(first posted 8/19/2013. Update 6/18/2022: this same Prius is still there at this address)
A happy marriage isn’t exactly the easiest thing to engineer. And gasoline and electricity are about as compatible as Donald Trump and Mother Theresa. I know, Ferdinand Porsche built a “hybrid” in 1899, and there have been others since. But it’s time to bust the very myth I’ve been guilty of perpetuating myself: Porsche’s “Mixte” wasn’t a real hybrid. Like the Chevrolet Volt, it was an EV with a gas generator to extend its range when the battery gave out. That’s like calling a single guy with a maid and a hooker “married”. But the Toyota engineers pulled it off, teaching the two oldest propulsion systems how to dance, simultaneously–and by doing so, the Prius became the most revolutionary car since the Model T. Update: The Tesla Model S might now well be seen as that.
Electric cars date back to about 1839, when Robert Anderson, of Aberdeen, Scotland, built the first. The first practical one, pictured above, was built by Thomas Parker in 1884. smooth and quiet city cars. As smooth and quiet city cars, battery-electrics would go on to enjoy a substantial market share during the first few decades of the 20th century.
Huge, heavy and expensive lead-acid batteries were their limiting factor. Porsche’s Lohner Mixte (above) and his later gas-electric vehicles, including the incredible “land trains”, were less about practical efficiency than bypassing the problems of the crude clutches and transmissions of the day.
In so called “serial hybrids”, which are not very complicated in concept, the internal combustion (IC) engine merely drives the generator. But losses by the generator and electric motor exceed those of an IC directly driving the wheels through an efficient transmission. A Volt/Mixte-style range extender works best backing up a large battery which is, of course, heavy and expensive.
Parallel hybrid drive–in which electric and gasoline propulsion are used interchangeably and jointly in order to maximize each system’s relative advantages–is not exactly newer than the serial hybrid, but it’s a lot harder to pull off, at least commercially. In 1899, a Belgian carmaker, Pieper, introduced a small car in which the gasoline engine was mated to an electric motor under the seat. During “cruising,” the electric motor was in effect a generator, recharging the batteries. But when the car was climbing a grade, the electric motor, mounted coaxially with the gas engine, gave it a boost.
Pieper’s patents were used by the Belgium firm Auto-Mixte to build commercial vehicles from 1906 to 1912 (1906 Auto-Mixte shown).
There were others, too, but once self-starters and better clutches and transmissions came along, interest in hybrids of both kinds pretty much died out. The resurgence came in the late Sixties, especially when the government began to regulate emissions. But the key engineering from which the Prius would borrow heavily was undertaken in 1968-1971, by three scientists at TRW, a major auto supplier. They created a practical parallel hybrid system, designated as an electromechanical transmission (EMT) (above), and patented it. It provided a level of brisk vehicle performance with a smaller engine comparable to that from a larger, conventional internal combustion engine.
There were two catalysts responsible for the birth of the Prius: In 1992, Toyota announced its Earth Charter, a document that outlined goals to develop and market vehicles with the lowest emissions possible; and, in 1993, President Clinton created the PNGV (Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles), a billion-dollar program designed to result in commercially produced family-sized cars– capable of 80 mpg–by 2003 (only U.S. companies need apply).
Feeling left out, but not wanting to be left behind, Toyota embarked on its own project, “G21”, to create a Corolla-size car that would improve its fuel efficiency by 50% (a target later raised to 100%, or 60 mpg on the optimistic Japanese fuel-economy cycle). The whole story of the Prius’ very ambitious development is a little beyond our scope, but here is an excellent article on it. And contrary to common myth, the first Prius was not based on the smaller Echo, despite some familial design similarities.
As is all too common with government handouts, the PNGV vehicles amounted to very little beyond the usual Detroit Autorama-style dog and pony show (the GM Precept is shown above). All used diesel engines in their hybrid architecture, despite the known fact that contemporary diesel technology would not be EPA compliant by the time the cars (theoretically) arrived in 2003. Never mind asking what they would have cost to produce.
Anyway, the Big Three were too busy minting serious coin from their big SUVs to be seriously distracted by such nonsense during a time of record low oil prices. Toyota’s biggest technical hurdle by far was managing thermal issues with the Prius’ battery pack. The rest was not really that difficult, thanks to the prior work done in the field (which eventually resulted in patent litigation). Toyota claims it spent the equivalent of about one billion U.S. dollars on development, roughly the same amount it takes to develop a typical new car. There is no evidence that the Japanese Government provided financial assistance; Toyota has denied it, and it just wasn’t that big an undertaking (Ford developed its very similar hybrid system without government support). There’s no doubt that Toyota absorbed losses on its production during its first few years.
The Prius concept was shown in 1995, and the first Japanese-market version went on sale in 1997. A somewhat revised but almost identical-looking Prius went on sale in the U.S. as a 2001 model. I remember buying gas for 98 cents that year.
My first ride in a Prius was in a gen-one version like this one, driven by my father in-law. We drove down from the hills of Salt Lake City into downtown, and all the way he kept the gas engine from engaging. The downhill segments kept the battery charged for accelerating from lights and on short flat sections. It was a revelation. I knew then that a new era was dawning, and that Detroit, Washington, and the PNGV had blown it. Here was a practical and reasonably roomy car that cost $19,995 and could get 50 mpg.
Improving fuel economy from 25 to 50 mpg results in a savings of 280 gallons per year, at 14K miles/year. And the additional improvement to the lofty PNGV goal of 80 mpg? 100 more gallons saved per year. The law of diminishing returns was never better explained than by that billion-dollar boondoggle. In theory, that is.
The rest of the Prius story is well known. From 15K units sold in 2001, it has gone on to become one of today’s Top Ten best-sellers. Not surprisingly, Eugene was an early adopter. There are about four or five of these first-gen models within a couple of blocks of my house. I couldn’t resist shooting this one, because of all of its stereotypical bumper stickers and its being parked in front of that fluttering rainbow PEACE flag. How perfect and lucky was that? And the stereotypical female owner is…a massage therapist. But the military Jeep and its crusty vet owner live just down the street from her. To live successfully in Eugene one learns to embrace diversity, even if it’s mostly white. And to visualize whirled peas.
It took a while for the rest of the industry to get what this massage therapist did ten years ago. In 2004, GM’s Bob Lutz dismissed the Prius as “an interesting oddity”. Two years later, he announced the Prius-killer Volt with these words: “The electrification of the automobile is inevitable”. And now? Well, the market for hybrids continues to expand, but perhaps not as quickly as was initially predicted. Conventional cars keep getting more efficient, and the early adopters have moved on to Teslas and Leafs.
The oddest thing about the Prius is all the hate it has provoked. Maybe it’s the stereotypes of Prius owners, and yes, this one fits to a tee (which is why I shot it). I always assumed auto enthusiasts got excited about new technologies (by which I mean excited in the usual sense). Perhaps the Prius’ marketing contributed to it (here’s a very early ad). Prius polarization is just another reflection of the times we live in. If GM had come out with a Prius in 1974, based on their ’60s hybrid research, it would have been universally acclaimed (until it likely started falling apart, that is). But that was then; now, we demonize that which we neither understand nor take the time and effort to understand. As we say in Eugene: “It’s all good, man”.
I wanted to like these when they were new but couldn’t get past the oddball styling. But when the 2nd-gen Prius came out, I bought one for my now-ex-wife. Its oddball styling was at least oddball in a sort of cool way. She kept the car after the divorce until she realized she could sell it used for a few grand more than we paid for it.
I was leery about these when they came out. It seemed to me that a $5000 battery pack replacement would be inevitable after 10 years or so, leading to all sorts of disruptions in the normal cycle of a car. However, these fears do not seem to have come to pass. My mechanic has serviced some of the early ones, and they have been very good vehicles, according to him.
Just for cultural diversity, my brother the Naval officer drives one too. Of course, he is an engineer by training, so he was surely wowed by the tech. A very good piece on a car that I am not that familiar with.
My uncle, a retired Strategic Air Command Lt. Col. who piloted B-52s, loves his Prius. He’s put plenty of miles on it with road trips.
I think it’s very un-car-guy-like to deride a car that is good at what it does. No, I’m not terribly interested in a Prius, but I’ve had them as rentals and have to admit that those cars are dang good at what they do i.e; long-distance cruising. The Smart deserves the vitriol that the Prius gets, because it’s not very good at what it does. i.e; it gives up everything to fit head-on into a parallel spot, which is pointless in the U.S. anyway.
Well, the Smart is pretty darned popular in cities like Paris because of its ability to squeeze into miniscule parking spaces. In the US, I’d only see it as a niche market for places like San Francisco or NYC.
Smart has been a money losing operation, even in Europe. Market share in Europe has been running at 0.6%, placing it below Alfa and Lancia, and about equal to Mitsubishi.
They may seem to be popular in Europe, but they aren’t — they’re just more conspicuous. It’s quite possible that Daimler will kill it off if sales don’t improve.
From what I read in the German press a few years back, Smart had been “sanitized” (costs lowered) to the point that it was no longer losing money. Unless that has specifically changed in the past couple of years, but I doubt it. Its development is long amortized, they use a cheaper Mitsu engine now, and the production is very lean and with a disproportionate percentage of its content/assemblies coming from suppliers.
This story from Bloomberg published last month speculates that Smart will need to either succeed or else get cut.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-07/smart-shrinks-to-scooter-in-last-chance-for-daimler-brand.html
In this story, the Daimler representative says that revenues cover the parts costs. As you know, those aren’t the only costs that need to be covered…
They also have a captive market with their expanding Car2Go service. It’s become very popular in some cities – the Vancouver BC fleet is currently at a surprising 1275 cars (almost all Smarts, with a smattering of Mercedes B class hatchbacks).
It would be interesting to see how that venture ties into their longterm business plan.
I’ve always found them fascinating, and the used market (realistically, I’m limited to about $16k on a car) has grown to the point where my replacement for the xB will most likely be a hybrid of some manufacturer’s.
The one place I get pissed about them is the (virtually) mandatory automatic.
Full hybrids naturally behave like continuously-variable automatics, because of the planetary gearset joining the engine, the two motor-generators and the wheels. More on this later…must get back to work!
No the Insight was a “full” hybrid which was available with a manual transmission and a single motor generator.
Unfortunately, first generation Insights are ten years old or better, and well into six figure mileage. Next car isn’t going to be anything older than four years old.
The best option is the 2010-12 Fusion Hybrid if you are replacing it by 2016 anyway. We’ve been getting a solid 41 MPG in mixed driving not that summer is here. Much more enjoyable of a drive than a Prius with actual road feel from the electronic power steering and 99% of the time you cant tell when it transitions from pure regen braking to adding in the friction braking. The Escape is another good choice if you want the station wagon experience, again Ford did a really good job of making it seem no different that its ICE only sibling.
A full hybrid, sometimes also called a strong hybrid, is a vehicle that can run on just the engine, just the batteries, or a combination of both. Honda Insight simply had a single motor/generator in place of the flywheel on the engine output shaft, with a conventional manual shift or CVT. It can’t move without the engine running. Insight got spectacular mileage from its tiny size and aluminum construction as much as from the hybrid motor/generator.
This is true as well of the Civic Hybrid, at least the 2003 model we had. Whenever it was in motion, the gas engine was running.
Just because that is the way Toyota did it does not mean it is the only “full Hybrid” It certainly would be possible to have a MT and not have the engine run when the vehicle is in motion. I believe Hyundia for example puts a clutch between it’s engine and motor so it can shut down the engine while in EV mode and there is no reason they couldn’t put the motor on the transmission output rather than the input and have a automated clutch release for use in EV mode.
Just because that is the way Toyota did it does not mean it is the only “full Hybrid” It certainly would be possible to have a MT and not have the engine run when the vehicle is in motion
In theory, like so many other things. Want to bet on the likelihood of future MT hybrids?
“In theory, like so many other things. Want to bet on the likelihood of future MT hybrids?”
In North America or the rest of the world? In NA the likelihood is almost certainly zero, but that is due to the fact that the take rate of true MTs is almost zero in NA. In the rest of the world I’d say it is a possibility that we will see more MT hybrids in the future. An automated manual on the other hand has a greater chance of seeing the road.
Isn’t a transmission controlled by the car an important part of regenerative braking in most HEVs? How would that work with an MT?
@calibrick, the computer controlling the transmission has nothing to do with regenerative braking. There was no computer controlling the MT in the original Insight that was capable of 60 MPG and better on the highway. It also doesn’t factor into any part of the regenerative braking on the rest of the Honda Hybrids nor the Volkswagen, Hyundia/Kia. The computer controlling the motors is what makes the transmission capable of transmitting engine power to the wheels in the Toyota/Nissan and Ford systems.
The Toyota and Ford eCVT is just one way to do a Hybrid which integrates and gives you an overall lower cost. When you get down to it, it is best at being an elegant, and effective solution on how to make a strong durable CVT and lesser so about maximizing overall efficiency.
Maybe Toyota found that their implementation of a CVT gave better mileage than a manual did. Maybe it’s also possible that in Toyota’s hybrid design, a manual transmission isn’t even a possibility.
At any rate, this codger likes to not have to shift gears in stop-and-go city driving.
The Hybrid Synergy Drive/power split device that Toyota uses is the heart of their design and is a planetary transmission so it is a CVT. It does help the MPG around town but hurts it on the hwy.
How exactly does it “hurt on the highway”?
It is because while cruising at a steady load with the battery at the target SOC MG2 has to draw power from the drive line to generate electricity to power MG1 to provide the connection between to the engine and a gear ratio. Which is why vehicles that use the eCVT get the same or worse hwy MPG then they do in the city, instead of better.
If you look at the MPG ratings you’ll see that almost every Honda, Hyundia, Kia, and VW Hybrid gets better hwy MPG than city since they do not have the power drain to provide the gear ratio/connection to the engine. While almost every Toyota, Ford and Nissan model which use a two MG eCVT get lower hwy MPG than city due to that power drain.
Fact is, it takes more energy to move at highway speed than at city speed. Mainly pushing all that air out of the way: force goes up as the square of speed. An efficient car should have better city mileage than highway mileage. If it doesn’t, then it’s wasting energy in the stop-and-go of the city cycle.
Certainly the full hybrid’s power path through motor-generators at highway speed is less efficient than it would be directly geared. But that’s more than offset by the big win at suburban and city speeds.
Between the EV mode and regenerative braking, City MPG is significantly higher than for a non-HEV with the same engine.
At highways speeds the HEV components are just added weight and the Highway MPG is usually a bit lower than a non-HEV with the same engine.
Keep in mind that the high-cost, low-performance Atkinson cycle engine in the Prius is a significant contributor to its excellent fuel economy. It’s not all from the hybrid system.
An efficient car should have better city mileage than highway mileage. If it doesn’t, then it’s wasting energy in the stop-and-go of the city cycle.
If that indeed were the case then it wouldn’t only be the Ford, Toyota, and Nissans, that use the eCVT that get better MPG in the city than on the hwy. Fact is that constantly accelerating and then decelerating wastes a ton of energy, much more than the extra drag of a modern aerodynamic vehicle. The recovery of that energy that was converted into inertia is of course where the hybrid shines and those with two MGs can recover energy more efficiently.
Which is why the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid will resoundingly beat the Camry in both city and hwy since it uses 2 motors and an electronically controlled clutch between the engine and conventional trans. The numbers I’ve seen indicate it should get EPA scores of 49 city and 45 hwy vs the Camry which is 43 city 39 hwy. That electronically controlled clutch between the engine and trans means that it can shut off the engine at any speed w/o the risk of over speeding the range MG like is possible in the Toyotas and 2012 and older Fords.
@ Calibrick there is nothing “high cost” about an Atkinson cycle engine it is nothing more than the cam shaft grind that makes it that way. Yes using variable timing can be used to make it more efficient but that is increasingly becoming the norm.
The Hybrid system does help on the hwy assuming that the road is not perfectly flat. When you need that little more power to maintain speed up the hill the MG provides that assist and when you are going down hill and need less power it recharges the battery. On a steady state cruise on a flat road added the effect of added weight is negligible.
The Accord hybrid is a plug-in with a 6.7 kWh battery.
The Camry is not a plug-in, and has a smaller 1.6 kWh battery.
The Accord has a larger battery, which allows it to use its gasoline engine less often.
A Prius PHEV has an EPA rating of 51/49; the Accord PHEV is rated at 47/ 46.
The fact is current HEVs aren’t so great on the highway. Diesels are more efficient. In the city it’s much closer with a slight edge going to the HEVs.
So it’s simple… If you care about fuel economy and drive a lot in the city get an HEV, if you do a lot of highway driving get a diesel. The passing power of a diesel is far superior to that of an HEV, an added benefit.
If you are an enthusiast and care about “best” fuel economy there is only one choice, the diesel. Especially when the best hybrids steer and brake like a Prius.
I won’t get into the cost (including environmental) for mining the precious metals required to construct the latest batteries.
As for EVs a well-developed diesel-hybrid will top those in terms of well-to-wheel CO2 emissions, considering the way we generate our electricity in the US.
Engine costs aren’t just in the parts there is also development and certification to deal with. Atkinson cycles engines don’t put out enough power to be the maker’s choice for both the HEV and non-HEV models. Compression ratios are usually higher on the ACs so not as many parts are going to be shared as you might think. And no you can’t dismiss the cost of the variable valve timing technology.
As for weight effect on highway MPG I know it’s negligible that’s why I said “a bit”.
@ PCH, I did not say wait for the 2014 Accord Plug in Hybrid as that is currently available though only in CA and NY, with no plans to expand its availablity. Some time in October the regular Accord Hybrid will go on sale across the US and it is expected to get the EPA numbers I noted.
@ Calibrick yes the Atkinson Cycle engine typically uses a higher compression ratio which is easily obtained with different pistons that like the cam shaft do not carry any significant difference in cost. As to the cost of the certification that has to be done no matter what engine is put in front of a given transmission so again there is no significant cost increase associated with that.
Yes you can ignore the cost of variable valve timing because just like on a conventional engine it is not required it is just something that is used to maximize the efficiency and is done on lots of engines today whether operating on the Otto or Atkinson cycle.
A hybrid runs on a combination of gasoline and electricity.
The larger the battery, the less need there is for gasoline.
The battery in the Camry hybrid holds less power than others on the market. That means it should use its gas engine more often, all things being equal.
So Eric you are saying 4-cylinder Corollas, Civics and Camrys use the same level of variable valve timing that we see in the Prius? I didn’t know that and am not sure it is correct.
If your point is that high end cars use the tech and it’s therefore not so exotic that may be true but doesn’t mean it’s cheap, in fact it implies the opposite.
@ Calibrick Variable valve timing is extensively used, for example the 2.5L engine used in the 2010-2012 Fusion uses VVT whether it is backed by a MT, AT or eCVT. The amount that it can vary the timing is controlled is just based on where they machine the stops, I can’t say I know whether they have the same amount of range between the different versions but either way the cost is negligible.
The Corolla has had VVT since 2000 in the US or before we saw our first Prius.
So yes it is definitely mainstream.
Come on now. There are various levels of that technology. You had the baby and full VTECs on the Hondas. Some control the intake only others intake and exhaust. Costs go up, way up depending on the amount of control.
I have to go to dinner now but believe a CVT controlled by the car is a critical part in achieving top MPG performance in a hybrid. I also believe an MT will never be offered by T, due to the low take rate and also the hit on MPG. The 15 year old Insight was a different animal entirely.
Yes there are different levels and types of variable valve timing each with different costs, advantages and disadvantages. But what system used does not depend on whether it is installed in a Hybrid or non-Hybrid vehicle, it’s just the way modern engines are done.
In the case of the 2001-2009 Prius it used the 1-NZ-FXE engine who’s only difference between it and the 1-NZ-FE that was used in the 2004-2006 Scion Xb and Xa and 2000-2011 Toyota Echo/Yaris was the pistons and cam shaft. They both use the same variable valve timing pieces. So it shared the same basic engine as the cheapest vehicles that Toyota sold in the US.
As far as the transmission design goes again there are different choices with different costs, advantages and disadvantages. The Toyota/Ford system with the eCVT is certainly one choice and it is at it’s best in city/mixed driving with the trade off of lower hwy efficiency. While other systems sacrifice some of their city/mixed efficiency for better hwy results.
As I mentioned elsewhere in this article Honda has chosen to go a different route with the 2014 Accord that will allow use with a MT should they choose to. Certainly we won’t see a MT Hybrid from Toyota as they have committed to the eCVT but it wouldn’t surprise me if the CR-Z makes it to a second generation that it will offer a MT. The original Insight was a unique case with extreme weight reduction efforts and a lean burn system but it certainly shows the advantage of a MT in a Hybrid with the 2001 MT version getting ratings of 48/53/60 while the 2001 CVT is “only” rated for 45/47/49.
Someone I knew was an “early adopter” and was happy to throw me the keys. The car was a revelation. Sitting at a junction waiting for a gap in traffic, all was quiet and serene. If I lived in a city I would have wanted one of these. Never mind the mpg, it is the peace of mind sitting in traffic not monitoring the revs at tickover by ear or by rev-counter. Not worrying about the water temperature , or how much you were shortening the life of the clutch. My friend had traded in a 2.2 litre Camry and his insurance company wanted a lot more money. They reckoned it had a 1.5 litre engine, plus an electric motor equal to another 1.5 litres, so they would insure it as a 3-litre ! Eventually Toyota Ireland intervened and he got a sensible price.
When the Gen 2 came out he traded up and let me drive that too, but it didn’t have the same impact – maybe because the styling of the Gen 2 ( both inside and out) is so OTT ( I see the Prius a primarily a city car, and you don’t need a 200 mph windscreen on a city car). The Gen 1 is an ugly duckling, but it’s the most sensible Prius so far.
I still haven’t figured out why the Gen 2 has alloy wheels with fake-alloy wheeltrims….
The trims on the wheels are to improve aerodynamics, they reduce drag around the wheel. Every bit adds up on these cars it seems..
No Prius fan am I, but count me as one who prefers the styling of this 1st gen to the styling of later generations.
I am a Prius fan. Had been reading about electric cars for years before this came out. Daughter in Dallas drives one and it has served her very well. I actually tried doing one (EV, not a Prius)in a classroom https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/building-an-evhybrid-a-hands-on-classroom-project/ with moderate success.
I think the way their transmission works is genius. Jalopnik had an article a while back about someone who towed small trailers and moved bikes and pets for people who were moving. That’s more versatility than I would have expected. Wish I could buy one made as a truck.
Toyota’s been offering hybrid Highlanders since 2005.
Brother in law has one. Absolutely loves it – he’s a contract engineer for PennDOT, and out in the field a lot.
Brilliant, Paul, and impressive research. I figured I’d do a Prius CC eventually, but I’m glad you did.
I thought I knew just about all there was to know about early hybrids, yet I’d never heard of the 1899 (!) Pieper hybrid, nor the TRW work. TRW’s system is nearly identical to the 1st-gen Prius (diagram below). It was too far ahead of its time. Imagine a full hybrid with lead-acid batteries, big heavy motors, and relays.
I bought one of the very first cars off the boat, build date 8/1/2000. It was my daily driver for ten trouble-free years, 130K miles, delivering 40-45 mpg commuting, up to 50 mpg on the highway. I flogged that little car, determined to show traffic the Prius was no slug, and it wasn’t. Its instant electric torque works great at the green light, and freeway passing.
Later I learned that battery life is affected by how often you pull maximum current, as I usually did the way I drove it. (Of course since this very-first Prius Toyota’s gotten much better at protecting the cells.) One battery cell in the pack went south in 2010. By then a new dealer-installed pack was $2400, comparable to a transmission and, as predicted, a far cry from the $8K it cost in 2001. There are non-dealer shops who will replace individual cells for a lot less. But the 3rd-gen 2010 Prius had come out, I was hot for the new, bigger, better-mileage, higher-tech Prius, so I traded it. My 2010 has much more power, so I can drive it fast without flogging.
This 1st-gen Prius ended up as the most reliable of any car on Consumer Reports’ surveys, several years in a row. Toyota’s technology breakthrough was astonishing, but their execution was nothing short of miraculous.
I have a lot more to say about this Prius! One of these days I’ll do a 2001 Prius COAL. “Clean COAL” of course.
I think it’s remarkable that Toyota introduced new technology and GOT IT RIGHT from the start. It has been refined, but they got it to work reliably from the very start. That is not something U.S. manufacturers have been good at, in general.
They didn’t get it “right” from the start. We didn’t get the first generation Prius what is pictured above is the second generation model. The first one we did get had its share of problems but Toyota was and is good at hiding problems with their cars. For example the early batteries usually leaked and there was a secret service campaign to fix them. Bring it in for an oil change and they would pull the battery pack and apply goop to the where the terminals exited the cells. There were also a number of software updates handled the same way. When you got your car back there was no note of the work indicated on the RO.
Also good at actually fixing problems- in the bad old days, a lot of manufacturers would blame ‘customer misuse’, or simply conceal the fault, hoping it would go away. I’m looking at you GM and Mitsubishi …
We should get our generations straight. This CC’s Prius is the first generation. It came out in Japan in 1997, and a further-developed and more powerful version of the same car arrived on North American shores in 2000 as a 2001 model. 2nd-gen is the bigger 2004-2009 with the smiling-face grille, and the 3rd-gen from 2010 is today’s Prius.
Getting it right from the start doesn’t mean getting every little thing 100% perfect. Early batteries did not usually leak, mine never did and neither did my BIL’s. Small improvements and software upgrades are a good thing.
The pictured one is the “second” generation or at least 1.5 as it had a completely different power train and larger battery than the original Japan only model that wasn’t suitable for use on US freeways.
How do you know if it never leaked? Did you disasseble the battery pack? It may have never leaked because they resealed yours before it did. There was a secret service campaign that payed 2.x hrs to reseal the batteries for all the first 1.5 years or so of production. The only way yours didn’t get resealed was if you never took it back to a Toyota dealer.
This model is universally called the gen1.5 Prius (except by you).
Considering that it was the first modern car of its type, having a little leak that could be fixed by a little sealant, I’ll support the statement that they “GOT IT RIGHT”. Especially compare it to all the new tech GM introduced in the 80s and 90s. Do I even need to list them? And Ford had its share too.
The Prius ends up toward the top of the usual reliability surveys.
The recalls and TSBs have largely been preventative measures; most of the cars included had experienced no issues prior to the repairs being made.
On the whole, the only people who are going to argue with the car’s success are those who are hankering for a fight. Personally, I was skeptical about prospects for the battery’s longevity, but their battery management systems appear to have performed quite nicely.
“This model is universally called the gen1.5 Prius (except by you).” And the guy that trained all the Toyota technicians on the west coast that were authorized to service this generation in the US.
I guess better terminology would be that the first model we got in the US used the 2nd generation hybrid system.
Fact is that the power train we got in the first model that hit the US shores was different than the original Japan only model giving them time to work out a lot of the kinks. None the less they missed a few things and rather than issue recalls they did their secret service campaigns. The same guy that did the initial training also traveled around showing how to do all those campaigns and was called in to diagnose problem cases. After a couple of years he quit Toyota and started his own business traveling around the US training those of use working in independent shops.
“The recalls and TSBs have largely been preventative measures; most of the cars included had experienced no issues prior to the repairs being made.”
Which is my point, that they did their secret service campaigns before most people experienced a problem but did not issue recalls, so that no one knew there were problems potential or otherwise.
Since when did TSB’s become “secret”? They’re a matter of public record.
You’re making it sound as if there’s some sort of great conspiracy involving late night backroom meeting and black (hybrid) helicopters. It’s just a car, one which just so happens to be both innovative and reliable.
Toyota has TSBs and their Secret Service program that yes are not part of the public record and they do not inform the owner of the vehicle when one is performed. Other mfgs do it too, but Toyota is the king of it. TSBs are typically only done when there is a complaint or problem. They usually start off with “if the customer complaint is….then perform this procedure, if the customer complaint is not….. do not perform this procedure.
On the whole, the only people who are going to argue with the car’s success are those who are hankering for a fight.
You put your finger on it, which is why I try to mostly keep out of these pissing matches…
I have driven and ridden in Gen2 and the current generation Prius. I like the newest one better; the seats are more comfortable for me, and the car is quieter on the road. But my hybrid of choice right now (after over nine years in the less-ambitious Honda Civic Hybrid) is our 2009 Camry Hybrid that we purchased last year. It’s even smoother and quieter than the Prius, and delivers over 30 mpg, city or highway. Not bad for a substantially bigger car. However, it wouldn’t even exist if it were not for the Prius and its drive train, which has proved its reliability and its smoothness.
Since I live in the Seattle area, I literally can’t walk or drive a block without seeing a Prius. I have a co-worker with a first-generation Prius in that same shade of silver. The darn thing looks brand new. Prius drivers, especially the early adopters, are the sort of people who take care of the things they own. I’m guessing that 30 years from now, old Prii will be the urban retro-hipster’s car of choice, much as an old Falcon is today, as long as the cost of replacement batteries isn’t too high. The biggest problem that tomorrow’s hipsters will probably face might be all the rear-end paint damage caused by all those bumper stickers!
I have mixed feeling about the Prius. On the one hand I admire it for the extraordinary commitment by Toyota to make it work. The world is a better place because of the Prius.
On the other I loathe it for starting a change in attitudes towards cars, especially among young people.
Like most devices that are more electrical than mechanical there is no pulse, no rhythm. Internal combustion engines breathe and exhale and make a car feel alive even if you are just a passenger. You can experience a deeply satisfying, personal connection with an ICE car.
I’m not saying people don’t love their Priuses. Of course they do but it’s more about the worry and guilt-free aspects of the car. When someone tells you how much they love their new tankless water heater you keep that in mind but don’t go out and buy one until your old one needs replacing.
It’s not just the lack of a heartbeat and styling-by-IBM (though the new ones look nice) — the Prius steering has no life and the brakes are non-linear. There is no falling in love emotionally when these things aren’t done right.
It’s all about chemistry, or was before the Prius came around.
I believe what you’re saying is that it’s the ultimate four-wheeled appliance.
It’s about turning a warmblooded contraption into a coldblooded one, hating that myself, and watching a generation of younger people embrace it without experiencing the charms of a car with personality.
Sustainability doesn’t have to be boring (see Tesla) and that’s where Toyota messed up on the Prius, to the long-term detriment of their own business.
Not just young people. A friend of mine who could afford most anything ended up buying a Prius after owning all kinds of cars, including European and Japanese sports cars, all but one of which were stick shifts. I’ve noticed that the Prius has changed her. She is no longer interested in cars; now they are just an appliance to get from A to Z, in the way the toaster heats the morning bagel. Kind of sad.
If you’ve had to deal with traffic full of morons in their BMWs and SUVs and so forth, then wouldn’t you lose a little bit of passion for driving?
I no longer enjoy driving. There are too many assholes on the road. People don’t use common courtesy anymore.
How am I supposed to enjoy driving?
You know, just because someone lusts over a Prius, does not mean that they are wrong or stupid or whatever you think.
My philosophy is, “Drive what you like and to hell with what others think!”
Let me guess Rustin Peace you have a natural gas or electric fireplace and love it, right? Not me.
I have an old house with a wood burning fireplace. I actually look forward to the winter so I can fire it up and have people over. Many guests have told me they have never sat in front of a real fire, with all of the crackle and pop and smokey goodness. That’s really sad.
Out here a farily recent trend is the stocking of shrink-wrapped firewood at all of the supermarkets and 7/11s. This was a super smart move and has actually increased the use of real fireplaces.
No one uses fireplaces for heat anymore. They are there for enjoyment when the mood strikes.
Like fun to drive in a car, you may not use it every day but when the traffic is clear there’s nothing like bonding with your ride. Maybe you have forgotten that because of your Prius.
Like real trees, real food and real fireplaces I am hopeful that real cars will survive despite the Prius. The “everyman” Tesla can’t come soon enough.
The Prius is not a threat to your existence. If you don’t want one, then don’t buy one.
Like someone said… it’s not the HEV-ness of the Prius that annoys “the rest of us” it’s the Toyota-ness. They have cornered the market and the only flavor out there is Toyota.
When the charms of the ICE went away they should have worked harder on styling, road feel, steering and brakes. But they didn’t because they didn’t have to. That’s what sucks.
Fortunately there is competition and Tesla will reap the rewards. The younger generations will aspire to those and the Prius, as we know it, will be as forgotten as a chrome Christmas tree. I hope.
I highly doubt that the Prius will be forgotten at least not for a long long time. In some markets of the US it is Toyota’s best selling car if not the overall best selling car.
“My philosophy is, Drive what you like and to hell with what others think!”
As is mine!
The thing is, I rarely hear anyone in my V8 gas guzzling circles walking up to Prius owners to tell them how bad their choice of car is. I’ve encountered more than a few Prius owners who weren’t afraid to wax poetically about how much more “enlightened” they are or how they’re “better educated”, while throwing out buzzwords like “wasteful” and “large footprint” when describing old ICE cars. It amazes me how people like that call themselves “open minded” when their outlook is no less hard wired than anyone elses.
It’s true, most Prius owners today really aren’t like that, it’s a negative stereotype. But stereotypes don’t come out of nowhere. Those cars induced a lot of smugness from their core owners in the early-mid 00s, especially by outspoken celebrities who have too much time and money on their hands. THEY are the ones who turned what was an engineering marvel into a polarizing figure, not the ones who don’t like them today. What should have been a car known for primarily as an engineering marvel, instead became perceived as the green movement’s Trojan Horse to the EVIL corporate auto industry.
Really, as I said earlier, I’m indifferent to the Prius as a car. I actually take on more hatred at a personal level for minivans/SUV/CUVs on a daily basis since I can’t see over/around them in traffic with their factory tinted windows. I just don’t look at things like they’re handed down by the heavens to benefit mankind. The Prius to me is just another car. It’s not a revolution, nor a revalation(which, despite it’s common usage, is a personal feeling, not an all encompassing one), or most obnoxiously, “Genesis!”. It’s just another car. I feel the same way about the hype smart phones have had in recent years. Goodie, you can goof off on twitter/facebook… what else can it do that I care about again?
My mother bought a 2005 new and is still driving it 110K or so later. The only problems I recall with it were some kind of water leak into the right front passenger compartment from beneath the dashboard. Other than that it required things that, as a 30 year old who has only driven 70s and 80s RWD American sedans, I don’t really understand, such as “software updates”. Overall it averages 46-50 mpg, more towards the 46 in the cold weather. Mom’s definitely a lefty, but not a bumper sticker person. We don’t do stickers.
I won’t bash the car for doing what it does well. It gets great mileage, is *reasonably* comfortable, and clearly is very reliable. Except for the rear window it has solid visibility.
However, I think it is hideously ugly on the outside, and extremely bland and uninteresting inside. Even the horn, centered on the little go-kart steering wheel, is awful, emitting a castrated little ‘bleet’ rather than an authoritative ‘honk’. Prius represents to me an almost perverse reverence to function over form, in which everything attractive, everything that might be of interest, has been removed, other than power options, in the name of efficiency.
Indulging in metaphor, to me Prius is a four-wheeled symbol of almost everything I abhor about the corporate world that, for the past few years, has accelerated its takeover and transition of my profession (law) from a profession to a business. We are all Priuses now, unadorned. It all makes me want to puke.
Except for rare and reluctant rides in my mother’s passenger seat, I wouldn’t be caught dead in one.
The Taxi industry here has adopted Hybrid toyotas with a vengance here both Prius and Camry flavoured.
Ford was the traditional Taxi here with dedicated cars designed for severe service they have tried to reenter that market though with their ecoboost, and got rebuffed by operators, Toyota offered 300,000 km warranties on Hybrid Camrys so who wants a Falcon cab, NOBODY.
I would like to buy a good second hand Prius, Bryce, but you cannot here! All snapped up by the taxi companies, and run up to interstellar mileages.
Would this be one of the main reasons for the death of the Falcon? No more fleet sales to the taxi companies
Taxi companies usually buy second-hand cars anyway, Ford haven’t done an official taxi pack for 10 years plus
My interest in getting a Prius was piqued by a ride in an NYC cab not too long ago – I was surprised at how comfortable, clean and roomy the Prius was as a hack, and told the driver so – then he told me it had 125+k miles on it and was a few years old. I was shocked. He said it got over 50 mpg in city driving and was built like a tank. Due diligence tells me that Toyota overbuilt the heck out of these things, in the old Toyota style…I worry about what will happen when these start being built in the US…
No they had a Taxi versions of the Crown Vic to the end of production. In fact they offered 2 the standard length P72 and the 6″ stretched P70. The also offered the Gaseous fuel prep package so they were ready for conversion to CNG. On CNG the fuel cost is less than that of the Prius in many areas. One of the reasons that the Panther received its multiple stays of execution was the NYC taxi and town car operators crying about the fact that Ford was discontinuing it. In NYC and some other places where taxis are heavily regulated the cars can’t be more than 5 years old so they can justify buying new cars.
“…and the early adopters have moved on to Teslas and Leafs.”
Actually, I believe the car most Prius owners trade their Prius for these days is a Chevy Volt.
Teslas are too expensive, and if a Prius owner buys a Leaf (or any BEV, for that matter), they keep the Prius and use the Leaf as a second car.
“Teslas are too expensive, and if a Prius owner buys a Leaf (or any BEV, for that matter), they keep the Prius as a second car.”
There fixed it for you. Many people buy a Leaf as their “second car” but it usually becomes their primary car.
I was looking all over that back bumper for the “I’m Vegan And I Vote” sticker, but to no avail. Like it or loathe it, the Prius is a significant vehicle. Toyota took a chance on a new technology, pilot tested it in Japan to work the bugs out, and then hit the US market. The first generation tested the US market, and the second generation went on to define the image of a hybrid car. I think its become the automotive equivalent of ‘Band Aid’ or ‘Kleenex’ – it defines ‘hybrid’ to non car folk. And, the folks that drive them love them and seem to be excited about their vehicle. And they do make so much sense as a taxi too even more so with the V version. Makes the Crown Vic taxi look wasteful (sorry Panther fans).
Its not my cup of tea as an enthusiast to drive, but one can’t deny its a very interesting driving experience for sure.
My experience with Prii has been limited to taxis. There’s a local taxi company, Green Cab that only uses hybrid vehicles and surprisingly, their rates are very reasonable when compared against other taxi companies.
I’ll never forget the first time I took a ride in a Prius. It was odd. Little if any noise. Reasonably accommodating. The only thing that bothers me is the display for the MPH. That would take some getting used to.
I really want to buy a secondhand Prius one day but the prices aren’t very affordable at this point. I know that they retain their value and if I were in the market, I’d wait a few years when the current generation starts to make way for the next generation, whatever that is. Most of the Prii for sale where I live are 2005-up.
A miserable appliance. Just looking at them makes my car-loving soul die a little.
But it’s an achievement which leaves me awestruck at the sheer engineering power of Toyota: revolutionary technology combined with high quality on the first try. Toyota may not make the best cars in the world (at least for enthusiasts), but this is perfect illustration of why they’re the best car company in the world.
These cars are indeed good at what they do best…get great gas mileage. And they are impressive from a technological perspecitve and live up to Toyota’s excellent reputation for reliability and resale.
However that comes at the cost of generally being the worst cars in their price range in terms of comfort, driving dynamics and overall performance. That’s why they don’t get much respect from car enthusiasts, most of whom tend to be DRIVING enthusiasts. They make Corollas look like BMWs.
Are any of you familiar with the Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry sells Toyotas for a couple of days??? His wife, Cheryl, called their Prius Peppy…”Let’s take peppy.”
I remember that one. I love how they incorporated the Prius into so many episodes. Hard to say which one is best but in my book it’s “Carpool Lane”, where Larry picks up a prostitute so he can use the carpool lane and get to Dodger Stadium on time.
Maybe the funniest episode in the history of TV.
Now, THAT’s peppy!
Apparently Larry David and his wife are total enviro-activists in real life, and the Prius was placed in the show to reflect that.
The Toyota Prius excels because it’s personal transportation for people who don’t like cars all that much. It’s reliable, starts, stops, and goes around curves when asked, gets great gas mileage, and keeps the occupants in more relative comfort than, say, riding the bus.
The Prius appeals to the same buyers that made huge successes of vehicles like the Model T, VW Beetle, sixties’ traditional compacts (Valiant, Falcon, Nova), and minivans.
Oh, I love cars but the idea of going a few days/weeks without buying much gas is tempting. When you live in Vermont, EVERYTHING is expensive and every little bit of savings here and there adds up.
I wonder how much fuel I’ve wasted passing left lane squatting stereotypical weenie Prius drivers on the right…
I would have just remained silent in this thread, but after absorbing the overtones that true auto enthusiasts require an all-encompassing embracement of every advance in four-wheeled technology, in an attempt to trick us non-Prius fans into liking them, I just have to take the bait.
Being enthusiastic about cars, no matter the cost or sociopolitical ramifications of them, is what makes a REAL auto-enthusiast. It doesn’t matter where your specific interests in them lie. Performance, luxury, economy, style, it doesn’t matter. I embrace all REAL enthusiasts, even if I don’t care for their particular cars. Otherwise I too could make a blanket statement like “I don’t know how someone can call themselves an auto enthusiast if they don’t like the 71 LTD”.
And sorry but bumper stickers of any form are as “un-car-guy-like” as it gets. The car should be on the mind, not the mind on the car.
My opinion of the Prius as a car? Pure indifference. It’s a car I’ll never own based purely on driving characteristics, styling and layout. Does that mean I dismiss it’s technology? No! Does that mean I embrace it then? Also no! It’s just not in my wheelhouse(so to speak) as I place greater emphasis on styling over aerodynamics and advancement with internal combustion over advancement in batteries.
Really, the problem I have with Prii(besides that pluralization) is that they represent the decline of motoring enthusiasm. Just look at it’s parent company since it was released; They had Celics, Supras and MR2 sports cars under the Toyota umbrella before the Prius. Since then The the quirky or “exiting” models are under the Scion umbrella, seemingly to make it look as though Toyota only makes dull, friendly, efficient A-Bmobiles that won’t scare off their new eco-minded customers. The Prius itself is a badge of honor for people who think the 20th centuries progress irreparably doomed mankind and that the highway system is a necessary evil. Their Car then is a futile attempt to minimize their footprint.
+1. Nicely stated.
Not a fan at all, but then I’m not a fan of Toyotas either. I just don’t think Toyota has come out with anything all that exciting for drivers lately. Really the whole Toyota lineup seems to be “appliances” for people who just want to get from one place to another. I guess the “fun” went to Scion. Anyway, if that’s what you want, fine. I guess I just find it funny when I notice Prius drivers speeding down the highway at 70mph or whatever. It’s like, okay, you bought this car to get great mileage and then you throw all your gains down the toilet by speeding. Yah, that makes total sense. But as others have said, I think a lot of times hybrid drivers just buy them for the “prestige” of being seen in one, as they’re fairly expensive compared to so many non-hybrid new cars that you can buy and still get 40+mpg. EDIT– I think Matt and I were typing at the same time.
I am a fan of Hybrid technology but not a fan of the Prius. It is for those folks that not only like saving money on gas(always a good thing) BUT feel compelled to show off they have a Hybrid car.(I would rather have a Civic Hybrid which is a normal looking car)
Seriously I have really never saw the point of hybridizing small cars. Most small cars get excellent fuel economy. Take the two penalty boxes Toyota sells: Prius C(the small one) and the 2 door Yaris hatchback. before Taxes and other happy horse crap the top of the line Yaris is about $17,000(according to the US Govt.’s fuel economy website) and the top of the line Prius C is $23,000 so there is a $6000 difference in purchase price. The Prius C gets a combined 50MPG per gal and the Yaris manual gets 33 combined and the Yaris auto gets 32 combined. So for $6000(or more because dealers mark the crap up on these things) you get 17 or 18 more miles for $6000 more and with about 30hp less then the Yaris(the Yari and the Prius C both use the 1NZ family of engines(the C is 1NZ-FXE and the Yaris the 1NZ-FE)
I have never figured out why pollster’s always say Prius drivers are some of the most educated car owners out there. Must not be educated in economics as even with the cost of gas at close to $4 a prius owner still does not break even for about 6 or 7 years and by that time you best be saving for the replacement battery pack which costs $2000 to $3000.
Now if they have a large truck with a 35-40MPG hybrid system, sign me up
Most Prius owners keep their cars at least ten years like we did.
Many better-educated people appreciate the high technology, and also are glad to get around without putting so much carbon into our air. The economics are secondary.
No one asks the Porsche owner how they can justify the money they spent over a Corolla. It certainly doesn’t get to its destination any sooner. If you’re not driving basic transportation, which nowadays will get you everywhere perfectly well enough, then you’re spending your money on something subjective. Performance, comfort, style, status, technology, even social responsibility, are all subjective, they’re each wonderful and they’re why we all love our cars.
“It’s all good, man.”
I did a spreadsheet trade-study on this very issue back in 2009 when we were car-shopping, & concluded, similar to you, that unless fuel prices got high & stayed high (still not happening), I would not recover the price premium over a Civic LX or Corolla for 8 yrs or more. BTW, I drive about 15kmi annually.
Now for high-mileage drivers (like taxis), it does make more sense, while my sister-in-law traded her Jag for a used one since she lives in tax-happy CA.
I did the math when they first came out and my numbers showed that gas had to get to about $3.75 per gallon to break even vs a similarly sized conventional car in the time an average person keeps the average car which was about 6 years at the time.
Don’t forget the horrible environmental toll of manufacturing those batteries.
Really? Where did you get that idea? Are you confusing the nickel-metal-hydride battery with the very toxic nickel-cadmium NiCad batteries we all used to use and throw away? The materials in hybrid car battery packs are no more environmentally unfriendly than lots of other components in all cars. See the Wikipedia for NiMH battery details.
No, I’m not talking about NiCad. NiMH uses rare earth metals and has caused significant recent environmental damage in China, and previous damage in Canada. From howstuffworks.com:
“There are additional environmental concerns related to those rare earth metals, like those used in the magnets of hybrid batteries. In recent years, rare earth metals like lithium have been imported almost exclusively from China, which was able to lower its prices enough to monopolize the industry [source: Strickland]. One of the reasons China could sell lithium so cheaply was because it widely ignored environmental safeguards during the mining process. In the Bayan Obo region of China, for example, miners removed topsoil and extracted the gold-flecked metals using acids that entered the groundwater, destroying nearby agricultural land. Even the normally tight-lipped Chinese government admitted that rare earth mining has been abused in some places. A regulator at the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology in China went so far as to tell The New York Times, “This has caused great harm to the ecology and environment” [source: Bradsher].”
And from your Wiki article:
“However, mining and processing the various alternate metals that form the negative electrode may pose other types of environmental impact, depending on the metal, mining method, and environmental practices of the mine.”
You keep listing the exact same arguments that I’ve seen against hybrids for years.
Again, it all comes down to what one is willing to spend.
I don’t like SUVs but I grudgingly accept that they are all over the place and the majority get absolutely SHITTY gas mileage.
If you want a waste of money, look at gas-guzzling SUVs. Don’t get me started on “hybrid” SUVs. Still a big, bulky piece of shit, usually driven by women who can barely figure out how to maneuver the thing. Not to say that their male counterparts aren’t just as bad but around here, most of the large pickup owners are male and they can’t drive for shit either.
There is a 2001 here in town that has over 300k km on it and it still looks great. The owner says it still has original battery pack and he has never had any problem with it at all. This car is on the street all the time and has a clean body with no rust which is amazing considering its attacked by the climate and the winter road crews.
Nice article about a revolutionary car that showed how ****ed Detroit was at the time. The shift lever on these vehicles is so, odd. Then again, Toyota did its own stupid moves by selling an electric RAV4 then stopping production when the proposed California Emission Requirements were beat to death. Now I know assuming gets you into trouble and can make you look like a prick, but all the leaves under the hood make me wonder how much of a car person the owner actually is.
Is there going to be an article on the Chevy G-Series or the Pontiac Firefly anytime soon?
All those leaves are outside, on the cowl vent area. That first-gen Prius was a total leaf magnet, I was always scooping them out of there.
My beef with the Prius goes back to the early days of it’s popularity here in the US. There was so much tax money being thrown (I know, credits and all that, but still) at them, plus the other perks like being able to use the carpool lane with one person only, that anyone who spent years in traffic could easily become angered by these actions.
On top of that, there was the once prevailing attitude that you were somehow “saving the planet” by driving a Prius. Especially not, when they shipped the early models all the way from Japan to the US. The carbon emitted by the container ship alone probably erased any carbon not burned by the cars themselves.
But, I’ve driven several of the 2004 and later generation cars; they drive like cars. A little different driving experience than my usual diet of ICE powered cars, but mostly like a car. It is a supreme commuter, and the quietness is something that I really appreciate now that I’m older (words I thought I would never say…). Like so many here have posted, it’s an appliance. It may be the Hitachi to my Frigidaire, but both are appliances.
Now that the “saving the earth” furor has worn off and these things are part of the background noise, I have no antagonism against them. In a way, they helped open the road to such devices as the Volt, the Leaf, Fisker and Tesla. Chevy alone has so many more small cars choices than it did before, the aforementioned Volt, the BEV Spark and now the Cruze diesel. Ford has it’s own whole range of hybrid vehicles and Fiat is contributing to Chrysler’s BEV ventures, too. Someone else earlier mentioned that regular cars are getting more fuel efficient by the week, it seems.
For the folks who aren’t afraid to fly their geek flag, the Prius is a great car. I can appreciate someone who is happy with their car because of it’s unique capabilities, they’re just as much as an enthusiast as I am. Just in a different way.
It’s GREAT that regular cars are getting better gas mileage. The market is paving the way where government couldn’t.
It’s easy to piss-n-moan about CAFE standards but it’s not unrealistic to assume that gas will only get more expensive down the road as demand from developing nations (India, China, etc) increases. If such nations are smart, their auto companies will look into ways to make their vehicles more fuel-efficient or push and prod their partners to do so.
I’ve always wondered, is it possible for demand to level-off and prices to lower or at least stabilize if more nations use fuel-efficient vehicles?
“It’s GREAT that regular cars are getting better gas mileage. The market is paving the way where government couldn’t.”
Not to get into a whole ideological argument, but it wasn’t entirely market forces spurring people into more fuel efficient cars. The emissions mandates by California (which is one of the reasons why the Prius was so heavily marketed there) and the concomitant tax credits and other incentives paved the way for greater levels of acceptance of the Prius than (IMO) is given credit for these days.
That the Prius and other EREV, BEV and other hybrid cars are background noise is proof of how far we’ve come in adjusting our perspective. In 2003, I don’t think I could have imagined GM or Ford or VW having (or anyone else but Honda and Toyota at that time) it’s own hybrids, BEV’s and alt fuel (compared to gasoline) cars. But now, just part of the landscape. Which is good.
I personally would like to see more alt-fuels gain acceptance and wider distribution. Butanol is just about a drop-in replacement for gasoline, and there is more than one way to produce it; we could maintain some of our larger vehicles (which we clearly need in this part of the world) without the pain of using petrochemicals to fuel them.
Other alt fuels would be great, too. The mandate for ethanol in our fuels is a compromise, because with current technology and materials available not much else would ramp up to meet the demand. Since unleaded fuel was demanded by the government in the mid-1970’s, there has been limited involvement by the Federal government to change fuels. Much has been done to change cars however. With detrimental results, IMHO.
But, I’m happy to be the beneficiary of any of these advances. Less fuel burned by commuters means more fuel for my muscle car.
Or maybe more fuel for India or China…
A lot of opinions here … that’s good. As a Gen2 owner I have changed my own opinion quite a bit over the past 5 years of ownership. I also own several motorcycles and our other car is a 5 speed Turbo VW; and until a few months ago, we also had a 5 speed turbocharged Subaru. But in the end, none of these cars is much fun compared to the bikes, and the Prius is smooth, quiet, and economical. Regarding value and break-even, our Prius, well-equipped as they say in ads, cost about $21K in 2008 dollars. In many ways its a bigger car than a Corolla … more comparable to a Camry in leg and headroom, or a a Matrix for luggage space. So for us, the purchase price was quite reasonable and the fuel economy was a bonus. Finally, as a car buff, I should appreciate Smart cars, but unless you place a lot of value on parking size and don’t want a motorcycle, the Smart’s function/economy balance seems untenable.
And herein lies the real reason the Prius became the success it was. By 2004, when the gen2 version appeared, even discounting the high-tech drivetrain, the Prius was packaged very well. It might have ‘looked’ like a small, Corolla-sized car, but the interior room was much closer to a Camry. Coupled with the versatility of the hatchback design, the Prius was pretty damn functional with the same sort of practicality (and disdain) as a minivan.
The gen1 Prius may have paved the way, but it wasn’t until the gen2 Prius that sales really took off and will be remembered as setting the bar for all hybrids to come.
Yes, it was roomier than a Corolla, but still as cheap and underwhelming as an Echo. Which isn’t necessarily a horrible thing, but no ICE could have gotten away with that, it would have been crucified by the media.
Thing is, a Prius with an ICE engine could be almost as economical as the hybrid drivetrain for a lot less cost. Much of the fuel savings comes from things like aerodynamics, little hard tires, and lightweight (usually cheap) materials. People pay a premium for this in a Prius but won’t in ICE cars. As interesting as the Prius is as a piece of technology, I find consumer behaviors towards it far more fascinating than the car itself.
Again, where’d you get that idea? All Priuses are steel-bodied four-door sedans, with no more use of lighter materials than comparable ordinary cars. (Unlike the mostly-aluminum 1st-gen Insight.) This 1st-gen Prius: 2765 lb. and 48 mpg (EPA combined), 2001 Corolla: 2410 lb and 34 mpg.
Cheap as an Echo inside? Mine wasn’t. Very good seats, a good stereo, AC, power windows, etc.
You have a good point about the low rolling resistance tires. Those skinny things wore out every 20K miles. I finally gave up and put normal Goodyears on, it cost maybe 1 mpg. Toyota gave up eventually and they now put normal tires on Priuses. I’ve got Michelins on my 2010.
There were a few hidden things they did for weight savings, one example was the magnesium used in the seat frames. They would have been much heavier than a Corolla if they didn’t sneak in a few weight saving materials here and there.
As far as the tires it wasn’t so much the fact that they were LRR tires as much as it was that the LF tire was load to its limit, or above if the driver was above average weight.
I test drove a 2nd Gen, I admit I haven’t been inside a 1st Gen and shouldn’t have generalized like that. The 2nd and 3rd Gen interiors are not terrible, but they are not up to the standards of other cars in their price range.
Here is a C&D article on the C that sums up a lot of our feelings:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-toyota-prius-c-instrumented-test-review
0-60 10.9 sec
Observed fuel economy: 39
“It’s not that we dislike fuel-sipping cars. Quite the opposite. To achieve high-mpg numbers, economy cars generally possess properties we laud, such as a low curb weight and a manual transmission. Low grip and meager horsepower are part of the eco-friendly bargain, but they also mean the car’s limits can be fully exploited within the legal speed envelope. And they’re affordable. There are plenty of fuel-efficient cars on the market that we’d wholeheartedly recommend to a gearhead friend.
The Toyota Prius C is not one of those cars.”
The 1st-gen Echo weighs in at 2,055 lb. so its only 355 pounds lighter than the 1998-02 Corolla even though this version of the Corolla was almost 10″ longer (9.4″) than the Echo, 164.6″ for the former and 174.0″ for the latter. The 1st-gen Prius Hybrid meanwhile was measured at 169.6″ long which makes this version 5″ longer than the Echo and 4.4″ shorter than the Corolla. However of the 3, the 1G Prius Hybrid 4 Door Sedan had a longer wheelbase at 100.4″ compared to the Corolla of that era at 97.0″ and 93.3″ for the Echo 4 Door Sedan. The width of all 3 cars were not that much different 65.4″ for the Echo, 66.7″ for the Prius and 67.0″ for the Corolla. The curb weight differences between the Echo 4 Door Sedan at 2,055 lb.vs. this 1G Prius Hybrid 4 Door Sedan at 2,765 lb. were very significant at 710 pounds difference. This Prius was even heavier than that of the Corolla by 355 pounds.
In yet another case of the CC effect I saw one of these today for the first time in quite a while.
Same here. I was struck by the sort-of-retro style of the “Hybrid” script on the back of the car as I followed it.
I love that, it’s the same font they used on transistor radios when we were kids.
Some of you Prius haters seem almost deranged.
The Prius is a seriously clever piece of kit, but it’s not the sort of car that you like – so you invent meaningless criticisms. It’s an appliance. The shift lever is “odd” (you couldn’t work out how to use it?). They are driven too slow ( or too fast – take your pick). They “represent the decline of motoring enthusiasm” ( really? – most of those who own one and post here seem enthusiastic about their Prius). It doesn’t “save the planet” ( no? You’re kidding me, it doesn’t save the planet? – who’d have thought…….). People who love their Prius aren’t really enthusiasts. It doesn’t look normal. It’s ugly, slow, a waste of resources and a waste of space. Yuk!
But worst of all it represents everything that’s wrong about the corporate world generally and the legal profession in particular.
Poor little car. Go and whine about something else for a change. Leave the Prius to get on with its work. It’s good at it and will be busy long after your enthusiast champions are just garage queens and concourse tarts.
I love it.
We’re all too ready to prove that a hybrid isn’t worth the money, has a bad political image, is a complete waste of time, etc., etc., etc. And that their owners are a plague on autodom for being completely indifferent to the wonder and beauty of the automobile.
And.
We’re more than happy to laugh at the owner of a SUV or CUV because they never go any further off road than the shopping mall parking lot.
But.
Should somebody have the wonderful good taste to buy an honest to God sports car, he never catches any s**t about never taking it on the local road course for a track day, or ever taking driver’s school so he can learn to use that fine piece of machinery to its ultimate.
And.
The owner’s of the most useless bits of four wheeled eye candy ever made, the muscle car, are never ragged for their propensity to go thru their entire ownership of the car without ever having done a pass at the local drag strip and picked up their times.
My, we’re picky about our grumping, aren’t we?
That’s because legalities aside, you didn’t need to go to a strip or learn to race to enjoy the performance of a muscle car. And most were actually reasonably practical in their ability to haul people and initial cost. Not to mention their style and character.
I don’t know anybody who owned a muscle car back in the day who never opened it up and enjoyed it once in awhile. Contrast that to the CUV drivers I know, none of whom have ventured off road.
The Prius does have a lot of redeeming qualities and most people here have admitted as much.
“My, we’re picky about our grumping, aren’t we?”
Damn Straight! It’s my God-given right as a citizen to tell everyone else how to live! 🙂
Ah yes, the old “if you don’t like it you’re a hater” routine, all the while adding nothing of substance to the discussion.
Leave
BritneyPrii alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The 40s and 50s were loaded with revolutionary consumer goods along the lines of the Prius. Take, for example, the artificial Christmas tree and Banquet frozen dinner. Like the Prius these clever little inventions were more convenient, less wasteful and saved you money.
Next up was the all-electric house. This was such a big deal that there was an attraction at Disneyland, in Tomorrowland, called the GE Carousel of Progress in which you could sit and “revolve” around household scenes from the 1800s, 20s, 40s and 70s. It was to quote Wiki “an exploration of the joys of living through the advent of electricity and other technological advances during the 20th century via a ‘typical’ American family.”
I remember it most for being a free ride, with awesome air conditioning and fantastic antique appliances like that vacuum cleaner that grandma had to pump with a handle to create suction.
The carousel didn’t last long. GE management found out that 80% of the attendance was from California and had seen it many times.
The all-electric house? Well if it’s hard to heat an electric car imagine how difficult (and expensive) it is to heat a mid-century modern home with all that glass. They even, I kid you not, had electric pool heaters.
Those MCM homes were nice to look at but in all honesty weren’t that nice to live in. I see more live Christmas tree lots in my neighborhood now than I did as a kid. I haven’t had a frozen dinner in 20 years but we do shop regularly at the local farmers markets, to pick up fresh produce.
Like I keep trying to say it’s not that the Prius is so bad as a transportation device, it’s that it is slowly killing one of the joys of living, which is driving.
Speaking of Disneyland my favorite ride as a kid was Autopia. It was nothing more than a bunch of gasoline powered cars that you could drive along a guided track. The gas pedal worked and also functioned as the brake when you let up (with just as much feel as the regenerative braking in the Prius, I might add).
The point is that back then we got the joy of driving to the point where it was a key attraction at the greatest amusement park on earth.
The Carousel of progress managed to last for quite a few years, it did lay dormant for quite a few too, but was remade into Inoventions when they redid Tomorrowland and it’s rotating platform is still in use. I remember it being sponsored by GM though when I went through it in the early 70’s.
As far as the all electric house goes when I was looking for my current house one of the others that I looked at that had been built in the 70’s had a plaque on the front door put there by the builder proclaiming that it was an “All Electric House”. Out in the Semi-rural area that I live there was no natural gas line until relatively recently so it was either electric heat or propane. My house built in the mid 80’s was all electric for just that reason but when they added gas lines in the 90’s was converted to a gas furnace, water heater and cook top.
My father moved into a brand new “All Electric” house that was built in 1968. It was out in the country as well, and was heated by electric baseboard resistance heaters with an individual thermostat for each room. Each bathroom had an electric heater/fan unit built into the wall to take the chill out of the room. By the 70s in the midwest, all-electric houses became albatrosses due to horribly expensive heating costs. Dad’s next house, while also all-electric, featured a heat pump. That was still not enough to prevent him from investing in a chainsaw, log splitter and wood-burning fireplace inserts for heating purposes. Burning wood for heat became the next big trend in the late 70s, at least out here.
Ah, Gold Medallion homes. My great aunt was the first in my family in the Midwest to buy one new. Electric heating coils in the ceiling – insanely inefficent. When utility bills starting rising after these were built, many were converted to gas heating, etc. You still see those medallions here in SoCal once in a while – a friend lives in a luxury apartment complex circa 1964 that was converted to condos and they left the medallion on the front – very cool. The most perfect example was the Reagan’s house in Pacific Palisades when he was with GE.
http://www.smecc.org/live_better_electrically_medallion_home.htm
Interesting. The house I grew up in, built in 1976, was all electric…I thought nothing of it other than it was more modern than some of the neighbors that had forced air or fireplaces.
We also had radiant heat in the ceiling, which as a kid I thought was the best thing going since you didn’t have baseboards or vents to deal with when arranging furniture and it was completely hidden. It took a long time to heat up but once set actually worked quite well. Of course, I didn’t have to pay the electric bill and window A/C doesn’t work all that great. Eventually my parents updated to forced air when they put in central air conditioning.
I have gas forced air today, which is reasonably efficient but absolutely terrible for controling the temperature in each room. I really miss that ability, but the air circulation is a worthy trade off.
Driving is what you bring to the car, not just what the car brings to you. I had a ball hooning around in my 2001 Prius. Though it was never a cornering machine. (My 2010 corners a whole lot flatter and faster.)
The funny thing is how nobody talks about how malaise-era broughams are terrible because they kill the joy of driving. The C&D review of a 1970s fuselage Dodge said it “cornered like a waterbed” and “the radio knob had more road feel than the steering wheel”.
No one’s saying a Tesla Model S kills the joy of driving either.
You’re kidding, right? Wallowing broughams are criticized on a regular basis here. Almost daily.
And the Prius is no Tesla.
I don’t hate the Prius. I just don’t like it, and most of that has nothing to do with it being a hybrid.
Indeed. The same arguments against the Prius, re-hashed by every red-blooded male that thinks driving a 5 speed somehow makes them superior to slushboxers.
If I bought an used Prius, I would keep my Ranger XLT for a winter vehicle. It’s terrible on gas but great in snow and for hauling things.
You see, you could own a Prius and a muscle car and still be happy. I know that I could.
I could own just a muscle car with no additional car/insurance/registration payments and be way more happy.
I like the Prius but I don’t like the stereotypical “hypermilers” that drive them. I’m talking about people who insist on driving 5-10mph below the speed limit on the interstate just to save even more gas (in their minds that is).
As a 13-year Prius daily driver, I couldn’t agree with you more. A Prius in the left lane blocking traffic makes me crazy. These drivers are responsible for the majority of any Prius-hate that’s out there, and not without good reason.
Your classic new-Prius driver, at least in the early days when Priuses were ‘extra-special’, got all wrapped up in the dashboard mileage video game. The 1st-gen Prius display shows you instantaneous mileage, your trip mileage, a bar graph of your mileage in five-minute intervals, and little bonus icons for each 50 Wh recovered by regenerative braking. I found if I played it right, I could usually get 50 mpg on my commute, at least in warm weather.
The difference in my case, I did my best to never get in anybody’s way! Especially early-on, I was very self-conscious not to be a hybrid slow-poke. It’s not hard at all to be aware of your traffic neighbors, it’s essential to safe driving, and I see traffic-ignorant drivers every day. I think too many hybrid drivers got caught-up in the mileage video game and gave Priuses a bad name.
Now that Priuses are downright common, around here anyway, I see fewer and fewer hybrid slowpokes. Normal people buy them and just drive as well or badly as they always did. Here’s hoping it’s a passing problem.
If anyone should be driving the speed limit or 5 below, it’s me in my gas-guzzling Ranger XLT. I hate to say it but I’m very self-conscious about the fact that I’m wasting tons of money and gas just to keep it on the road. I’m switching to slightly smaller tires soon and getting a tune-up in hopes that it might somehow boost the (dismal) gas mileage.
I only use the left lane for passing as required by state law.
I sure wish Oregon had a left-lane-for-passing-only law.
In our area this guy lost his license for repeatedly driving his pickup too slow on the highway.
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/409633/
Interesting, even as someone who gets frustrated with these people, I wouldn’t think 48MPH (as he claims) on a 55MPH road would be a true danger to others. Of course, the complaints say he was at times driving 30, which certainly would be dangerous.
Lane-hogs drive all sorts of cars, but if they’re in an unusual-looking one (like a Prius), or one we already have a negative feeling toward, we tend to notice them all the more.
A very clear write-up Paul, made for interesting reading, thank you.
My brother-in-law had a 2001 Prius until a couple years ago. I travelled in it several times and drove it at least once. It was nicer to be driven in than to drive. It had narrow 155 tyres and too-soft suspension which made it feel top-heavy and tippy. Quiet and comfy ride were the trade-offs though.
I don’t hate Prii, but I certainly don’t like them because they’re the opposite of everything I like about other cars. And the gen 1 and 2 looks were just too needlessly weird-looking. The gen 3 looks okay though, and the V and C are actually not bad looking at all. But are Prii in my future? Definitely not. I respect those who have them, but they’re just not my cup of tea.
Actually, I must mention the best feature on my BIL’s gen 1. On the dashboard it had a button labelled “Cancelling Extinction”. Clearly these hybrids are capable of bringing far, far more benefit to the environment than any of us thought!
“Cancelling Extinction?” That’s hilarious! What in heaven’s name did that button do?
Sadly it wasn’t nearly as exciting as it sounded! It stopped the instrument panel lighting going dim when the auto-headlights switched on and off. My Nissan Laurel has the same feature but I don’t get the same laughs because the button’s labelled in Japanese instead of English like the Prius was.
Apparently the early UK/US market Prius owner’s manuals refer to the button on page 114, except they call it “extinction cancelling”, and they say it was controlled by turning the dimmer adjustment wheel past a detent. My BIL’s was definitely a dedicated button as part of the instrument panel display though (as is my Nissan’s), but it was a JDM used import, so I assume it differed from the NZ/US-new ones. More on the cancelling extinction button here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/message/4449
So in summary, it’s a case of Japanese-English translation gone astray with an unintentional but hilariously brilliant and apt result!
When I read “extinction cancellation,” I presumed that it must have been a Japanese domestic market model.
There are times that I wished that we drove on the left just so that we could get some of those used JDM cars that you get.
Oh funny, sure that’s the brightness dial.
Okay, a wee bit of internerttery research says that US-spec gen1.5 Prii got a brightness dial/dimmer wheel; whereas the Euro/JDM-spec gen 1.5 got a button instead that just cycled through several levels of brightness, including a no-dimming position. It could be the button shown below to the right of the hazard switch? I could be wrong though as I think the same button on the US-spec Prii does a mph-km/h conversion?
Anyway, although I’m not a fan of the Prii (but I do understand why people are, and I’m not a hater lol), I did think that display panel was very, very cool – even thought I didn’t understand a word of my BIL’s one, the variety of different screens were very informative. It was always fascinating watching the power-flow one and seeing what was charging/discharging etc.
From my whopping 30 seconds of research, it seems that the “extinction!” button controlled the interior lighting, not the dash lighting (as I would have otherwise presumed.)
Presumably, the mph/kmh button would be useful for North America, as that’s resolves one of the few differences between what is required by US and Canadian regulations.
Yes, you’re both right. That button has Toyota’s instrument light icon, and on my car it was the mph/kph button. Which I did indeed use when we went up to BC.
Cool photo, thanks!
“But the Toyota engineers pulled it off, teaching the two oldest propulsion systems how to dance…”
Hey Paul, what’s older than steam? Here’s a 1925 Doble with the man who restored it.
Come to think of it, how about a steam-electric hybrid car? Start right away with electric power, while it builds up a head of steam to recharge the battery, through a nice little turbine. Plenty of range, power it off the land itself. Wood’s carbon-neutral too. Call it the Oregon Steam Hybrid. Hmmm….
Do you think that your marriage would survive trying to teach your wife how to drive it?
Angle per angle, it would not surprise me at all if the 1G 2000-03 Toyota Prius Hybrid 4 Door Sedan were based on a heavily modified 1G 2000-05 Toyota Platz based Echo 4 Door Sedan slightly stretched platform/chassis since all the corresponding body lines matches with each other between the two otherwise distinct 4 Door Sedan Toyotas. This is just IMHO.
Here are various front and rear angles of both the 1G Prius Hybrid and 1G Echo 4 Door Sedan.
When these first came out, I was driving south on the interstate from Burlington VT to the southern part. I was at about 70-75 MPH when one of there blew by me at a pretty good clip. Shortly later he was pulled over by a trooper for speeding.
I probably saw the first Prius stopped for speeding in Vermont.
The first Prius didn’t look like a Toyota. It looked like an early Daewoo. Dreadfully generic Asian styling, in other words. It would have helped sell hybrids, if these had great styling, to accompany their great engineering.
I had a 2003, later traded in on a 2006. I believe the bland styling on the first ones was completely intentional. Toyota probably figured that people would be scared off by the radically different technology so the car should look as non-threatening as possible.
They were completely amazing. A paradigm shift for sure, but one that you could just jump in and drive like any other car. I’ve gone fully electric these days but they are fondly remembered.
How can Toyota be intentionally making the styling ‘bland’, when bland styling was what they were so often accused of for years, with their top selling cars. It’s what defined them for many, for years. They were trying alright.
The bland styling is analogous to IBM’s dress code in the 60s. It was very conservative to balance the scariness of high tech computers.
Jay Leno’s fascinating video on his Owen Magnetic:
https://youtu.be/LYQ2PiX_Z9o
I’ve long argued that the Prius, through about the 3rd generation anyway, served as a “halo car”. It doesn’t at all fit the usual description – an easy-on-the-eyes luxury or high-performance model – but make no mistake, the Prius made Toyota look like they were at the pinnacle of technological leadership that reflect well on other Toyotas, especially as their hybrid tech spread to other vehicles.
But looking now from 2022, I’m unsure about the Prius’s future. Techies and greenies want full EVs now, and the Prius faces strong competition from within the same showroom with the Corolla hybrid, the (almost as efficient but roomier) Camry hybrid, the RAV4 hybrid, and a new Corolla Cross hybrid. There are of course also strong contenders from the likes of Honda, Hyundai, and Kia too. If I were Toyota, I’d move the Prius nameplate to an inexpensive but practical EV, perhaps keeping a PHEV option with 40+ miles of electric range.
As others have pointed out elsewhere, it’s strange that Toyota isn’t expanding the Prius nameplate to their first all-electric car, the Busy Forks…sorry, BZ4X.
It could use a stronger brand, especially with Toyota’s EV tax credits all but exhausted and Subaru having plenty left to offer buyers of the identical (remember badge-engineered “twins”? They’re back!) Solterra.
Yeah, I really don’t know what’s up with all the automakers who think EVs not only should look weird and have weird ergonomics inside, but also need a weird name. I could see myself in one of those new VW bus things if not for the embarrassment of having to tell everyone I drive an ID.Buzz.
Whatever generation it was, I drove a 2004 at work for several years, the mouse shaped one.
On one hand it was a remarkable exercise in engineering, to work and it did work. But it wasn’t nice to drive, even for a company car. Not quite new when it came to me, but IIRC ~20K, it just wasn’t a nice car to drive, both as a hybrid and for non hybrid reasons.
It would fog up the windows in wet weather. Even set to fresh air but worse when on recirculate. The regenerative braking was too grabby and made smooth stops impossible. While power was adequate once rolling, it was so gutless off the line I think I could have gotten out and pushed it across an intersection faster. It was bordering on dangerous in that regard. May have been the tires, but I would typically get a static shock when I got out. That’s not pleasant. Goofy controls like the shifter coming out of the dash. The cruise control rotated with the steering wheel for some bizarre unknown reason. It just wasn’t a pleasant car to drive. But I did take pride, much of my time behind the wheel was in a campus setting and I would see just how low I could get the average MPG. If I stayed on campus, I could keep it under 20MPG. If I got out to the outlying facilities I’d be over 30 in no time.
I’ve also driven newer ones, which still not what I’d personally choose, and they were much better. As well as a Ford Escape Hybrid that was almost pleasant.
What car doesn’t fog up the windows in wet weather? Especially if the insides of the windows haven’t been cleaned recently. I always set it for fresh incoming air during the rain, and turning the A/C on usually clears the windows within seconds.
Toyota has made quite a bit of progress with hybrid brake pedal feel since the ’00s. I drove a 2006 Lexus RX400h several times and while the brakes weren’t overly grabby, the handoff between regenerative-only braking and friction brakes added to it was too noticeable, keeping the brakes from having a normal linear feel from light to heavy braking. The “jet engine shutting down” sound effects from the regen didn’t help matters. Most of those weird sensations were engineered out in the current-gen Camry hybrid and more recent RX hybrids I’ve driven. As for the 2004 Prius, though I found much to admire about the gen2, it did feel a bit tinny and noisier than I’d like.
* (first sentence above should have included “on recirculate”)
Most cars don’t, at least not like this. This wasn’t the usual turn on the defroster and watch it do it’s thing, it was way past that.
Wasn’t this the version of the “Prius” that required dismantling the front end to replace a headlight?
“Improving fuel economy from 25 to 50 mpg results in a savings of 280 gallons per year, at 14K miles/year. And the additional improvement to the lofty PNGV goal of 80 mpg? 100 more gallons saved per year. The law of diminishing returns was never better explained than by that billion-dollar boondoggle. In theory, that is.”
This principle is so important and so misunderstood! The common way we measure fuel economy is misleading. It’s an arithmetic scale in a logarithmic world. Big numbers sound like a big deal, so 50 mpg sounds twice as good as 25 mpg, and 100 mpg must be twice better, right? Wrong!
Our Canadian friends get this right by using a tongue-twisting formulation of X many lagers per 100 kilomumblers driven. Let’s try that here. Taken in real ‘Mercun numbers, a 20 mpg car needs 5 gallons to drive a hundred-mile trip. Raise that by a mere 5 mpg, to 25, and you save one gallon. Or get a 33 mpg car, which gets the hundred-mile trip down to 3 gallons. Saving the next gallon requires a jump of 17 mpg, to 50. To get down to a single gallon burned, you’d need to double the efficiency to 100 mpg. Thus, increasingly diminishing returns for increasingly high technical effort.
It should have been easy for us to look at these numbers and prioritize improvements in the least efficient vehicles, because the sub-25 mpg segment uses so much fuel overall. Instead, looking at the wrong numbers, we slapped mpg standards on cars that were already more efficient, while ignoring the biggest fuel users, trucks, buses and heavy equipment. It’s a tragedy based in misunderstanding math, similar to the way our Farenheit-watching habits discount the magnitude of climate science forecasts expressed in Celsius degrees.
The problem which I’ve always seen with the Prius is one of conceptual execution: that of loading down a platform with 30-50% of its curb weight worth of additional equipment.. Not my idea of efficiency.