(first posted 1/4/2013; revised 7/19/2016)
Putting the Peugeot 504 into proper perspective presents a particular challenge. It’s a vehicle with (at least) three distinct personalities or reputations. I could easily write up three different articles on it, but that might not go over so well here in America, where there are still folks trying to get over CPTS (Chronic Peugeot Fatigue Syndrome) or PTSD (Peugeot Traumatic Stress Disorder). That probably gives you a good clue as to how at least some Americans remember the 504. One thing is certain, it’s not easy to stereotype the 504, at least not from a global perspective..
In Europe, the arrival of the 504 was a fairly momentous occasion. Its predecessor, the 404, was a direct evolution of the line of Peugeots going back to the first post-war 203, and shared similar overall dimensions and configuration. It continued the Peugeot’s tradition of conservative construction techniques and robust build quality. But by the late sixties, the times they were a-changing, and the 404’s narrow, tall body and live rear axle were looking a bit dated.
The 504 represented the biggest departure from the 203-403-404 tradition, although it still incorporated the qualities Europeans had come to expect from a Peugeot, commonly referred to as “The French Mercedes”. But with the 504, that was much more relevant than in the past, as it was a fairly ambitious effort to compete more directly with the Mercedes middle-sized W114/115 range of sedans. It had a larger and significantly wider body, four wheel independent suspension, four wheel disc brakes, as well as larger and more powerful 1.8 L (and 2.0L after 1970) versions of Peugeot’s hemi-head slant four. As a matter of fact, the 504 would be Peugeot’s last new RWD platform ever, as the 604 and 505 were both direct evolutions of the 504. The 504 was destined to have a long life, and that it did (more on that later).
The 504 had an excellent reception in Europe, and was praised by the press for its advanced suspension and superb ride, (mostly) elegant design, excellent handling, comfortable interior and good performance. At a time when BMW’s Neue Klasse sedans were decidedly sportier than the Mercedes and Peugeot, and were more in competition with Alfas and such, the 504 was legitimately seen as the only real direct competition to the Mercedes, which had almost a hammer-hold on its niche in the market. The 504 was awarded the European COTY for 1969, beating out two other superb new cars, the BMW six-cylinder 2500/2800, and the Alfa Romeo 1750.
I vividly remember reading auto, motor und sport’s first test of the 504, and how impressed they were, despite their all-things-German-are-superior slant. Especially with the smooth and responsive 97 hp fuel-injected TI motor, the 504 had a unique combination of qualities and performance at a price that undercut the Mercedes by enough to make it very attractive.
Speaking of attractive (or not), the most startling thing about the 504 when it appeared was its very unusual tail. Like all Peugeots from the 403 until very recent times, the 504 was the work of Pininfarina.
The drooped tail had shown up on a few other Pininfarina cars, like the 1961 Cadillac Jacqueline, where the break is fairly minor in relation to that massive tail.
Pininfarina’s Austin 1800 from 1964 is a different variation of the theme, where almost the whole trunk is downward sloping. In the Peugeot 504, Pininfarina more or less split the difference.
It works better in certain colors, and from certain angles. It’s speculation, but perhaps it was the result of the unhappiness about there being so many Pininfarina sedans looking so similar to the finned 404, that they wanted to give Peugeot something truly unique, or decidedly French-quirky instead of Italian handsome. If so, they succeeded. It’s an acquired taste, and I’ve come to accept it for what it is. Other than that, the 504 was a nice-enough design for the era, with certainly a bit more rounded flair than the stark Mercedes boxes.
Pininfarina also designed (and built) the absolutely superb 504 Coupe and Cabrio, and one would never guess they sat on the same platform and were designed by the same firm. Their styling held up so well over time, and were built from 1969 all the way through 1983 (above), the last of that line of RWD Peugeot coupes and cabrios. These also were the French alternative to the Mercedes SL/SLC and the BMW coupe.
The fact Peugeot also offered a diesel engine (and had since 1961) further enhanced its Mercedes-ness. This was not a converted gas engine, but a very rugged designed-from-scratch unit (Indénor). In the pre-turbo era, it typically made 65 hp (later 70), about the same as the Mercedes of the time. And it was as popular as a taxi in Paris as the Mercedes was in Germany.
One area where Peugeot never quite matched Mercedes was in its interior quality. The seats were always superbly comfortable (these seats are from a later 505), to go along with the ride. But the trim, switch gear, and plastics were just never quite in the same league as Mercedes. But let’s consider the pricing difference too: in the US, a 1975 gas 504 stickered for $5610 ($23,500 adjusted), while the cheapest 1975 MBZ 230 went for a lofty $9172 (38,000 adjusted); a whopping 63% more. In Europe, the price difference wasn’t quite as large, but Peugeot could never command Mercedes prices.
The 504 was significantly roomier than the 404, especially in the back seat, which also distinguished it from the BMW Neue Klasse, not known for its commodious rear leg room.
The 504 was a solid hit for Peugeot in Europe, and certainly furthered the reputation of being a better-than-average quality car. What about Africa, where the 404 had already established a huge foothold on the mid-sized sedan market?
Pictures often speak better than words, so, let’s ponder a few from a place where the 504 developed a near hegemony as the vehicle of choice, until pushed out in more recent years by Toyotas and such.
The 504 was assembled in both Nigeria and Kenya, until 2005, no less. So even though it’s been pushed aside in new car sales, there will be 504s hard at work for decades, undoubtedly.
This is a wagon, which like all classic Peugeot RWD wagons was not just a sedan with a long roof, but a totally different chassis from the front door back, with longer wheelbase, heavy-duty live rear axle, and a superb four-coil rear suspension that gave both a fine ride unloaded, but could also take very heavy loads too. We’re going to stick to the sedan mostly here, having covered all the Peugeot RWD wagons here, as well as one of our writer’s personal take on the 504 diesel wagon here.
But we can’t ignore the 504 pickup, at least not totally. A replacement for the 404 pickup, these rugged beasts had a leaf-spring rear suspension, and seemingly unlimited carrying capacity.
And then there’s the famous Dangel 4×4 conversions, like this one posted at the CC Cohort a while back. You get the picture, eh? The 504 became Africa’s beast of burden, and everyone knew how to keep one going, no matter where it might have found itself, or God forbid , break down. But parts are almost everywhere, and every bush mechanic knows the ins and outs of a Peugeot.
There was even a double-cab 504 pickup, built in China, no less. Peugeot was a very early pioneer in China, establishing one of the first joint-ventures there, with Guangzhou, in 1985. That proved to not be a happy relationship, as the rules for engagement for Chinese JVs hadn’t really been established yet, and Peugeot was a very unhappy partner. By 1997, Peugeot called it quits; talk about bucking the trend in China.
I didn’t mean to bring a fourth continent into the 504 equation, so let’s talk about the 504 in America. In the fifties and sixties, the Peugeot 403 and 404 enjoyed a generally good reliability reputation here, despite the fact that the dealer network was decidedly thin. Even with them, it depended much on access to a knowledgeable mechanic (or owner). But its no secret that the 504 developed a much more inconsistent rep; even an evil one, in some folks’ eyes (stay tuned for at least one colorful comment by a former 504 owner). What happened?
Probably the convergence of at least several factors. Let’s start with the actual car. About the time the 504 appeared, two things changed that Peugeot and some other European manufacturers, most especially French and British ones, did not adapt to successfully. One was smog controls. And the other was America’s love of power accessories and assists.
The early emission controls generally had a deleterious effect on engine efficiency, performance, and increased operating temperatures (retarded ignition timing, etc.). Combined with Americans’ growing preference for automatics, power steering and air conditioning placed dramatically challenges in keeping engines and under-hood temperatures in line.
The little Peugeot four’s direct origins go back to 1290cc in the 203 from 1948 (above). They all had an iron block, with wet cylinder sleeves/liners, and an aluminum alloy hemi head. This construction type was used by Peugeot until the end of that long family of engines, for many decades, and it’s the same basic configuration as used by Citroen and Renault on many of their engines. It was proven over time, but generally in conditions without smog controls and power accessories.
Undoubtedly, these additional stresses made US-bound Peugeots more vulnerable to heat-related issues. Peugeot also pioneered the thermostatically-controlled radiator fan, via an electromagnetic clutch. It was prone to going out of adjustment, or folks didn’t know how to deal with it. Not such a big deal in the sixties, with a lightly-stressed engine; a different story in a heavier 504 burdened with accessories.
The result was all-too many overheating incidents, which commonly resulted in either a warped head, or worse. And there were issues with head and sleeve gaskets, etc… That was just with the engine.
The seventies were the most challenging decade ever for automobiles, in terms of new demands and changes. The US manufacturers had a hard enough time dealing with them, and their reliability reputation dropped substantially. The Germans and Swedes, who were always 100% committed to the US market, made much more concerted efforts to adapt to the rapid changes. They were pioneers with introducing fuel injection in the US, etc.. But the French just never made it a priority, and all of the ancillary aspects of their cars, especially as adapted for the US market, really took a back seat.
The basic mechanical components of the 504 were presumably as robust as ever, but all the Micky-Mouse electrics/electronics required, and wiring and switches, and sensors, and everything else that increasingly constituted a modern car were their undoing. And once the Japanese cars got into gear in the late seventies and eighties, the game really changed. Needless to say, the Japanese were also 100% committed to the US market, and rapidly did what was necessary to soon rise to the top of the reliability rankings.
Against growing expectations (and their own increasing frailties), the French dropped in their reliability reputation, precipitously so. And a boomlet in Peugeot 504 sales during the diesel boom (1975-1981) only added to the potential problems, as folks were buying Peugeots who just didn’t know what they were getting into, sold to them by new dealers who likewise didn’t know what they were getting into. A recipe for…an eventual exit from the US market.
Meanwhile, there are still very happy 504 drivers in the US, as one commenter with 450k on his daily driver 504 commented just the other day. These are owners who have figured out the weaknesses that hobbled many 504s, and fixed them, or worked around them. In the hands of a knowledgeable owner/mechanic, the 504 and 505 are capable of giving excellent service. But that certainly doesn’t represent the face of the typical US buyer.
A close friend of ours bought a used 504 just like this one in 1978 or so, based on my 404 enthusiasm. It was a gas model, with the stick, and a very enjoyable drive. The de-smogged US versions certainly lost their edge, and it felt almost slower than my 404, but it exuded that Peugeot confidence of being able to clear tall buildings in a single leap, thanks to its superb suspension, which was even more sophisticated than my 404’s. She had a mostly good experience with it, but then she drove in the cool climate of the Bay Area. And eventually it went the way of so many Peugeots: traded in on a Volvo, a 760 turbo, in her case.
Peugeot 504 experiences tend to be very polarized; so be it. But anyone who’s ever had one or driven one will attest to its unique ride and other qualities that were mostly un-equaled by any other car in the US in its price range. But that’s all quickly overshadowed by the next breakdown or big repair bill. The world was changing, especially in the US, and Peugeot simply didn’t make a genuine effort to keep up. And the outcome to that was very predictable.
When I was a lad of maybe 6, in the mid 80’s, a neighbor who lived in the next building down in our apartment complex drove a 504. A nice medium blue non-metallic, and I distinctly remember the large gold lion emblem on the grille. I always enjoyed seeing that one in the parking lot…I’ve seen very, very few since then.
Um…wow. That’s about the only Pininfarina car I can recall not inspiring a “meh” or “yuck” reaction in me.
Yeah; what an over-rated plagiarizing hack! I can’t imagine what folks saw in any of his designs, except of course his take a giant Caddy. And even that’s derivative. I bet he saw some early renderings or clays when he visited Bill Mitchell and the GM studios in Detroit.
But then why did Mitchell fawn all over him, and call him the “Maestro”? Hmmm. And I hear Mitchell bought a couple of new Pininfarinas almost every year in Italy and had them set up prominently in the Design Center. My guess is he wanted to show his designers how not to do it, and be genuinely original.
Sorry, Paul, I can’t tell if you’re being forthright or snarkastic here. It’s probably because Pininfarina and Giugiaro and Bertone are so widely lionised and held exempt from critique, let alone criticism, because everyone just knows Italian cars and designs are inherently awesome and perfect and sexy and each of them is unique and original just like a special snowflake. My failure to toe that line here at CC has garnered some spitback. Whatever. My tastes are well off the bell curve and I acknowledge that, but it doesn’t mean I’m going to stop going “meh” and “yuck” when that’s my reaction.
The ratio is about 1 to 10. 🙂
There’s no way I’m going to launch in a defense (or critique) of PF here in a comment. I’ve been meaning to do a series or major article on the subject for years, but it’s a bit daunting.
Yes, there is room for criticism,as there is for any human. But on the other hand, he was by far the single most influential designer of the 40s, 50s and early mid 60s. After that time, he really wasn’t originating designs himself, so we have to also determine if we’re critiquing PF’s own work, or the work of his large company after a certain time.
I understand the the impulse not to toe any line. There’s certainly none here. I’m a fan but not an acolyte of PF. But I also have healthy skepticism about any wholesale dissing of any designer. I’m happy to analyze and debate any specific PF design, but I can’t begin to respond to your broad feelings on the subject, which come across more as skepticism for its own sake rather than from any proper analysis.
What designs/designers do you like? The reason I ask is because almost inevitably, I will be able to draw some connection back to PF. He is the godfather of postwar design, and almost every car designed in that period carries a bit (or more) of his DNA.
There’s a very chauvinistic attitude common in American designers; one only has to read some, and it’s mostly about how original and brilliant they were. I’m happy to give credit where it’s due.
But as I said, all the US design studios were studying every one of PF’s new designs (and other Italians) the minute they could pictures of them, or see it in the flesh. The degree of originality is often profoundly overplayed.
And yes, PF recycled his designs too. How much originality isa designer to have? I can recognize a piece by Mozart, Bach or Beethoven within the first few notes. How original were they?
The reality is that most humans have (hopefully) one great original idea/concept/song/story/picture to give to the world. It’s something that comes from the very fiber of who they are. Once that’s come out, everything henceforth is mostly just a variation of that theme, with influences by externalities (as in other designs and life experiences). There’s not all that much absolutely original creativity in this business, but PF’s was greater than just about any one else’s.
+1
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/pininfarinas-revolutionary-florida-the-most-influential-design-since-1955/
’nuff said.
I have no particular axe to grind with regard to PF, nor am I particularly interested in cultivating skepticism for its own sake. It’s just that I find damn few Pininfarina designs appealing. It doesn’t mean they’re bad or unworthy or anything else, it just means I generally don’t like them. I will say I find even fewer Giugiaro and Bertone designs appealing, but that’s as far as I’ll go.
As someone born and raised in the land of the free, and home of the brave (not to mention home of Galaxie’s and Impala’s) French cars got their reputation because their extreme quirkiness deserved it. I have had Your-A-Pee-On cars, and the only one I liked was my 245 Volvo. Being in the marine biz for 28 years, working on Volvo Penta engines and drives, might make me a wee bit biased…but, end of the day, just give me a damn Ford. Problem solved, money saved. I will add as a side note, the only French car I have ever driven was my bosses Renault 5 Turbo2 back in 1987. The funnest roller skate I have ever driven, and being 19 at the time, I had no idea just how rare these cars were. According to Ate Up with Motor, only about 200 were imported under the radar
Friend’s parents had a bought new ’74 504 gas automatic with ps/ac, and power windows. The same paint and interior as the pictured example, minus the grey 505 seats in this car. A deep maroon with tan interior. Looked nice in that color. The doors would slam like a bank vault, the velour seats were super cushy and comfortable, and the car had a very smooth ride. Never drove it, but rode both in front and back seat. Back seat very impressive, sat up high and lots of room.
They kept the miles low, had it for around 10 years, I doubt it had over 70k miles on it at the end. It still looked great the whole time they owned it. His mom told me power steering and transmission both had problems, and I think the AC was inop for the last couple of years. Very underpowered, quite slow. But it had it’s appeal. His mom was German but the Peugeot was her car, his dad French and he drove a Diesel Rabbit. The family vacation car was a ’63 Suburban, which they kept until ’86.
Too bad about all the accessory and emission quality problems in US form, the basic car was quite nice and well built.
Peugeot was limited it seems by the engine size. Even when the 505 came out in 1980 with FI and a 5 sp, the car took 13 seconds to 60. This is according to R/T. the car Around 1986, the NA 505 shifted to a 120hp Simca based 2.2. A decent inline 6 built off the four ala 164E Volvo would have transformed the car.
The Douvrin PRV 2.8L V6 was available, though I’m not sure if that was at its introduction. Not sure what the take-rate on this was, though. I knew some MB W123 owners back then who said they preferred the Diesel versions over the 280.
He’s essentially right: the little pushrod hemi-head four had reached the limits of its development. Given that it was 35 years old by 1980, that’s not surprising. It was still an exceptionally smooth-running four, but its performance number were slipping as the cars got bigger and heavier.
The V6 was installed in the 505 pretty late in its life. But the 2.2 Simca/Talbot four supplanted the Peugeot 2.0, and it was available in turbo form, which was quite a strong runner.
I’ll be doing a new CC on the 505 shortly.
Can’t remember where I saw this, but I have the impression that the normally aspirated 2.2-liter SOHC four (also shared with some Renaults) was one engine, and the Simca/Talbot turbo four was another. Supposedly the Simca/Talbot engine got turbo’ed because it had a stiffer block.
Quite right; I sometimes forget that the 505 had three different gas fours used in it. The SOHC “Douvrin” four was a co-development by Peugeot and Renault, and came in 1995 2165 cc versions. The Simca Type 180 engine had 2165 cc, and was only used as the turbo engine for the reasons you stated.
Interesting to note the Pug has been replaced in Africa by Japanese cars actually no, African countries import thousands of very cheap Japanese used 4WDs and cars so on price and easy availability the 504has lost out not reliability, for as my BIL noticed touring Tanzania, Botswana namibia and other interesting places without proper roads in recent years rental Japanese cars and 4x4s are seen broken down on a regular basis they are very cheap to buy but like in NZ many lemons are exported amongst the good ones.
I got to be honest, I don’t see the Mercedes Benz influence in this 504. If you’re talking about it from a reliability perspective, I would agree with you. But, I don’t see anything remotely Mercedes Benz like in the design. I think it’s the sloping trunk lid that gets me, that design feature reminds me more of what an American sub compact from the 70s or early 80s would look like rather than anything coming from Stuttgart (Think the bustleback theme, only less overt)
I never once said that the 504’s styling/design was influenced by Mercedes. It obviously wasn’t.
The term “French Mercedes” was coined because the Peugeot played a similar role in France as Mercedes did in Germany: builder of solid, RWD sedans, with a decidedly conservative aspect (unlike Citroen, etc.) And on the European market, the Peugeots were often the most direct competitors (albeit cheaper) to Mercedes for folks who wanted that.
Oh, my mistake Paul. I apologize. Now, I understand why that comparison was made.
Ok, I have read much about this car. I recall seeing only one, a 504, in my life out here. I remember peering into the engine bay of Dr. A’s 504 as she wondered what the problem was. That was 1992. Now I have gone looking for what people say are the quirks of the car and if you know how to deal with them you will be a happy owner. If not you will be a decidedly unhappy owner. So what exactly are the mechanical quirks as I understand the electrical gremlins in models from the mid-70’s and on. If I found a 404 or early 504 what do I need to really know?
I can’t give you that in one quick comment. Peruse the various Peugeot posts here at CC, or find some forums.
I thought the 504 sedans looked about perfect except for that droopy tail.
In this case, I would’ve taken handsome Italian over quirky French any day.
At least the wagons still looked good – until 1974, when those dreadful black 5 mph bumpers were tacked on. But even Mercedes had horrendous ugly 5 mph bumpers in those days.
But by the ’70s, there was an industrial epidemic of replacing formerly sturdy metal with flimsy plastic on almost everything – not just French automobiles. I remember in ’77, a friend had a ’71 FWD Peugeot 304 sedan. Loved the ride, the seats and the styling (no droopy trunk) Hated the mushy shifter and working on the car. With that sideways engine and belt that went around corners to drive the fan – which I believe, still had an electric fan-clutch – it left me wondering why didn’t they just go with an electric fan?
It also made it extra hard to work on, including when we went to replace a rotten fuel hose and the plastic nipple on the fuel-pump cover snapped right off! Something that should’ve been metal but was flimsy plastic! And it took more than a week to get the part. We fixed that, but eventually the clutch went, and my friend dumped the car, as by then, it was rusting so badly, the clutch would’ve cost more than the car was worth!
Another friend had a ’74 504, and actually that one lasted well into sometime in the ’80s,. But they had the car for most of their ownership in Spokane, Washington, where it doesn’t get that hot and they don’t salt the roads. So that car held up OK.
Between 1977 and 1991, I had 3 early ’70s Audi Super 90s, two wagons and a parts-car sedan. Now those cars were never paragons of reliability. In fact they were probably the most trouble-prone vehicles I’ve ever owned. But I loved the wagons performance, ride, handling, fuel economy and cargo-room, their FWD design was relatively easy to work on, and through the ’80s, parts were still availible, even from Audi. And the fuel pump was all metal and never gave me a problem. So I kept it going until parts supplies finally dried up around 1990. That year I got my first Japanese vehicle – an ’87 Isuzu pickup – the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned.
Don’t know if I could’ve kept a Peugeot going that long in those days before the internet. A few years ago, I looked at a ’71 Saab 95 wagon that needed some TLC. I thought those cars had a cult following and parts wouldn’t be that hard to find. Even with the internet, It was very difficult or impossible. So I passed.
I wonder how hard it is today, getting parts for a Peugeot in the US?
Happy Motoring, Mark
Excellent write up on a car that was mostly misunderstood in this country. I always thought it was quite attractive, except for that unfortunate rear end treatment.
Maybe it’s a little presumptuous for me to try to improve on the work of Pininfarina, but I submit these two 505-ish “what if” photochops for discussion and dissection.
.
These photochops are very enlightening. I agree that the dropped tail is a bit unusual but when I look at the 504 with a more conventional rear end as above, all the charm of the car disappears. I’m no designer but to me the dropped tail sort of pinches the rear end and gives the car a more forward, propulsive look. With the photochop the car is a big static block.
By the way, I’m not sure how often designers go into detail about their rationale but I’d love to hear what the designers at PF were thinking when they made the 504. Is there any info about this out there?
Granted it looks more generic with the conventional shape of the rear, but I think the overall proportions of the car are improved somewhat, not to mention that usable trunk space would also be enhanced.
That’s starting to look a bit 604-ish, surprisingly, or not!
Right. The longer I stretched the deck, the more like a 604 it appeared.
I think this look would have done wonders for US sales.
Yup. Good point, JP.
Mostly nice. The drooping tail was not a success, but it did lend a certain character to the 504’s design, and was not a total failure either. I think I understand what they were trying to do with the droop, but it just doesn’t quite make it from a number of angles.
The 604 was essentially a re-bodied 504, hence the similar proportions.
Best part of the real end styling was done by the owner with the “Global Warming is not cool” bumper sticker. 🙂
When I was growing up in early (1970’s) Silicon Valley, I always thought of Peugeots as more “French Volvo” than “French Mercedes.” It may have been because Mercedes and BMWs seemed to appeal to salesmen, bankers and other spivs attached to the hi-tech business while Peugeots appeared to attract the same buyers as the Swedish cars did: college instructors, engineers and other professional types who wanted to show off a little, but not too much. This may have led to Peugeot’s downfall; the German car buyers may not have known much more about their cars, but their jobs required them to put on a good show at all times, so they may have been more willing to spend the time and money to take care of their wheels than the Peugeot owners did.
Interesting write up on a great car and a personal favourite as a Convertible.
Paul refers to the Peugeot as being the French Mercedes; my take would be, for this period and in the UK at least, that Peugeot was the French Volvo or even a French Rover. The price step and the lack of overlap of the Pug and M-B model ranges separated them. But the European and especially German market position of Mercedes was different – in the UK, M-B was unashamedly a luxury brand, never a taxi.
That rear end was an acquired taste and the Landcrab version is even more evident on the original Mk1, without the rather twee fins BMC added.
Roger, as my article makes clear, it wasn’t me that coined the expression “French Mercedes”. It was popularized by the Germans, who appreciated it as an alternative to the Mercedes. It’s quite the compliment, coming from them, as you probably well know.
I grew up hearing Peugeots referred to that way.
I am the one in the group that loved the front end, loved the tail end design, loved everything about it! I had a 79 504D my two complaints were slow as molasses and the fact that the trunk had rusted through so that I could put my whole hand inside and pull something out while still keeping it locked. I did love that car though. The last time I was ever able to ride in one was in 2000. I lived in Cairo and every taxi at the time was a 504.
Apparently the 504 bodies performed exceptionally badly in crash tests.
This one looks pretty scary to me.
I always wanted a 505 turbo, but maybe it was just as well I never got one….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_1b7d7yK7QQ
The ONE thing that scares me from owning a Peugeot… is their engineering penchant for using BRASS gears in the differential!!! I’m not totally certain of this: a late friend told me about this “habit”. Thus, I really “can’t confirm or deny”. Can anyone here?
Peugeot engineering trait from the 201 to most 404, was to use worm-drive rear axles with a bronze crown wheel and pinion, necessitating industrial castor oil as the correct lubricant (incorrect oils would attack the bronze). The worm-drive axles gave a massive reduction ratio with fewer moving parts, provided a lower centre of gravity and enabled a roomier / lower inside rear floor space, but unfortunately sapped more power than hypoid axles. Frequent oil change intervals should be respected too, but are often neglected. It’s safest to deal with the oil change yourself and avoid taking these Peugeots to any garage.
Years ago I got to occasionally drive my boss’s 1971 504, on one occasion a longer 400 mile trip. I tried a short cut that landed me on a 100 mile section of badly corrugated dirt road, and I’ll never forget how impressed I was with the suspension, it soaked up the ruts and bumps and combined with the most comfortable seat I had ever sat it is was a memorable experience. Two years later, I had a 1972 504 in my driveway, just had to have one. It was a wonderful car, no major repairs. The rack and pinion was so much more precise and well weighted than anything else on the road at that time. Wish I had one now. I prefer the early ’70’s 504, simpler and without the ugly US bumpers.
Paul you forgot to mention Argentina, where almost 500.000 were produced during 30 years (1969-1999) and some exported to several countries. It was, and still is, praised by everyone who drove or rode one and by almost every classic car enthusiast. During the 1980´s and all the way into the 2000´s it was the country´s signature taxi cab, specially the diesel versions. Almost every part was manufactured here and after production of the original model ceased in 1983, it was redesigned three times, always mantaining its original quality. I own an albatros grey 1987 GRD, the diesel variant of the first local redesign. It was the family car for almost 25 years and then i took it for me and began its restoration, which is still underway. It’s a proud example of Argentine industry and a reminder of our prosperous industrial past, which is sadly long gone thanks to incompetent politicians. Here is some info with pictures:
https://www.arcar.org/peugeot-504-grd-1985-84035
http://www.taringa.net/posts/autos-motos/19800310/Peugeot-504-con-motor-Diesel-Ligero.html
Francisco, mientras halla gente como usted que aprecia lo bueno de nuestra industria Argentina habrá una esperanza de salir adelante. Comparto la misma pasión por los Yeyos, tengo un 504 negro gasolero ex taxi, le reparé el motor a nuevo y le hice más de 500 mil kms, lo dejé descansar desde el 2019 por qué me compré al amor de mí vida, una 504 pick Up 1993 con muy pocos kms. Admiro profundamente a vehículos tan nobles, fieles y duraderos, nunca más se volvió a fabricar algo así.
Saludos y que tenga un 2022 lleno de éxitos.
Buenas Eduardo, sabia que algun otro argentino iba a ver este comentario jaja. Te felicito por tus autos y si, amo la industria nacional y me gusta mucho leer sobre su historia. Saludos y exitos para vos tambien
I missed an opportunity to post on this thread when it was new, but I’ll post now in the slim chance that somebody will read this and laugh. My wife recently posted on Facebook 2-part anecdote from her childhood that relate’s to her father’s beloved 504 in the 1970s. Her dad bought the car in France and had it shipped to Libya, where he was involved with an agricultural program through the U.N.
Part I: The Family Reunites
Nothing takes me back to the summer of 1976 faster than this song, now playing as I prepare tortellini in brodo for Eve. That summer, we miraculously managed to reunite with my Dad who met us in France, after a year of separation when the war broke out in Lebanon.
My parents bought a blue Peugeot 504, which I think we sailed to Libya, where we would live until December of 1980.
You can imagine that was a pivotal summer for a 9 year old kid, but with no electronic distractions, the music we listened to burned into my brain. I instantly conjure up the beauty of the Mediterranean Sea, the sounds of the streets of France, and merciless hours driving through desert staring out windows listening to Enrico Macias, Gilbert Becaud, Olivia Newton John, and the Carpenters, to name a few. My Dad would sing or hum, and he loved to go for drives… he still does! So if you listen, picture staring out of the left side of the back seat window at endless miles of sand and sea… or simply at nothing but desert…
Part II. Fond (and not-so-fond) Memories of the 504
While I didn’t go rooting through my old Libya pictures, I will share what I loved about the fact that we owned a Peugeot 504:
a) the darned thing never started in the morning, so we would get behind the car and run, pushing it down the hill while my Dad would jump in and get it to turn over
b) low likelihood of getting stolen
c) my cousin could sit low enough in the back seat, unnoticed as he devoured the loaves of French bread my mom had purchased, and a scene of utter hilarity would ensue
d) the goats in the streets LOVED to climb on the roof to nibble at the eucalyptus tree which would send my mother into a hysterical frenzy and we’d have to go chase them away…
By far d) was my favorite!
To which my mother-in-law replied…
That darned car hated humidity, and we lived right next to the sea. And your cousin eating all the bread was funny enough, but it wasn’t–when you figure in that we had had to drive all the way across town to get our ration of 6 loaves, only to arrive back home with only one! At that point we could only laugh at the bread-a-holic in the back seat!!
I’ve owned Pugs for over 30 years. I live in Australia which is overall hotter than America and with many more miles of dirt. ¹/17 of the population and similar size to the Lower 48 means much of the interior is dirt roads.
I’ve never had a Pug overheat on me l always checked the coolant and maintained all components. They are brilliant, dependable and robust cars. I sourced my parts which was always much cheaper than the national importer’s gouging, I mean, pricing policies.
I never had coolant cross-contamination with the oil. Steering, suspension and brakes were easy to maintain and repair. They handled dirt roads way better than Australian built cars which were only American derivatives anyway. They were supposedly built for Australian conditions but were inadequate.
I place only Porsche and Mercedes Benz above them. Unfortunately the Peugeot brand suffered bad decisions. I pinpoint the dropping of the wet-sleeve engine, in the early 90s, as the beginning of their decline. Since they have built sporty cars like the 80’s 205 GTi, 405 Mi16 and later 306 GTi6 and the 307 180 Sport but the build quality is wanting.
Confession is good for the soul.
I loved my 1979 504 as much as I love my 1980 Bustleback Seville.
It looks like someone would have sold a fiberglass butt lift trunk lid falsie for the 504, similar to the RR grille for the Beetle. For that matter, Peugeot could easily have redone it in the factory. Adding requiring less re-engineering than subtracting.
Brilliant car. Owned a ‘79 diesel sedan in the 80’s. Outstanding ride, best seats ever. Mine was stone-cold reliable. 40 mpg. Would start at -5 F (my Mercedes diesel wouldn’t start at 30F). I would have it still if the body didn’t dissolve and it would go in the snow.
I daily-drive a 504 station wagon with over 450,000 miles on it and it’s the best POS I’ve ever owned. And it’s air-conditioned!