(first posted 1/4/2013; revised 7/19/2016)
Putting the Peugeot 504 into proper perspective presents a particular challenge. It’s a vehicle with (at least) three distinct personalities or reputations. I could easily write up three different articles on it, but that might not go over so well here in America, where there are still folks trying to get over CPTS (Chronic Peugeot Fatigue Syndrome) or PTSD (Peugeot Traumatic Stress Disorder). That probably gives you a good clue as to how at least some Americans remember the 504. One thing is certain, it’s not easy to stereotype the 504, at least not from a global perspective..
In Europe, the arrival of the 504 was a fairly momentous occasion. Its predecessor, the 404, was a direct evolution of the line of Peugeots going back to the first post-war 203, and shared similar overall dimensions and configuration. It continued the Peugeot’s tradition of conservative construction techniques and robust build quality. But by the late sixties, the times they were a-changing, and the 404’s narrow, tall body and live rear axle were looking a bit dated.
The 504 represented the biggest departure from the 203-403-404 tradition, although it still incorporated the qualities Europeans had come to expect from a Peugeot, commonly referred to as “The French Mercedes”. But with the 504, that was much more relevant than in the past, as it was a fairly ambitious effort to compete more directly with the Mercedes middle-sized W114/115 range of sedans. It had a larger and significantly wider body, four wheel independent suspension, four wheel disc brakes, as well as larger and more powerful 1.8 L (and 2.0L after 1970) versions of Peugeot’s hemi-head slant four. As a matter of fact, the 504 would be Peugeot’s last new RWD platform ever, as the 604 and 505 were both direct evolutions of the 504. The 504 was destined to have a long life, and that it did (more on that later).
The 504 had an excellent reception in Europe, and was praised by the press for its advanced suspension and superb ride, (mostly) elegant design, excellent handling, comfortable interior and good performance. At a time when BMW’s Neue Klasse sedans were decidedly sportier than the Mercedes and Peugeot, and were more in competition with Alfas and such, the 504 was legitimately seen as the only real direct competition to the Mercedes, which had almost a hammer-hold on its niche in the market. The 504 was awarded the European COTY for 1969, beating out two other superb new cars, the BMW six-cylinder 2500/2800, and the Alfa Romeo 1750.
I vividly remember reading auto, motor und sport’s first test of the 504, and how impressed they were, despite their all-things-German-are-superior slant. Especially with the smooth and responsive 97 hp fuel-injected TI motor, the 504 had a unique combination of qualities and performance at a price that undercut the Mercedes by enough to make it very attractive.
Speaking of attractive (or not), the most startling thing about the 504 when it appeared was its very unusual tail. Like all Peugeots from the 403 until very recent times, the 504 was the work of Pininfarina.
The drooped tail had shown up on a few other Pininfarina cars, like the 1961 Cadillac Jacqueline, where the break is fairly minor in relation to that massive tail.
Pininfarina’s Austin 1800 from 1964 is a different variation of the theme, where almost the whole trunk is downward sloping. In the Peugeot 504, Pininfarina more or less split the difference.
It works better in certain colors, and from certain angles. It’s speculation, but perhaps it was the result of the unhappiness about there being so many Pininfarina sedans looking so similar to the finned 404, that they wanted to give Peugeot something truly unique, or decidedly French-quirky instead of Italian handsome. If so, they succeeded. It’s an acquired taste, and I’ve come to accept it for what it is. Other than that, the 504 was a nice-enough design for the era, with certainly a bit more rounded flair than the stark Mercedes boxes.
Pininfarina also designed (and built) the absolutely superb 504 Coupe and Cabrio, and one would never guess they sat on the same platform and were designed by the same firm. Their styling held up so well over time, and were built from 1969 all the way through 1983 (above), the last of that line of RWD Peugeot coupes and cabrios. These also were the French alternative to the Mercedes SL/SLC and the BMW coupe.
The fact Peugeot also offered a diesel engine (and had since 1961) further enhanced its Mercedes-ness. This was not a converted gas engine, but a very rugged designed-from-scratch unit (Indénor). In the pre-turbo era, it typically made 65 hp (later 70), about the same as the Mercedes of the time. And it was as popular as a taxi in Paris as the Mercedes was in Germany.
One area where Peugeot never quite matched Mercedes was in its interior quality. The seats were always superbly comfortable (these seats are from a later 505), to go along with the ride. But the trim, switch gear, and plastics were just never quite in the same league as Mercedes. But let’s consider the pricing difference too: in the US, a 1975 gas 504 stickered for $5610 ($23,500 adjusted), while the cheapest 1975 MBZ 230 went for a lofty $9172 (38,000 adjusted); a whopping 63% more. In Europe, the price difference wasn’t quite as large, but Peugeot could never command Mercedes prices.
The 504 was significantly roomier than the 404, especially in the back seat, which also distinguished it from the BMW Neue Klasse, not known for its commodious rear leg room.
The 504 was a solid hit for Peugeot in Europe, and certainly furthered the reputation of being a better-than-average quality car. What about Africa, where the 404 had already established a huge foothold on the mid-sized sedan market?
Pictures often speak better than words, so, let’s ponder a few from a place where the 504 developed a near hegemony as the vehicle of choice, until pushed out in more recent years by Toyotas and such.
The 504 was assembled in both Nigeria and Kenya, until 2005, no less. So even though it’s been pushed aside in new car sales, there will be 504s hard at work for decades, undoubtedly.
This is a wagon, which like all classic Peugeot RWD wagons was not just a sedan with a long roof, but a totally different chassis from the front door back, with longer wheelbase, heavy-duty live rear axle, and a superb four-coil rear suspension that gave both a fine ride unloaded, but could also take very heavy loads too. We’re going to stick to the sedan mostly here, having covered all the Peugeot RWD wagons here, as well as one of our writer’s personal take on the 504 diesel wagon here.
But we can’t ignore the 504 pickup, at least not totally. A replacement for the 404 pickup, these rugged beasts had a leaf-spring rear suspension, and seemingly unlimited carrying capacity.
And then there’s the famous Dangel 4×4 conversions, like this one posted at the CC Cohort a while back. You get the picture, eh? The 504 became Africa’s beast of burden, and everyone knew how to keep one going, no matter where it might have found itself, or God forbid , break down. But parts are almost everywhere, and every bush mechanic knows the ins and outs of a Peugeot.
There was even a double-cab 504 pickup, built in China, no less. Peugeot was a very early pioneer in China, establishing one of the first joint-ventures there, with Guangzhou, in 1985. That proved to not be a happy relationship, as the rules for engagement for Chinese JVs hadn’t really been established yet, and Peugeot was a very unhappy partner. By 1997, Peugeot called it quits; talk about bucking the trend in China.
I didn’t mean to bring a fourth continent into the 504 equation, so let’s talk about the 504 in America. In the fifties and sixties, the Peugeot 403 and 404 enjoyed a generally good reliability reputation here, despite the fact that the dealer network was decidedly thin. Even with them, it depended much on access to a knowledgeable mechanic (or owner). But its no secret that the 504 developed a much more inconsistent rep; even an evil one, in some folks’ eyes (stay tuned for at least one colorful comment by a former 504 owner). What happened?
Probably the convergence of at least several factors. Let’s start with the actual car. About the time the 504 appeared, two things changed that Peugeot and some other European manufacturers, most especially French and British ones, did not adapt to successfully. One was smog controls. And the other was America’s love of power accessories and assists.
The early emission controls generally had a deleterious effect on engine efficiency, performance, and increased operating temperatures (retarded ignition timing, etc.). Combined with Americans’ growing preference for automatics, power steering and air conditioning placed dramatically challenges in keeping engines and under-hood temperatures in line.
The little Peugeot four’s direct origins go back to 1290cc in the 203 from 1948 (above). They all had an iron block, with wet cylinder sleeves/liners, and an aluminum alloy hemi head. This construction type was used by Peugeot until the end of that long family of engines, for many decades, and it’s the same basic configuration as used by Citroen and Renault on many of their engines. It was proven over time, but generally in conditions without smog controls and power accessories.
Undoubtedly, these additional stresses made US-bound Peugeots more vulnerable to heat-related issues. Peugeot also pioneered the thermostatically-controlled radiator fan, via an electromagnetic clutch. It was prone to going out of adjustment, or folks didn’t know how to deal with it. Not such a big deal in the sixties, with a lightly-stressed engine; a different story in a heavier 504 burdened with accessories.
The result was all-too many overheating incidents, which commonly resulted in either a warped head, or worse. And there were issues with head and sleeve gaskets, etc… That was just with the engine.
The seventies were the most challenging decade ever for automobiles, in terms of new demands and changes. The US manufacturers had a hard enough time dealing with them, and their reliability reputation dropped substantially. The Germans and Swedes, who were always 100% committed to the US market, made much more concerted efforts to adapt to the rapid changes. They were pioneers with introducing fuel injection in the US, etc.. But the French just never made it a priority, and all of the ancillary aspects of their cars, especially as adapted for the US market, really took a back seat.
The basic mechanical components of the 504 were presumably as robust as ever, but all the Micky-Mouse electrics/electronics required, and wiring and switches, and sensors, and everything else that increasingly constituted a modern car were their undoing. And once the Japanese cars got into gear in the late seventies and eighties, the game really changed. Needless to say, the Japanese were also 100% committed to the US market, and rapidly did what was necessary to soon rise to the top of the reliability rankings.
Against growing expectations (and their own increasing frailties), the French dropped in their reliability reputation, precipitously so. And a boomlet in Peugeot 504 sales during the diesel boom (1975-1981) only added to the potential problems, as folks were buying Peugeots who just didn’t know what they were getting into, sold to them by new dealers who likewise didn’t know what they were getting into. A recipe for…an eventual exit from the US market.
Meanwhile, there are still very happy 504 drivers in the US, as one commenter with 450k on his daily driver 504 commented just the other day. These are owners who have figured out the weaknesses that hobbled many 504s, and fixed them, or worked around them. In the hands of a knowledgeable owner/mechanic, the 504 and 505 are capable of giving excellent service. But that certainly doesn’t represent the face of the typical US buyer.
A close friend of ours bought a used 504 just like this one in 1978 or so, based on my 404 enthusiasm. It was a gas model, with the stick, and a very enjoyable drive. The de-smogged US versions certainly lost their edge, and it felt almost slower than my 404, but it exuded that Peugeot confidence of being able to clear tall buildings in a single leap, thanks to its superb suspension, which was even more sophisticated than my 404’s. She had a mostly good experience with it, but then she drove in the cool climate of the Bay Area. And eventually it went the way of so many Peugeots: traded in on a Volvo, a 760 turbo, in her case.
Peugeot 504 experiences tend to be very polarized; so be it. But anyone who’s ever had one or driven one will attest to its unique ride and other qualities that were mostly un-equaled by any other car in the US in its price range. But that’s all quickly overshadowed by the next breakdown or big repair bill. The world was changing, especially in the US, and Peugeot simply didn’t make a genuine effort to keep up. And the outcome to that was very predictable.
Fortunately, just the sedan had this unfortunate hind end. The wagon (obviously), cabrio and, I think, the coupe were not so afflicted.
A friend of mine in Germany, her brother owned a series of 504 cabrios back in the 80s and 90s. Beautiful little cars the lot.
I worked in Nigeria from 1980 to 1984. I had a 504 wagon for a while, until a taxi forced us off the road and it got totaled. Then I got an almost new 504 sedan. This was a great car, very reliable and comfortable. I would love to have one of those now.
Fancy that. I lived in Nigeria as a kid from 77 till 90, and you’re right.
They were assembled in the PAN plant in Kaduna.
Wow, I’m not sure what is the more impressive sight of a bygone era: The 504, or the 3.5″ computer disk holder on the back seat!
Kind of like CCs…used to be everywhere back in the day, and not seen so often now.
I assure this picture was taken very recently. A lover of old machinery, I guess.
The only inspiration I can see for the 504 sedan’s rear is the Austin “Landcrab.”
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/cars/bmc-cars/18002200/
It’s too bad that Pininfarina/Peugeot decided to “split the differerence” on that rear end. The Austin appears trim, efficient and more modern, in the way it looks “hatchbackish” while on the GM show car the tapering tail adds to its sleekness by reducing bulk. The 504’s rear looks clumsy, though it may have inspired the designer of the Infiniti J30, the one whose back end looks like a BUTT.
The unique tail on these always sort of ruined the look to me. However, I am slowly coming around to the little Pug. I think that one of these and I could get along.
The taxi company in Fort Wayne, Indiana bought a big batch of these (diesels) in the mid 70s to replace a fleet of aging Checkers. This was my first widespread exposure to these cars. They did not stay around long, I recall reading that the cab company experienced terrible repair and maintenance costs. Based on your explanation, I could see that long hours of city driving (and idling) with the a/c on would not put this car in its “happy place.” Also, parts costs in the U.S. were also probably very high due to the small number of cars in service.
I look forward to reading the comments of those who have lived with these.
The Company I worked for in the late ’70’s used a car service that purchased a small fleet of 504s. They arrived in the winter so I have no idea if the cars had air conditioning. But from the back seat they were comfortable and always delivered me where I was going.
One thing I did notice was that they all had manual transmissions. This being NYC I could not believe this bode well. In a manner of three weeks, as I remember the 504s had all disappeared. I can only guess they are sitting on the bottom of the Hudson river on the west side. And maybe the fleet manager still reposing in one of strangely styled trunks.
All I am sure of is none of the drivers would ever talk about Peugeots ever again.
Plus no 2 hour break mid-day for wine and cheese.
Is this a Peugeot deadly sin article? Without the grand standing and biased hatred of course 🙂
A friend’s mother had a 505 wagon when I was in grade school. I remember mentally comparing it to my father’s 85 Lebaron GTS at the time…I remember the french ride being loud, slow and really rolly poly feeling going down the road.
I believe she switched to Camrys in the late 90’s and hasn’t gone back to the more excentric options (not that many are left) since.
Yes!
I’ve been driving 505s here in Australia for 26 years. Best, most reliable and comfortable cars ever, if maintained properly– which is not difficult.
I have a ’79 Diesel automatique napping in my garage right now (pic), and I drive it on weekends. It’s my 2nd 504, at least the 5th in my family since the late sixties. I appreciate very much your take on the reasons why such cars are iconic in Africa and kind of loathed here in the US. Of course it’s grossly underpowered and slow. But mileage stays impressive (high 30s, low 40s), the build quality is stellar (spot on, though, on the crumbling interior) and even though my car is a bit rough around the edges, I often get thumbs ups at traffic stops. Only 2 percent of the 504 production were US models, so that’s a fairly rare car for French connoisseurs!
And those seats look like 505’s to me.
Fantastic article Paul! You summed it up very nicely indeed. A 504 was my first car at age 17 (1988) and I’ve owned one ever since, and absolutely love it. I’m quite a performance enthusiast, and RWD Peugeot’s have alway’s been the car I really enjoy most. I still DD my 1989 505 Turbo 5-sp… 🙂
http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2474-january-1st-rallycross-best-one-yet/#entry18275
A friend in college often drove his parents’ 504. One summer, my sister and I planned to drive from California to Washington DC in her Cortina. We got about 200 miles before 4th gear went, another 2 miles before 3rd gear was gone and ended up crawling along the shoulder of Interstate 80 in 1st to the nearest pay phone. I called my friend, and he drove up that evening with a junkyard trans and his dogs, in the Peugeot. The Cortina transmission saga is for another CC, perhaps, but my lasting memory of the 504 was the headlight switch on a steering column stalk. Not a rotating knob on the end of the stalk, but a stalk you moved up and down, or maybe in and out. The dogs, milling around in the car while we worked on the Cortina, bumped into the stalk and turned on the lights and drained the battery. We had to push the Peugeot to a gas station to get a jump …. we couldn’t get it bump-started. BTW, this was a late ’60’s 504 with a 4 speed, and my dim memory is that it had a column shift.
No jump from the Cortina?
As Paul noticed from my past intense comments whenever Peugeot came up, he was kind enough to ask me about my 504 experiences in anticipation of today’s CC. I’m the colorful commenter cited above, so please buckle up and hear my story of an American in Parisian wheels:
I owned two 504s, both gas, because my now-blessedly-ex-wife was a neurotic hypochondriac with a genuinely bad back. She demanded the most supportive seats and the smoothest possible ride, or else her “neck would go out”. (New Years’ DAY Lily and I celebrated the 18th anniversary of our meeting, and our blissfully happy life together, thank the goddess!) Those seats and that ride are Peugeot’s great qualities. And on a two lane country road when everything was working right it was a joy to drive.
My first 504 was off a used car lot in Ithaca. I think it was about a ’72, bought in ’79. Looked nice, turned out to be half bondo. Dumb purchase. I got to know the local mechanic pretty quickly. One day I’m driving one of those country roads at a nice clip, and got the distinct feeling that the front of the car and the rest of it were taking different lines through the corner. The front sub frame members were so rusted out you could put your thumb through the holes. Sold it for $100. Ithaca is where they mine the salt.
Then after test driving Oldsmobiles and the Renault, we bought a two year old ’78 from the dealer. It had been a salesman’s lease car and had abut 40K. Like new with all the trimmings, felt like the ultimate car, very proud of it. Test drove a diesel and it was so slow merging onto the uphill expressway there it felt scary. No oil burners for me.
Later that year we set off on a trip to Vancouver. She had friends there and Regina. Halfway across Ontario the engine started running increasingly badly. The shop in Thunder Bay said it needed a valve job. At 45K! Gave up on driving, she was 6 months pregnant. Yes we were idiots. Flew the rest of the way. Ended up loving the PNW and moved to Seattle. Shipped the car across Canada by rail, and they bent up the front end badly, not driveable over 25.
In Seattle I tried replacing the brake pads myself. I’d done all my own work before this car, at least I could do the brakes I thought. Emergency brake operates on the rear calipers and I had a hell of a time getting them opened up for the new pads. I did have a Haynes book. Very unpleasant experience.
A year later, in Portland now, at about 55K, I’ve got water in the oil. Took it into the dealer (Rasmussen), and they tell me the car had been overheated. Never by me, it was that salesman. The damned engine has wet sleeves with cardboard gaskets at the bottom! They had to tear down the whole engine to replace the damned gaskets. Unbellievably expensive, which I could ill afford. Cardboard gaskets! Wet sleeves! For what?
A year after that, the ZF automatic blew up. The car was down for a whole damned month while they waited for a new one from Paris. Bloody expensive.
Power steering leaks, bloody expensive.
Finally the fan starts cutting out and threatening to overheat, which I never let it do. Turns out the fan has an electric clutch with a brush on an exposed surface of the pulley. Exposed! And directly under the water pump for chrissake! And of course it fails with the fan disengaged. Who thought that was a good idea? In an engine with wet sleeves that destroys itself with the slowest overheating! Remember this was in a time when Detroit iron could tolerate such things. Never did get the clutch 100% right, sweated the temp gauge on every hill.
Finally the Sable came out, it got the horrible ex wife’s approval, and we traded the damned thing.
Evidently this car was like other French cars in that it expected to be closely and thoroughly and frequently maintained, and it didn’t get it in its first two years. I wonder if that damned fan clutch failed and it overheated.
Thus my Peugeot trail of tears. Every car has a story, some sweet, some bitter.
In spite of that I remain a lifelong Francophile. It’s possible, even likely, that if the car I bought hadn’t been damaged by a former owner in undetectable ways, I’d have adored my 504. Vive la France!
Your avatar is Reddy Kilowatt ?
You bet. I’m an EE and electric car enthusiast, having co-created and co-taught an electric vehicle engineering course sequence in the Portland State Univ. EE dept. I’m in the detailed planning phase of a project to convert my ’92 Miata to Lithium/AC motor drive.
EV Album lists a number of 1-series Peugeots that have been converted, and a 504 cabriolet being restored in anticipation of EV conversion. Marvelous idea. Get rid of that problematic drive train and power accessories, keep the superior body construction, seats and suspension, and Pininfarina styling, and they’ll have one of the best EVs on the planet.
I don’t think cars have anything to do with the country they came from. Each car company have a personality. I am an old senior and know about cars. The British cars were not successful in this country. The Beetle was successful, because it was a noisy toy.It had clever advertising and it appealed to the younger generation. French cars were ahead in engineering, but most mechanics did not know how to fix them. French cars relied more on comfort and better ride than speed. They had a tax on engines size. Smog testing killed off most foreign cars. The Beetle had to switch to a Super Beetle to acommodate the extra emission devices and later to the Rabbit. Japanese cars when first in this country sold well because they were cheap, but were really junks. Rusted like crazy. But Toyota got smart and did what the Germans did. Started their own dealership, instead of sold through independent garages. Nobody ever duplicated Citroen for it engineering of the suspension system. Peugeot did a great job with coil springs that was more reliable.
Car companies are not building cars to go out of business
Look at GM. Ford and Chrysler, they all have built cars at one time that were bad like lemons. But are still regarded as great car companies. So its hard to punish the French, English and others for making bad cars.
It has to do with the company and not the nationality.
Your point on engine size (tax HP) is sound, for that political limitation inhibited French makes from investing in larger engines that could’ve absorbed all the smog controls & extras req’d by Those Crazy Americans. The PRV V6 was as good as it got (and that req’d industrial collaboration).
But I do believe that from the beginning there was a general French indifference to making necessary adaptations to the American car market (Renault’s initial attempts were comically negligent), which is ironic in light of how adaptable the French were during the colonial period. They simply weren’t hungry enough, which is a shame for I think French cars had strengths which should’ve endeared them well to Americans. I resent their giving up on us!
The British succeeded so long as buyers could be sold on their cars’ “Englishness,” which works well with enthusiasts but not “appliance” buyers.
I have a lot of experience with these cars from my shady used car days. Paul’s analysis is as usual bang on: the basic car was excellent but it was not adequately adapted to both our diving conditions and North American owners.
A Pug is a fine car for tooling around southern Vancouver Island or driving in Vancouver. However, they did not do well in mountains on hot days. Whenever I sold one, I would give this speech and also the need for the car to come back every three months to keep abreast of things. This was mostly to keep an eye on the fan clutch.
Here is what I learned about Pugs:
1) When selling one, sell only to a Pugophile. He will know the intricacies of Pugs and be well enough informed to put the pedal to the metal on long hills on hot days.
2) Do not, I repeat, do not, sell a Pug, especially a diesel, to a woman. Doing so will lead to a smoldering pile of Pug being towed to your shop the first hot spell.
3) A 504 feels like one of the most solid cars every built. The bodies were built like tanks. The ride was amazingly smooth and the seats wonderful. These cars waft down the road.
You nailed it.
During the diesel boom, lots of Yuppie women (and men) in LA bought 504 diesels, because they were cheaper than a Mercedes 240D. They had no clue what they were really getting into. Fashion and fads are an amazing thing. But it meant there were lots of 504s to be had for next to nothing after a few years. And if you knew what you were doing…well, some are still driving them.
Hmm, are we giving this car a pass because people didn’t know how to take care of it so it is their fault? Or are we giving the car a pass because we like it?
The sexist comment was funny at least.
Nope, not giving Pugs a pass at all. By the mid-1970’s their reliability in our market was shot. I would never drive one unless it were free and in fact, I had several free ones over the years due to desperate owners throwing up their hands.
Yes, the comment was sexist but being married to an Asian, I have come to understand the truth of yin-yang. I see things my wife does not see, like making sure cooling fan clutches engage or keeping an eye on temperature gauges.
On the other hand, my wife sees many things I do not see. I find this a very complimentary relationship. Is this sexist? Well, the femanism I was indoctrianted with in university would say yes, but at my age I have pretty much abandoned dogma to make my own opinions about things.
Finally, for every woman I have ever known, a car was a transportation device. It is not an object of lust symbol of freedom. It is a drive to Costco. A sales course I once took claimed 80% of buying decisions are made by women. That’s the reason we have the Toyota Corolla. Reliable as a rock, easy to use and cheap.
When I met my wife Lily, she was driving a nice old Mercedes sedan. After an accident the next week she drove a red Alfa Romeo GTV6 for a couple of years, commuting daily. Then another old Mercedes, finally a Subaru wagon for chainless day trips to ski Mt. Hood. Now that she’s signed with a publisher for her new mystery novel, she’s looking forward to celebrating with a Mini Cooper.
Hates automatics, demands the stick because it gives her better control. Not technical, never lifted a wrench, Lily just has an eye for style and likes to drive.
I’m a very, very lucky guy.
I presume you realise that the current MINI Cooper doesn’t enjoy the greatest reputation for build quality and reliability….
Oh yes, thanks, we know. It’s a BMW built in England, what could go wrong? One does get lulled into complacency after a decade of Japanese near-perfection. There are quite a few Minis of all ages running around here, far more than any Peugeot ever seen. Eyes open, fingers crossed.
>>Finally, for every woman I have ever known, a car was a transportation device. It is not an object of lust symbol of freedom. It is a drive to Costco.<<
This is a thoroughly sexist statement that is also largely true. 😉
My wife is able to understand issues of great complexity, but just isn't interested in anything under the hood. She's on her second MINI, because she thinks they're cute and she looks good in them, which she does. She will trade it before reliability becomes a major issue (the last car, she had for 5 years and put 22,000 miles on it).
Meanwhile, I have a now 10-year-old Subie, with which I have a deep and fulfilling relationship.
I love the idea of the 504, just wouldn't want to own one. Unless it could be improved upon, perhaps? VW TDI under the hood, maybe?
Yup, my wife loves her (paid for) Taurus, which I detest but it works perfectly for her.
Ahhhhh, those front seats!
I greatly improved the ride quality in my ’92 Mitsubishi pickup truck by swapping the vinyl bench seat for some junk yard 504 cloth covered seats. Unbelievable, how much better that cheap truck rode, post swap!
I did the same for 3 other Japanese trucks owned by friends; who were also astounded at the difference.
The coupe really was a beauty! It’s a pity that right now french makes left their soft ride-plush seats philosophy for the ubiquitous german-like stiffness, they were soo comfortable, but I guess they do their market researches…
504 diesels are very popular here in north africa later models that came with dry sleeve engines(i think 1976&newer)are capable of lasting 600 to 800k kms with just normal maintenance even some renault motors can last that long too.but when it comes to usa i think bkz of all those emission parts that goes on cars,they can decrease the life of the motor&in my opinion french car makers just were not capable of designning a proper emission system for their american ordered automobiles as most french cars outside of usa had lasted alot longer than their sisters in usa.but never the less french cars are among the most popular cars every where(but usa)&the ones built after 2000 are alot more reliable than the ones built in two decades before that,no to mention that renault working with nissan&peugeot with mitsubishi.
PDX,
Surely you will be nominated for sainthood, for it is a miracle that you have survived both a neurotic hypochondriac ex-wife and a Pug that bled you dry.
Bless you! I’ve been amply rewarded in this life since, thanks to leaving both behind and finding my true sweetie.
+1. We learn, and we move on as needed….
I would go with the “French Mercedes” analogy, except that 50s/60s Mercs were the motors that style forgot Vertical strip-speedos and white plastic steering wheels made me feel that Mercs of thjat era were pretty naff – aside from the 300SL.
The Chinese are still making PSA parts I got new front brake rotors and pads out of China for my 98 Citroen recently. Definitely the PUG for CCCOTY there is no competition the german heap was only good in the magazines ans was never a good car anyway far too brittle in daily service and far too expensive to repair when, not if it broke down.
Spent many hours driving my step mother’s Pug 504 wagon. My then girlfriend and I took it on a road trip from Seattle to Lake Pend Oreille, Idaho. It handled so well on the logging roads. It was a 4 speed and was a joy to drive, though it was not quick. Loved the smooth ride. The back seat was nice too.
I’ve always thougt that the 504 was an elegant vehicle, on its own and esp in comparison to the types of bloated vehicles the big three were putting out in the early 70’s (“72 Monte Carlo as an example). The 504 in the German ad in the article with the chrome bumpers captures this elegance much better than the clapped out model Paul found in Oregon. Even today the 504 with its bucket seats, console, round gauges and functional space usage looks and feels quite modern, much closer to cars of today than those of even the 60s.
But yes, the 504 needs care. The diesel 504 I owned in the midwest in my 20s checked the “all of the above” box in terms of problems- failed clutch throw out bearing, loss of second gear, tinworm, and ultimately blown head gasket. But that car was stately and cool and if I had any mechanical skills (and a garage) at the the time it could have been saved. I loved that car, but I also hated that car, and given my limited finances, I was not sad to see it towed off in the first wave of dead 504s in the early 80s.
But I never forgot that little car and in my 50s bought another (’73 gas, auto). And although it has problems, I accept its limitations just like I accept my own. So yes i have replaced the starter, carburetor, radiator, master cylinder, and the entire interior. But this car in its simplicity (no emissions controls, no AC, no power windows) is super-easy to work on and the network of enthusiasts on line (several of whom have left comments here) is strong and very helpful. It’s far from perect, but I really love my 504
Just a few additional comments:
1. I like the rear end, name me another car with a side profile this distinct
2. Yes this car can overheat and ruin the engine, esp if the electromagnetic fan is not working. Get real, it’s an early 70s car that uses a 4lb radiator cap! You gotta stay on top of such things (and living in No Cal or the pacific northwest doesnt hurt either).
many 504s here in iran are running on 20r or 22r(toyota) or L20 nissan engines&still on the road besides at some point the drive train of 504 was used on local car name PAYKAN.here a picture of my dads 504 (1977)that recentley died(aug2011)&was replaced by freshly rebuilt 22r.i am sure this time is gonna last even longer.
Interesting about Iran. My first experience with a Peugeot was also in Iran- my dad had a 504 in a pretty aqua blue. He loved it too. Then I bought a 73 504 and drove it for years including a trip to Nova scotia and back to colorado. It ran great. Then an uncle bought it and he turned it into a camper with curtains in the back. Funky indeed! I now drive, when it’s running, a 404 sedan. I too love these old peugeots. Great article and comments
These enjoyed a good reputation here in Oz, and Pugs sell well here as an alternative to more upmarket Japanese cars,but….The quality of the electronics is not what it could be and there are these WTF type problems that turn up on them sometimes (cracked flywheel anyone?). In the 80s they ended up way too expensive and just not good enough against the competition and may even have left our market for a couple of years. I would have another one, but I would always have that nagging feeling something was going to go horribly (and expensively) wrong!
These were popular with some country people here in oz. The reliability of the previous twenty odd years made for pretty strong brand loyalty. Seemed to limp into the 505 era.
I had a white 74 diesel sedan and it was the only car I’ve ever owned that I truly loved. It was rusty, slow, and noisy. These things had a magic carpet ride. Almost every person who rode with me commented on the seats and ride. The soft extremely long travel suspension allowed nautical levels of body roll, but they were well damped so it was nothing like an American land yacht.
I was going to college in Charleston, SC at the time(early 90’s) and there were several of these clattering around town. Charleston culturally and ethnically has almost nothing in common with the rest of SC and there were/are enough non-rednecks to actually buy and maintain cars like these or even more exotic. At the time I knew a man who’s daily driver was a Citroen DS and a another who drove a 2CV.
The thing about love is that betrayal can drive a man to be mean. In addition to not being able to cope with Charleston’s heat, I was betrayed by one too many electrical problems and left bumming rides while trying to figure out why the glow plugs quit working. A man knocked on my door one day and commented that the car had not moved in some time and would I like to sell it. I sold my love to another man with as mean spirited joy as I’ve ever known. She was replaced with an 85 Honda Civic that stirred no love at all.
The 504 is yet another ’70s saloon Id like to own. As a teenager in the mid ’80s I regularly travelled in an estate- yes the ride was impressive and the seats very comfortable, also vision in the low waisted, slim pillared Pug was great and the rear seats were higher than the front so you got an even better view.
Here in England very few saloons come up for sale, although the convertibles and esp the coupes turn up regularly. I guess the saloons were discarded as they were decidedly ordinary cars back then- although that is what attracts me to them now.
The coupes dont make a lot, even those with the PRV V6 which was used in big brother, the rather gawky 604- somehow not as elegant as the 504.
A fact regarding the 504 was that production didnt really start until ’69- the Paris riots slowed work down- how charmingly French!
After a 404 Injection sedan bought new in 1966, my late Father had two 504s: the first was a 1972 US model bought in November 1971 in France from the factory for $2500 and imported to Canada in summer 1972. We lived in Calgary for 4 years with this car and it was reliable other than the carb tuning….especially in Europe the Nefkens dealer in the Netherlands had never seen emissions control equipment before….nor had they seen anti-intrusion beams in a 504 door before.
He traded it in for a 1977 504 sedan in North Vancouver, bought at Classic and Thoroghbred Motors on Marine Drive (now a mattress shop, which probably has better car service than the dealer did) . The ZF gearbox on the 1972 car blew two weeks after the next owner got it (LOL). The 1977 was a massively heavier car, rode beautifully but was really slow even with its 4 speed manual. I learned to drive manual on that car. It had the trapezoidal headlights on it, looked great, other than the stupid bumpers. It got dismal fuel economy.
My Dad didn’t like that car too much, he sold it in 1979 and bought a new Renault 5 with the proceeds. He was never tempted again to get a Peugeot; the 505 was not to his liking (or mine), the 604 was a dog on all levels.
Actually it was all downhill after he sold the 404 Injection, it was a fabulous car, which was nearly as comfortable as the 504s but was far faster both in acceleration and in top speed. The only reason he sold it is that after 6 years in Montreal and the acid rain capital of the Netherlands, the body had about 3 years of life left in it when he sold it. That was the best Peugeot, according to him.
I’ve had a 404 since the start of 1981 and still have a 404 Coupe Injection.
That example in Oregon has 505 seats *yuk* and is a butt-ugly example, however it is probably representative of the 504s remaining on the road in North America, sadly.
I stumbled into my first 504 (wagon) 30 years ago. It was part of a divorce settlement and wouldn’t pass PA inspection due to minor tailgate rust perforation. So I walked into a 59,000 mile car for something like $600.
It was a ’76 xn1 gas 4 sp wagon. That car was a revelation to me. How they designed a car that is bigger on the inside than the outside, I don’t know. It rode better than our “heavy Chevy” (’72 Caprice) and seemed to hold the road as well as the VW Rabbit (’75 flamethrower; don’t get me started on that one). The seats moved fore and aft on an arc that slightly tilted the seat forward and raised it moved forward. You didn’t need any 6 way adjustable power seats (uncomfortable in every position!). Every position of that seat was comfortable for every driver in the household. The back seat was elevated so that no one felt like luggage back there. And speaking of luggage, that wagon held the most unlikely amount of cargo imaginable without bottoming out. I was impressed by how tight it was on washboard roads around my part of NE Ohio. Certainly every domestic car I encountered would display that “cowl shudder” so common at that time. The 504 was solid and held the road. The power rack and pinion steering should be experienced by every automotive designer today. It had, to me, the perfect balance of road feel and boost. Absolutely perfect (leak prone pinion valves notwithstanding). And the weight distribution was nearly 50-50 varying with engine and transmission options and whether it was a sedan or wagon. I loved the way that car would track straight on terrible roads and road conditions. In deep snow, I’d corner with enough power to swing the rear end out and take my hands off the wheel and the steering geometry in the deep snow would begin to turn the steering wheel in the correct counter-steer direction. I love stuff like that and the Peug did it.
Frankly, it was a very good car. The first thing though, was to get it out of your head to trust the local dealer. The parts prices were confiscatory, the service inept and parts scarce. But we had a former Peugeot mechanic in the neighborhood who turned me on to the minor quirks of the car, what to attend to, and where to get parts at reasonable prices. We had a saint of a Peugeot parts guy to knew (and still does) his stuff. If I had to rely on a dealer, I would have sold it in a year. It was smooth sailing thereafter.
Another thing about having a car like that, is that they eventually start to find you, rather than the other way around. So I had 4 504’s over the years. Two diesel wagons and a ’74 Diesel sedan.
I, too, loved that Diesel sedan. It was the quintessential Peugeot. Great seats, manual everything (including manual sunroof), rubber floor mats. Yet it had 4 wheel independent suspension and 4 wheel disk brakes, and the sleeved XD90 Indenor slant 4 (from the late 50’s). The money was put where it counted, in the suspension and running gear. Unlike others here, I was smitten with that sloped tail, right off the bat. Too bad it was badly rusted when I got it and didn’t get any better over the 2 years I ran it. Ran like a champ all the way to the scrapyard. I nearly cried.
The diesel wagons often did their best impressions of “camels of the freeway.” Part of that picture is also, “not quickly.” I know well of being able to use the temperature gage as a speedometer. On the highway, I just moved along with the trucks– slow down up the hills, and let it speed up on the way down. That’s just how you had to drive it. Oh. And NEVER sacrifice one ounce of forward momentum! Anyway, that’s how it was and I liked it.
I comes down to this regarding Peugeot 504’s, 505’s, and the 604. 1) the Turbodiesels really were better than the non turbo versions by far (so the 504 didn’t share in this). 2) the car was destroyed in the US market primarily due to a lousy dealer network, even fewer trained and experienced Peugeot mechanics, and over priced parts. 3) these Peugeots were very well engineered overall (especially in the suspension department)– but indifferently assembled, meaning a new one could be a crap shoot. You could go insane with niggling problems, or you could pile on tons of trouble free miles (witness the large number of high mileage examples that exist).
Which gets me to my General Theory of High Mileage Peugeots. Beware the low mileage Peugeot with all the repair receipts. The best used Peugeots I ever owned, though admittedly toward the end of their useful lives, were the highest mileage examples to be found. It they stuck around long enough to rack up 200K+ miles, you know that it was a good one, properly built-broken in- and well enough cared for. I’ve had 3 of the 504/604 family like that. 330K on the ’78 504D wagon, 225K on the 604 V6, 559K on the 604TD. They were rough and reliable!
And the other points made above about clutch fans, certain kinds of owners, etc? All true. And everyone forgot about the windshield leaks and wishful thinking heating system. And starting a xd2 non-turbodiesel in the bitter cold. Oh, it always started better than you would think. It’s just that the initial cloud of smoke showed up on Doppler Radar. And speedometer cables. Why couldn’t they use a speedo cable that lasted more than 60K miles? Well, those were some of the issues I had.
But you know what? I totally had fun driving them, they never bored me, they always got me where I was going, and, dammit- they had a soul. Either you get that or you don’t.
“The first thing though, was to get it out of your head to trust the local dealer.” Man ain’t that the truth. Why I didn’t look for a good mechanic I’ll never understand. I still would have suffered the engine, transmission and power steering failures, but the repairs would have been cheaper. And I’d have learned about the fan clutch override.
I totally got that my 504 had a soul. Like I said when everything was right it was a joy. But some souls are higher maintenance than others.
Wow what a great Pug story from an obvious Pugophile!I agree that in a Pug, the development money went where it counted, a stiff as a bridge body, superb and stout four wheel independent suspension and four wheel disk brakes. This in like 1968. Like the above poster states, if you can get a base 504 with zero power toys and manual transmission, it is actually a great daily driver. I had one, a diesel four speed, total stripper, as my driver for a few weeks. This one had a fantastic dash, all chrome and bling. What was great about it was its obvious immense strength: you could just burn down rough roads that would have a live axle B-Body bouncing all over the place. You could then come to a rapid halt due to the four wheel disks. Further, there was no dive to speak of when you did it. Doors closed with a thunk.
And yes, Pugs have issues, some more niggly that others but they are no worse than a Mercedes of the era and were certainly a lot less money. When I was in university, circa 1989, I got a 505 gas automatic for my girlfriend for $3000. It was a total stripper, not even a/c or cruise, absolutely no power gizmos. Built to Canadian smog specs it ran just great. We had it two years and there were no real issues, except one night the fan belt broke. This leads to a major Pug Problem: where do you get it towed. You see, on a Pug, replacing the fan belt requires taking out the radiator and much of the front end. It is two hours of labour. A yahoo in Spuzzum ain’t gonna know how to wrench on your Pug, nor would you want him to. So I got it towed to its regular service place, a cool $100 at the time. The belt replacement was done at my garage so I paid the mechanic cash after he finished work so that cost me $50 plus the belt. Lucky to know people.
It was a nice car but not one I wanted to tempt fate on so I got rid of it in two years. It was still on the road several years later. While the 505 was a nice car, the 504 always felt more solid and sporty.
More examples of Pininfarina’s favourite ‘broken’ bootline: as well as the 1800 BMC ‘Landcrabs’ take a look at the 1961 Cadillac Jacqueline brougham from the Paris Auto Show. I guess they had to go somewhere after their pointy fins phase. (Picture didn’t load properly; see next post).
Maybe the Rolls Royce’s butt was the inspiration.
1963 RR Phantom
PF Caddy >>>
We originally bought new a 76 1/2 Peugeot 504 from a dealer in Queens NY. The reason why I say 76 1/2 as this year had parts from earlier and later 504’s and was strange that way. My father rented a 504 on a Euro vacation and fell in love with the car. I had a friend who had one in high school and originally put the idea in is head to move to buy European cars from Chrysler’s and Dodge’s. I always loved the look of the 504 especially the rear end. If you look at an 90’s Infiniti J30 it is very similar in the rear of that car. This Peugeot lasted until 1985 and my dad bought a brand new 505 STI. Yes the 504 was slow but charming same was true with the 505.
Currently, I own a 79 Peugeot 504 Gas that I found in 1986 and purchased from its original owners. Although I only drive it 5 months out the year it has been somewhat reliable. It now has 160K on the car and has never overheated. Mine has working a/c and other options. This past year the original starter went and I have repaired the body a few times. I do enjoy driving it and have been stock piling parts from ebay for years.
Just wished how many of these cars are on the road these days.
Long may they run.
Very nice 504 you have there. Enjoy!
Yours looks identical to the ’78 I had, same color. Beautiful car! I’m glad you’re having good luck with it.
Nice catch on the mid 90s Infinity J30, never thought of that before but its rear end is definitely related to that of the 504. Funny also about the 1976 1/2 504. My 504 is a ’74 but has chrome ’73 bumpers with springs added, presumably to meet 5mph requirements – i think the Peugeot guys were not afraid to change on the fly. And i agree, you have a very nice 504GL, esp for a midwestern car, something for all of us 504 owners to aspire to.
I’d guess that the chopped butt helped rear visibility. You wouldn’t need a rear view camera on this beauty! But it looks like it might create unwanted lift, if you ever got it going fast enough.
I came across a rusty 504 pickup with French plates in my neighborhood last summer (recently posted to the Cohort). My best guess is that it was bound for Africa via of the many car-export lots in the area. Not many of these left in Europe…
Guess who else loves the 504? President Ahmadinejad of Iran auctioned off his white 1977 two years ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8355823/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejads-Peugeot-car-sold-for-1.5-million.html
An excellent review and analysis of the 504, as well as one of the best insights I have ever read into the conundrum that Peugeot, Renault and Citroen found themselves in as their products increasingly became less relevant to US consumers and the changing US auto sector in the last quarter of the 20th century. Had they known that the rest of the world would likely trace and follow the US lead then perhaps they might have approached the challenges they faced in the US with a little more commitment instead of throwing in the towel as all three did by 1992.
We French seem to many times support product brilliance with girders that are unable to support it. In France, a challenge from abroad isn’t seen as an opportunity but rather an impertinent and inexcusable incursion into private affairs and is most always met with a “take it or leave it…” response. In the US auto sector, with a myriad of capable alternatives to choose, most Americans simply chose to “leave it”, with an all-too-predictable result.
Even today, Peugeot and Citroen in particular, could choose to make a comeback in the US. They haven’t and throw up a laundry list of excuses that today are revealed for what they are, excuses. Just look at FIAT. Surely this brand had an even worse reputation in the US for unreliability and one could certainly also say that both Hyundai and KIA also had very deep credibility holes from which to crawl out. They all did crawl out to varying degrees of success, but succeed they all did. They are succeeding in the US market today because they all have followed three essential rules for success:
1. Build a US-relevant quality product with some form of USP
2. Develop a dealer network with national reach and a decent parts supply to support it.
3. Hire Americans to market and advertise the brand at levels equal to or greater than the competition.
Even VW, who very nearly threw in the towel a few years back, doubled-down, reformulated what’s on offer in the US, said to itself: “if I can’t beat them, I must join them…” and now enjoys spectacular success with the new Passat and Jetta.
Bucking this trend are the French auto makers. The French have to this day failed to see that following the lead of FIAT would pay off for them in the long run (even after PSA sat down and crafted a deal with GM). This is all too mind-bogglingly stupid as far as I’m concerned when they have nothing to loose at this point.
Or, is it perhaps that the “long run” is entirely too long to wait?
Thanks for your comment, Ken. It’s good to read a Frenchman’s perspective on this subject.
I have been an automotive francophile in my youth. In fact our first and second cars where Renault 4 on my recommendation. I personally owned two Peugeot 304. From my perspective I think that the French auto companies were reluctant to solve their US specific problems because they had a relatively easy way out: they could make hay with what they built in Africa, Asia and most of Europe. They simply looked at the US as too big of a hurdle both in emissions engineering and product quality. In particular the product quality (rust resistance) hurt them also in European countries that require periodic technical inspection. If they had taken on the challenge it would have increased their R&D expenses significantly. They would have been forced to raise their prices even in markets where personal income was rather low. That would have diminished one important advantage.
Also, French mechanics fix cars to make them go again. German mechanics fix cars to make them pass TuV or DECRA and the customer pays for that. I assume that African, Asian and a large portion of European countries were following French repair methods and the customers were happy with that. As a result the corporate suits never took the complaints coming form the US, Germany and Switzerland and a few others very serious. As you said they were unwelcome incursions.
The result is too bad because I really miss the unique qualities the Peugeot and Renault of my youth had to offer. I don’t even have a chance to sample a current French car anymore when I visit family in Germany just a stone throw from Strassbourg. None of my family and friends has a French car and the rental companies never offered me one either. At least there is vin rouge et Camembert.
i use to drive a 78 504 ti auto and it was the most comfortable car i ever had the pleasure of driving i remember one time noticing how all 4 wheels would drop so low when the car would be up on the lift for the yearly inspection it was almost like looking at a live animal been suspended by the belly when hoisting them onto a ship, talking about suspension travel , these cars had soul unlike the bloated things of today.
Nice article, the 504 was a very special car (my first in fact a 9 yr old £400 banger in 1984 ) I tried repeating the experience in 2000 with a 10/11 year old 505 family estate bought from my employer, not so magical i’m afraid. Times and the industry move on. I still dream of driving a 2.0 litre 504GL petrol manual through the south of France before I die though!
I guess I was kind of surprised that some people see the 504 as unreliable as our family have owned heaps of these at one time or another, I should add that I don’t remember any of the ones we had as having air con or electrics. My Grandad and Great Uncle decided they really liked them as we live in an area with steep hills and windy roads and the suspension and handling were pretty good, the first one I can remember Mum and Dad having would have been in the late 80s and was our family car at the time. My fist car was a mid 70s baby blue 504, The last ones left in the family were my Great Uncles and Grandma’s as they both passed away in the last two years. My partner and I bought my Great Uncles off his estate, there were a couple of things we needed to do such as a new radiator and a new clutch plate, but the car is a 79 and they were original so cant really complain! it has about 210,000km on the spedo. the pug club president in Invercargill said he had heard of people getting 700,000km out of their engines so I guess I will be driving it for a while yet! I should also add that my partner while not a mechanic is pretty handy and can do most things himself, he has struggled a little working on the 504 as he is used to working on mainly old holdens and they are just different to euro engineering. We also find the pug rather economical as long as the points are kept well adjusted, last trip we took to see my parents we got about 8.5L per 100km which is far better than the modern Mitsubishi 4×4 I was driving for work until last year. Ours was imported into NZ and from what I understand was new into Hong Kong. We wont be getting rid of it any time soon and its amazing how many comments we get while out and about in it.
If you re-read the headline of this post, it makes the situation fairly clear. It was mostly the combined additional demands from smog controls, air conditioning, power steering automatics, and other factors that created many of the unhappy experience many Americans experienced. Fundamentally, the 504 was a very rugged car.
The notion that additional equipment brings overheating is old wives tales. Unbelievable that anyone can agree with that analysis. There are much less powerful engines with a tonne more equipment that run just fine. Lack of understanding on how to maintain Peugeot engines is the primary cause of overheating nothing else.
I’m quite surprised that there is a perception that these cars are not reliable! The american cars must be very different to the ones we have here in Africa. I bought a 1979 504 gl with 180000km on the clock a year ago (it is my 4th Peugeot, had a 407hdi then a 308gti and now a new 508gt) I also have a 1981 Mercedes 230CE. The Peugeot is only 2 years older than the old Merc but it’s design dates from 1968 compared to the Merc’s design of 1976. Suffice to say the Merc is a much more refined and modern vehicle with an interior thats in a league above the old Peugeot. But the ol Pug is much more reliable than the Merc, it doesn’t have all the electronics and powered devices (such as power steering) that the Merc has so it is more basic car with less that can break. I use it on farm roads close to Johannesburg which is 1500metres above sea level and very hot in the summer, yet the Pug never overheats. It is a joy on these roads, nippy, supremely comfortable and very entertaining. The handling is very forgiving and it has the well known Peugeot quality of a rear end that can slide around at your command in a totally controlled and predictable fashion. The rear seats are lounge like in their comfort, upholstered in soft velour. The car also easily clears the roughest dirt roads with ease. Spares are freely available and cheap here. The only negative of owning a 504 in Africa is the security: they often get stolen in South-Africa and smuggled into Zimbabwe, Malawi or other African countries with Right hand drive cars. After owning several Mercs, a Chrysler Crossfire, Smart Fortwo, Renault 5, VW Amarok, Toyota Hilux and Ford Bantam and off course the 3 other Pugs I can only conclude that the 504 is the best car of them all, simple, reliable and entertaining. Just for interest’s sake, legend has it that Pininfarina used the eyes of Sophia Loren as inspiration for the 504’s headlights. 🙂
See the comment i just left at the previous comment just above yours.
It is rather sad then that Peugeot didn’t engineer the add-ons as well as the rest of the car. The 505 that succeeded the 504 had standard power steering and the more expensive ones aircon here in S.A, yet the 505’s where nearly as reliable as the 504’s. This must have been engineered into the cars from the beginning and not as add-ons like the 504 in the U.S.A. The 505 was the last Peugeot to be sold here untill 1985 when all the French motor companies pulled out of South-Africa due to sanctions against S.A. They did themselves great harm by this for the 404, 504 and 505 created such a loyal following of people that was then forced to buy German and Japanese. The French companies returned in 1996 but till today is struggling to get a foothold in the market again, inspite of at the price selling superior engineered and better specced cars than the Germans and Japanese.
I have owned a Pug 504 Ti since new (December 1973), it has now covered some 380k kms (hardly driven for the last 15 years). It has been driven over some of the roughest roads in Australia, loaded and at speed.
At age 17 years (the 504) I began towing a race car and trailer behind it travelling about 10k km each year over about 10 years.
It is only in the garage because we have become soft and enjoy air con (& she who must be obeyed will not ride without it).
I have had very little trouble with the car, in fact I would enjoy using it daily except for the lack of air con.
No mention of the 504s winning the East African Safari Rallys countless times?
Has anyone ever checked the numbers of 504s produced and sold worldwide to see how they numbers compare with ANY American built model car?
Sorry!
504 are still produced …
I am very enthusiast about the US version of the 504, so enthisiast that i have decided to have it produced 1/43 scale.
Please visit my website http://www.voxxi9.com and feel free to comment !
Fred from Paris
3D printing, you joker!
I have just come across this site. US 504s definitely play in a different league of Euro-spec 504s. The picture below was taken last week during some routine maintenance session in a friend’s garage.
استفاده کردم خوب بود
thank you
Have you seen Ron Howard’s movie Rush? It follows Niki Lauda and James Hunt through the incredible 1976 F1 season. I quite enjoyed it. Lots of yummy Euro-CCs too.
It has a whole scene with a Peugeot 504! Which breaks down of course 😉
I was thinking of that scene and Niki Lauda’s early version of on board diagnostics all along while reading the article. Perfect!
My first memories of cars – my father drove a ’74 504 Diesel 4-speed manual with column shifter. He sold it in 1984 to get a 604 (now *that* is a real POS)…
Best 504 movie moment: chase scene with the 2CV and two black 504s in For Your Eyes Only down a mountain in Spain.
James Bond in the 2CV
“We are being out horsepowered”
I owned a ’76 Peugeot Diesel 504 for a couple years, back in the early to mid-90’s. Bought it from a nice couple for maybe $450. It ran great! Very few problems. I remember only having to replace the glow plugs and some support part on the front suspension went bad. Made those repairs myself. The single most comfortable car seats I have ever sat on, EVER! LOVED that car! Wish I still had it. I lost it because I had amassed too many parking tickets in Los Angeles, which had doubled in fines and fees and finally my car was booted and it would have cost me five times more to get it out of impound than I paid for it, and I didn’t have much money back then. Very sad. Wish I still had one now, but alas, they’re hard to find.
Thanks for the post.
I am a grade A car addict—models, Matchboxes, brochures, posters, books, and 23 of the real thing, including my pride and joy, 1966 AMC Marlin. My sisters, on the other hand drive sedans (one is a Toyota Echo…) until they die; and place cars on the same level as toaster ovens and washing machines. Not sexist, but true. 🙁
Hello,
just bought a 504 Dangel. Unfortunately the reduction gearbox and front propshaft and diff was removed…if anybody knows one lying around, let me know please.
Car is running in Malawi, Afrika.
Regards,
Axel
We had a brand new 504 diesel automatic sedan my dad bought new in Brooklyn NY on Pennsylvania Avenue. Really nice car but it came with lots of problems and eventually blew the motor. We replaced the motor and the second one eventually went too. Leaked oil like crazy as well parts were incredibly expensive and difficult to get. He should have bought a Coupe Deville instead. They costed about the same at the time.
Nice article Paul. I love the way most people assume this car is a POS (to use your terminology). They are certainly (largely) misunderstood in Australia. When I bought one at the tender age of 21, my mates thought I’d lost the plot. Only one (who had some engineering nous) recognised its beauty and timeliness. My old 75 504 Ti is still THE most fluid and enjoyable driving experience I’ve ever had.
I would think it would depend on who you ask about the Peugeot. I’ve heard some say that it’s a pile of s***, while others say that it’s one of the best built cars out there. As I’ve never driven one myself, I can’t say either way. My belief is that they may be well-built cars, the problem is that there was little if any service or maintenance centres in North America to keep cars running like they should. I hope I’m wrong.
We had a ’77 504D 4spd sedan when I was growing up. Pops bought it new and replaced Mom’s ’66 Catalina wagon. Jumping on the diesel bandwagon, I guess. First car I ever drove.
You can’t begin to imagine how slow it was. Quirky controls- push or pull one of the stalks for the horn. Rotate the other for the headlights. The seats where great and the ride was wonderful. Champagne color, velour interior and a manual sunroof. Dad added AC a year or two later.
I think the head gasket blew two or three times. First one resulted in a new motor when Mom kept driving and wondering why the car was making strange noises. The last time it was my younger brothers car, and he was the family car killer. Maybe that was the hidden plan. Pops bought a used gas 505. Night and day on the controls and interior. Still the same comfortable seats and ride. That car ran well, until it was passed to my brother. Another notch on his Peugeot bedpost.
We used to joke that if Pops bought one more Peugeot, he would have gotten a free trip to France and a medal under the Arc de Triomphe. Almost went for the MI16, but bought an off lease Lincoln Continental.
I really enjoy the 504s. When I come across one for sale i can’t help myself; i have to go look at it and then I want it of course. Even if it is a junker I usually find some way to justify the purchase. Most of the ones I come across are late 70s diesels up here in Vancouver Canada. I have a beauty, it’s a gasoline automatique with some nice options… manual sunroof and crank windows, no air conditioning. The best part is that it has the original shiny paint and less than 60,000km… it still had the original tires on it when I bought it! The car had been sitting inside a heated garage since 1994; it’s perhaps my most valued possession. Nice to see there are others out there who love these cars 😉
When I was a lad of maybe 6, in the mid 80’s, a neighbor who lived in the next building down in our apartment complex drove a 504. A nice medium blue non-metallic, and I distinctly remember the large gold lion emblem on the grille. I always enjoyed seeing that one in the parking lot…I’ve seen very, very few since then.
Um…wow. That’s about the only Pininfarina car I can recall not inspiring a “meh” or “yuck” reaction in me.
Yeah; what an over-rated plagiarizing hack! I can’t imagine what folks saw in any of his designs, except of course his take a giant Caddy. And even that’s derivative. I bet he saw some early renderings or clays when he visited Bill Mitchell and the GM studios in Detroit.
But then why did Mitchell fawn all over him, and call him the “Maestro”? Hmmm. And I hear Mitchell bought a couple of new Pininfarinas almost every year in Italy and had them set up prominently in the Design Center. My guess is he wanted to show his designers how not to do it, and be genuinely original.
Sorry, Paul, I can’t tell if you’re being forthright or snarkastic here. It’s probably because Pininfarina and Giugiaro and Bertone are so widely lionised and held exempt from critique, let alone criticism, because everyone just knows Italian cars and designs are inherently awesome and perfect and sexy and each of them is unique and original just like a special snowflake. My failure to toe that line here at CC has garnered some spitback. Whatever. My tastes are well off the bell curve and I acknowledge that, but it doesn’t mean I’m going to stop going “meh” and “yuck” when that’s my reaction.
The ratio is about 1 to 10. 🙂
There’s no way I’m going to launch in a defense (or critique) of PF here in a comment. I’ve been meaning to do a series or major article on the subject for years, but it’s a bit daunting.
Yes, there is room for criticism,as there is for any human. But on the other hand, he was by far the single most influential designer of the 40s, 50s and early mid 60s. After that time, he really wasn’t originating designs himself, so we have to also determine if we’re critiquing PF’s own work, or the work of his large company after a certain time.
I understand the the impulse not to toe any line. There’s certainly none here. I’m a fan but not an acolyte of PF. But I also have healthy skepticism about any wholesale dissing of any designer. I’m happy to analyze and debate any specific PF design, but I can’t begin to respond to your broad feelings on the subject, which come across more as skepticism for its own sake rather than from any proper analysis.
What designs/designers do you like? The reason I ask is because almost inevitably, I will be able to draw some connection back to PF. He is the godfather of postwar design, and almost every car designed in that period carries a bit (or more) of his DNA.
There’s a very chauvinistic attitude common in American designers; one only has to read some, and it’s mostly about how original and brilliant they were. I’m happy to give credit where it’s due.
But as I said, all the US design studios were studying every one of PF’s new designs (and other Italians) the minute they could pictures of them, or see it in the flesh. The degree of originality is often profoundly overplayed.
And yes, PF recycled his designs too. How much originality isa designer to have? I can recognize a piece by Mozart, Bach or Beethoven within the first few notes. How original were they?
The reality is that most humans have (hopefully) one great original idea/concept/song/story/picture to give to the world. It’s something that comes from the very fiber of who they are. Once that’s come out, everything henceforth is mostly just a variation of that theme, with influences by externalities (as in other designs and life experiences). There’s not all that much absolutely original creativity in this business, but PF’s was greater than just about any one else’s.
+1
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/pininfarinas-revolutionary-florida-the-most-influential-design-since-1955/
’nuff said.
I have no particular axe to grind with regard to PF, nor am I particularly interested in cultivating skepticism for its own sake. It’s just that I find damn few Pininfarina designs appealing. It doesn’t mean they’re bad or unworthy or anything else, it just means I generally don’t like them. I will say I find even fewer Giugiaro and Bertone designs appealing, but that’s as far as I’ll go.
As someone born and raised in the land of the free, and home of the brave (not to mention home of Galaxie’s and Impala’s) French cars got their reputation because their extreme quirkiness deserved it. I have had Your-A-Pee-On cars, and the only one I liked was my 245 Volvo. Being in the marine biz for 28 years, working on Volvo Penta engines and drives, might make me a wee bit biased…but, end of the day, just give me a damn Ford. Problem solved, money saved. I will add as a side note, the only French car I have ever driven was my bosses Renault 5 Turbo2 back in 1987. The funnest roller skate I have ever driven, and being 19 at the time, I had no idea just how rare these cars were. According to Ate Up with Motor, only about 200 were imported under the radar
Friend’s parents had a bought new ’74 504 gas automatic with ps/ac, and power windows. The same paint and interior as the pictured example, minus the grey 505 seats in this car. A deep maroon with tan interior. Looked nice in that color. The doors would slam like a bank vault, the velour seats were super cushy and comfortable, and the car had a very smooth ride. Never drove it, but rode both in front and back seat. Back seat very impressive, sat up high and lots of room.
They kept the miles low, had it for around 10 years, I doubt it had over 70k miles on it at the end. It still looked great the whole time they owned it. His mom told me power steering and transmission both had problems, and I think the AC was inop for the last couple of years. Very underpowered, quite slow. But it had it’s appeal. His mom was German but the Peugeot was her car, his dad French and he drove a Diesel Rabbit. The family vacation car was a ’63 Suburban, which they kept until ’86.
Too bad about all the accessory and emission quality problems in US form, the basic car was quite nice and well built.
Peugeot was limited it seems by the engine size. Even when the 505 came out in 1980 with FI and a 5 sp, the car took 13 seconds to 60. This is according to R/T. the car Around 1986, the NA 505 shifted to a 120hp Simca based 2.2. A decent inline 6 built off the four ala 164E Volvo would have transformed the car.
The Douvrin PRV 2.8L V6 was available, though I’m not sure if that was at its introduction. Not sure what the take-rate on this was, though. I knew some MB W123 owners back then who said they preferred the Diesel versions over the 280.
He’s essentially right: the little pushrod hemi-head four had reached the limits of its development. Given that it was 35 years old by 1980, that’s not surprising. It was still an exceptionally smooth-running four, but its performance number were slipping as the cars got bigger and heavier.
The V6 was installed in the 505 pretty late in its life. But the 2.2 Simca/Talbot four supplanted the Peugeot 2.0, and it was available in turbo form, which was quite a strong runner.
I’ll be doing a new CC on the 505 shortly.
Can’t remember where I saw this, but I have the impression that the normally aspirated 2.2-liter SOHC four (also shared with some Renaults) was one engine, and the Simca/Talbot turbo four was another. Supposedly the Simca/Talbot engine got turbo’ed because it had a stiffer block.
Quite right; I sometimes forget that the 505 had three different gas fours used in it. The SOHC “Douvrin” four was a co-development by Peugeot and Renault, and came in 1995 2165 cc versions. The Simca Type 180 engine had 2165 cc, and was only used as the turbo engine for the reasons you stated.
Interesting to note the Pug has been replaced in Africa by Japanese cars actually no, African countries import thousands of very cheap Japanese used 4WDs and cars so on price and easy availability the 504has lost out not reliability, for as my BIL noticed touring Tanzania, Botswana namibia and other interesting places without proper roads in recent years rental Japanese cars and 4x4s are seen broken down on a regular basis they are very cheap to buy but like in NZ many lemons are exported amongst the good ones.
I got to be honest, I don’t see the Mercedes Benz influence in this 504. If you’re talking about it from a reliability perspective, I would agree with you. But, I don’t see anything remotely Mercedes Benz like in the design. I think it’s the sloping trunk lid that gets me, that design feature reminds me more of what an American sub compact from the 70s or early 80s would look like rather than anything coming from Stuttgart (Think the bustleback theme, only less overt)
I never once said that the 504’s styling/design was influenced by Mercedes. It obviously wasn’t.
The term “French Mercedes” was coined because the Peugeot played a similar role in France as Mercedes did in Germany: builder of solid, RWD sedans, with a decidedly conservative aspect (unlike Citroen, etc.) And on the European market, the Peugeots were often the most direct competitors (albeit cheaper) to Mercedes for folks who wanted that.
Oh, my mistake Paul. I apologize. Now, I understand why that comparison was made.
Ok, I have read much about this car. I recall seeing only one, a 504, in my life out here. I remember peering into the engine bay of Dr. A’s 504 as she wondered what the problem was. That was 1992. Now I have gone looking for what people say are the quirks of the car and if you know how to deal with them you will be a happy owner. If not you will be a decidedly unhappy owner. So what exactly are the mechanical quirks as I understand the electrical gremlins in models from the mid-70’s and on. If I found a 404 or early 504 what do I need to really know?
I can’t give you that in one quick comment. Peruse the various Peugeot posts here at CC, or find some forums.
I thought the 504 sedans looked about perfect except for that droopy tail.
In this case, I would’ve taken handsome Italian over quirky French any day.
At least the wagons still looked good – until 1974, when those dreadful black 5 mph bumpers were tacked on. But even Mercedes had horrendous ugly 5 mph bumpers in those days.
But by the ’70s, there was an industrial epidemic of replacing formerly sturdy metal with flimsy plastic on almost everything – not just French automobiles. I remember in ’77, a friend had a ’71 FWD Peugeot 304 sedan. Loved the ride, the seats and the styling (no droopy trunk) Hated the mushy shifter and working on the car. With that sideways engine and belt that went around corners to drive the fan – which I believe, still had an electric fan-clutch – it left me wondering why didn’t they just go with an electric fan?
It also made it extra hard to work on, including when we went to replace a rotten fuel hose and the plastic nipple on the fuel-pump cover snapped right off! Something that should’ve been metal but was flimsy plastic! And it took more than a week to get the part. We fixed that, but eventually the clutch went, and my friend dumped the car, as by then, it was rusting so badly, the clutch would’ve cost more than the car was worth!
Another friend had a ’74 504, and actually that one lasted well into sometime in the ’80s,. But they had the car for most of their ownership in Spokane, Washington, where it doesn’t get that hot and they don’t salt the roads. So that car held up OK.
Between 1977 and 1991, I had 3 early ’70s Audi Super 90s, two wagons and a parts-car sedan. Now those cars were never paragons of reliability. In fact they were probably the most trouble-prone vehicles I’ve ever owned. But I loved the wagons performance, ride, handling, fuel economy and cargo-room, their FWD design was relatively easy to work on, and through the ’80s, parts were still availible, even from Audi. And the fuel pump was all metal and never gave me a problem. So I kept it going until parts supplies finally dried up around 1990. That year I got my first Japanese vehicle – an ’87 Isuzu pickup – the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned.
Don’t know if I could’ve kept a Peugeot going that long in those days before the internet. A few years ago, I looked at a ’71 Saab 95 wagon that needed some TLC. I thought those cars had a cult following and parts wouldn’t be that hard to find. Even with the internet, It was very difficult or impossible. So I passed.
I wonder how hard it is today, getting parts for a Peugeot in the US?
Happy Motoring, Mark
Excellent write up on a car that was mostly misunderstood in this country. I always thought it was quite attractive, except for that unfortunate rear end treatment.
Maybe it’s a little presumptuous for me to try to improve on the work of Pininfarina, but I submit these two 505-ish “what if” photochops for discussion and dissection.
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These photochops are very enlightening. I agree that the dropped tail is a bit unusual but when I look at the 504 with a more conventional rear end as above, all the charm of the car disappears. I’m no designer but to me the dropped tail sort of pinches the rear end and gives the car a more forward, propulsive look. With the photochop the car is a big static block.
By the way, I’m not sure how often designers go into detail about their rationale but I’d love to hear what the designers at PF were thinking when they made the 504. Is there any info about this out there?
Granted it looks more generic with the conventional shape of the rear, but I think the overall proportions of the car are improved somewhat, not to mention that usable trunk space would also be enhanced.
That’s starting to look a bit 604-ish, surprisingly, or not!
Right. The longer I stretched the deck, the more like a 604 it appeared.
I think this look would have done wonders for US sales.
Yup. Good point, JP.
Mostly nice. The drooping tail was not a success, but it did lend a certain character to the 504’s design, and was not a total failure either. I think I understand what they were trying to do with the droop, but it just doesn’t quite make it from a number of angles.
The 604 was essentially a re-bodied 504, hence the similar proportions.
Best part of the real end styling was done by the owner with the “Global Warming is not cool” bumper sticker. 🙂
When I was growing up in early (1970’s) Silicon Valley, I always thought of Peugeots as more “French Volvo” than “French Mercedes.” It may have been because Mercedes and BMWs seemed to appeal to salesmen, bankers and other spivs attached to the hi-tech business while Peugeots appeared to attract the same buyers as the Swedish cars did: college instructors, engineers and other professional types who wanted to show off a little, but not too much. This may have led to Peugeot’s downfall; the German car buyers may not have known much more about their cars, but their jobs required them to put on a good show at all times, so they may have been more willing to spend the time and money to take care of their wheels than the Peugeot owners did.
Interesting write up on a great car and a personal favourite as a Convertible.
Paul refers to the Peugeot as being the French Mercedes; my take would be, for this period and in the UK at least, that Peugeot was the French Volvo or even a French Rover. The price step and the lack of overlap of the Pug and M-B model ranges separated them. But the European and especially German market position of Mercedes was different – in the UK, M-B was unashamedly a luxury brand, never a taxi.
That rear end was an acquired taste and the Landcrab version is even more evident on the original Mk1, without the rather twee fins BMC added.
Roger, as my article makes clear, it wasn’t me that coined the expression “French Mercedes”. It was popularized by the Germans, who appreciated it as an alternative to the Mercedes. It’s quite the compliment, coming from them, as you probably well know.
I grew up hearing Peugeots referred to that way.
I am the one in the group that loved the front end, loved the tail end design, loved everything about it! I had a 79 504D my two complaints were slow as molasses and the fact that the trunk had rusted through so that I could put my whole hand inside and pull something out while still keeping it locked. I did love that car though. The last time I was ever able to ride in one was in 2000. I lived in Cairo and every taxi at the time was a 504.
Apparently the 504 bodies performed exceptionally badly in crash tests.
This one looks pretty scary to me.
I always wanted a 505 turbo, but maybe it was just as well I never got one….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_1b7d7yK7QQ
The ONE thing that scares me from owning a Peugeot… is their engineering penchant for using BRASS gears in the differential!!! I’m not totally certain of this: a late friend told me about this “habit”. Thus, I really “can’t confirm or deny”. Can anyone here?
Peugeot engineering trait from the 201 to most 404, was to use worm-drive rear axles with a bronze crown wheel and pinion, necessitating industrial castor oil as the correct lubricant (incorrect oils would attack the bronze). The worm-drive axles gave a massive reduction ratio with fewer moving parts, provided a lower centre of gravity and enabled a roomier / lower inside rear floor space, but unfortunately sapped more power than hypoid axles. Frequent oil change intervals should be respected too, but are often neglected. It’s safest to deal with the oil change yourself and avoid taking these Peugeots to any garage.
Years ago I got to occasionally drive my boss’s 1971 504, on one occasion a longer 400 mile trip. I tried a short cut that landed me on a 100 mile section of badly corrugated dirt road, and I’ll never forget how impressed I was with the suspension, it soaked up the ruts and bumps and combined with the most comfortable seat I had ever sat it is was a memorable experience. Two years later, I had a 1972 504 in my driveway, just had to have one. It was a wonderful car, no major repairs. The rack and pinion was so much more precise and well weighted than anything else on the road at that time. Wish I had one now. I prefer the early ’70’s 504, simpler and without the ugly US bumpers.
Paul you forgot to mention Argentina, where almost 500.000 were produced during 30 years (1969-1999) and some exported to several countries. It was, and still is, praised by everyone who drove or rode one and by almost every classic car enthusiast. During the 1980´s and all the way into the 2000´s it was the country´s signature taxi cab, specially the diesel versions. Almost every part was manufactured here and after production of the original model ceased in 1983, it was redesigned three times, always mantaining its original quality. I own an albatros grey 1987 GRD, the diesel variant of the first local redesign. It was the family car for almost 25 years and then i took it for me and began its restoration, which is still underway. It’s a proud example of Argentine industry and a reminder of our prosperous industrial past, which is sadly long gone thanks to incompetent politicians. Here is some info with pictures:
https://www.arcar.org/peugeot-504-grd-1985-84035
http://www.taringa.net/posts/autos-motos/19800310/Peugeot-504-con-motor-Diesel-Ligero.html
Francisco, mientras halla gente como usted que aprecia lo bueno de nuestra industria Argentina habrá una esperanza de salir adelante. Comparto la misma pasión por los Yeyos, tengo un 504 negro gasolero ex taxi, le reparé el motor a nuevo y le hice más de 500 mil kms, lo dejé descansar desde el 2019 por qué me compré al amor de mí vida, una 504 pick Up 1993 con muy pocos kms. Admiro profundamente a vehículos tan nobles, fieles y duraderos, nunca más se volvió a fabricar algo así.
Saludos y que tenga un 2022 lleno de éxitos.
Buenas Eduardo, sabia que algun otro argentino iba a ver este comentario jaja. Te felicito por tus autos y si, amo la industria nacional y me gusta mucho leer sobre su historia. Saludos y exitos para vos tambien
I missed an opportunity to post on this thread when it was new, but I’ll post now in the slim chance that somebody will read this and laugh. My wife recently posted on Facebook 2-part anecdote from her childhood that relate’s to her father’s beloved 504 in the 1970s. Her dad bought the car in France and had it shipped to Libya, where he was involved with an agricultural program through the U.N.
Part I: The Family Reunites
Nothing takes me back to the summer of 1976 faster than this song, now playing as I prepare tortellini in brodo for Eve. That summer, we miraculously managed to reunite with my Dad who met us in France, after a year of separation when the war broke out in Lebanon.
My parents bought a blue Peugeot 504, which I think we sailed to Libya, where we would live until December of 1980.
You can imagine that was a pivotal summer for a 9 year old kid, but with no electronic distractions, the music we listened to burned into my brain. I instantly conjure up the beauty of the Mediterranean Sea, the sounds of the streets of France, and merciless hours driving through desert staring out windows listening to Enrico Macias, Gilbert Becaud, Olivia Newton John, and the Carpenters, to name a few. My Dad would sing or hum, and he loved to go for drives… he still does! So if you listen, picture staring out of the left side of the back seat window at endless miles of sand and sea… or simply at nothing but desert…
Part II. Fond (and not-so-fond) Memories of the 504
While I didn’t go rooting through my old Libya pictures, I will share what I loved about the fact that we owned a Peugeot 504:
a) the darned thing never started in the morning, so we would get behind the car and run, pushing it down the hill while my Dad would jump in and get it to turn over
b) low likelihood of getting stolen
c) my cousin could sit low enough in the back seat, unnoticed as he devoured the loaves of French bread my mom had purchased, and a scene of utter hilarity would ensue
d) the goats in the streets LOVED to climb on the roof to nibble at the eucalyptus tree which would send my mother into a hysterical frenzy and we’d have to go chase them away…
By far d) was my favorite!
To which my mother-in-law replied…
That darned car hated humidity, and we lived right next to the sea. And your cousin eating all the bread was funny enough, but it wasn’t–when you figure in that we had had to drive all the way across town to get our ration of 6 loaves, only to arrive back home with only one! At that point we could only laugh at the bread-a-holic in the back seat!!
I’ve owned Pugs for over 30 years. I live in Australia which is overall hotter than America and with many more miles of dirt. ¹/17 of the population and similar size to the Lower 48 means much of the interior is dirt roads.
I’ve never had a Pug overheat on me l always checked the coolant and maintained all components. They are brilliant, dependable and robust cars. I sourced my parts which was always much cheaper than the national importer’s gouging, I mean, pricing policies.
I never had coolant cross-contamination with the oil. Steering, suspension and brakes were easy to maintain and repair. They handled dirt roads way better than Australian built cars which were only American derivatives anyway. They were supposedly built for Australian conditions but were inadequate.
I place only Porsche and Mercedes Benz above them. Unfortunately the Peugeot brand suffered bad decisions. I pinpoint the dropping of the wet-sleeve engine, in the early 90s, as the beginning of their decline. Since they have built sporty cars like the 80’s 205 GTi, 405 Mi16 and later 306 GTi6 and the 307 180 Sport but the build quality is wanting.
Confession is good for the soul.
I loved my 1979 504 as much as I love my 1980 Bustleback Seville.
It looks like someone would have sold a fiberglass butt lift trunk lid falsie for the 504, similar to the RR grille for the Beetle. For that matter, Peugeot could easily have redone it in the factory. Adding requiring less re-engineering than subtracting.
Brilliant car. Owned a ‘79 diesel sedan in the 80’s. Outstanding ride, best seats ever. Mine was stone-cold reliable. 40 mpg. Would start at -5 F (my Mercedes diesel wouldn’t start at 30F). I would have it still if the body didn’t dissolve and it would go in the snow.
I daily-drive a 504 station wagon with over 450,000 miles on it and it’s the best POS I’ve ever owned. And it’s air-conditioned!