(first posted 12/13/2016) It’s no secret that I’ve been a longtime, nearly lifetime fan of the second generation Acura Legend. And while it was the far more frequently seen sedan I fell in love with and put this car on my radar, the more elusive coupe was clearly the stunner of the duo, and a vehicle that still turns heads today.
Honda released its second generation Legend for the 1991, bringing forth a car that was larger, more luxurious, more powerful, and far more distinguished in all aspects. Now boasting a larger 3.2L SOHC V6 with 200 horsepower, the Legend was better-suited to go up against luxury cars from Europe, as well as its recent homeland competitors. In addition to superior driving dynamics, mounting the engine longitudinally allowed for a lower hood and very convincing rear-wheel drive proportions, despite the car retaining its predecessor’s front-wheel drive layout.
As with before, sedan and coupe bodystyles shared the same design language but in fact shared no sheetmetal in common. Though both exuded athletic cues, in keeping with its more conservative image, the sedan boasted a more formal and stately presence. The coupe meanwhile, sported much bolder, more chiseled styling for a far more dramatic and head turning appearance.
Although grille and taillights between the coupe and sedan were similar in shape, the coupe presented a somewhat sleeker front end, with a more back-swept nose, smaller grille, and elongated, wraparound headlights. Sportier-looking side wing mirrors and frame-less door glass further enhanced the coupe’s more aggressive appearance. And oh, yes, the power rear windows still rolled down.
Versus the sedan’s softer rear end with wraparound taillights, the Legend coupe featured a “chopped off” tail influenced by that of the NSX supercar. Equally different on the coupe, was the way its C-pillars flowed into the rear quarter panels without significant belt line intrusion, for a look that was almost reminiscent of Chrysler’s Fuselage cars.
With respect to the original Legend, wheelbases for the second generation coupe and sedan were both up between 5-6 inches, though overall length was only up by 3-4 inches, making for more athletic proportions. Front overhang in particular, was very minimal for a front-wheel drive car of that era.
Inside, there were far fewer differences between the coupe and sedan, and things were a clear step up from the previous Legend. Passengers were treated to a comfortable and well-crafted interior, trimmed in high quality and seamlessly-fitting plastics, leathers (or standard cloth in lower trims), chrome and wood trim. LS coupes/sedans and GS sedans added genuine burled walnut trim to the center console and door panels, while L and SE (sedan only; 1995) models made due with the fake, but still decently attractive stuff.
(Legend LS coupe interior with genuine burl walnut trim)
All second generation Legend presented their drivers with a very easy-to-use and easy-to-see layout, with the dash and door panels boasting a grander, less cobbled-together appearance over the original’s. Besides the obviously smaller rear seat, the Legend coupe also featured more thickly-bolstered front buckets, with automatic transmission cars gaining the “joystick” shifter for a slightly racier vibe. Only 1994-1995 automatic GS sedans would ever get this gearshift.
(Legend L coupe interior with darker faux woodgrain trim)
In keeping with the Legend coupe’s somewhat more exclusive, personal luxury image, the sedan’s base, wood trim-less model was never offered on the coupe. Instead, the mid-level L model was the least expensive way one could get into a new Legend coupe, for some $39,980 USD ($63,414 as of 12/2016) in this car’s 1995 model year.
Acura did it due diligence by giving the second generation Legend meaningful upgrades and enhancements over the course of its lifespan. Dual front airbags were made standard in all coupes in 1992, and across the board for 1993. Leather upholstery also became standard on all coupes beginning in 1993, and in 1994 a power tilt-telescoping steering wheel working in conjunction with the driver’s memory seat became standard. Revised bumpers and side moldings came in 1994, but the big news came one year prior in the form of powertrain.
New for 1993 and only found in the Legend coupe (as standard equipment) was the Type II performance variation of the standard Honda C32A V6. Using a higher flowing intake manifold, larger intake valves, and a higher lift camshaft, the Type II produced an additional 30 horsepower and 6 lb-ft torque, for output of 230 horsepower and 206 lb-ft torque. The Type II also used shorter gear ratios, and was available with a 6-speed manual versus the 5-speed found in other Legends.
Now I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. “Legend” was, and still very much is, the perfect name for this car. Acura has certainly made many good cars over the years, but in common Japanese fashion, very few have displayed such personality, character, and above all, emotion as the Legend. In retrospect, the Legend is a quite legendary car.
More so, in terms of profitability, the Legend sold well for a car of its class, with sales only trailing off significantly in its final, albeit abbreviated season. I don’t have a breakdown of coupe vs sedan sales, but it’s clear the percentage of sales skewed toward sedans by a large amount. Ultimately, it was the brand equity in the name “Legend” that was quite possibly even more valuable to Honda and Acura than the profit off units sold.
Even if people weren’t within the means of buying one, the Acura Legend was a very well known car in its day. And Legend goes it (no pun intended) this was the main reason for dumping models names such as Legend and Integra in favor or alphanumeric designations — apparently, Legend had greater recognition and notoriety among consumers than the name “Acura”. “Legend” certainly had more gusto to it, I’ll give it that.
Maybe that’s why you heard rappers like Notorious B.I.G. mentioning the Legend in their music, and Ludacris very publicly still owns one. After the Legend departed, no one was celebrating or bragging about their “3.5 RL”. Killing off a nameplate with the sheer equity of the Legend remains one of Honda’s biggest mistakes of all time. I’ll even go so far as to call it a Deadly Sin.
Honda/Acura flagships produced since its departure have not been bad cars, however none have matched the same level of praise, notoriety, and appeal of the 1991-1995 Legend. As a result, for the past two decades, it is a car, or at least nameplate that countless Acura owners/enthusiasts have been clamoring for Honda to bring back to the North American market.
P.S. — This second generation Legend coupe article proudly completes my series of representing both body styles of both generation Acura Legends, in true Curbside Classic form of course.
Featured 1995 Taffeta White Legend L coupe photographed: Norwell, MA – October 2016
Supplementary 1995 Milano Red Legend LS coupe photographed: New York, NY – May 2014 – Courtesy of William Stopford
Related Reading:
1988 Acura Legend coupe (Brendan Saur)
1989 Acura Legend LS sedan (Brendan Saur)
1994 Acura Legend LS coupe (Tyson Hugie)
1994 Acura Legend LS sedan (Brendan Saur)
I am less of a fan of the second generation Legend. The release was the same time as the Lexus and Infinity came out with their rear drive V8 flagships. The Legend had grown to the size but was still front drive and had (progressed?)to a 90 degree V6. It could be no other way, small front drive was all Honda did, but it left the Legend an also ran. This massively degraded the Acura name as a step below Lexus and Infiniti. Even with Acura first to market,
We rag on GM for turning virtually the whole line front drive, but to me this was worse. A rear drive flagship is needed but is left undone because Honda does not have the parts bin or experience to pull it off. Showing that despite the success they were a second string player.
But John, don’t you often rail against all cars “becoming the same” and too many automakers copying the Germans? At the time, too, there were many FWD premium models like the Alfa Romeo 164, Saab 9000 and Sterling/Rover 800.
And while Acura today sits more in the near-luxury segment alongside brands like Volvo and Lincoln, one has to consider that Lexus and Infiniti’s products aren’t all “tier 1” luxury models. Look at the Lexus ES, or go back further and look at the Infiniti I30/I35. Were those considered more upmarket and prestigious than a Legend? Nope.
Honda may have been a superstar in North America but it was one of the smallest of the Japanese automakers. Investing in RWD platforms and V8 engines could have proved a fool’s errand, particularly considering Mazda scrapped their Amati brand because the numbers weren’t adding up.
While Acura lacks the prestige of Lexus today, it’s likely Acura is still a very profitable endeavour for Honda because of the shared platforms. And I dare say Lexus’ profitability is aided considerably by staples like the ES, even as Lexus pursues a more extroverted and sporting image.
I am not suggesting copying the Germans, although a few German automakers would benefit from remembering what they once were. Ate up with Motor mentions the possibility of a V10 based off of the Acura 5. Ideal perhaps with grafted on AWD as was done eventually with the RL. But just leaving it with a torqueless Buick engine with a hot camshaft and a manual transmission as a thin no torque bandaid is pathetic. Don’t misunderstand me. the Legend was okay for a near lux, but no flagship.
It was a small company and maybe the mid eighties profits were not enough. That is the talk of a small man and sure enough by 95 the glory years of Honda were behind them,
There is just one word to describe the Acura Legend Coupe / Sedan that ran from 1992-1995. That one word is “Perfect”.
Subtract the sometimes over heating that could occur due to faulty thermostats, if not changed routinely. Other than that these cars were given the correct name, since both were “Legends” for there time.
Sadly, this is when Acura was at it’s peak. The Replacement RL/TL models could not follow up. so Acura suffered the same fate as Lexus did in the late 90’s. They became boring bland mobiles that appealed to the same crowd that purchased Buick Park Avenue’s & Le Sabre’s. The Acura was simply viewed as a notch up. The 1996 CL coupe was not bad, but no where close to the Legend SC coupe.
The Honda C-block engines were all 90 degrees, with a balance shaft. (The C32A engine in these cars was modified quite a bit for the longitudinal installation, but it was still a direct descendant of the C25A engine in the first Legend.)
Honda did consider doing a RWD flagship; there were rumors that it would have a 4.0-liter V-10 based on the G-block five in the Vigor. Exactly how serious they were, I’m not sure. What scared them off was mostly two things: First, by the time they would have really gotten into the project, the Japanese economy was tanking, which was making money pretty tight and made a new high-end car a dicey financial bet. Second, they blew a bunch of money on the longitudinal engines and the five-cylinder, which were both essentially what happens when you let engineers triumph over product planners. So, that became a strong internal argument for taking a more conservative tack and reining in the more wild-eyed among the R&D staff.
Whether a RWD V-10 flagship would have worked had they built one is another question. From a commercial standpoint, probably not; I suspect they would have ended up in the same boat that Infiniti did in the mid-90s. The Inspire/Saber/TL ended up being a much better seller — it was the first Honda luxury line that actually did good business in Japan — even if it wasn’t all that interesting.
Was the first Honda Legend not as successful in Japan? It does seem that rather than a stepping stone to the top tier it was their pinnacle despite the limitations and collaborations inherent in it.
I don’t have complete JDM sales figures, but the ones I have are not good. Honda was facing an uphill battle in Japan in a couple of ways — they didn’t have the dealer base (Honda’s attempts to grow its dealer base in this era didn’t pan out very well) and they didn’t have the brand loyalty in what was really a very conservative market segment — and they made a couple of fairly significant miscalculations. I think Rover bore a certain amount of responsibility as well, because their ambivalence about how to position the 800 in the European market had some influence on how the first Legend took shape.
I remember regretting choosing a Navy rating like storekeeper when the Operations Specialists and Sonar Technicians were getting reenlistment bonuses and buying cars like this. One of the chiefs on my second ship had one – beige/gold, and quite the chick magnet. His SRB was HUGE….I had to make do with my lowly, quality-challenged Sundance.
I always thought these coupes were wonderful. They looked sleek and powerful at the same time. I aspired to one of these when they were new.
When Acura dropped names in favor of letters/numbers I started to have a hard time telling which Acura was which. And now that I’m in a place where I could actually afford an Acura if I wanted one, their generic sameness makes me not care.
They’ve continued to use the Legend name in other markets, so the fact that they’ve clung to the confusing RL/RLX badging here is perplexing.
Jim Grey
I agree, these models represented the peak of Acura’s popularity. The coupe was simply the best coupe of the time (for it’s class).
However, after 1995, the replacements the RL/TL etc, were just too bland and would ultimately suffer the same fate as Lexus did in the late 90’s. In that they became too bland and conservative in design. Both Lexus and Acura had lost it’s youth appeal if you will. They targeted the older folks that purchased Buick Park Avenue’s.
Also the RL that replaced the Legend in 1996 was a dud. The reason being that the V5 engine was too small for such a large car, and ultimately had so many problems that the brand suffered for this. Lost it’s golden halo of quality that was present in both the 1986-1991 first generation, as well as the generation above.
It also did not help that towards the mid 90’s that Gangsta rap videos had Acura Legends in them as a staple. So the model would soon become merged (image wise), with urban culture and drug raids seen on television always had the dealer Acura Legend Coupe in the background..lol.
Anyway, I think the last 2-3 years Acura has been on the rebound. Especially after the horrid “Big Tooth” goofy looking front grill that was a disgrace to the brand.
I think the association that the car became synonymous with “urban culture” and drug raids is a bit of a stretch. And even if that was a noticeable trend, what would you propose to do about it? Trying to make sure “the wrong type of people” don’t aspire to your product is a minefield for so, so many very valid reasons.
For whatever reason that often helps rather than hinders. Witness the Escalade phenomenon…The seemingly preferred ride of drug dealers, gangbangers, rappers, NFL stars with questionable emotional control, and of course lots of little 105lb blond moms at our local elementary school.
Jim Klein
I will tag along with a few other examples below.
Early 1980’s Chevrolet Conversion full size vans with no windows. Where known as the male sexual abuse ride of choice. Think “Buffalo Bill” from Silence of the Lambs.
Volkswagon Beatle – The Hippy mobile
A Minivan of any Brand – Was the suburban Soccer mom choice.
Caprice Classic/Ford Crown Vic – known as Cop / Taxi cab cars
Cadillac Sedan De’Ville (1980’s models)-A pimps ride of choice.
Chevrolet Cavalier / Sunfire – The working poor choice of ride.
Subaru – is known as the Lesbian ride of choice.
Any pickup Truck – The rural working class “Redneck” demo
Toyota Camry – Super Conservative personality
Just joking, and serious at the same time. but Tbh we all probably secretly think the cars go with the descriptions I mentioned above (not always). Cars can also have stereotypes attached to them, just like people. Like clothing, a car can at times reflect the character of it’s owner!
Stereotype much?
What I meant by the Legend being associated with “Urban Culture” is similar to how the Cadillac Escalade became the cool star to the youth and celebrities back in the late 90’s.
Prior to the launch of the Escalade. The Cadillac brand was associated with senior citizens, church pastors, and funeral homes (De’Ville-Hearse). Because the Catera that tried to attract younger buyers flopped.
It was not until rapper’s and athletes started bragging about the Escalade. Placing huge wheels on the SUV, and tricked out colors that got the ball rolling for Cadillac again to be cool, appeal to a younger demographic etc (it worked). Even Cadillac Executives admit this, they admit that due to the heavy rotation of the Escalade being shown in heavy rotation on chart topping rap video’s and the celebrity world accepting the Escalade. Cadillac admitted they used very little $$ for advertisement. Since a rapper with a number # 1 charting song / vid did all the advertising for them.
Even today in 2016, whenever MotorTrend, Automobile Magazines do write up on the Escalade. They always make sure to mention its success was due to the younger generation giving it the “Cool” stamp of approval. they even admitted that extra chrome was used to give it the “Bling Bling Effect” (lil Waynes famous words). For me personally I did not know what a Acura Legend was until I saw one in the Wu Tang Video from back in the day. I instantly wanted one after I saw it in the rap video.
It’s like how in the mid 80’s, BMW’s where known as the “Yuppie Mobiles”. Specifically the 3-series convertibles were known as the car the rich guy bought for his side mistress. 80’s movies showed this often, so that’s what people began to associate the brand with (even today)…just my two cents. I see you’re POV also.
One interesting detail about the KA7/KA8 Legend is that the manual gearbox was mostly for North America. It wasn’t offered at all in Japan or the U.K. and I’m not sure if it was available in Australia or Continental markets. The engines were similar, although JDM engines had higher compression and a little more power. Japanese buyers also got a bunch of gadgets we did not.
For the most part, the Legend never did that well except in North America. It was never a big seller at home — if you were going to buy domestic, I think the obvious rivals were just too well-entrenched — and European buyers were never really convinced.
It’s funny how the “lazy American” stereotype survives throughout the world and American car buyers are often perceived as only wanting big trucks or cushy domestic sedans. Despite this, numerous cars have had manual transmissions developed for them basically to satisfy the American market.
According to Redbook (no pun intended), the Legend was only offered with a manual transmission in Australia from 1986 until 1987. I’ll bet sales were infinitesimally small. We have been generally less likely to receive manual transmissions in premium/luxury models here than the US. For example, the 1990-94 Nissan Maxima was always automatic-only here.
“…numerous cars have had manual transmissions developed for them basically to satisfy the American market.”
That surprised me.
On some sites, you almost have to apologize for wanting or driving an automatic, despite the fact that nearly all new cars and trucks in the US are equipped with them. While I enjoy driving a manual, my left knee does not! 🙂
I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of low end torque. In other markets, no one expects any. In the USA? The manual will hide the lack somewhat and will be the model the buff books test. This avoids the critique.
Given how many buyers were probably coming from Accords having completely bypassed the domestics so just do not know what they are missing.
A fair number of U.S. road tests of the KA7 Legend sedan were of the automatic, which really had very respectable performance. There are a variety of valid criticisms to be made of the KA7, but its torque output was really pretty stout, and a big improvement over the first-generation Legend. I am clearly not going to shake your chauvinism with facts, though.
The coupe had it’s torque peak at 5000 rpm and more than 10% less torque than horsepower. Even the same year BMW M3 had more torque from a smaller engine and peaked at 4250rpm. From this, similar to the Chrysler 2.7, it was tuned to allegedly have a high horsepower number, with little regard to how it feels in real life luxury service. The Chrysler 2.7 faired very badly in tests with a similar horsepower 3800 as would this compared to a competition V8. A cheaper 3800? Lots of Olds people missed the 3800 when the Shortstar came out
I’m not sure that every driver in the US – or indeed, anywhere – is as cognisant of torque as you believe. Yes, it is something that you feel more than horsepower but “good low-end torque” isn’t the only consideration for buyers. You often bring up torque figures and yes, this is traditionally where the domestics have been better performers, but it isn’t the be-all and end-all. A prospective buyer is probably just as likely to notice an unrefined engine note, a clunky transmission or an ugly or cheap-feeling interior as he/she will notice a lack of low-end torque.
This was, believe it or not, an area where the first-generation Legend got a lot of criticism even in Japan. The C27A was much better, since it not only had more displacement, but was also tuned for a flatter torque curve, a trend Honda continued with the C32A. (I don’t imagine John will believe me, but with modern engines, the shape of the torque curve is more significant than the torque peak.)
In any event, instrumented tests peg KA7/KA8 Legends at 0-60 in about 8 seconds flat with automatic, which was not substantially slower than the five-speed cars and does not bespeak a particularly gutless or high-strung engine. The Type II was obviously a trifle peakier, which is what happens when you pull an extra 30 hp out of a reasonably efficient existing engine without variable valve timing or forced induction. (“Allegedly”? Okay…)
I agree William with most of what you say. But we are talking about the Legend in terms of it being a flagship, not just an upsized Accord. Honda had an opportunity with Acura. The Accords had delighted their owners in a way that Camry or Stanza weren’t. I personally abhor their politics, but these people were ready to open their checkbooks to see what the Honda team could do price no object
Therefore when the upgrade upon the doubling of price is something more like a 60s Chevy to 60s Buick there is a sense of let down. I have fixated on the engine because it was by design incapable of matching up. They clearly tuned it as best they could but in the end, no cigar. Honda charged the price but did not spend the money where it was needed.
People will talk that the RL was such a letdown but in reality it was a natural progression. Oh sure no more coupe or manual, but those were just pretentions to trick their customer. Now of course, Acura fights it out with Buick and Genesis. Deserved.
These ended up with a 3.5? Perhaps that’s the next generation, still before the AWD one with lots of horsepower. I recall they had 147 kilowatts – the same as the then current 3 litre Accord. I can also confirm, being a trainspotter Wheels reader since an early age, that no manual Legend ever came to Oz.
In Europe, everybody expects a manual except on premium cars, in the US, everybody expects an automatic, except on performance cars, and almost not even then. Up until about the last few years, most European cars were manuals.
That means, a person looking for an automatic will not look at the cheap end of the spectrum, but will take for granted most premium cars are automatics. In the US, if automatics are the default choice, people will only look for a manual when that is required, ie in sports cars or cars with a sporty pretensions.
Besides, it’s a question of scale. In Europe, the European makers are so big everything else becomes just a trickle, and not even Cadillac could put a dent in that market, less so the Japanese. If the Legend sold a thousand cars per year on the European market, the requests for manuals must’ve been in the lower two-figures, but if they sold ten times that amount in the US, they could easily sell a thousand manual Legends for the sporty set.
By the ’80s, Japanese luxury car buyers’ interest in manual shifting was pretty minimal. Considering Japanese urban traffic, that’s not terribly surprising! Even in the Soarer/Cosmo class, manual gearboxes were pretty rare.
Rare as hens’ teeth in Austria, I have never seen a coupe here ever although they come up for sale from time to time. It was a very hard sell against the usual German suspects as sale price was as high as the equivalent Teutonic equivalents. Plus it is almost de rigor for a car in this class to have RWD – large FWD coupes were never very successful here.
I really liked these when they were new. But when Lexus and Infiniti moved up to big V8 luxury sedans, these were a step behind and remained there. The combination of a name change and the lack of gravitas when compared with top end Japanese competition would conspire to keep the later RL as an also-ran.
If I had ever known that these could be had with a stick, I had long forgotten it. I would absolutely drive one now.
Brendan,
Have you ever heard of that gentleman Tyson Hugie who owns a 1994 Legend LS Coupe with 550k miles on it? That car is remarkable. And he’s a total Acura fanatic who’s received recognition from the company.
Here is the link for his blog, Drive to Five: https://drivetofive.com/about/
Brendan linked to an article Tyson wrote here a few years back (third link under “Related Reading”, above). So I would wager Brendan has heard of him. 🙂
Yes PJ, and thanks. I’m actually quite good friends with him.
Much as I like these Legend coupes, I really prefer the styling of the previous generation. Wedgy shape, box fenders, and one of the most elegant and airy rooflines ever seen on a production car.
They each had their strong points and I like each generation coupe for different reasons. The first generation was decidedly more gracefully elegant in an understated way, while the second was much more aggressive and show-stopping.
I concur with everything that tonyola said. To me, the second generation had an awkward looking c-pillar and rear end, and it never stirred my passion as did the first generation. 🙂
I’m with you guys. The rear ends were awkward on these Legends. Not just the shape and massing but also those taillamps. The light-bar style on the 80s Legend sedan was dated by 1990 but those two CLEARLY! separated taillamps with no license plate holder in between, came off as too deliberate and graceless. The second gen Lexus LS handled it better. The funniest thing was on the ’95 Camry where Toyota went from the all-red light-bar to the one with the painted plastic piece between the taillamps. There was a strong backlash like the one away from tailfins in the mid-60s.
The funny thing is that Honda restyled the nose of later first-generation Legends for the Japanese market, with a faux grille and a bunch of extra chrome. (There were also fancier interior options toward the end.) I assume American Honda vetoed the changes as too frumpy — a matter of taste, obviously, but I’d tend to agree.
$39,980 sounds outrageous for that car 21 years ago.
Now in 2016 a choice of several very nice cars can be purchased for that amount $$.
Plus all would have more amenity’s included. Sorry I don’t see it as being a great car or good deal back then. JMO
W. Johnson
It seems like too many car companies are purging the pricing of cars today like crazy. I never thought I would see the day when a Chevrolet Malibu’s fully loaded with every option are now priced around 36K, and SS models climbing to a tad over $40K.
Perhaps it’s my age showing, but I can recall a time when young adults, say in the mid 90’s fresh out of college thought buying a Chevrolet Cavalier/Corolla for around $12-$14K new was the norm. Now I have younger cousins fresh out of college in 2016 with a job, and they go straight towards the $30K range cars like it’s nothing (and do not mind high car payments). I still think a $26-$30K car price is expensive..
But then again I started driving in 1992…
I thought that $39k price in 1995 dollars seemed extremely high as well and no doubt had something to do with the relative rarity of the car. (Most) cars today are a far better value for money even if the prices do (again) seem to be high for anything interesting as opposed to the mass-market candidates slogging it out.
I recall when the first Legend was introduced, much was made of the fact that it was the first Japanese car to broach the $25,000 barrier. For some strange reason, that has really stuck with me, and I subliminally ever since considered $25,000 as the dividing line between inexpensive and expensive when it comes to cars. My psyche does not make the adjustment for inflation, it looks at it in constant dollars. Weird, I know. I’ve spent much more than that amount on individual cars in the meantime but it has meant more consideration and realistic rationalization to myself every time I’ve done so.
Jim raises a good point there in how cars today are generally a better value for the money.
A 1995 Mercedes E320 sedan started at $43,500 ($68,997.45 adjusted). The 2017 E300 sedan starts at $51,150.
Mr Hartfield, I paid $11808 for my new 99 Cavalier. That included all rebates, etc.
4 speed auto, trac control [std on the 4A that year] ABS, AC.
I won’t pay what they’re asking these days, period. Better things to do with money.
I started driving in 1972. For $4995 new, my parents bought a genuine Brougham: a 1972 Ambassador. [ $29,000 in today’s dollars ,but my parents had been working for 2o years as well, far from 20 somethings ].
Like you, I think there came a time in my life where a line was drawn when it came to prices.
And, in my case, gadgets I won’t use or want in vehicles I don’t even find stylistically attractive.
$25-30,000 for the privilege of being in debt ? There is no way.
There’s this little thing called inflation… 🙂
The $11808 you paid in 1999 is some $17,000 today. That will get you a new Kia Forte (or comparable), a much better car than your Cavalier.
And the $4995 for the ’72 Ambassador is about $30,000 in today’s money. That will get you some very nicely equipped sedans, which are priced very aggressively these days.
Paul Neidermeyer
You make a good point, I never looked at it from that angle of thought you just described.
DweezilAZ
Yup, I know a friend that got his car repo’ed because he could not make the payments after having the car for 2.5 years.
I told him upfront that I thought paying a high car note was not worth it. But like many today. He had to have all the gadgets and bragging rights that he paid $44K for a brand new car.
He forgot that anything could happen in the span of a 5 year high car note (and it did). I drive a 2007 Honda Accord, no car payments. I will ride this car to the wheels fall off (Literally).
The Legend was a good deal back then. The price of a Mercedes 300E was $43,800 in 1993.
http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1993/Mercedes-Benz/300E-2-8/4-Door-Sedan/Values
The price of a 190 E was $34,000
http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1993/Mercedes-Benz/190E-2-6/4-Door-Sedan/Values
The Legend was much more car than a 190E.
A Cadillac Seville cost $36,990.
http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1993/Cadillac/Seville/4-Door-Sedan/Values
There was another differentiator: Service. Mercedes and BMW dealers were notoriously arrogant in that era… I owned a string of mere Integras between 1987 and 1997, and Acura treated me like a young prince.
German and American luxury cars warranties were short – at least compared to the 4-year, 50K mile warranty offered by Acura. Honda already had a stellar reputation for reliability by the 90’s; the warranty was just icing on the cake. I used to say that any price premium for an Acura was simply the cost of a factory extended warranty rolled into the original price.
I will throw one more comparison with the Acura. 1995 Buick Regal Gran Sport. $20530. Same exterior size with better space utilization. 200 pounds less weight. 90 degree V6 has more torque at lower rpm. Cloth seats and fake wood, just like Acura. Better mpgs 19/29 versus 19/24 for Acura. Gives you an idea of the premium you were paying .
John, with all due respect, the Buick Regal was not a realistic competitor the the Legend. You’re just throwing names around now. If the Regal GS was a competitor to the Legend, you can make the same case that the 1995 Camry XLE was a competitor to the BMW 525i. And the Camry was in fact 3 inches longer and 1 inch wider! Sit inside and get behind the wheel of a Regal vs a Legend or a Camry vs a 5 Series and you’ll see why there’s a price difference.
Acura was new and trying it’s best to build bigger Hondas. Much like GM was doing upsizing X cars into Ws. GM hoped you would pay a premium for a Buick as Honda did for an Acura.
The problem with your argument is that the Legend wasn’t a “bigger Honda”. This was not an upsized Accord, this was a totally unique platform with a longitudinal engine. The “bigger Honda” tag could fairly be applied to the Integra, TL, or TSX I suppose, but not to the Legend. Was an Eldorado a better Monte Carlo?
I mean really, if you think about it, the Mark VII/VIII were “bigger (and better) Thunderbirds”. Didn’t stop Ford from asking luxury coupe prices, and from people happily ponying up.
Apparently John is unfamiliar with these cars. The Legend was a true luxury car in every aspect – size, comfort, quality of materials, prestige, and fit and finish. An overgrown Honda it was certainly not. And it was certainly not a mainstream sedan like a Regal. My sister owned a 1987 Legend sedan and a 1992 Legend LS sedan, and I can personally attest to the fact that these were solid, well-built cars worthy of a luxury nameplate.
Could the fans flesh this out a little more. Was the fit and finsh of higher grade than an Accord? Was the leather? The suspension design seems based on an Accord and the 90 degree V6 was a welcome addition, but a definite downgrade over what came from a luxury brand. The features list looks roughly on a level with an Accord EXL. My whole premise is that the Legend is precisely an upsized Accord. Honda fans had the right to expect more for what they were paying.
Seems a bit odd for John C to compare a mainstream car with the thinnest of luxury pretenses like the Regal to an honest effort at building a bonafide luxury vehicle like the Legend. The two don’t even compete in the same weight class. It’s like putting a heavyweight champion up against a welterweight fighter.
The only time I’ve ever thought of the Legend or any of its successors as a “bigger Accord” was when looking at the KB1 and KB2. Now there’s a car that could be mistaken for being a bigger Accord if you weren’t paying close attention.
As far as competition for the coupe, my 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII stickered for $41K. (I didn’t buy it new but the original window sticker was still in the glovebox).The Eldorado started at $38K in 1995, and the Lexus SC300 was $40K. The SC400 was a very lofty $48K. The Riviera was a bargain at $27K but had somewhat lower market position, sitting in between your non-premium big coupes and your actual luxury models.
So $40K could be argued as being a *bit* high for the market, but not much. The Eldorado was also FWD and the SC300 and E320 were also 6-cylinder so you can’t really hold either against the Legend–it stacked up quite well.
You are correct Chris.
I think by the time the Acura Legend came around the big premium coupe market was on the decline. Ford Explorer had came into production in 1991, so in a few years the SUV market would explode like crazy.
All car makers took note of this, and placed less energy into premium, expensive, low volume personal luxury/sport coupes. In favor or gearing up for the SUV explosion that was around the corner!
Japanese automakers in the mid-90s were struggling with the exchange rates, which was making it very hard to hold the line on price for cars built in Japan. Lexus went through the same thing: The SC300 started at $35K in 1993 and was up to $44K by 1996. If you look at exchange rate trends for the dollar and yen from this period, it’s very easy to see why.
There was a big currency shift in the 90s. But isn’t it true that the Japanese automakers were paying their domestic factory workers less than UAW workers got. More so when benefits are added in.
That’s a more complicated question than you’d think, but it’s also irrelevant to the point. The price escalation of Japanese-built cars in this period was due almost entirely to the weakness of the dollar relative to the yen. If you look at the JDM prices of Japanese models, you can see that they inched up a bit year by year — nothing particularly outrageous by the general standards of new car price inflation — and the faster upward climb of U.S. prices is pretty much directly proportional to the trend in exchange rates.
In this case, it would have helped if cars like the Legend had been built in the U.S. because it would have provided greater insulation against currency fluctuations.
Keep in mind that a similar-sized 1994 Mercedes E320 coupe with the 217-horsepower I6 stickered at $61,600. Granted the Mercedes was RWD, but $20K extra is a lot to pay for the three-pointed star. Definitely worth it to some though.
True but back then that asking price was viewed with a bit of a raised eyebrow, it was considered quite a reach. Check out the convertible for an even bigger reach. The premium over the sedan was H U G E., I believe there was quite a bit more hand labor involved especially as regarded the convertible though.
That’s one of the main reasons you see so few of them today whereas the W124 sedan is still frequently seen. The sedan was a very nice car and could easily be defended by anyone as a rational purchase that represented decent value. The Coupe and Cabrios on the other hand, well, buyers of those would generally be considered genuinely wealthy and the price did not really matter.
I guess maybe I need to backtrack a bit, the Legend Coupe’s price I suppose is not that far out of line compared to the competition of its day.
The cabrios REALLY have held their price as well. Astounding. Very classy design though…
My 1985 300E sedan stickered at $36,205, with only one option (leather @$1125). That’s $80k in today’s money! MB dropped prices in ’92 or ’93, in response to the Lexus 400LS.
The 300CE arrived in ’88 with a sticker of $52,500; that’s $106k today! Breathtaking!
Long live the Legends. Nice article, Brendan!
Still a beautiful car all these years later. I bought a (used, off-lease) Accord EX sedan in ’94, but this was the car I was really drooling over back then. 2 small kids and a mortgage made that an impossible dream, but this generation of the Legend was one of the last new coupes that I really really wanted in my garage.
I’m in complete agreement with Brendan re the Legend name. Stupid, stupid, stupid of Honda to have retired that. On the other hand though, as the ’90’s wore on and Acuras became increasingly generic I wonder how much cache the name would have lost by being stuck on a soulless looking also-ran. Acura was really an aspirational brand in the early-mid nineties. By the turn of the century I felt a little “meh” about its relevance.
Count me as another that preferred the elegance of the first generation of coupes to the athleticism of this version. I did think that the CL, while not being as high-end of a piece, did successfully replace the first-generation Legend Coupe in size and style.
The Legend name was surely squandered and in my opinion had a large effect on Acura’s decline, obviously they weren’t the only one to replace names with alphanumerics in the chase of the Germans, but also fell into the trap of apparently thinking that the alphanumeric badge is what makes a German car successful.
Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s, an Acura was absolutely a socially valid competitor to an entry-level or mid-level BMW. By the mid to late 90’s not so much. I am impressed with Acura’s fortitude in continuing down their path, and the cars are probably pretty good, but they don’t really fuel any passion, they are just another choice with no solid differentiator.
Now that we see some other makes returning to names, I wonder if the time has come for Acura to reintroduce Legend and Integra. For all the talk that sedans are dead, there sure do seem to be a lot of Audi A4’s, BMW 3xx’s, Mercedes E350’s, driving around, mostly in 4-door sedan form. TLX means nothing and RLX even less except to those that got involved with Acura within the last 20 years, those that were admirers back at the beginning do still recall the names.
I believe the end of the Legend and the end of the Integra marked the beginning of Acura moving into the “Meh” column.
Both generation’s of the Legend were very attractive. However it is the second gen where the Legend came on its own with style. I had forgotten that the coupe could be had without the spoiler as every one of the Legend coupes I have seen are with the spoiler. I have not seen any of the non spoiler coupes in the metal.
I shot this 1993 Honda Legend 3.2 V6 sedan a few months ago. I can’t remember ever seeing a Legend coupe. Both the Accord and the Legend have been withdrawn from the market here several years ago.
Sadly, the whole brand -what was generally called the Japanese BMW (all white Accord Type-R !!)- has almost completely disappeared.
Same here in Austria, you hardly ever see a Honda These days.
Gorgeous cars–one of my favorite coupe designs of the era, and in the running for Honda’s best styling work ever. An instant favorite the first time I saw it, and one of those cars that time has treated very kindly. both sedan and coupe still turn heads today, and the coupe still raised my pulse every time I see one. Very high on the list of cars I’d still love to own, but finding a good one can be tough.
It still befuddles me how this car–one where Honda got pretty much everything right–could have been followed by something as soulless and pudgy as the original RL. It’s like they went from hunting the 5-series to hunting the S-class, and made some of the same mistakes without the attendant virtues.
Bring back the Legend name? Only if they can produce a car worthy of wearing the badge. At least in the US market, there’s never been a bad Legend.
I like these Legend coupes very much. Peak Honda in quite a few ways to my eyes. I really prefer the sedan to the coupe in this generation, however. As much as I like the coupe’s looks, there was a competitor that fits the whole narrative of luxury coupe better for me, and it was equally as striking; the Lexus SC. When new, once the SC300 debuted mid 1992, pricing for both were literally right on top of one another, and this is likely why the Legend coupe was comparatively rare.
These Legends had some wacky proportions. I much prefer the previous generation which took the classic shape of the Honda Accord, pumped it up, and added those oh so 80s fender blisters. They were instantly recognizable as Hondas but that wasn’t a problem back then.
The second gen had that “big back” which visually “pushed” the rest of the car forward. The opposite of long hood, short deck styling where the front pushes rearward.
It was like they were going for a cab forward look, thinking that was going to be the next big thing and not RWD in this segment. It wasn’t until the ’04 TL that they went back to normal sport sedan proportions. The sales of that car were fantastic.
I was not a fan of the new more rounded ’91 Prelude nor the ’93 Accord. The Prelude recovered briefly with the cool ’96 redesign but by then it was too late. Honda’s odd exterior styling, even more bizarre interior styling (remember the ’91 Prelude dash?), and dropping the low cowl and double wishbone suspension are what made many say that Honda had lost its mojo. Luckily for them competitors were struggling with their own issues.
Absence must make the heart grow fonder because I rather like the Legend Coupe these days. I still don’t get the sedan.
I wonder if it is not so much “big back” as “ultra-low” front, a Honda signature at the time along with shortish travel from the double wishbone suspension.
It’s not that the wishbones had intrinsically limited suspension travel, and the KA7 and the CB Accord/Inspire had a good deal more than the earlier Legend and CA Accord. Honda wanted to keep the nose low to reduce frontal area and keep the scuttle low for visibility. However, the KA8 really does have a big butt — it’s not an optical illusion.
“*It still befuddles me how this car–one where Honda got pretty much everything right–could have been followed by something as soulless and pudgy as the original RL*”
My personal theory dates the ‘Fall of Honda‘ to the death of Sochiro Honda in 1991, followed by
“the bursting of the Bubble Economy”. With Sochiro’s death, Honda began its shift away from emphasis on performance and handling engineering to emphasizing economy and anti-pollution engineering. While this philosophical shift was occurring, the economic situation forced Acura and Lexus to make a marketing decision: raise prices and maintain content or keep prices at previous levels but decontent the cars. Lexus gambled by raising prices, believing people would pay; Honda ‘played it safe’ with Acura by decontenting but keeping prices down. Naturally, it took a few years for these decisions to take effect – but on introduction of the next generation of cars it became obvious – Lexus stayed in competition with Mercedes and Acura began to slide toward Buick. In recent years, Acura has tried to regain a higher status in the marketplace but without completes success.
Soichiro Honda hadn’t had any actual control over the company for many years, so the significance of his death in that regard was mostly symbolic. Otherwise, this is mostly right, although there were some other contributing factors not obvious from an American perspective: disappointing home-market sales of the CB Accord, the expensive flop of the original five-cylinder cars (which I think had a lot to do with Honda deciding that chasing novel engineering ideas was not the best idea), and the fact that Honda had tried (mostly) unsuccessfully to expand its dealer presence and offerings in Japan in a Toyota-like manner.
The upshot is that they’d sunk a lot of capital into a number of efforts that did not pan out.
I always liked these, although between the two iterations, I prefer the generation 1 coupe and the generation 2 sedan. I never liked the read view of the gen 2 sedan, that killed it for me. Otherwise the Gen 2 was a great design. The Gen 1 interior was more interesting though. Lots of weird buttons (especially for the cruise control and sunroof) placed hither an thither.
I really liked these cars when they were new, but time has tempered my appreciation. With all the money spent on the longitudinal engine layout and superior materials, leaving the car front drive put it between the likes of the Maxima and ES300 and cars like the 5-series, W124 series, LS400. It took a real appreciation of subtlety to like these cars. And other competitors like Audi, Saab and Volvo did front-drive dynamics better. A lot of people didn’t notice the excellent build quality and unique drivetrain layout when more exciting cars could be had for similar money. As a Honda partisan, it’s upsetting that the company’s flagships like the Legend and Prelude could be so underwhelming. For this sort of money at the time, I’d probably be found in a 740 turbo, despite the coarse, lumbering impression they sometimes gave.
If I did get a Legend of this era, my pick would be a 6-speed Legend sedan.
To me, this Legend coupe looks like an over-inflated Prelude of the same era.
Brendan, when are we getting together to do the CC of my ’90 Integra LS sedan?
Both coupe generations are my favorites, for different reasons. The first gen has that beautiful airy greenhouse, the second has a beefy, somewhat Nissan Skyline kind of vibe. And both could be had with manual transmission. I had an STS Seville and I can tell you that the handling and stability were very good, so for most drivers the FWD was not an issue. For extremely high performance, drivers they would probably pick something else, especially at these prices. These cars are known for weak auto transmissions and blown head gaskets, especially the first gen. The leather did not hold up for very long, although the cloth seats do a bit better. Would I buy one? Sure, I would if I could find one in fair shape. They aren’t worth anything in dollars and cents so any investment is just because you love the car. Just like any other “classic” car! It is too bad that Acura lost it’s way, I can’t say that I aspire to any of their new products, even the NSX.
Acura has built a lot of fine cars, but occupying the marketspace of a latter day Oldsmobile is a hard place to be. Even the Lincoln brand has it easier – dipping into the Ford portfolio of bruisers gives it a bit more gravitas – and it may be working. Ford, as much as anybody, has evolved the Turbo into a luxury engine, and to varying degrees got there first – maybe they’ll be able to make something out of Lincoln yet.
It is a shame the Cutlass didn’t evolve into this.
Warning: Rant Alert!
I couldn’t agree more that Acura’s name changes were a deadly sin. Legend was (is) a fantastic name for a car, and showed Honda Motor at its most brazen–very appealing for the target customers at the time. Likewise, Integra, though meaningless, sounds good and is memorable. The Vigor name was odd, but that’s another story…
Whether buyers thought of the cars by their brand name (Acura) or model names (Integra, Legend) shouldn’t have mattered one bit–there was enough good imagery to go around. The Honda brand itself has certainly benefited from strong model names: Accord and Civic to name but two. Do these customers drive an Accord or Civic? Or a Honda? Who cares, it’s all good! It would be crazy to throw away that kind of brand equity, but that is exactly what Acura did.
I can’t think of too many examples of successful model name rebranding schemes, particularly switches to alphanumerics, yet the industry seemingly never learns. Pontiac tried, for example, in the early 1980s with the J2000 (replacing Sunbird), A6000 (replacing LeMans), and that didn’t work out well and the company soon reverted to model names… only to jettison them once again for the pablum G6, G8 etc. A sad end for the maker of Bonnevilles and Grand Prix.
But so many automakers went down the same path. Think Cadillac (CT6, XT5, eh whatever) and Lincoln (let’s see is the MKT the hearse-looking CUV or the Fusion-based sedan? Don’t know, don’t care) and Infiniti (I think they are all Q-somethings now). This notion of weak model names ensures strong brand names seems to run deep in the car business. Which is ridiculous, since time and time again, the strong model names help create the real equity for the brands (Escalade is ironically the one remaining memorable Cadillac name–say it and instantly people have the mental image of exactly which Caddy you are talking about).
OK, I’ll get off my soap box, but the naming stupidity really bugs me. And Acura was certainly a leading offender.
And yes, this Legend was a very nice coupe from a time when Acura was still cool, no matter which of those names you used…
Y’know I agree with you a lot. I think most of the switch to alpahnumerics, in all honesty, is just a follow the leader type deal to copy the naming scheme employed by BMW and Mercedes Benz. But, I think that the brands that go that route, don’t understand the method behind the madness.
The reason the BMW and Mercedes naming schemes worked, and still work, is because it’s simple. Take BMW’s naming scheme, back then and to a lesser extent now, the stamped on combination of numbers and letters meant something. First letter denoted the model number, next two letters denoted engine displacement, and the numbers meant stuff like fuel injection, coupe body style, diesel engines etcetera. Same with Mercedes, back in the 70s and 80s, you got the engine size, then the model it was, then whatever else. That setup may seem confusing, but in reality, it was and still is simple. Even your average consumer could figure out the naming scheme, so that’s why those names stuck around.
But, much like the missteps made by GM when it came to Cadillac, the other manufacturers just copied the Germans, without understanding the reasoning. So, this gobbeldy-gook of mish-mash frick-a-frack is the result. Ironically, Cadillac was the closest to understanding the German naming scheme back in the 90s, just three letters and it determined what the model was, the trim package it was equipped with, and the body style it was. It wasn’t perfect (ETC=Etcetera, yes I’ve heard that joke before), but it at least made sense.
Names, but more importantly, good names, sell. If names didn’t sell, Lincoln wouldn’t have bothered to dig up the Continental.
And before anyone says that luxury car makers can’t possibly have real names. Rolls Royce and Bentley would like to have a word with you. Yes, I know they’re different price brackets compared to the subject at hand, but the point still remains valid.
I think it works for Mazda too.
GN, I couldn’t agree with you more! I am a car guy and honestly I was confused when I started working for Acura 3 years ago. RLX? RDX? MDX? TLX? ILX? HUH???
At least their SUV’s have great name recognition because they STARTED OUT with those names – MDX and RDX. Fine. That is where it should end. The cars should have their old names back. Would you throw away Accord or Civic? NO!! Luckily, Acura’s SUV’s are in the top of their class and sell quite well. Where the brand is suffering is definitely with their sedans. We have a full-size luxury car – the RLX – that gets horrible reviews, yet the few customers that have purchased/leased them love them! Go figure. And yes it SHOULD be called the Legend again (which ironically it is the Honda Legend in Japan). Sadly, to me it is a car that is treated somewhat unfairly as it really is a beautiful car. I cannot tell you how many people enter this showroom and mention the Legend they had and loved, or knew someone that had one and loved it.
Our mid-sized sedan, the TLX, was introduced in 2015 and suffered some initial quality issues with the 9-speed transmission/software programming that Consumer Reports has had a field day with. It is the LAST thing Acura needed, as it nearly put a nail in the coffin of what is truly a great driver’s luxury-sport sedan. The 2016’s and 2017’s have been trouble-free, but now the TLX’s reputation has been scarred by its initial build quality issues. It is a beautiful, well-balanced sedan that once again is loved by its owners. And I’ve sold quite a few of them, too.
Lastly, the ILX. Basically a luxurious alternative to the Civic, the ILX certainly isn’t a bad little car, but once again Consumer Reports trashed it and sales have been poor.
Acura needs some defining models to bring it back into the forefront. The NSX is finally available and it is insane! Even though it is a $200k supercar available to a select few, it does move Acura’s status back up the chain somewhat. Acura could definitely use a convertible as well as a worthy entry-level and large luxury car again. Heck, what did they start out with initially in 1986? The Legend and the Integra!!
Don’t even get me started on Consumer Reports. I still get a potential customer every now and then who is in panic because of “Consumer Report’s” horrible reliability reviews of MINIs from 2003. FWI, absolutely NOTHING is shared in common with the hardtops from two generations ago!
Lol! So Brendan, you too have felt the wrath of Consumer Reports? The funny thing about CR is that they will give certain cars that I know have terrible overall reliability and even worse – long term reliability – a recommendation, yet other cars like the Acura ILX that absolutely never ever break or come back for warranty work a horrible review and not recommended. I know that they use a lot of criteria in their recommendations but to me, reliability should be the number one factor. And in the case of trashing a car when it is new, to be fair they should really get updated information and not leave the same information from three years ago for consumers to use as a reference.
Just a pedantic note — you could have a base model coupe in the early years (91-92? Not sure about 93-95) without faux wood trim, and the coupe did not have frameless door glass.
Only the first gen coupe had frameless door glass
Good article and discussion. I owned a 94 GS Sedan for a few years, and really liked it. I only had to do routine maintenance, other than replace the radiator (end tanks started leaking). My car was pearl white, with tan leather that was in really nice shape when I sold it. A couple tiny spots of rust on the body convinced me to put her for sale, and not sure I should have done so…..