curbside 604 shots by Roger Carr
(first posted 7/28/2016) The Peugeot 604 story is a rather sad one. It was perhaps France’s (certainly Peugeot’s) last good shot at beating (or at least equaling) the German luxury brands at their game, who were ascendant right during the 604’s life span (1975-1985). The 604 was widely acknowledged by reviewers as having a number of superior qualities, and it won numerous comparison test against the best sedans from Germany and Great Britain. Yet it was a a failure in the marketplace; only 153k were produced over its ten years. In the US, it was a similar story, although it was even more of an outsider. Why?
To answer that question, we have to start with what really was the 604? An ambitious new über-Peugeot, designed to compete with Mercedes S Class, BMW 7-Series and the Jaguar XJ-6? Not really, despite the fact that it ended up besting all three of them in certain qualities. In reality, the 604 was a tarted-up 504, using as much of its body inner structure and chassis as possible, except for a minor 2.325 inch wheelbase extension at the rear to enhance rear seat legroom. It shared a major part of the 504’s floorpan, bulkhead, doors, and suspension. Its handsome new exterior skin was of course styled by Pininfarina, and it evoked the slab-sided 404 more than in passing.
Peugeot tried to compete with the best on the cheap, and given that, it’s remarkable how well the 604 turned out. But its shortcomings were mostly the result of that too, as we’ll look at later. It also explains how Peugeot managed to make a modest profit on the 604, despite the low production numbers.
Given all of that, the 604 is a testament to the very deep superior qualities of the 504. Its precise power-assisted rack and pinion steering (still uncommon then in European luxury cars) had excellent “feel” and gave it the best steering at the time. The Peugeot long-travel suspension gave it a ride that was clearly superior to the Germans, even the new W126 S-Class Mercedes, and was consistently judged to be the equal of the world’s two best riding cars then: the Citroen CX and the Jaguar XJ-6. August company.
I don’t have ready numbers for how the 604 competed with the other major luxury cars in Europe in terms of price, but in the US, the 604 was significantly cheaper. In its first year in the US (1977), the 604 V6 was priced at $10,990, compared to $16,616 for a MBZ 280E; $19,411 for a (W116) 280SE; $12,495 for a BMW 530i; $21,365 for a 733i; and $15,000 for a Jaguar XJ6. By its last year in the US market (1984), the 604 Turbo Diesel was $20,885; the MBZ 300D was $31,490; the W126 300SD was $39,500, the BMW 524TD was $24,560; the 735i was $36,335, and the Jaguar XJ6 was $30,500. Yes, these cars all mostly doubled in price during those seven years, which included the highest inflation rates in modern US history.
The point is that the ultimate “French Mercedes” was selling for substantially less than the real thing. Not that it helped much, although the 604 Turbo Diesel did get a little final bump in sales during the second energy crisis, when everyone in LA wanted a Mercedes diesel. The 604 was a much more affordable alternative, and there were a fair number running around SoCal for a few years.
One of the very few remaining California 604 TDs was recently caught by TheProfessor47 and posted at the Cohort (above). He left this comment:
According to a recent Autoweek article (autoweek.com/article/classic-cars/ten-diesel-cars-time-fo…), there are believed to be no more than 30(!) 604’s in running condition in the United States, and “just a handful” of them diesels. If I had known it was so rare, I would have taken better pictures – unfortunately, I only had my phone with me at the time, and these are all I have.
Needless to say, I still hold out hope of finding a curbside 604, but so far, no luck. One of these days, in a tiny hamlet in Oregon…
So just what were the 604’s weaknesses? The PRV V6 engine is a bit of a disputed factor. It was generally rated quite high in European tests, although the de-smogged version for the US, still without fuel injection, was not really stellar. Adequate; at best. Certainly not in BMW territory. The turbo-diesel four was in many ways a bolder move, the first turbo-diesel available in Europe, where Mercedes had not made its TD available yet. It only had some 90-95 hp, but its torque curve was fat, and it worked well in the 604’s role as a long distance tourer, especially with the five speed manual and some appreciation of how to maximize its torque curve, which was something of a new thing for Europeans, so used to small high-winding gas engines. The 604 TD really pioneered the concept of a luxury diesel sedan in Europe, but it was soon eclipsed by the more powerful 5 cylinder Mercedes turbo-diesels.
Ergonomics and interior details were perhaps the biggest shortcomings, and directly attributable to the 604’s modest development budget. The 504’s bus-like steering wheel angle was consistently critiqued, which compromised the driving position. Ergonomic shortcomings like poorly placed controls and not exactly stellar materials and components in the dash and ancillaries were noted. These kind of things tended to be generally better thought out and implemented by the Germans. This dash, instruments, console and its controls are not quite up to Mercedes, BMW or Jaguar levels, at least not by the 80s, by which time significant progress was being made in these areas by others. The 604 would have needed a major interior upgrade to stay competitive.
It was in part a cultural reflection; the French placed a huge priority on ride quality and comfort, as well as handling, and not so much on the details like noted above. And the 604’s quality in several small but noticeable ways was not up to snuff either. The Germans obsessed on the ergonomic details, controls, materials, etc., and what makes the difference between a true premium brand and a wanna’ be. The 604 just didn’t play that game well, but it did its French thing splendidly. But the world was moving inexorably to the German way of doing things.
The rear seat passengers would have nothing to complain about. Leg room was stellar, better than the the regular wheelbase S Class cars. And of course the ride was sublime, and the seats comfy. Maybe the 604 was best suited for being chauffeured in?
Well, that’s what the 604 Heuliez limousine was for.
Despite its strengths in comfort, the 604 was quite capable of high cornering speeds, despite its inherent propensity to lean in the typical French manner. In a 1975 Car magazine comparison, the 604 was found to be faster at cornering than the BMW 528i, and its roadholding the equal of the Jaguar XJ in the dry and superior in the wet. The 604 was deemed as more successful its intended role than the Jaguar overall. And that’s coming from a British magazine.
In a 1977 “Giant Test” by Car, the 604 beat the BMW 728i and Mercedes 280E. And in 1978, the 604 again bested the competition in another Car comparison, this time a Lancia Gamma and a Rover 2800 (SD). In other comparisons, the 604 always acquitted itself well, if not winning outright because of the minor quibbles previously mentioned. Its brakes were not always consistently top-notch either.
But the 604’s qualities that made it such a supremely comfortable high-speed and long-distance cruiser always came in for accolades, no matter the magazine or the reviewer. We posted a Road and Track review here recently, which also brought praise for those qualities, but American testers, like the public, could never quite be as effusive about the 604 as the Europeans. The 604 was typically compared to cars that cost 50-100% more, but that did not fully let the 604 off the hook for its near-luxury limitations. Nevertheless, R&T did find plenty to praise, and called it “something of a bargain in the rarefied world of imported luxury cars”.
But the 604 just couldn’t ignite the enthusiasm of the buyers, which is where it really counted. Premium brands were the hot new thing, on both sides of the Atlantic, and Peugeot just didn’t quite make the cut. It’s debatable if the 604 would have been anymore successful if its niggling shortcomings had been better resolved by more investment. Quite possibly not, and that would only have made the 604 less profitable. Perhaps Peugeot played it right, having seen the future already and holding back some; playing it safe. But the result is that the French automakers have never fielded a truly successful luxury car since the Citroen DS back in the 50s and early 60s, and even that was always a bit of an outsider too.
But for lovers of the brand, the 604 is rare treat; a classic Pininfarina design that has aged well, and the splendid chassis that gives it as fine of a ride in the world as any car, along with all the other Peugeot attributes. I used to have 604 cravings back in its day, although the US version, with its big bumpers, compulsory automatic and de-smogged V6 just didn’t quite cut it for my performance expectations. But a Euro-spec 604, with the injected V6 and five speed; now that would be something to still crave after.
Related reading:
Talbot Tagora: Never A Chrysler; Nearly A Peugeot Roger Carr
Peugeot 504 PN
The PRV V6 was certainly not liked by the Volvo crowd. Maybe they were just used to the abuse and neglect the B series 4 bangers could take?
It was also not loved in the Eagle Premiere.
I’ve nominated the PRV for Deadly Sin status just for the sheer amount of them that were all but stuffed into the couch cushions for contractual reasons by Chrysler, on top of those that inadequately powered the DeLorean because they were available.
Sir , you are wrong, Eagle Premier was a Renault 25 , not a Peugeot;
He was referring to the PRV engine, not the rest of the car.
The early PRV V6 wasn’t a great engine. The later, substantially overhauled one was far better. Though there were a million variants of each. I know the early Volvo ones, such as used in the 264 and the very early 760s, had problems with oiling among other things. Most of those issues were resolved with the second generation, so I’m not quite sure what the issues were in the Premier. (I always thought those cars’ main flaw was glass transmissions…)
“The Germans obsessed on the ergonomic details, controls, materials, etc., and what makes the difference between a true premium brand and a wanna’ be”
It is too bad the Germans did not obsess about making the electric system in their cars reliable. Only in a German car is replacing a window switch considered routine maintenance.
I like the look of the interior of the 604. With the exception of the odd place for switches(in front of the vents) and the fact that the dash board seems to block the passenger from getting air from that second bank of vents in the center, the interior looks pretty good. The shifter seems high enough that you don’t have to lean over to reach it and the radio, HVAC units are facing upwards toward the driver.
I like Peugeots as they are attractive and rugged. I wonder if it is easier for Pug owners in the USA to get parts and maintain their vintage Pugs now then it was when they were newer because of the internet?
I had to replace all the power window switches in my ’87 Jetta since they all failed. I had forgotten about that until I read your comment – thanks! One of the more minor things of many that went wrong on that car.
In the early 80s when I owned a relatively new 504, parts came from a dealer although that dealer may have been far away depending on where you lived. As an example, living in KC I had to order a side window from Knautz Motors in Chicago. Today parts are still available, either through an internet-assisted junkyard, the internet itself, or through a handful of guys who somehow still have access to whatever new part you need. I think parts have however become if anything cheaper, probably much cheaper than when they used to be purchased from a dealer.
Funny, the Peugeot dealer in eastern Maine was Snow’s Garage in Penobscot, a small coastal town. They’re still around! https://www.facebook.com/SnowsGarageInc/
The only reason I can think of for them to be there was there are lots of well-to-do summer people in the area.
Only in a German car? Perhaps. But in any Panther Ford, or the vast majority of late 90’s GM designs, the window regulator is routine maintenance. I know which of those two I’d rather replace frequently.
Of course you are going to have issue in all cars( I am able to replace window regulators in 86-2007 Taurus/Sables in my sleep)
I bring up German cars because German auto makers have a holier then thou attitude and their dealership mantra is that if something is wrong with your car then you(the owner) must have done it as these are fine automobiles.
Overpriced, unreliable and rubbish resale values. Three hallmarks of a German automobile.(yes VW owners are suing VW because the scandal has supposedly hurt resale values. BS!! VW’s have not had good resale values since the mid 1970’s so don’t blame the scandal for that)
What are you talking about?
I’ve owned 12 or more BMWs and one long term VW and I’ve never replaced a window regulator.
I got my 87 Jetta to 408,000km with only routine work and it was still working great when I sold it.
I’ve never owned a brand new German car, but BMW dealerships have always been good in sourcing parts and giving good service.
I’ll grant that the large luxury German cars plummet in value, but the 3-series generally holds it’s value well. Heck, e30s are appreciating rapidly.
I must say I think these look hot with those wheels and the european headlights. I somehow don’t remember most of the ones that I’ve seen here in the US looking as good. Peugeot (in my mind) over here is most associated as competition for Volvo and Saab and maybe Alfa Romeo back in the 80’s and probably considered just as quirky and slightly offbeat to most of the motoring public but not really “luxurious”, either in feel or, more importantly image.
In LA as a teenager our local Peugeot dealer was paired with Saab and later in college in San Luis Obispo that Peugeot Dealer (Grove Motors) also sold Saab and later Volvo (still does) if I’m remembering correctly.
Agreed. The US versions looked a bit off with their big bumpers and poorly integrated headlights.
That’s exactly it. It also seems like the ride height over here was higher but it could have been a visual effect of the wheels.
Awesome! I think the 604 was the first Peugeot I really noticed. I’m sure there were plenty of 504’s running around, but I didn’t tend to notice sedans then at age 9, 10 or 11. But in 1981, on the French side of St. Martin we came upon a 604 stuck in a mud pit on a dirt road and watched it get pulled out by a truck. I asked my dad what it was and he said, it’s the French Mercedes. I thought it was stylish and cool! At the time we had a 1981 300TD wagon and a 1978 230 gas sedan so I asked my dad why don’t we have one, and as I remember he sort of dismissed it as not as good. Looking back, and based on the recent discussion of the wet sleeve diesel maintenance requirements I have a new theory: the 504 wet sleeve diesel was too demanding maintenance-wise for Americans and tarnished Peugeot’s already deteriorating reliability reputation. Bargain or no, the 604 was an expensive car to buy if you were fearing that it might be unreliable.
From my recollection of the period, what killed Peugeot in the USA is almost 100% attributable to the dealer and distribution network.
In the 1950s, in an effort to make inroads into America, Peugeot (along with most other European carmakers) would allow any schmo with a 2-bay service station become a dealership. Other dealers took on multiple lines of European imports just to try to create a viable business. It wasn’t uncommon to see a Volvo-Fiat-Peugeot-Rover dealership, or somesuch.
It was a classic chicken-and-egg problem. Dealers didn’t want to invest a lot in car or parts inventory and technician training if there weren’t sales to be made, and sales couldn’t be made without dealers.
Some importers made it work. Volvo and SAAB, among many, grew their sales enough to have quality dealers. Peugeot never did. For the small numbers of Americans who bought Peugeots, they mostly suffered after the purchase with poorly-trained mechanics and lousy parts availability.
I contend that this is what killed Peugeot in the US.
A lack of investment in new product didn’t help either though. The Peugeot 205 EASILY could have been engineered to be sold over here from the beginning. What turned out to be a very popular car worldwide in the 80’s could have been viable competition for the VW Golf, as well as the Civic and any other hatchback of the day. Instead we only got the 405 which was surprising in itself.
I recall going to the 1985 Los Angeles Auto Show and there was a big Peugeot display ironically featuring the world championship winning. Peugeot 205 Group B Rally Car. Of course there were no other 205’s available so what’s the point…
I lived down the street from a busy Peugeot dealership; there was a constant stream of 504’s and 505’s on that street headed to and from the dealer, sometimes lined up to get in. Obviously they were selling cars, and obviously they needed service and/or repair a lot. I think the latter was more the issue.
I will add that the town was a commuter rail stop, so it may have been convenience-related.
Evan, pretty much the same things for american cars in Europe. Besides some of them beeing to big and thirsty for the average European wallet, the lack of educated mechanics and very expensive parts. How about $1000 for your 1995 Chevrolet Blazer fuel pump? + the work, so say $2000 for changing the fuel pump at your 10 years old Blazer. Or how about the Chrysler dealers who continued to change out the Ultradrives when the trans was locked in emergency modus (second gear) ? All they needed was very often a new solenoid….
I can imagine the same thing for Peugeot and Alfa Romeo and other in the US, expensive and sometimes troublesome cars to own there.
Another issue was Peugeot and being French. California was a hot bed for foreign cars back in the 70’s. Everything was here and if you wanted to sell you were here. This was one reason, in my opinion, why American full size cars started to disappear from our streets and can be nonexistent today. Especially so in the Bay Area.
Now rightly or wrongly the Peugeot had to work against the fact that it was a French car and the French don’t make cars. The Germans make cars and so BMW and Mercedes didn’t have that to work against. As I said rightly or wrongly that is how people thought. That is how I thought. Just like I don’t think the Germans make great perfumes. A mindset is a mindset and can take considerable effort to overcome for a manufacturer.
You may be onto something, for while the French have been very inventive in the past, esp. airplanes, guns, & cars, that didn’t make it into the public mind. It was German technology which impressed us during & after WW2, and France was mostly about wine, cheese, women, & romance, as in Maurice Chevalier.
OTOH, no one dreams of a romantic vacation in Berlin.
How did the 604 manage to stretch the wheelbase by 2+ inches (for an increase in rear leg room) while still using the 504’s doors? Just by looking at the pics, it seems like the 604 has longer rear doors.
Back when I was shopping for my first classic, about 8 years ago, I tested a rotted-out diesel automatic 604 in the Boston area. I didn’t buy it–it was way beyond my ability to save–and I haven’t seen one on the road in the US since then. In spite of its miserable condition, it still had amazing seats & ride.
I should have added front as a prefix to doors.
Take another close look at those rear doors. Aside from a different, more formal upper door frame, the lower part looks the same as the 504, with the wheel cutout moved very subtley back a bit to increase the wheelbase. It’s entirely possible that most of the door architecture was the same between the two cars.
If that 604 in Boston/New Bedford area was black, rusted in the trunk area, and had a ton of miles, then it’s the one I bought and drove back to Cleveland. I drove it 5 years straight. Its in my back yard. It’s next to an ’83 that I picked up to replace it. My neighbor’s tree had other ideas for the new ’83 unfortunately. The black ’82 still runs exceptionally well but it leaks fluids of all types. The body’s particularly rough now too despite the sheet metal job I did to shore up the trunk area when I got it. When it got to be the “Peugeot Valdez” I stopped driving it.
I think the used the 504 station wagon platform and rear doors…
http://www.motorstown.com/images/peugeot-504-sw-01.jpg
Unlucky player in the game against Germans brands (mainly), this 604, had the wrong cards since first moment, I think.
Don’t forget C9 project, later knowed as Talbot Tagora. “L’enfant non désirée”, the boy not wished. Heritage from Chrysler Europe, the final design uses many of solutions used on Peugeots.
Born in the shadow of Peugeot 604/505, was a model also with a sad end
Roger Carr did a wonderful write-up of the Tagora a while ago, here is the link: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/car-show-classic-talbot-tagora-never-a-chrysler-nearly-a-peugoet/
I can’t cite any hard data, but I have the impression that at least in the U.S., the 604 was less reliable than the 504 and 505. I wonder how much of this, if it was true, can be traced to the PRV V6.
I like these a lot for all the reasons Paul mentions.
It would have been fun to pull up to a Dodge dealer in 1992 in an aging 604. A lip reader could spot the sales manager saying, “Holy Cow! we are going to sell a Dodge Monaco today.”
Because of the Monaco’s French DNA?
The Monaco far more advanced than Dodge’s K car based offerings. However the iffy future and high maintance requirements more in line with Volvo or Peugeot made it a failure in the marketplace. The people charged with selling it would have been frustrated because it really was a much higher level car than what was being charged for it.
A 10 year old 604 driver would appreciate the Monaco for what it is without too much concern for it’s subpar brand. He also might be excited by the same engine he had upgraded with more displacement, fuel injection, and an overdrive automatic.
I remember both 604s and Tagoras from the time I spent in the UK in the late 80s – early 90s, and no one would touch those with a 10 feet pole. One of the main issues was the PRV which was overly complicated yet for that never provided very impressive power figures (other than in the turbo versions available on some Renaults and Alpines). It was not particularly reliable or maintenance-friendly when compared with the Ford V6s or even BMW’s straight sixes and parts were astronomically expensive. Maybe not an issue with the 1st or 2nd owners but by the time 3rd and 4th owners got their hands on them, the slightest problem often meant the end, not so for the Ford Granada and Scorpio. My only experience with the PRV was when I had a Renault 25 V6 Injection. It was reasonably refined but the potential frailty was always in the back of my mind, and after 4 months I sold it with a sigh of relief. They did get them right in the end and a properly maintained later PRV can cover huge mileages but that was after the 604 was gone.
On the other hand, if you were the gambling type, they could be purchased for a song; I remember a Tagora going for GBP 70 at a used car auction – and it was a low mileage 2.2 four one! 604s were on a slightly higher level, but not by much.
The more I’m thinking about this, were I in the US with access to cheap scrap yard Chev Gen III – V aluminum V8s, I’d ditch the vile PRV contraption or slothful diesel and shoehorn some Chev reliability and power to have an ultimate continental Grand Routier. Yes there would be some chopping and welding but, given that both engines are 90° Vs and that the Chev only weights 40 lbs. more, it is not as crazy as it sounds.
The styling of these cars has held up very well over the past 40 years and they are still handsome looking. With sumptuous seats and that famous French ride, I’ll bet these were indeed very comfy cars to ride in. It’s too bad they fell down in terms of drive trains and interior materials quality/design. That instrument panel looks like a random collision of parts shoved together from what was left over in the parts bin.
The Canadian spec cars all had the European lights, except for some of the final year sold here, but all carried the US style bumpers. They also had fewer emission controls so likely performed better. In the 80’s and 90’s I had several acquaintances with 604’s and none complained about a lack of reliability, although servicing/parts could prove an issue. None of them had issues with the PRV V6, nor did any of my fellow Canadian Renault 30 owners and there were several with 250,000+ kilometres on them. I can’t say either the 604 or 30 was numerous in Canada, but they were regularly seen in my part. Here’s one in Monrovia, Liberia of all places:
With a Suburban, 504 wagon, and 2 yellow Fiats(?). If it isn’t tough, it better be cheap.
Oh, and I think I see a blue Volvo 200-series wagon. I’m probably wrong about that… I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Volvo in old African CC photos here.
That is a Volvo 240 wagon but more surprising are the two yellow VW Brasilias in the background and left! The front fuel filler lid is the tipoff.
As a reader of the British magazine CAR for nearly 45 years, if I remember correctly these did fairly well in their infamous multi-car tests. Ride quality was usually ANY French cars “ace-in-the-hole”, though diesel engine smoothness and torque was a close 2nd feature. But even in Europe, Peugeot rarely came in 1st in any multi-car comparison because of their spotty assembly quality and reliability.
But finally, Peugeot was never going to do as well as an “S” class Mercedes-Benz because of that badge. Even against the “E” class, a bargain price was never going to pull Peugeot ahead of M-B.
Two things jumped out at me:
First, as I opened the web page, I didn’t have the entire picture of the 604. If one scrolls down the ‘title photo’ of the car so that only the top half of the beltline is showing, it looks amazingly like an early 70s BMW 2800 / BMW Bavaria (in the US) sedan! I never noticed that.
Second, unrelated to the Peugeot, times have changed. In the US, a BMW 530i in 1976 cost only $1500 more (equivalent of $5000-7000 today) than the Peugeot. The BMW was, IMO, a far better car, worth every penny of that $1500.
The BMW was at a whopping $4000 less than Mercedes 280E. The Benz was more robustly made and more cachet, but in many respects, particulary the ones that matter to me (performance), the Benz was an inferior car.
In 1976, a Pinto/Chevette/Corolla/Rabbit cost about $3500, and a Nova/Valiant around $4000. I think today a 5-series costs as much as an E-Class. So the BMW is no longer the bargain it was.
Paul, I enjoy your columns. Will you be kind enough to do one on the best Peugeot we Americans never had a chance to buy?
After coming back to the US in 1977, we went to Greece to visit family in 1979. While I was still too young to drive, I was into cars, and I saw a new model I had not seen before–attractive, 3-box small car, with 3 lug-nut wheels. Gallic, but chic. It was French, but not unusual.
Paul, please tell us about the Peugeot 305!
A few things stand out to me as to why the lovely 604 failed to really take off. Keep in mind this was the first time in decades Peugeot was attempting to compete in this slice of the market, so there was no real reputation for it to springboard off of. Then fact that it debuted in the wake of the recession caused by the energy crisis compounds the situation. Add in the introduction of the equally cushy and comfortably riding 505 in 1979 and it sure seemed the writing was on the wall for the 604.
Funny, but I never considered the 604 to be a “classic Pininfarina design” – I always thought it looked a bit clunky and assumed it was done “in-house”.
I never knew of these until the internet introduced them to me sometime in the past 10 years, but I find the shape strongly attractive. With the Euro lamps/bumpers and those alloys, anyway–the US lamps/bumpers, as usual, weigh it down visually. Shame they never caught on–slightly better executed and with a far better dealer network, they could have been every bit as successful as SAAB over here. (Granted, look which one of them doesn’t exist today, but still…)
I used to keep a lookout for these as a sort of consolation prize spotto hinting at my desired Fiat 130 Coupe. A brace of limousines…
The thing that stands out for me, is that it appears to be built in part on the 504 wagon chassis and is sectioned outward to the sides. The floor pans are 504, but the sills show the doubling up of the side rails. The wagon reinforcing panel that resides invisibly inside the rocker box section appears twice on the 604! Accordingly, the chassis is extremely rigid, and having owned 504’s and 505’s, the effect is quite noticeable. It is far stiffer than either. Made a good candidate for stretching into a limousine. I’m sorry they never made a wagon version. It’s begging for it!
Also of note, the independent rear suspension is on two sub assemblies, doubling the road noise/shock isolation over the 504/5 sedan’s already excellent set up.
Funny things that reveal the 604’s 504 origin pop up from time to time. Like the same interior door lock stems that break if it’s 15 degrees F outside, or when the smooth rocker panels rust only to reveal that the smooth surface is a panel tack welded over the corrugated 504 wagon rocker panels for cosmetic purposes.
It’s definitely true that the interior door panels and dash board materials are not durable at all. But the power window switches have held up fine.
The two things that others don’t like very much are two things I adore: the steering wheel angle and the rocker switches mounted flat in front of the center air vent.
But I think everyone agrees that the seating front and back is exceptional.
Thanks for the insightful additions. I’m not an expert on just how exactly Peugeot stitched together the 604, but the use of some wagon parts is fascinating. I wonder if the 604’s rear doors share their inner structure with the wagon’s?
I should have been paying closer attention when I still had the ’78 504 wagon when I picked up the ’82 604. I’m pretty sure the door structure is wagon based, though. The length of the top edge of the door looks the same and they leave the impression of being quite long when you open them, same as the wagon. The door jamb strikes me as being identical.
Also, the v6 was as tight a fit as it was in a 504 coupe since the spacing of inner fender wells, engine cradle area is identical to 504. Just the fenders are a lot wider at the top to accommodate the car’s width. It’s all concealed by the wide hood. In other words, the wheel wells are wider, not the engine compartment. I had a rough ’77 604 v6 SL in about 1990 to 1992, and in changing the alternator, I wore out every curse word I knew. The starter job had me inventing new ones. I could change a head gasket on a the diesel in the same time I think. The 505 was wider in that area to better accommodate a v6.
Overall, a vastly underrated car. As you suggested, the 504 as a starting point was advantageous.
Thanks for a well written and very accurate assessment of the 604 and its context.
There were a couple of coachbuilt wagons – one used a custom hatch and the other a Euro Ford Granada(!) hatch and taillights. They seemed to hit on every solution except the obvious one of using the 504’s wagon bits!
I just remembered that I shot a video while driving my ’82 604 that I posted to YouTube in 2010. It’s a terrible flip phone thing with lowwww res and even worse sound. But what the heck. I haven’t thought about this video in years. But it gives you an idea how “spirited” this old car is.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAI53wgN4GI
In Peugeot turbodiesel world, the ’79 through early ’82 XD2S engines performed and breathed very nicely. They always seemed to want to do a little more, a little more. This is one of them. Late ’82 introduced to the XD2S a series of genuine durability improvements to the bottom end and the valve train. But I suspect there were revisions to the injection pump characteristics or other things that had a negative effect on the subjective driving experience. It always seemed like you were having to goad the ’83-’84 to move along. The effect was most pronounced with the automatic. They got their groove back with the ’85 XD3T turbo diesel used in the 505.
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One last story- the story of the Magic Ashtray.
An acquaintance and good neighbor popped out of the building next door when he first saw me driving the car.
“Does it have the Magic Ashtray the 70’s 604 had?”
“Uhhh, yeah…” I said, not knowing what he was getting at. And my surprise at having someone so close by with direct 604 experience.
Apparently, when he was in college about 1978, he joined some buddies on a Florida road trip in one of the guy’s mother’s 604 V6. The trip was great, and they all loved that car for traveling like that, he said. The ride went ever more smoothly as the miles rolled on… and the joints rolled up 😉
Only problem was, one of their group consistently stole their roaches from the ashtray before morning. This was happening every single day of the trip! No one was escaping suspicion over the stolen roaches despite blanket denials all way around.
Until a week or so after their return.
As it would turn out, when you close the ashtray on the 604, it automatically dumps the contents of the visible tray into a large chamber behind. This feature is tastefully discrete and not at all obvious. In this way, one is greeted with neither the ashes nor the butt of the previous cigar or cigarrette.
Or joint, as it were.
The “den mother” who kindly lent the car soon made the shocking discovery of the missing contraband and apparently went ballistic on the heretofore good little boys! And never lent them the car again.
On the bright side, their suspicions were all lifted and the mystery solved. BTW, the boys all turned out okay anyway. 🙂
Terry,what a funny story.I like the look of the 604 but haven’t driven one and I cannot recall seeing very many in my travels in Australia when they were new cars and none in many years.I like their shape and particularly those luxurious looking seats.Don’t think we got the diesel versions in Oz.Last year I saw a Peugeot 605 here in Tasmania,similar size car,only one have seen though,anywhere apart from in Britain and Europe years ago. Peugeot didn’t appear to have any success with slightly larger and more luxurious cars in Oz.505 cars were quite popular but not 604.
Canadian 604s looked better. Here’s a new one in 1977 in North Vancouver.
I saw one recently not quite at the curb its maybe 5 metres back from the curb behind a climbproof fence and hasnt moved in a very long time judging by the things growing around it and on it,
Peugeot kept a ‘6’ variant at the top of its range for a very long time a 607 was street parked nearby recently with 2.7 twin turbo diesel engine, its gone now and was a rare sight Peugeots are everywhere nowdays but not the big ones.
The 604 was effectively a four door Fiat 130 coupe, a design Pininfarina also trotted out for Rolls Royce (Camargue) and the Ferrari 400i. The 604 in the flesh never looked quite right: the wheels always seemed slightly too small, the car stretched too far.
Having driven and enjoyed the seats and suspension in the 404 and 504 series; I had high hopes that the 604 would conquer the USA. Finally!
Ah well……’tis to dream…….
I might be among the very few who have driven a Peugeot 604 and the 1995 Peugeot 406. The 604 is as described in the reviews: a superb ride, luscious steering, acceptable acceleration and perhaps above all, brilliant seats front and back. The 406 does all of this with a 2.0 litre engine (much lower fuel consumption) and much greater reliability and safety. I´d recommend the 406 as completely satisfactory alternative to the excellent 604 but witht the added advantage of modern robustness and safety.
I had a ’78 back in ’83. I swapped my ’72 Jensen-Healey. I got it from an eccentric dealer in Philly. I asked him about the black box mounted in the trunk; he told me the previous owner had one of those old time car phones. I’ll say, though, that either automatic wasn’t required or this was an import, because it had a great 5 speed standard. The only problem it had was a strange vapor lock when accelerating. While not a big fan of squared types of designs, the 604 had just the right sorts of lines to make it very attractive. I’d love to find one in Europe and a mechanic in Connecticut that can keep it running. If only…