(first posted 11/28/2018) I could certainly add the tag “Last One on the Streets Here” on this Quantum’s title. It’s been a few years since I last saw one, and I rather assumed they were all gone. I should know better. Old water cooled VWs do have a following, although it’s mostly gen1 cars. The Quantum, known as the Passat elsewhere (and Santana in sedan form in some places, notably China, where it was built almost forever), was not exactly all that common when it was new here. It rather failed to maintain that spark of interest that its predecessor, the Dasher (Passat B1) generated. But then by 1982, VW’s star was hardly shining bright in the face of ever-more sophisticated Japanese cars.
The Quantum arrived here for the 1982 model year, in sedan, wagon and hatchback coupe form (the rather awkward four door hatchback was not brought state-side). It was of course very closely related to the gen2 Audi 80 (4000 in the US), which had preceded it by some three years. Quantum-come-lately. It was a bit longer than the Audi, and had a different rear suspension.
The base engine was the typical 1.7 and later 1.8 L VW fours, fuel injected. Later, a GL5 version of the sedan had the Audi 2.2L five. And there was also a rather expensive Syncro wagon, which shared the Audi’s Quattro system up until the rear axle, which was actually from the VW transporter, to help retain a flat floor, but it did require a completely different floor pan.
This ’85 is a regular Quantum wagon, with the 1.8 four rated at 88hp. There was also an optional 1.6 L turbo-diesel four, with 68hp. Neither one was going to peel your eyes back, but they did their respective jobs reasonably adequately, especially as long as the power-sapping automatic was not behind it.
The rear seat of this one seems to have been spared a lot of wear, hardly an uncommon sight in older cars. Leg room was reasonably adequate; a bit better than its predecessor.
The bright trim around the rear window on this one has aged in a peculiar way. Frilly; not something one usually associates with VWs from this era.
I didn’t get a shot of it, but the rear cargo area of these was quite roomy, thanks to VW’s space-efficient FWD design.
The Quantum had a lot of tough competition from the Volvo 240 series, which was enjoying a huge late-life boom. The Volvo 245 wagon became an icon of a certain segment of the population. The Quantum just never got that kind of traction, despite its many objectively strong qualities. VW was struggling in the 80s, as its reliability and image suffered a one-two punch from the issues with the early water cooled cars as well as the Malibuization of the US-built Rabbit. The Quantum wasn’t cheap either. The Volvo was just a safer bet, in a whole number of ways, although the VWs were clearly lither and more fun to drive.
VW has struggled in the US since the demise of the Beetle, and is still trying to make it work. VW USA has lost some $500-600 million per year in the past few years. The total accumulated losses in the US over the decades must be staggering; billions, undoubtedly. But VW is hanging tough, and keeps stepping up to the plate, now with a huge commitment to EVs in the wake of dieselgate. Will this finally turn the corner for them?
That frilly chrome trim is something more common with some German cars, including my father’s second BMW, a 1984 318i. It had the weird feature using the polished metal stripe beneath clear plastic cover that felt rubbery to touch.
Three scorching hot Dallas summers later, the trim started to shrink, expand, twist, warp in different places. That allowed some water to enter and rust out the trim. BMW was unapologetically unmoved by my father’s plight to have them replaced under the warranty.
For his third and final BMW, he specified no chrome trim option for his 325i.
“Quantum” just seems like such a sinister name for a family car. I understand that Passat is a German word and they probably figured North Americans would be confused, but I then again VW has always raised some questions with the naming of its cars (Tiguan, Arteon, etc.).
These were reasonably attractive and straightforward cars for their time, but as you mention, VW’s diminishing reputation, increasing competition from Japanese brands, the Quantum’s price tag, and the similar looking Audi 80 (4000) that had already been on the market several years all did this car in.
I’ve always wondered why VW decided to give their cars different names for North America versus the rest of the world in the 1970s and 80s. The first gen Golf was the Rabbit in the US, then with the next generation they decided to call it the Golf here. The car that was the Passat to the rest of the world was the Dasher, then the Quantum, then the Passat in the US. I know it’s not uncommon for cars to have different names in different markets, but why start out with one name only to change it?
As rare as the Syncros are, I almost think it’s getting harder to find a FWD one nowadays, especially in wagon form as this one. Nice find in a good color!
I was 100% certain that this Syncro system is effectively (basically exactly) the same to what is fitted to the 4000 and turbo Quattro of the era though. The Vanagon has a completely different system though and in later years the systems diverged across the lineups even more depending on model. I could certainly be wrong but it would shatter a 30-odd year belief of mine.. Same engine, same trans, same manual vacuum diff locks as the Audi 80(4000), all the same as early Quattro, no?
The Syncro drive train was the same as the Quattro, but the rear axle is totally different; Audi used a modified front axle; VW used a modified bus (Vanagon) rear axle. I should have clarified that.
Gotcha, I knew the rear diff housing has a different part number for example due to the housing shape difference but the internals o fit are identical along with all the other oily bits in the system. The driveshaft is in some way different too but can be interchanged from what I understand. I wasn’t quite sure how you’d meant it, there are so many different generations of Quattro and Syncro itself has different versions before they renamed it 4motion etc.
For some reason that I don’t quite understand, the Audi 4000q went to 5lug wheels while the Quantum Syncro stayed with the 4×100 bolt pattern that FWD 4000’s and Quantums had. Wheel size itself stayed the same across the models (14″).
Regular 4000q had 4×108 bolt pattern. Fooler – wheels looked the same as the 4×100.
Could it have had something to do with removing the rear window in order to change the rear shock absorbers?
Jim, you are correct. Very useful if you want to create the ultimate sleeper. A friend has one with a 450 hp (using a somewhat modified 5 cyl., 20-valve turbo engine) and the looks on people’s faces when they realize they can’t pull away from what looks like a stock station wagon can be imagined.
As for the 2wd there are still one or two bombing about in my area here in Austria. Those never suffered from the reliability problems they were afflicted with in North America here and can survive for very high mileages if maintained. They don’t seem to rust as badly as other cars from that period.
Yeah it was always on the “one day” list back when I had my C4 S4/S6’s. Here’s one that was converted by one of my ice-driving aquaintances with a modified Audi 1.8T which fits even better. Plenty of power to keep the tail out everywhere at will. The extra weight of the wagon rear end really changes the balance compared to a 4000q.
Und der Motor.
Nice! I forgot about the 1.8T.
A co-worker had a daughter that bought one of these in sedan form, though it may have been a later model, but I seem to remember it was either a Synchro or a GL5. Since he was a hard core GM guy, I could not imagine how that car came to be in his family but I guess his daughter really fell for the image VW was just starting to cultivate: German engineering (but at a reduced price).
Anyway, that sedan was this same shade of blue. I never did hear what happened to it, but it was not too long before the daughter was car shopping again.
I like these cars for their uniqueness, but hate them for their dismal reliability.
Alas, so many who fell for the image of “German engineering (but at a reduced price)” later realized that this only applied to the purchase price.
The cost of maintaining a water-cooled VW in the US disillusioned some first-time owners, who expected parts and labor to cost about the same as domestic cars that sold in the same price range.
I really dislike the “Last One on the Streets Here?” Tag and wish you didn’t use it. It is just depressing. It makes Curbside Classics a depressing experience and I hate that, because I love this site.
IIRC when the B3 arrived (finally with the Passat name) it came with a substantial price cut over the outgoing B2 Quantum that moved it from a near-luxury price point to direct competition with the Camcord and Taurus. That bit of realism on VW’s part led to a nice sales boost that helped (along with the Brazilian Fox) keep VW alive in the US during the endlessly delayed A3 Golf/Jetta launch.
The Quantum notchback sedan looked a bit awkward to me – perhaps the rear doors are a little too short. The station wagon looks better.
I had a wagon with the 5 cylinder in the same color. Paid for it twice with all the repairs, quite a troublesome car! It did cruise nice on the highway though, once up to speed. Developed a rancid stink, probably due to clogged drain holes, and
I was tired of shoveling money into it, so bought a Mazda 626 5 door and sold the Quantum to a kid. It should have taught me a lesson, but I later bought a Jetta VR6. That car finally got me off VW for good. Made one final attempt at German cars with BMW and now I am done.
My parents bought one new in 1985: Volkswagen Quantum wagon in “Kalahari Beige”, with a stick shift. It drove very nicely–seemed more “sophisticated” and better put-together than a typical American car. As it aged, water pooled in the interior after a rainstorm, and the front axle shafts or tie rods fell apart while we were driving. (My brother and I were told to “Get out and pick up the pieces!”) Luckily, we were only two blocks from home! It had an “Upshift” light which turned on whenever you were “supposed” to shift to a higher gear. I found that annoying–I’ll shift when I FEEL it’s right!
They traded it on a new 1999 Subaru wagon (which they still have!) I too have not seen one of these Quantums in many years. Hard to think of it as “antique!”
The plural of quantum is quanta. Does that apply to the car as well?
More seriously, your car experience resonated in an interesting way with mine with a 1990 or so Golf. Toward the end of its time with me it began taking on water to the point that the passenger side front footwell would have a pool an inch or more deep after a rainstorm. This also caused a bit of a moldy smell. That was my sign, along with the growing list of increasingly intolerable idiosyncrasies, that I needed to find another vehicle. Because I knew I would get rid of it soon I “fixed” the leak by drilling some drain holes in the floor.
Though I had some fun with that car, it always ended up costing more than I thought it should to keep it on the road. Two Subarus down the road I have no desire for another VW.
I remember that these were reeeeeeally expensive for what you got in the mid 80s. You got the German driving experience but you got the German maintenance experience too.
Volvo got most of the customers willing to pay too much for a car of that size and power, and did so because it earned the reputation of being pretty durable. With VW you got none of the snob factor and none of the value.
The interior is very similar to the ’87 Jetta I once owned, right down to the exact same seat design. I had a taste of “German engineering” – never again!
VW has struggled in the US since the demise of the Beetle, and is still trying to make it work. VW USA has lost some $500-600 million per year in the past few years. The total accumulated losses in the US over the decades must be staggering; billions, undoubtedly. But VW is hanging tough, and keeps stepping up to the plate, now with a huge commitment to EVs in the wake of dieselgate. Will this finally turn the corner for them?
Considering VW’s market leading positions in Europe and China, management probably figures the US is one of the few big markets that has growth potential, if they can get the formula right.
The old Bug defined it’s segment. VW products don’t define their segment in the US anymore, but need to conform to the market leader’s definition to be competitive.
The other market that is giving VW fits is India. iirc, VW has something like a 1.1% share there. Renault is the European brand with the largest share, at a paltry 3.5%, and it’s doing it with a mix of the designed for India Kwid and rebadged Dacias. GM abandoned India last year and there is talk Fiat is about to give up as well. India is on it’s way to passing Germany in car sales, so it’s a significant market for those who can crack the code the way Maruti Suzuki has.
That trim around the rear window; never seen that happen before. Always liked the Audi look of these VWs, which I knew as the Passat saloon or the Santana, and yes, VW in Brazil and China built them forever. One of the readers from South America can probably fill in on how long they were built in Brazil, but I think it was well into the late 1990s, and in China I think they only stopped making it within the past decade. I guess you can say it was VW’s first tentative step towards bigger cars, because the Passat came only in sedan and wagon form after this one.
I wonder, though, if that would have held true in a contest involving parking and cramped city traffic. Those RWD Volvos can almost spin about their vertical axis, so tight is their turning radius!
These arent soooo rare, especially in Seattle. Though they’ve probably disappeared over the past couple years when I wasn’t paying attention. In either case, the Syncro wagons are basically all you see.
Well, either third try’s a charm or 3 strikes (posted too quickly warning and lost post twice now) and I’m out.
This time period German VW’s interior wear like iron. That cloth material is extremely durable, my 32 year old Jetta has similar material that just refuses to split or rip. No dash cracks either, though I do see a small crack on this B2. 4 cylinder, 5 speed trans, 2wd, this is the model you want for ease of repair and best durability over the long haul. Kudos to the owner for keeping the old Quantum on the road! If budget permits a little body work and respray will spruce the old girl up.
Wonder how often the owner gets pulled over for Oregon license plate being painted silver? Or has all the paint peeled off? Great find, haven’t seen a Quantum on the road for a long time.
My parents had one of these when I was really too young to remember it. It was slightly newer as it had composite headlights. They remember it as a fun, practical car to drive when it was working, but also had quite a few reliability issues, expensive to fix, and the VW dealer experience wasn’t pleasant. After several Beetles, a Bus, and a Rabbit, it was the last Volkswagon they ever owned.
Hey Paul are you willing to sell or part out I got a 1984
Here in brazil,we have quantum with 2.0 4L etanol that produce 112 hp
Sincerely i don’t know what the average American buyer can expect from a mid priced mobile like this, which offered a lot for the money , even fits 5 in reasonable cabin space plus a big boot for all the lugagge . Here in the other corner of the Americas , the Quantum , the Santana and the shortly named Carat , yes Carat , were built by domestic Volkswagen do Brasil and Volkswagen Argentina . Brazilians also built in 2 door saloons and gigantic 2 doors’ wagons . They came with humble 1.6 Liter and 1.8 Liter . When new , they cost at the Dealer even less money than other smallish Volkswagens .
By reading this report i got really astonished for the bad reputation given by their ( USA ) owners . Here in the Southern , were roads are drammaticaly worst than cute America’s highways , these VW Quantums became incredibly reliable , fuel efficient , good commuting machine , would be enough if an American comrad made tourism around Brazil and Argentina main towns , you’ll get amazed how a respectable lot of 25 years old Quantums -Santanas are still on the road with incredible decency , good shape , high satisfaction ranks to their owners .
I almost bought a used 1.7L 4 cylinder, 5 speed manual wagon when still living in the Bay Area. It wasn’t fast, but pulled decently and handled well. Good thing I didn’t buy it, because I hadn’t consulted my then wife ! We later looked at a Peugeot 505 5 speed manual wagon, which drove very nicely, but passed due to parts and service concerns.
My university girlfriend had a 505 that I found for her. In two years all that happened was a broken fan belt. Parts were not exactly at NAPA but pretty much anything could be had. Peugeots have always been underrated in North America.
In my wanderings around the net, I discovered a dealer in the US, who has half a dozen Brazilian market VWs in inventory. This 96 Santana is one of them.
I don’t remember well if it sold wwll. The Quantums were good, personally I prefer the 504 and 505 wagon.
My parents in 1986 traded their 1983 Renault Alliance in for something my lanky dad would find more legroom in: a maron 1985 5cyl. GL sedan with tan interior. It would serve mom well getting her to work until 1992, when constant mechanical leaks got her into a 1993 Sable.
Interestingly, Mom let me drive the Quantum around the block, and I did not appreciate just how ‘heavy’ the steering was in that Teutonic sedan, compared to the finger light steering in my 1981 Buick Century I was driving by 1989 in college!
As it turns out, 6 years on VWs switch to EVs isn’t going well
For several years my fam had an ’84 VW Quantum (successor to the Dasher) sedan with the Audi inline-5. In looking to replace our prior ’82 Audi 5000 that succumbed to a black-ice incident, the Quantum wasn’t on my dad’s radar, but I knew it was basically an Audi 4000 under the skin and spotted one for sale locally. Dad was impressed with the taut ride, handling, and otherwise Audi-like feel on a test drive, so we picked it up.
Always admired its airy, strongly geometric six-window greenhouse, with a clear family resemblance to the Mk2 Scirocco in its (Americanized) nose and the sedan’s taillight styling. One slightly jarring off-note, however, was the beltline along the front doors. Rather than carrying a perfectly straight and horizontal line, it sweeps ever-so-slightly upward to meet the higher peak of the front fender.
That sweep is subtle and easy to overlook with the more delicate or absent chrome trim of Euro and late-US specs, but the Quantum’s middle years gained a thick chrome strip around the side windows, which along with that subtle sweep made the beltline look “broken” at the B-pillar, or like the door was slightly sagging or misaligned somehow. I eventually figured out this chrome strip was pretty easy to pry off and impulsively did so to ours, to my satisfaction but prolly Dad’s chagrin, tho’ he never said anything about it.
Yes, these were rare even when new, I never owned a B body VW, but my Uncle had an Audi 4000, which he still maintains is the best car he ever owned (didn’t say that about his 1999 Passat though).
I’m a longtime VW owner, in fact have owned nothing but since 1981, 3 of them so far (I keep them a long time, my current Golf is going on 25th year. Guess I’ve been lucky; though I can’t claim they haven’t given me problems, they seem to be durable maybe moreso than reliable, and interestingly the problem areas seem to vary widely between the generations; problems I had on one were sterling non-problems on another (which in turn had different problems)
I thought about that rear window gasket, it does look odd, but I recall back when I had my A1 Scirocco, (maybe i shouldn’t spread this) but one of the SOPs for thefts was to peel the rear window gasket off and remove the rear window, getting access to stereos (if you didn’t mind climbing over the seat back). Maybe someone reinstalled one that had this had been done to. Rubber parts are hard to get for something this rare, I had to order replacement rubber piece from a northern wrecking yard for my ’86 GTi since the parts in the yard near where I live (sunbelt) were worse or as bad as mine. It ran from the A pillar back to the hatch looking like a huge hockey stick, and it had a deformable spine but went on just fine after I put plenty of grease on it and replaced the plastic clips.