
Maybe someone will do the numbers, but I’m convinced a recent Camry is much more commodious than an F-Body, which started out as the “compact” Volare/Aspen.
This got me curious.
2015 Camry:
Headroom 38.8″ (front) and 38.1″ (rear)
Shoulder room 58″ (front) and 56.6″ (rear)
Hip room 54.5″ (front) and 54.5″ (rear)
Legroom 41.6″ (front) and 38.9″ (rear)
1980 Aspen:
Headroom 39.3″ (front) and 37.7″ (rear)
Shoulder room 55.8″ (front) and 55.6″ (rear)
Legroom 42.7″ (front) and 37.6″ (rear)
Nothing available for hip room.
This was interesting to see. Camry info from the Toyota website (using cars without a moonroof) and Aspen info from automobile-catalog.com
Hip room on an Aspen coupe is 57.4/51.8 ( found in 1976 Popular Science ), on 1980 Dodge Diplomat sedan it is 56.8″ / 56.6″ ( same as 1980 Chrysler LeBaron and many others ) and probably it is the similar size for F-Body
Thanks for looking that up, I tried and came up blank on the Chryslers. I think it’s safe to say that the F-body would seem to be more spacious, given the very similar numbers and less intrusive interior trimmings. I would also guess that the seating position is more upright. For example my F-150 is only listed at 41.3″ of front legroom but it is far more spacious and comfortable than either of these due to the bottom cushion height.
Been a long time since I’ve been in an F-body though so I couldn’t say for certain.
In looking this up there was nothing for the ’76 models, so I jumped to the end of the line and bingo.
No doubt the arrangement plays a factor in how the given space comes across to people. I spent much of yesterday in the back seat of a 2014 F-150 Super Crew. Holy cow, that was like a limousine, however in researching it there is only an extra 5″ of legroom in comparison to a Camry (or Avalon, I’ve been looking at a lot of numbers the last few days). It seemed to be much more than 5″ given the seat arrangements.
The strange thing about dimensions that make cars seem similar is that it frequently doesn’t translate into the actual user experience. I recall those F Body Chrysler products fairly well, and the rear seats were usually cramped behind an average or taller driver.
The Camry, the 2014 anyway, has a very accomodating rear seat. My guess is that factors such as seat height off the floor, the Camry’s nearly flat floor compared to the old F Body deep floor wells and large center tunnel create a very different environment.
It’s kind of like the current Ford Taurus and Ford Fusion. On paper, the Taurus is generally bigger in all dimensions, but the Fusion rear seat simply works better. The Taurus is known for a too big center console for one thing.
I’m not in a hurry to call the Camry the modern Impala. The Camry is more of a modern F body Chrysler with an efficient FWD design. The modern Impala, (nonwithstanding the actual Impala being produced) is a CUV such as the Traverse, the current Explorer and the Highlander. The “Full-Size” family market quit buying sedans after about 1990.
F-Body is rather cramped among traditional cars, especially if seated full. ( I mean 4 people. ) and they used the trick to enlarge legroom by cutting seats thin and small, it’s very compromised. But if driving alone or up to one passenger, the longitude space isn’t a big problem as the front row can always go further.
The traverse space is more generous ( it was a selling point for F-Body then ) as the car is wider to start with, better efficiency on design ( probably why they slap the power window buttons on doors on F-Body, and later M-Body the buttons lie as a line there. But newer cars get more safety equipment stuffed at the same time ) and there isn’t a huge central console to eat away the remaining space on F-Body sedan/wagon. By grabbing up minor space here and there, F-Body is usually more roomy on the front row comparing to a Camry. ( I choose not to spend too much time on rear seats of neither model though )
The F-Body seems narrower to me anyway, and those shoulder numbers seem to support that. It’s a factor of its boxy, upright sides.
The 2.2″ or 2.3″ difference goes back and forth between hip room and shoulder room for newer Camry and F-body. Center console makes a difference on how much space the driver can actually obtain from the width though.
F-Body looks quite boxy and upright, and later ’80s M-Body looks slightly wider with quad headlights, but less than an inch was cut.
The Carter Malaise years were a rude awakening for Americans. We just couldn’t catch a break. Vietnam, Watergate, inflation, gas shortages and then Jimmy Carter? America had a full decade of suck. The Brougham Age crapped out right along to the disco beat and cocaine.
Cars went from looking like a den of sin, into a sin. They got stigmatized, pulverized, neutered not to pollute, or move quicker than 55 miles per hour upon highways designed for 80. Driving became sinful in the fashion world. While everyone knew reality meant driving, it was fashionable to look like you had to do it. The cars were styled to show that you took your sins humbly.
Box cars showed that you didn’t care if you couldn’t drive fast. They showed that you cared about efficiency. Their sizes showed that you were aware that gasoline was going to run out by 1985. It seems that every so often, we see Americans embracing sack cloth, hair shirts, thorn crowns and ashes as fashion to atone for public decadences.
Our cars reflected our piety for the Brougham sleds we had illicit thoughts in.
The Camry looked like this because all the cars looked like this. The Camry was the answer for the buyer ashamed for lusting in his heart for Detroit metal. While Detroit couldn’t figure out how to profitably make a rolling confessional booth, the Japanese already knew how to make a small car. All Toyota, Honda and Nissan had to do was put boxes over their efficient four cylinder engines and ship them across half the world, polluting diesel fumes all the way, for Americans to catch a new fashion fever, courtesy of Japan.
The Camry was a very good car. It might have looked like everything else on the road, but it was just a better car than what Detroit was struggling to figure out. After a decade of building cars that rusted out in three highly dependable and gas miserly years, the American market was ready for this bigger Toyota.
Sadly, it took Detroit decades to build something as or more desirable, losing market share to Japan every day. Now that they have caught up, it will take a new generation of American buyers to fix what the Boomers did to America’s auto legacy when they turned their backs to their country’s rides. Hopefully one day, “Buy Local” bumper stickers will begin appearing on local, national US brands and Americans will discover the economic benefits of supporting their neighbors.
Well, see. The Camry wasn’t just any old box – it ended up being Pandora’s didn’t it?
As usual, your take on history is colorful, but it’s much more hysterical than historical. 🙂
I assure you that the typical Camry buyer was not “ashamed for lusting in his heart for Detroit metal.” The exact opposite; he was shamed at having been fooled into buying junky Detroit metal that didn’t hold up. And ashamed that his country was building such crappy cars.
Our cars reflected our piety for the Brougham sleds we had illicit thoughts in.
Are you familiar with the concept of “projection”? Seriously, the folks that bought Camrys and Accords either never wanted Broughams in the first place, or were sick of their issues.
Hopefully one day, “Buy Local” bumper stickers will begin appearing on local, national US brands and Americans will discover the economic benefits of supporting their neighbors.
You certainly must know that Nissan is the biggest car manufacturer in NA, and that most Asian import brands are built in the US, while a very substantial percentage of domestic brand vehicles come from Mexico?
There is no specific benefit to supporting a company based either in the US or outside of it, if the manufacturing is done in the US. The profits accrue to the stock holders, who might be of any nationality. Plenty of Americans hold Toyota stock. And foreigners can and do hold Ford and GM stock, never mind FCA.
Agreed. What Detroit metal was the typical Camry buyer lusting after? A Chevy Citation?
Anyone buying mainstream foreign cars back then was buying them because they were NOT Broughams. I grew up in a well-to-do East Coast suburb in the ’70s and ’80s and most of the people we knew drove VW’s, Toyotas, Hondas, or Datsuns–relatively few drove American cars. To people like this, Broughams were considered ridiculous–space-inefficient, fuel-inefficient, shoddily assembled, poorly designed, unreliable, unfashionable, ugly boats that handled like a hippopotamus on ice skates, wallowed all over the parkways, and couldn’t get out of their own way in the snow. Once the foreign manufacturers provided an alternative, people rushed to buy them.
As far as buying local goes, Chevy just announced that it’s moving production of the Cruze to Mexico, so, so much for that. Buying “American” means much, much less these days than it used to. Better off buying a Kentucky-made Toyota than a Mexican Cruze if you want to support American workers.
Most people really don’t care about driving fast, anyway, which is why today’s 300-hp Camry engines are such a joke. Most people just want to get from one place to another in a reliable, roomy, fuel-efficient car. 0-60 in 14 seconds is better than good enough for 75% of the public. I don’t think it was much different in the ’70s.
There is quite a debate over the national identity of Camry made in Kentucky. It’s hard to answer, but for some other cars probably it’s easier.
Just like this Volga Siber. Even wearing the old deer badge doesn’t turn it too Russian really. ( but the car is humble to start with also ) and I think Chrysler should be partially responsible for the demise of Volga.
“I assure you that the typical Camry buyer was not “ashamed for lusting in his heart for Detroit metal.” The exact opposite; he was shamed at having been fooled into buying junky Detroit metal that didn’t hold up. And ashamed that his country was building such crappy cars.”
Really? You know the minds of all new car buyers in the early 1980s? Wow, that is a unique talent. So when are you going to be on the Tonight Show?
Did GM screw up? Yep! Repeatedly? Yep! Do we need to rehash it every week? Nope!
You know the minds of all new car buyers in the early 1980s?
No; he said “typical”, and I responded in kind. Typical = generalization. Does not apply to all, obviously. It’s my opinion vs. his. You can have yours. I didn’t pretend that this generalization is backed by actual facts of all Camry buyers.
So are you suggesting we stop covering all Japanese cars? Or all GM cars? That covers a lot of ground. The decline and death of GM is the biggest event in automotive history of the whole modern era; it’s a bit hard to pretend it didn’t happen. I’m not so much into massive denial.
For my experience, the best thing about the 1970s was President Nixon – at least from my perspective with my USAF experience, the last of the pillarless hardtops, the start of a real career, getting married to Wifey and the birth of our son.
All else? Phooey.
Don’t forget, car lovers, Nixon was responsible for creating the EPA by Executive Order (ratified by Congress afterwards). Contrary to what much propaganda insinuates about him, and to what I believed as a child, he was no small-gov’t conservative.
His intervention in the Yom Kippur War also brought on the 1973 Oil Crisis. Previously, the US was not a major player in Mideast affairs.
So I think the Malaise Era, to the extent Presidential actions had an effect, was more Nixon’s doing than Carter’s.
Camry isn’t Pandora’s box really. If there is one, it must be Chrysler K cars ( plus, it’s more roomy inside ) But that thing just looks more ugly ( for the upright roof on most K cars. Roof looks much better on Plymouth Caravelle with extra window treatment similar to what this Camry showed ) and handle is typical penalty box level ( so I am really curious about what K-car LeBaron GTS handles like and how it is better than Mercedes 190E Audi 5000S and BMW 528e )
Dodge Aries, Plymouth Reliant K and all those derivatives served the purposes ( efficient and economy, cheap and roomy, suitable to family, fairly reliable with better rust-resistance) so well that eventually people avoided it like a plague, because it’s a K car!
“The Carter Malaise years were a rude awakening for Americans. We just couldn’t catch a break. Vietnam, Watergate, inflation, gas shortages and then Jimmy Carter? America had a full decade of suck. The Brougham Age crapped out right along to the disco beat and cocaine.”
In a decade with Donny and Marie things just weren’t that bad!
We were far from loaded financially, my folks avoided hair shirts, my dad wore a pretty standard suit to work, and drove B-Body GM’s until most of them were killed off then switched to Panther Fords. The key was that my dad took car of those cars, got good life out of them, and that saved hime a ton of money. He also didn’t run in a panic to the latest “gas saver” everytime gas prices spiked – high payments and associated higher insurance and taxes on new cars sucked the so called savings out of millions of “sky is falling” consumers.
I paid $1.23 for my first gallon of gas in 1982, saw a low of about 73 cents in 1988, saw gas fall to just under a buck in early 2000, paid almost $5.00 a gallon in 2008 in the Grand Canyon on vacation, and paid $1.71 this past January. I’ve had at least one V-8 in my garage since 1982, and currently have three. It’s never been a problem, but then one of my V-8s is a well cared for 13 year old.
Remind me to write a thank you note to my dad!
I would LOVE to get my hands on a clean gen 1 camry like this, particularly in 5spd, loaded up form. Boxy blue interior? love it. Soft blue velour fabric? Love it some more. Tidy exterior dimensions with sturdy bumpers and good ground clearance? Yes please!!
My family ended up being Honda people when we immigrated to the US from Russia (and from a 1972 ZAZ 966). Our first car in 1992 was a brown/rusty 1982 Civic Wagon 5spd, which was like a sports car and cadillac, wrapped up into one after the old Soviet steed. We continued our ascent up the Civic generations (1985 Civic Sedan in 1994, replaced with a 1990 Civic Wagon in 1996 after the ’85 got totaled). We only sampled the Toyota flavor when we decided to have 2 cars in the family (true oppulence to former Soviet citizens at the time!), my dad bought a ’78 Corolla 2 door sedan off a coworker for $1. Former california car, mustard yellow with a lot of rust. manual everything, with a 4spd stick. Very rusty, as it had lived in central NY for atleast 7 years (?) prior to us buying it. We regretfully sold it to our mechanic after it failed the state inspection in spectacular fashion: the car started to bend in half on the lift! it had served us faithfully for 2 totally problem free years, besides a leaky brake master cylinder as I recall. After that we moved on to Mazda MPVs, first a 1989, then a 1998, both excellent vehicles. Finally the 1990 Civic was retired in favor of a brand new 2007 Fit (base model, manual). That was the first car my family bought new, my dad still drives it now, using it as his little trucklet to transport tools, implements, and beehives to and from their little homestead near Spencer NY. My mother now drives a 2009 RX350, a car they bought as a super low mile 3 year old vehicle, they’ve been thrilled with it on long road trips down to Florida that they take every year.
Sorry to ramble! But I guess The point I originally wanted to make was that had that first car been a Corolla, we probably would have become lifelong Toyota folks.
This is a very, very rare Camry with a manual transmission – almost all of them have slushboxes. I can count the number of manual-shift equipped Camrys of all generations over 30 years I’ve seen on one hand.
I had a friend in high school with a manual of this generation, though it was a base model rather than a loaded example like the featured car. I knew they were very uncommon in subsequent generations, but I would have thought a good number of these 1st-gen cars came so equipped?
Manuals were not uncommon in the 1st generation at all, but declined in numbers very quickly as the Camry’s position went upscale. People forget that the nameplate started out as a smaller, more spartan model line in the 1980s. It wasn’t until Gen3 (1992+) that the vast majority built were LE and XLE models with power windows and automatics. These took off in popularity so much faster than the early ones, that it formed people’s image of “Camry” as being a slightly luxurious, Buick-like car.
A lot of the 1983-1986 models were Base and DX trim with those rough, burlap-sack cloth seats and manual everything. They were well built and had a smooth ride, but very basic mechanically and as far as options went. When the 1992 models were introduced, DX trim with manual transmission became the practically non-existent base model that dealers stocked maybe one or two of. By the 2000s you pretty much had to special order a stick shift Camry, although they were technically built all the way until 2011.
Agree with the other folks – I was in high school during much of the Gen 1 Camry and it seems that manual transmissions weren’t that uncommon.
One of my high school gym teachers had a Gen 2 Camry wagon with a stick. That’s one I’d like to see again.
The small handful of Gen 1 Camrys still running around here exhibit the two defining characteristics of ’80s Toyotas – bulletproof drivetrains and extreme rust.
This model Camry was never really sold down here NZ got FWD Coronas and Aussie was stuck with revamped RWD Coronas the FWD Camry didnt show up untill the 2nd gen models and only very briefly for NZ as the 3rd gen landed here for beta testing in 89/90 while OZ and the rest of the world enjoyed their 2,5 V6s NZ buyers were treated to the hotrod 3L nobody else ever saw, the rest is history in 94 every one got basically the same Camry with minor suspension and steering rack differences for different markets but it was detuned from those quick 89-92 models and sold like beer at a rugby game.
We Aussies never saw this Camry in sedan form, but it was sold as a Liftback, equipped and priced at a sizeable premium over the rubbish Coronas that were assembled here. Toyota finally realised it wasn’t the ’70s any more, and binned the truly awful RWD T140 Corona for the second-gen Camry. And never looked back.
I rented one of the 1 Gen’s during a trip to San Diego. The hot sun during that August week outgased the plastic interior for the whole week! One of the most horrible smells ever.
I like these 1st-gen Camrys, especially in hatchback form. They had that “fast” angle to the back glass which gave them a very nice profile, similar to the 626 hatches of the late 80’s /early 90’s. And in full two-tone dress like the featured car, the sedans could be quite spiffy also. I liked the suggestion of skirting given by the flat-topped rear arches (a stylistic tie with the also new-for-1983 Audi 100 C3). And in general it was a clean shape that manages to retain some character despite its simple boxy nature.
The featured Camry must be an ’86, correct? It has the composite lamps (which came in for either ’85 or ’86) and appears to have a CHMSL.
Paul,
I’m not sure that Lee Iacocca’s interest in traditional rear wheel drive automobiles was the sole cause of Ford’s financial distress during the 1970s.
I think Ford’s problems through that era were much more complex.
I didn’t say “sole”. Given that this article was not about Ford’s problems of the 70s, I didn’t exactly go into greater detail.
But it does sum up Ford’s problems fairly well for a single line. GM committed billions to downsizing; Ford and Chrysler didn’t; at least not quickly enough. Both Ford and Chrysler then had near-brushes with bankruptcy in 1979-1980, whereas GM had a big increase in market share at their expense. Ford’s product line was very out of date and favor with the consumers in the last years of the 70s, especially when gas prices soared again.
Would you like to elaborate further?
Not only is the Camry in pristine condition, it’s even a manual transmission. If not the original owner, whoever was lucky enough to find this example appreciates what they have and is continuing to take care of it. Wonder how many miles are on it? Great looking interior for an 80’s car. It’s doubtful this car ever saw a salted road.
Why couldn’t it? You’ve heard of car washes?
Doesn’t take much to keep a classic clean, pal.
On a cold winter day, car wash could just coat a layer of ice on white cars.
Where do you wash your car, outdoors? I take mine through washes in anything above -15F or so. I don’t use them when it’s colder than that because I have seen rear windows break when the warm water is sprayed on them (worked my way through school working at a wash). If I do, I make dang sure the inside is good and warm first.
Thanks, Phil…
Exactly, what I meant. When I take a classic for a spontaneous “quick clip” around the neighborhood…
I take it indoors, at my friend’s steel garage(more like an old airplane hangar), and wash it there.
Washing a car with cold icy water is just plain stupid… I hate frozen door locks. 🙂
Even through an automatic car wash, the hot water they used only did a little help. Water immediately froze on mirrors after driving outside, and the trail of rust still showed around body trims. ( hard to observe on white cars, but hanging down ice around quarter panels indicates something is wrong ) Usually black cars and dark blue ones fare better.
And few moments after leaving the car wash, it would be hard to just knock the frozen door open. That’s a problem living in colder areas.
It is highly unlikely a Toyota of this vintage in this condition spent much time in the salt belt. It would indeed take a huge effort to keep this particular car rust-free. Practically impossible.
Exactly. Car washes (always wondered what those were) alone won’t keep the tin worm away.
Count me grateful. If it wasn’t for great cars like Camry and Accord, we would all be driving $35,000 Pintos and Chevettes.
My friend had one of these recently. Low mileage and very solid. It got a re-spray in brownish-grey colour and looked very classy. Well it was a Mercedes colour and it sure dressed up the car. Unfortunatly his ex took it when they split up and she gave it to her cousin who no doubt thoroughly trashed it by now.
I didn’t get to drive it but I did ride around in it a few times. Even the back seat was comfortable enough. I’m 6ft tall with long legs and arms and because I’m far sighted I tend to be slightly claustophobic. It’s not just the amount of space for me but the perception of space that distinguishes a comfortable ride from “let me out I’ve had enough!”
Love these older cars with the tall greenhouse, low beltline and no enormous flying buttress centre console encroaching on my personal space. I would take one of these in a heartbeat if I could find one in solid condition. There is one still tooling around here in east Hamilton that is just starting to get a little shabby. Now would be a good time to save it before it gets too bad. Wait, there is another one that I’ve seen in the last year or two that is in the same condition as the subject car only tan and beige two tone.
I had an 84 whose life was cut too short by an accident (the car, all involved were fine). This one is pretty and seeing as it’s a 5-speed, I’d take it in a heartbeat.
A couple of addenda to a good overview:
Toyota and Ford had done the potential coproduction dance before: back in 1960 with the first-generation Toyota Publica. The Publica was the result of a MITI program to develop a cheap people’s car (hence the name) with a two-cylinder engine of about 800cc. At the time, there was serious talk about Japan opening up its trade borders (which didn’t really happen, but was floated as a real possibility). Toyota explored a joint venture with Ford, figuring that if there were going to be gaijin competing in the Japanese market, Toyota might as well get a piece of the action. It didn’t come to pass, but the companies did talk about it quite a bit.
The V10 Camry seen here is technically the second-generation Camry. The first was a short-lived rear-drive sedan offered from about 1980 to 1982.
In Japan, different Toyota products are sold through different dealer networks (although that’s becoming less the case than it once was). The Corolla was sold through its own network along with the Celica and Supra while the bigger Corona was sold through Toyopet stores and the Carina (which was closely related to the Celica) was sold through Toyota stores.
In the late ’70s, Toyota decided that Corolla stores could benefit from having something bigger than the Corolla for buyers to potentially trade up. In the short term, the solution was to create a slightly restyled Carina (which was still RWD, like the Celica), which was sold through Corolla dealerships as the Celica Camry (!). Toyota had of course realized that FWD was going to be a necessity in that class and was already making plans to shift the Corolla and Carina/Corona to FWD platforms, so the Celica Camry was a stopgap while they worked on the FWD version, which also had the American market very much in mind.
In Japan, the FWD Camry was still sold through Corolla dealers, as was the later Windom (the JDM version of the Lexus ES), which became sort of the Corolla chain’s flagship.
If nothing else, you can stump people by asking if they’ve ever heard of the four-door Celica…
I thought I was one of the only few who knew about the Celica Camry… The true 1st gen Camry(in Japan), was a RWD model based on the Corona/Celica/Carina platform.
The grille looked similar to the one found on the 1st generation 1979-81 Toyota Supra. Interesting.
It also had the 14in Supra/Celica alloy rims. From the rear, the Celica Camry bears a striking resemblance to an 81-84 Cressida. The tail lights look like the ones on my 84 Cressida, I used to own.
,,, and a stick too. I want it!
Twenty-three years ago, I was in college and driving an Audi 4000S quattro. My girlfriend was a two-time homecoming queen with a first-generation Camry. Both cars were silver. One day my neighbor saw her car in front of my house with signs of being sideswiped. He asked me about my quattro being dented, prompting me to run to the parking lot. When I mentioned his confusion to her she was deeply offended that someone could confuse her wonderful Camry with my stupid German car, such was her love for her used Toyota after suffering through three new Saab 900s and a new Wagoneer. She still had that Camry after I’d used up another Audi and was half way through my first BMW. Maybe she was onto something.
We had a 1979 Corona SW when the first gen Camry came out. At the time it seemed like most of them were the hatch backs which I did not find appealing. Funny thing is that I have not seen a first gen Camry on the road in at least a decade. Not like I live in the rust belt. What made these cars disappear from the road so quickly? On the other hand Hondas of that period are still roaming the Houston streets in large numbers.
As for me I still see a good number of the 1982-85 Honda Accord’s around but don’t see too many 1st generation Toyota Camry’s around anymore, I still see a large number of the 2nd generation Toyota Camry’s around (many of which are in good shape).
I assume this is somewhere out West or Southwest? I could only dream of browsing the craigslist up here in the salted-road north for a cheap little 80s Japanese sedan for commuting in. I have very fond memories of my dad’s friends ’84 Accord, driving out to Safe Haven NY to go fishing in Lake Ontario. Maroon with red velour interior, I remember riding around in the back seat playing with the door mounted ash trays. Those were really nicely finished cars.
A few years makes a big difference. Haven’t seen an Accord prior to 1990 on the road here in the Bay Area in five years. On Craigslist have seen two in the last three years. Have seen one Camry prior to 1990 on the road last year and maybe two to three on Craigslist in the last three years and I keep an eye out for both.
Bought an ‘84 Camry in August of that year. Traded an ‘81 Accord in on it and immediately appreciated the extra room as our second child was due before eoy. Great hiway car with the OD, only moved on to a new ‘87 Caravan with the birth of number 3.
At that point, I recognized the pattern.
These cars do nothing for me. However I have two things with this generation. First one is that my father bought one second hand, it must have been 4 or 5 years old. I did not live at my parents anymore so did not drive it much. I remember it because my father loved its electric windows, it was his first car equipped so. He did not keep it long, rust had started quite bad so he exchanged it for another Japanse car (a Honda Concerto).
Second titbit is that I always thought the rear wheel arch was a copy of the Triumph “big” saloon Mk2 (2000/2500). There might have been many more cars with this kind of wheel arch, where the top part flows to the back, but as we had such a Triumph before I always am remembered by that.
This was obviously an excellent car and Ford blew it. There would have been a lot of sore egos if Ford incorporated what made the first Camry into the Ford organization. Lots of people were committed to doing the Taurus their way and possibly saw the Toyota approach in an unappreciative manner. Don’t pass up excellence. Investigate it and incorporate it.