(first posted 3/5/2014) The Porsche 928 is perhaps more maligned than the recently featured 924. Water-cooling, an engine in the front and jelly-mould styling have all contributed to this car sitting somehwere near the bottom of the Porsche totem of worship. Porsche ownership is not on the cards for me, but if it was I would start with one of these. Why? I just love how they look.
Whilst this Type 542 Porsche proposal for Studebaker had no direct influence on the 928, it’s a good spot to start this story. Here was a four-place, water-cooled car designed for the US market. The prototypes were negatively appraised by none other than John Z. DeLorean, so Studebaker–in financial straits–pulled the plug on the project.
The next four-place vehicle in the Porsche continuum was the 1967 four-door 911. Commissioned by William J. Dick, part owner of a Texas Porsche distributorship, it was designed and built in the US so there is no indication Porsche considered it seriously for production. However, as Max Hoffman had proven, the US was to be a major player in Porsche’s future, as it was to be in the genesis of the Type 928.
By the late 1960s, Porsche Managing Director Ernst Fuhrmann–with one big eye on the US market–was pressuring Ferdinand Porsche to produce a combination of a sports coupe and luxury sedan. Incredibly, the 911, introduced in 1964, was considered near the end of its life cycle in light of falling sales and the belief that it had no room to improve. Design studies for this new model commenced under Ferdinand Piech, and by 1971 various options were mooted including mid- and rear-engined V8 arrangements. Also considered was a V10 to be sourced by twinning two five-cylinder engines linked to the VW-Audi EA-425 project.
Styling for the Type 928 was under the aegis of Anatole ‘Tony’ Lapine, in charge of the Porsche design studio since 1968 and with various GM designs under his belt including the Corvette CERV II. Wolfgang Mobius produced the sketches, which appear to have started with a more razor-edged look. One concept was eerily similar to the mid-rear engined Chevrolet Aerovette XP882. By 1973, as these styling mockups demonstrate, the 928 visual language had coalesced. Then it was put on hold. Project EA-425 had gotten in the way.
Commissioned by VW-Audi as a replacement for the 914, EA-425 came to be known as the Porsche Type 924. Harm Lagaay, under Tony Lapine, had styled this commission so the similarities with the 928 were part of the mercurial VW-Audi-Porsche nexus that had also given us the two versions of the 914. Due to internal politics, a fear that the car would be too expensive to produce and the energy crisis, VW cancelled the project at the last minute. Porsche bought it back and released it in MY1977 to replace the 912E. It was an instant hit.
In November 1974, still close to the OPEC scare, Porsche took a gamble on the future and revived the 928 project. In 1977 it was launched to the public at the Geneva Motor Show. While the non-911-derived styling of the 924 could be excused as a continuation of the non-911-derived styling of the 914, the 928 had committed the inexcusable.
It was nothing like the 911.
Here was a four-place, water-cooled, front-engined piece of blasphemy. Under the hood was a 16v 4.5 litre V8 producing 177kW in euro spec and 163kW in US spec driving the rear wheels. A transaxle helped this car achieve an almost 50/50 weight distribution. A five speed manual and MB derived automatic (3, then 4 speed) were available; with 80% of 928s sold being auto, you have some idea to whom this car ultimately appealed. One interesting feature was the inclusion of the Weissach Axle, a basic rear-wheel steering system which increased stability when braking into a corner. Brock Yates, reporting for C&D, had this to say; ‘I can’t remember driving a car with more perfect ergonomics. The steering wheel and instrument pad adjust as a unit, and the pedals can be moved to accommodate the short. The engine is gorgeous–the best possible marriage of German and American technical acumen. There’s torque all over the place, and it stays smooth all the way to the red-line. The 928 is the fulfillment of an old enthusiast’s dream–the sports-racing car tamed for use on the street.’ With only 61,056 sold between 1978 and 1995, it appears the Porschistas weren’t listening.
This car was as unconventional in its appearance as the 356 and 911 were in theirs. The first series–the 928 with no appended initials (gold example above) was to my eyes the best. Pictured above is the next evolution, the 1980-commenced 928S. Changes under the hood included enlargement to 4.7 litres, and Bosch L-Jetronic replacing the K-version. Externally, the telephone dial wheels were swapped for a smoother-looking set. Front and rear spoilers were added to improve stability for this super-slippery shape. A body coloured side strip was added for the Beverley Hilton car park.
Further design changes were to be applied. Don’t be fooled by the colour here, this above example is the 5.0 litre 928 S4, which can be discerned by the much larger rear appendage and a deeper front dam. The original distinctive rear lights were also updated for this model. I shot these two within weeks of each other, finding two of the same colour in Melbourne. Go figure.
Originally I planned a piece similar to Paul’s seminal article on the influence of the Pininfarina Florida. The 928 is perhaps the most influential automotive design of the late 20th Century, but the list of cars that owe something of their appearance to it is too long. That jelly-mould shape was speaking it’s own new language, astonishing considering this was essentially a 1973 design. Body coloured and contoured front and rear bumpers are now the lingua franca of car styling. The proportioning was beautifully balanced with its own idiosyncracies. As Jason Shafer’s favourite Shakespearean declaims; I like big butts and I cannot lie. Other curious features include the pop-forward exposed headlights in the style of the Lamborghini Miura, which were also to distinguish the 924-derived 968.
In 1984, a longer wheelbase 942 was presented to Ferry Porsche on his 75th birthday. Three years later, this one-off was changed from green to Melbourne Crimson, and converted to clapdoor design with two rear-hinged units aiding entry to the rear. Hm. I think the less said about the Panamera in this ode, the better.
The last picture for this article was a tough one. Above is the Alfa Romeo Zagato Zeta of 1983. If there is enough encouragement from the commentary, I will post a pic of the Nordstadt widened and lengthened Golf with 928 internals.
With the recession of my hairline, I am now much more circumspect about how I spend my automotive dollar. My rule-of-thumb is now to spend half of my availables on the purchase, and keep half for any anticipated and unanticipated attention. Were I to buy a Porsche 928, it would be only a quarter of my cash sitting on the hood. I don’t know anyone who’s bought one of these on the second-hand market, but when they are available at beater prices expect previous owners to have applied beater standards of care.
Still, I think the Porsche 928 is a fantastic piece of automotive sculpture and one of the most important designs of last century.
I like it but kill the 4 door model with fire in case it lays eggs
Well said.
Too late… the gestation period was a long one, but unfortunately the Panamera is reality.
You got that right!… Guy down the road has a Panamera, thats exactly what it looks like…..nice catch.
I might be the only one on Earth but if I could buy any modern Porsche currently in production I’d take a Panamera. All the performance you could want with the flexibility of a family car.
Of course, I’d have to have twice as much money than I paid for it to fix the rolling grenade, but that’s always been the story with Porsches.
Panamera? Just a five-door hatch, like my Mazda 3, but bigger, faster, and more luxurious, none of which I have need of.
Too true, Gem. There was a LWB mooted during full size mock-up time. Sort of a shooting brake and similar to the original version of the 942. I’ll see if I can dig up a picture.
The 928 to the Porsche faithful was the Corvette of Porsches with its V8 up front and water cooling. I think the take rate on the automatic version would also confirm the biases of Porsche lovers.
There is nothing more enjoyable than to show up at a vintage European car show with your 928 or (in my case) 924 and park it in line with all the 911’s. And then watch one or two of the more rediculously wired 911 owners immediately meeting with the show’s organizers to request (if they’re being polite, there was one time when they were definitely not) that an additional Porsche class be added so as not to sully the ranks of the REAL Porsches.
And have a quite giggle when, invariably, the organizers remind that that that’s a REAL Porsche, too. Just don’t expect friendly conversation with some of your neighbors that day.
I find it interesting that I’ve almost never run into this attitude from 356 owners. Seemingly, to them, if it says Porsche on the hood, welcome. (Of course, I’ve yet to see Cayenne’s or Panamera’s at car show, yet.) Only the 911 crowd seem to get bent out of shape.
I wonder what those 911 owners would say when you show up in one of these. (Photo: Wikipedia)
I’ve often wondered about that, too.
Here’s a question. Does anybody know if Mustang IIs get treated that way if parked in a line of Falcon platform to Fox platform Mustangs at a show? I know a few Mustang specialty warehouses that act like the years 1974 to 1978 never happened. They literally skip from parts for a 1973 to parts for a 1979.
http://video.adultswim.com/family-guy/check-with-poland.html
Surprise everybody. Drive the Porsche tractor and ask two friends to come along with these.
A classic Lamborghini:
And, of course, a classic Ferrari:
I saw exactly this at Cars and Coffee a few years ago, a guy drove in on his tractor and parked it with the 911s.
Found it.
This was a fantastic car killed by the ignorance of 911 owners, because it wasn’t doing things like they had always been done, guess what, that’s called progress, people weren’t bled by barbers anymore either once better medical procedures were invented, but try to explain that to a 911 owner.
I think this car was really killed by the fact that it said Porsche but cost near Ferrari money to maintain. There’s a reason the 924/944/968 are worth more on the used market.
Ive been watching these on Ebay the early ones go cheap but the later s4 models still bring big bucks.
Road & Track Buyers Guide 79 (base prices)
924 $13,950
911SC $20,775
928 $29,775
930 $38,500
Alfa GTV $10,495
AMV8 $55,000
AMC Pacer $4,699
Avanti II $17,670
BMW 635CSi $26,770
Seville $15,646
Camaro $4,677
Corvette $10,220
280ZX $11,599
308GTB $37,348
308GT4 $35,346
Jag XJS $25,000
Silhouette $40,000
Countach $80,000
Esprit S2 $27,000
Elite $29,046
Khamsin $42,587
RX7 $6,395
MB SLC $34,760
Firebird $4,825
Camargue $110,000
Typing those out, I can’t believe a Camaro was cheaper than the Pacer. Maybe it was those 928 looks…
Makes me wonder what exactly you got in a base model, no options added Camaro in ’79.
+1
Do the 911 traditionalists have the same reaction to 996 and later water-cooled 911s? Or Boxsters and Cayennes?
I’m an air-cooled 911 guy and do not like the 996 and later 911s.
Although the exterior silhouette is similar the water-cooled cars come off different. The early 996s were especially bad with their flat sides and fried egg headlamps, they looked like platypuses. A proper 911 is supposed to have hips.
Part of the charm of an air-cooled 911 comes from the classic smells and sounds which were cleansed out of the later cars.
Things like the instrument panel and exterior door handles were iconic, purposeful and never got old. The overly-styled meters in the water-cooled 911s already look dated as do the SUV door handles. Door handles are so important!!!
You can track a stock air-cooled 911 because it was over-built and has a dry sump oiling system. You will blow an engine in a water-cooled 911 if you treated it like that.
Then there are the quality issues in the newer cars, the most famous being the IMS bearing failure.
I don’t dislike the Boxster or Cayman because those cars are not trying to be 911s and are very fun to drive, more fun in fact than a newer 911.
I think most if not all air-cooled 911 guys like 356s. Some, like me, like 944s and 928s. I guess that makes me more of an old Porsche guy.
I’ve always liked the 928 but remember it most for being the first exotic car that you could buy for $5,000 used. The depreciation was phenomenal like you see now with 740s, SL600s, etc. The reason had to do with the high cost of complex model-specific replacement parts and the electrical system.
Most car guys my age have at least one friend who bought a $5,000 928 and thought “what a deal!” only to find out it cost several thousand dollars to change out a clutch. I love the way they look but would never want to own one.
I think the 996 has its merits, I actually prefer the egg and turbo look to the later startled ellipses. But I couldn’t agree more on everything you else said. One problem for Porsche with the Boxster and Cayman is that, on paper, they should be the best performing of the bunch. But for some reason, they’re not…
“A proper 911 is supposed to have hips.”
Too bad about those swb 901s then…
Porsche had the same problem with the 914 where if they used the same engine as in the 911 the 914 would outperform the flagship. So the 914 got the “T” engine, a detuned one at that if I remember correctly.
You hear a lot about the accounting disaster that forced the 914/6 pricing up so high over the 914/4 and how that high price contributed to the 914/6’s early demise. I think that high pricing was intentional, again to protect the 911.
I believe the engine size in the new 911 is 3.4 liters whereas the Boxster/Cayman are limited 3.2. Same reason, without that the lighter mid-engine cars would outperform the flagship.
Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings John if you have a skinny 996. I don’t care for the SWB 911s either. I’m sure the decision makers at Porsche used that logic on the early 996, smooth sides “just like the original 911” and better aerodynamics to boot.
It’s funny I like the 70s on up 911s better because of the hips but always preferred the 914 without the GT flares.
Is there a retrofit kit to fix the cars with those awful fried egg headlamps? They sure don’t look right.
The Panamera car show is every grocery store lot and traffic light in southern Florida.
Perfectly said! You have to imagine, that there are just around 250 Sharks of the first series (’77-’82 240 hp) running on german roads. AT most Porsche meetings, you see more 911s on one single place. The 928 was a unique statement of automotive design. I am really happy to drive one of those (1980 Euro 5Speed Pascha) – and one of the great 924S as well (1988 160 hp) 🙂
I can’t help thinking that Porsche didn’t do it any favors by releasing it after the 924. They don’t exactly look alike, but there’s enough similarity that it would have been better if the 924 had been seen as the budget 928 rather than coming out first and making the 928 look like a chubby V-8 924.
Yep, its harder to move up than down. Mercedes learned that with Maybach. If the 928 had been released first, the halo effect would have applied down to the 924. It might then have had the chance to develop into other vehicles; but then if you look at their range now, it looks more 928 than 911.
I am another who has always been smitten by the looks:of the 928. Perhaps it’s because I have never been under the 911s spell, so it is easier for me to approach this car on it’s own merit.
This was an incredibly modern design that was conceived a decade or more before the look became mainstream.
I assume you’ve never driven one. Do so. Just make sure you’ve got your wallet with you if you do. They drive even better than they look. I’ve come close on more than one occasion to buying one, years before I got my 924. The hold-off has always been the same: automatic transmission.
It’s even more difficult to find a 928 with a manual for sale than it is a C4 Corvette manual. I’ve come to the belief in both crowds the true enthusiasts for the car have manuals, where the automatic versions are sold to someone looking for a new toy for a couple of years. Then, after boredom sets in, off to another owner.
Maybe they should make another class for slushbox owners….
Called steerers
Sarcasm: off
I think the original 928 owners were more like S class mercedes owners they were looking for a sporty grand touring car and the auto was fine. I know a few people who are the original owners of 928s one is a 1993 the other is 1988 both are in mint condition but both are autos. One owner is DR the other is an executive at a distribution company. The both love their cars and could afford new ones but never would.
I loved 911’s as a kid but here in CT there are as many 911s as corvettes (maybe more) so they don;t seem that special any more. I almost bought a 944 and have driven a few and like them but now I think the Porsche I would most likely to buy would be a 928 with a manual you can find them but they bring almost twice what an auto brings.
Cheers, JPCavanagh. I like the 911, but not slavishly. Something fantastic happened between the late sixties and mid seventies to make the 911 the fanboi-est car on earth. I always thought they’d planned the 911 through to 3 litres at inception, so I was surprised to read about P’s attitude to the 911 late sixties.
Don, this is a terrific article. This has always been my favorite variety of Porsche, although I freely admit, other than it being water cooled, I didn’t know a lot about what distinguished it until now. Maybe it’s the unconventionality of it in the Porsche hierarchy that is so appealing. Or maybe its that big old butt.
I like to think of the 928 as J-Lo in ‘Out of Sight’. Sophisticated and sassy. And so good from behind.
If it was good enough for Tony Montana…
Any Porsche is out of my budget. However, If it weren’t I’d prefer the 911, because it is Ferdinand Porsche’s baby.
But I do like the shape of the 928 as well. But it is a Porsche AG, the company’s baby. I think it would have been less disdained if it had been created by another company or badge. I.e. it could have been Audi’s first supercar or a Saab. I think Porsche purists would have taken another look…..when it got bigger in their rear view mirror.
There is a “Wheeler Dealer” episode on the 928 which gives a lot of insight. I am sure you find it on Youtube.
Before the front-engined water-cooled Porsches, I always thought of them as ‘fancy VWs’; and now they literally are! And waaay over-priced. When the 928 came out I thought “German Corvette”. The 928S4 is a world-class supercar and within reach budget-wise of most folks. The belt driven interference engine scares the bejesus out of me, however, I’m still considering one just to scare the neighbors.
Very simple solution. Find out what a local, competent, independent garage will charge for replacing the belt (of course, do the water pump, seals, etc. at the same time) and factor it in to the purchase price. Then buy the car, make the appointment, and take it in immediately for the work.
Then relax. Assuming the 928 is as well built as a 924 (and I’ve yet to read anything that contradicts that assumption), once you’ve got the basics done, you’ve got a wonderful long-term play toy.
I’m fortunate in that the front-engined Porsches sold very well in the Richmond area when they were new, and there’s a local Euro garage who’s staff is well versed on both the 4 and 8 cylinder versions. And charge a reasonable labor rate, roughly the same as the local Chevrolet dealer. It makes a difference in long term ownership.
And if they were overpriced, then every Porsche made was overpriced. Funny that, there’s a lot of people who can eloquently argue that point of view with conviction. And not necessarily be wrong.
But you get something for all that overpriced. While I enjoy my Solstice, I’ll freely admit that it’s a crude kart compared to the 924S it replaced. If only the Porsche had been a convertible . . . . . . . .
You could have gotten a 944 or 968 cabriolet for I am sure no more money than you spent on the Solstice. I really like the 968 and they seem to be very hardy if you judge by the number of models for sale with well over 100k miles, I’ve seen some with over 200k that still look nice. I have considered it many times, but the 911 is my real dream girl so I don’t think I can settle. Another good thing about the 944/968 vs, the 928… the LSx conversion kit is much more difficult to fit under the hood of the 928. The 968 has a higher hood (or lower front subframe, can’t remember which) but apparently it drops right in.
I looked at a 968 cabriolet, it was my first choice for a replacement. Unfortunately, it was an automatic which really killed a lot of the car for me. 968’s aren’t common in the Richmond area, but I’d definitely trade the Solstice in on one if its in as nice a shape as the one I drove . . . . . and has a manual. And that one would be a long term keeper.
I’d rather have a 968 than a Boxster, although the latter is quite acceptable.
I think the 968 is the unprettiest. But I hear its the best track racer.
Most of these for the U.S. market are automatics; the 5-speeds had a bear of a clutch. I’m lazy; I’ll take the slushbox.
Any idea how much the basic mechanical updating ie the cam belt, water pump, etc., will cost? Seeing that one can pickup a ‘decent’ 928 for $7k or so, if the updating is like $2-3k, then one can have a driver for $10k??????
Although 300hp is somewhat wimpy by today’s standard, but in real world, still a nice touring car 2-3 days trips. Hell, I will change the all belts, all hoses, all pumps (fuel, water etc), do a major tuneup, new rotor/pad, new springs and dampers, new tires for say $8k? still the cost would be like $15k or so
It can’t be true, can it?
Don’t know the prices on a 928, but for a comparison, replacing the cam belt, water pump, belt idlers and a couple of engine seals that were weeping on my 924S ran me $2000.00 four years ago. I can’t see the price on a 928 being more than double that, probably less than twice as much. And, unlike a Ferrari, once its fixed, its fixed.
928s came in “non interference” and “interference” flavors. The SOHC 2v engines are non interference while the 4v engines found in the S4, GT, and GTI are interference type engines.
When the 928 came out in the late 70’s I thought it was butt-ugly especially the headlights pointing to the sky. That said, even back then I had to give Porsche props for making the best looking interior of the day so I was very torn between either disliking the car overall or liking it (like it mattered for 14 year old’s opinion).
Funny thing happened though…over time and while the car may have had a few minor appearance changes, my opinion of the exterior of the car started changing to by the end of its life in the early 90’s, I thought it was one of the best looking cars around.
To me, the 928 was always a car way ahead of its time
+1 on best interior. My fave pic from the research but I couldn’t make it fit.
I LOVE the op art interior those had, I think when I first saw those they officially solidified my appreciation for the 928.
As a yoot in the ’80s, I thought these were exotic supercars. I guess I still do. Can I get one in that Kawasaki-ish green that some 911s used to wear?
Sorry, Capn, best I can do.
Thanks, that is just pretty. And I’m imagining that cool neighbor-jarring sound from here.
Ahh! The days when cars came in colour!
While I would never own one due to parts/repair costs, I did get to drive one once. Fun, fun car. Always considered these to be like children, great as long as they belong to someone else!
Who’s the U-Boat commander?
I never saw anything wrong with these, part of that may have been because of the one Tom Cruise drove in “Risky Business” which I saw at an impressionable age. But I really wasn’t a Porsche fan at the time, like most kids I preferred the Countach for my posters and school folders.
I have grown to like these now just for the impressive engineering, unique design, and the risk they took producing it. Were I in the market for an 80’s exotic, it would be on my short list.
As a very young (single digits) car-brochure collector, an undated but early 928 brochure passed into my hands. Besides its’ glossy heft, many, many pictures and selling of the Porsche myth the first two things that jumped out at me were the wild ’70s seat patterns except for one picture of the ugliest imaginable dark brown vinyl seats (it didn’t occur to me at that point that real leather car upholstery was even a thing) and the taillights looked like those of an RTS bus.
Oddly, I didn’t notice the resemblance to an AMC Pacer until it was pointed out to me years later. I still like the Pacer’s proportions better, but the 928’s bumper integration and trim details certainly “sells” the modernity of the shape better than the full-Brougham AMC.
Yes, wow, I thought I was the only one that made the 928-RTS taillight connection, I know they aren’t the same, but its interesting that I also thought the taillights looked like the GMC RTS lights.
Thanks for this article, Don.
I think I might add that the 928’s very well integrated styling and strong influence on other cars has the unintended effect of allowing people to pass it off as generic. It wouldn’t be the first time; I think people can recognize character, but not everyone can recognize good design. Other than the headlights, there’s little of the 928’s shape a casual (emphasis on casual) observer can take away and remember when not in the car’s presence. It’s a too clean and sophisticated, whereas the 911’s upright canopy and headlights leave a very lasting impression. Even the 924/944 had some crisp edges and blocky taillights, making the 928 seem so subtle in comparison. By the time I could really observe the world around me, it wasn’t very famous and many other cars had adopted its curvaceous style. I think it was simply too ahead of its time and that’s a shame.
Mind you, the car was already 5 years old when I was born, and the first time I ever saw it was in the parody Leonard Part 6–not exactly a flattering context.
Thanks Perry. It’s interesting to consider the 928 changed perception over time. When launched, it was so different. Now, it does sit back in the landscape.
I noticed the same thing about the Fiat 130 Coupe. People who weren’t really interested in cars thought it was just a squarebox Ford Falcon.
Terrific post! I’m neither a Porsche expert, nor snob, so I can look at their cars with an open mind and I like this car. I’m tasteless enough to like even the Panamera.
The Porsche / Studebaker proposal would make an interesting post itself.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/cto/4321583441.html
Dirt cheap manual trans version. Still looks like a money pit to me, but what a great car when it’s working right! Maybe with the 25% purchase price; 75% rehab/maint split suggested by Don someone could make it a reasonable classic to own.
Yeah, if it weren’t 1000 miles away . . . . .
Just how expensive are these to maintain? Are they like Audi of those years? or Bimmer V12?
From what I’ve learned, better than either of them.
Actually, all the front engined Porsches were reasonably reliable. The catch is that the parts are expensive, there are certain jobs that a skilled shade tree mechanic doesn’t touch (cam belt) without a good shop to work in, so all too many that are available for sale have lots of deferred maintenance.
Which is the factual basis for the “impossible money pit, nay, black hole” reputation. Find one that been actually cared for, and keep the same level of care up during your tenure, and you’re talking the most practical exotic you can buy. This isn’t some Italian exotic that demands $5k/year in maintenance for a well cared example.
Thanks Syke. I think the low resale value cause the deffered maintenance. The exterior design may not be to some folks’ liking, but the interior is very nice, certainly a lot easier on my eyes than the 911’s.
I’m one of the few that prefers the facelifted model over the original. The red color on the first car looks stunning!
Don, thanks for this fine addition to our 928 coverage, by focusing on its design. I’d forgotten about that Zagato Zeta, but have not forgotten the 928 Golf. Who could, having ever seen pictures of it?
I vividly remember that car…I thought it was so outrageous. I think it was in Road & Track, but perhaps C&D.
Thanks Paul.
It is remiss of me, but I didn’t see your articles on the 928. In future, I will do deeper diligence by using the google panel top left. Are all articles features in the 8 category index?
Or, the lazy approach is to Google Curbside Classic and whatever make or model you want to find. Those usually rank very high on the search results.
The “Search CC by google” box is on the top right, and is the most efficient way to search our total content archives. And the full CCs (like yours) go in the CC Portals (when we get to it) 🙂
I assumed you had seen my CC, because yours complements so well. And the subject deserves multiple angles. Frankly, my CC on the 928 was one of my rush jobs; I didn’t have a lot of time to give it that day.
I have to say something else.
Before I joined in, I came across CC three times when searching various cars. I bounced myself out each time when I saw panthers in the homepage.
Then I came across your Florida article. From my reading, that is the single best piece ever on the subject. Instead of the abstract notions and disembleuvatives found in most car design writing, you expressed it with the strength of street knowledge. I would recommend that article before any other to the novice or to the expert. It is just that good. So, Paul, I’ve decided to hang around.
You only have yourself to blame.
Don’t add more to my my guilt complex 😉
I’m thrilled to have you around; it’s always a boost to see new energy show up, especially when mine is a feeling a bit droopy.
I’m trying to figure out how I had time to write some of those early articles…I must have let a lot of other stuff slide. Yes; looking out from my window at several unfinished building projects, that was it.
But now with everyone else here, I can hope to get them wrapped up.
One more thing.
Your team of editors and contributors bring first rate scholarship and story telling to their subjects. The commentariat is both pin sharp and very entertaining.
This place is the best conversation on the planet.
Cheers, all.
I always had a thing for these, maybe it was the film exposure to these in Scarface and Risky Business, they always had an exotic, sinister sort of vibe. The scene in Risky Business where Tom Cruise and Bronson Pinchot take the 928 out for an evening joy ride is always engrained in my memory.
These cars were expensive and exotic, 0-60 in the 6’s, 140mph top speed and priced in the mid to upper $30K bracket in the late 70’s when an Eldorado was like $18 grand, the 928 was just under the Ferrari 308’s $40K or so price. You had to be very wealthy to own a 928 brand new. It was a such a modern looking car for 1978, think about what OTHER 1978 cars look like, this looks like something from 2001: A Space Odyssey in comparison.
I thought it would be you and me against the hordes on this, but there was no need to unsheathe my sword. Now it is time to eat, drink and be merry.
HAHA
Funny how the Studebaker proposal was turned down by DeLorean whose own car design had to be redone by someone who KNEW what they were doing to make it work.
From my reading, it seems that Studebaker were specific in asking for a front-engined car, and Porsche were adamant it should be rear. They delivered four prototypes to the US, 2 air- and 2 water-cooled.
All rear engined.
I’ve always thought that the FC3S (second generation) RX-7 was more influenced by the 928 than by the 944 as is usually stated. The only real resemblance I see between the 944 and FC RX-7 is in the box-flared fenders, which I though both received due to the influence of IMSA and other sports car racing, where the racing variants of the 924 and SA22C RX-7 got similar flares. The greenhouse of the 944 was still more obviously an older design like the SA RX-7, with exposed frames, while the FC RX-7 had “aircraft” style doors similar to the 928. Though the FC eschewed C-pillars for the bubble rear glass look.
The 928 was amazingly ahead of its time, that’s for sure.
I’m one of those who always loved 911s, but loved the 928 probably as much. I remember the first one I saw, and was smitten and obsessed for many years. I was about 13, at a Bar Mitzvah I think, and there was one on the parking lot. Probably October 1977, so it had to have been just when it was introduced. I think I was practically drooling. It was that gold color, with the crazy checkerboard seats. This car was just way ahead of its time. I love the purity of the original, but I think they did a good job with the updates over the years.
If I had ever gotten a Porsche, it would have been a 928.
did anyone see Jeremy on UK Top Gear destroying one of these??
he picked one up somewhere in the UK (think for 1,000 quid) .. and thrashed it to death ..it was low on coolant and oil and eventually running on 5 ..but they continued thrashing it on the track until the engine disintegrated ..
..that was sad ..i don’t like to see stuff like that .. it is not something anyone who appreciates machinery would want to do
Those are the times I hate Top Gear. It was obvious he bought the car for the weak engine. Thanks a lot for keeping the misconceptions going.
I found it entertaining but I know not to take Top Gear seriously like a lot of people do(weather fans or foes). Plus I was quite fond of the furniture they made from the parts 🙂
And let’s not dilute ourselves, that car was destined for the scrap heap anyway, like most of the “cheap” cars they get. Maybeit could have been saved but odds are it would have met it’s end by now anyway. I’ve personally come across 5 928s at the local-u-pulls in recent years and regularly see rough ones listed on craigslist for less than your average 17 year old’s used Camry would cost. Shame yes, but I see anyone stepping up and saving them either.
Speaking of shows, did anyone catch Mythbusters where they cut the entire bodyshell off one and remount it backwards to see how aero it was from the rear? That was much more irritating to me.
I saw that one, they also drove a tank over one on one of those Richard Hammond destruction but not Top Gear shows.
…haha ..Mythbusters also cut one in half and drove around a bit in half a car powered and steered by a total of two whole wheels ..crazy 🙂
928 car of year 1978 now go for £3000. 911s £20000 and up. . Not real Porches?..wright. tell that to the man that just brought a Caynne!
Back when I was a kid, I had a substitute doctor who heard I was a car guy. He was somehow loosely related to my family, and he had an ’84 or ’85 928 with a manual, and he took me and my dad for a ride. It was dark gray, and he wound that thing up to almost 90 on a back road. Fun times, especially for an 8-year-old. Dr. Bob, I called him.
Dr Robert, huh? There’s other names for that…
I’m pretty sure for the first few years of these the V8 wasn’t an interference engine. If the T-belt broke it only left you stranded. These are mighty crowded under the hood, they have a front and rear evaporator for the AC… I think I would take my chances with an XJ6…
Porsche has the advantage that the engine doesn’t corrode itself to the point of not takeapart-able. Dunno much about 928, but I think the heads come off after the bolts are taken out. Jaguar guys have anything to say?
I’ve long toyed with the idea of buying a poorly maintained early example with a grenaded engine and rebuilding it with a Renegade Hybrids ( TM ) Chevy smalblock swap kit.
What’s the deal about 928’s rear suspension? So it had some sort of rear steering built into it? How does it help in real world?
I admittedly do consider the rear engined air cooled format to be the true legitimate Porsche layout but I love the 928 regardless, and frankly the 911 died to me when the 996 came out because if I wanted a smoothed and sleekened Porsche with an water cooled engine it would be a 928!
The design was definitely ahead of it’s time, that’s for sure. The detractors all love to point out the pacer inspired greenhouse and sky facing headlights but big whoop, the 911 has a beetle inspired greenhouse and the coolest Lamborghini ever used sky facing headlights! The only details that really date the 928 are it’s wheels and running lights(particularly on the earlier ones), otherwise they could pass for something from the mid 00s. I’ve seen a few with 996 wheels and those really bring it up to date!
Let me try to put it in English. With regular front wheel steering the pivot point is on the rear axle. So the rear wheels don’t exactly follow the front wheels, they make a tighter radius than the front wheels.
With four-wheel steering the rear wheels will follow the front wheels in their tracks. You could say like on rails. In fact the pivot point is in the center of the the wheel base and the car can build higher lateral g-forces.
Of course that is only the case if the rear wheels turn out by the same amount as the front wheels turn in. The engineer can play with the ratios.
Mechanical (active) systems are rather expensive because they require two steering racks. Honda has done it (I think) and Mazda took a different approach: they used rubber bushings that yielded to the lateral force and thus passively induced some degree of rear wheel steering. I believe that was in some MX3 models.
Isn’t this how Porsche did it as well?
What about the 928?
The 928 had a passive rear steering system from the Weissach axle, where the forward pivot bushing of the trailing arm is replaced by a short link, reducing oversteer according to Porsche, but not a rear 4WS steering system like Honda offered on the Prelude.
I have an excellent diagram of its functioning from an old book on suspension design
Rear-Wheel steering? Check out the SAAB 96, with the rear axle like a skateboard axle – steers rear wheels as car leans.
…reprised the AMC Pacer—badly. Good goats, it’s hideous!
I love love love the 928. I think only the 993 and 964 surpass it on my list of favorite Porsches.
An acquaintance of mine owns one. Actually, he recently asked me to make some work on the engine, which presumably has a blown head gasket.
It is difficult to grasp that this car was developed in mid-1970s, to me it looks pretty much early 1990s. Unfortunately, that is definitely _not_ a compliment for a car, if you ask me…
Regarding the bargain basement prices of many 928’s, or other so-called unpopular Porsches, remember there is so such thing a a bargain basement Porsche or a bargain basement Ferrari, for that matter. Repair part costs and repair labor cost are the great equalizers.
This brings to mind a commentary by Ed Mayo in a PCA (Porsche Club of America) posting about long time Porsche dealer giant and 356 parts guru, Chuck Stoddard:
“So you want to buy a 914 (or a 928). As with any other Porsche model you’ll need to first decide where you want to enter the market: at the “parts car” level, the “pristine original” level, or somewhere in between. I have never forgotten a statement made by Chuck Stoddard back in the 1980s: “All Porsches cost the same.” You can buy in at the bottom of the market and spend the money to bring it to the top, or just spend more initially and buy in at the top. Either way, you’ll spend the roughly the same amount of money.”
So to all of the dreamers out there: “All Porsches Cost the Same”. Beware of the so-called bargains, the basket cases filled with hidden mechanical and body sins needing ultimately costly salvation. The” cheap” 928 can become an extraordinary money pit.
A well running, maintained 928 is a surprisingly modern, well poised enjoyable driving car, a true GT, once upon a time seemingly large, but now made to appear comparatively petite by the new, current 911’s .
Cheers.
German IROC Camero.
Heavy. clunky, leaky, melted chocolate bar interior, and a CORK oil pan gasket. No real aftermarket and many NLA parts.
That said, I’ll have a 1978 petrol Blue with cork interior, pasha inserts on the seat. Euro model (better gearing) or early US with the adjustable from the drivers seat headlight raise/lower button (later killed by DOT mid year).
You’re mistaken; headlamp levelling controls accessible to the driver are not (and never have been) illegal in the United States. Not required, but not prohibited.
That said, their purpose is widely misunderstood by Americans who have little experience with them. They’re to lower the headlamps’ aim to compensate for cargo and passenger load that tends to tip the headlamps up, not to raise the lamps arbitrarily. Nobody in North America cares much about headlamp aim, so they’re kind of pointless here. 🙁
Well that is what I was told by people at Porsche back inna day. Good to know!