A lot is made on the web of that unicorn, the brown diesel manual wagon. Despite the fact that I know a lot of gearheads–online and in real life–who have never professed a desire for one, the auto journalists and website hosts make a big to-do about it. “Why, oh why won’t they make one?” Well, see, car companies are in the business of keeping their doors open, and that means, sad to say, a lot of black, white and gray zaftig crossovers get produced, because guys who are married kowtow to the Mrs. because that’s what people buy. But never mind! I have the NEXT BIG THING. For the ultimate in offbeat, I’m so-much-cooler-than-you folks, may I present the Sandstone Beige, Turbo Hydramatic, Astroroof Diesel Brougham Sedan?
Yes, that’s right, you heard correctly. At least one of the infamous 350 CID Diesel V8s is still out there, and presumably running. Actually, a lot of the problems with the diesel was typical inattention to maintenance, as the 1978 Delta 88 Diesel CC by BigOldChryslers suggests. Also, in 1981 several upgrades were made, including roller hydraulic valve lifters. The later diesels were not bad, but by then the engine was so maligned by the press and the buying public that its reputation never recovered.
In 1981 Oldsmobile was still a solid choice and desirable automobile. Whether you wanted a sporty, T-top Cutlass Supreme coupe, thrifty Omega or luxo-cruiser Ninety-Eight Regency sedan, Gustafson Oldsmobile had just what you were looking for. Just don’t go for the Tru-Coat.
And the Delta 88 was the bread-and-butter model. Plush yet sensibly sized, the Delta 88 always added a touch of class over lower-tier Bs like the Impala, Caprice or Bonneville. However, I would be hard-pressed not to select a Bonneville in 1981 over this Olds, but that’s just me. The Olds was still a classy and respectable ride in ’81.
And to show that you were “comfortable” but not a show-off, the choice of a Delta 88 Royale Brougham was so much more quietly successful than a Regency or Toronado. I daresay 1981-82 was the final curtain for the full-size V8 sedan as a common family choice. Sure, sales took off in ’83 and continued on a healthy pace for several years, but after ’82 it seems most were purchased as luxury vehicles, not just the good old family sedan.
I saw this 1981 Royale Brougham on eBay several months ago. I do not recall what it sold for, but was impressed with its completeness and apparent originality, despite the clear wear to the body, paint and trim. I was also impressed with the options: Tempmatic, “gage” package (ahem, GM, it is “GAUGES!”), power windows, vinyl roof, wire wheel covers, whitewalls, and the top-tier Royale Brougham interior.
Seriously, are those thrones (ahem, don’t call them seats and do them a disservice) not rich and comfy-looking. No lumbar of course, and perhaps you wouldn’t want to drive non-stop from Chicago to Denver, but that’s what Howard Johnson is for, dontcha know?
I am guessing this is a Southwest car, judging from the faded paint and top, cracked dashpad and steering wheel, yet near-pristine upholstery and rust-free condition. But perhaps the most interesting thing about the car–aside from its diesel engine and survival of thirty-three years of use–is the factory Astroroof. For a certain vintage of GM B- or C-body, an Astroroof is the cherry on the sundae, the glaze on the creme brulee. It was a very expensive option at the time–odd to younger folks today, as seemingly everything from a Civic to an Optima have moonroofs–and more commonly seen on Cadillacs.
I can’t help but wonder if this car was a “Brass Hat” car, as it is loaded for a Delta 88. Maybe the Southwest Regional Manager ordered this car in September of ’80?
Who knows, but one thing is for sure: This is a true Curbside Classic, and I hope whoever bought it will preserve it for future generations to see, and know that there once was a great car company named Oldsmobile, and for many years, they made some terrific cars.
piece of garbage.
I agree. Craptastic. Those “thrones” belong in the commode.
No it’s not.
One of the reasons I wrote this car up was because friends of my parents had a 1982 Delta 88 Royale diesel coupe in Jadestone with a Light Jadestone landau top and Light Jadestone interior. They lived on a Grand Banks cabin cruiser at the marina where my dad kept his boat, so the Olds was never garaged except in the wintertime when they rented a house. It also had whitewalls and Super Stock wheels with the “starfish” hubcaps. They bought it new and drove it for at least ten years. It was always in nice shape and ran well. I was an impressionable gearhead kid and I really liked that car, and well remember the lug-lug-lug-lug of that diesel!
I think GM would have been better off refining their gas V6s and increasing efforts on their turbos rather than going off on the diesel adventure.
Although I guess hindsight is 20/20…
Well, they did eventually. 3800?
Interesting car, but Sandstone Beige sure is plain. I will give it credit though, it has held up better than I thought it would considering the climate it is in. Hope this Olds is reliable, there are a lot of open spaces I would not want to break down in. So, how do you remove the vinyl top?
What did they use to design these B-bodies, a t-square and a triangle? Not a curved line on it.
I hate this era of design. To paraphrase one of CC’s writers from a different article, it looks like it took all of one coffee pot to come up with those (lack of) shapes. And to think these B-bodies are one of the better designs of the era!
Where they really fall down is at the front and rear. Usually there’s a very slight inward taper to the front and rear fenders if viewed from above, but here they just ran them straight out to the extremities and chopped them off. The lack of taper in plan view has the result that the front and rear somehow look to be the widest part of the car, which visually narrows the body in the middle. Unfortunate.
I agree that the GM diesels were pretty good by the time they stopped making them. That just screams GM (corvair, fiero, etc). When I came to Houston in 81 we were taken around in one of these by the realtor. Memory is rusty on this particular experience but seem to recall it being a wagon. I was pretty impressed with the car including the claimed mileage.
I have a little trouble buying something the manufacturer has abandoned but there was a lot of support available for these.
I think Oldsmobile proposed the diesel to upper management with the idea of building it with off the shelf parts to reduce initial costs. So the engine was a hodge podge of parts rather than a clean design. I suspect that GM knew the EPA would impose emission standards.
Though cheap gas and a general dislike of diesel by most Americans, regardless of them being good or bad pushed diesel to the back row for many years, even Mercedes and VW paired down their diesel offerings to just one or 2 models by the end of the 80’s
Ford offered Mazda and BMW sourced diesels in the 80’s and it dropped them too because of lack of buyer interest, AMC offered Renault sourced diesels in the Cherokee and it dropped that, so did Toyota and Nissan, both of which fielded several diesel equipped models in the early 80’s
yup in 1984-1985 Li8ncoln offered a 2.4 BMW sourced diesel engine in its Mark VII. It did not sell well with under 2500 takers(though one was supposedly equipped with a manual trans) I wonder if the Olds Diesel fiasco killed the interest in a diesel Mark VII?
That Lincoln must have been a real slug!
yup 110 HP. I have a book that talks about crap cars and it talks about this car.
I don’t think the Lincolns with the BMW engine were ever intended as anything more than limited production cars, and aside from the BMW 524td that their engines were sourced from and the 300D Turbo, they were just about the fastest diesels available in the U.S. at the time. Later versions of the Olds V8 only made 105HP and were usually found in larger, heavier cars.
even Mercedes and VW paired down their diesel offerings to just one or 2 models by the end of the 80′s……for the North American Market. Diesels were and are very popular in europe.
Yes, thats what we were talking about, diesels in America.
The added-on pod on the front door trims for PW-equipped 88’s always struck me as tacky and chintzy…why not just design a door trim specific to the cars with power windows or use the door panel from the 98?
All the more reason to move you up to a Ninety Eight.
“Ya know, the Regency is a much nicer car. Rides smoother with the longer wheelbase, dontcha know! I tell ya what, if you buy it today we’ll throw in the Tru-Coat. It’s a great car, you betcha!”
Your a..a.. fookin’ liar Mr Gunderson!
-that tru-coat, you don’t get you get it you oxidation problems.
-alright…I’l talk to my boss.
The same thing is done to 2006 F-150s, the ones with power windows have that added on pod.
The huge full-length armrest from the 98 would have fit on the 88, but only for the front doors. The B-body rear doors are smaller than the C-body’s, so the 98 sedan rear armrests wouldn’t fit on the 88. The only B-body that got the big C-body armrests was the ’77-78 Riviera coupe, where the non-matching front and rear armrests wasn’t as noticeable.
The C-bodies all had standard power windows, so they could all have the large full-length armrests. The B-bodies didn’t, and thus needed truncated armrests to leave room for the window cranks. My family had a ’77 Bonneville Brougham, which IIRC was the only ’77 B that had the front extension pods which did make the armrest more comfortable to drape your arm on – your fingers didn’t dangle in mid-air because of them, though the slight drop from the main armrest height rendered them less comfortable (or attractive) than the full-length C-body armrests. They also made the power window controls much easier to find and use than the four switches lined up in a row on the door panel. If you ordered the optional power windows on the non-Brougham Bonneville, you got the pods too. Not so on the Catalina if I recall correctly, or on any other B body in this style’s first year. In later years, the pods spread to all GM B-bodies with power windows.
I can’t believe I remember all of this, but I guess it’s understandable given that I had little to do as a gearhead kid in the isolated ‘burbs than read car magazines and brochures.
I hate those seats.
No lumbar support? Pass!
My 78 Regency seats were not really comfortable. They weren’t uncomfortable, but my earlier Buicks had better seats for comfort.
Having owned a few of these cars, I’d agree with your assessment. I have done several 10+ hours trips in Olds b-bodies and survived, but by then I was ready to get out. They probably would have been a lot better had there been a more adjustment. I did have a Custom Cruiser that had reclining backs and 6-way power and they were better. I always found after many hours of driving in this generation of b-body you could feel the seat frame on the left side of the bottom cushion.
I have spent absolutely huge amount in these cars. They are not too bad with the split front bench seat with optional power on the driver side. The really uncomfortable aspect of these cars with the fact that the seat was too low to the floor. You would sit with your legs splayed out it was really uncomfortable on the lower back. GM did this to get big headroom figures. All in all the Olds had the best seat of any B body. However, that was not hard to top!
had a ’78 Delta 88 with the 6 way power seat, it wasn’t particularly comfortable, but the fact that you could just change height or tilt or whatever at the touch of the button meant you could drive until something hurt then change the seat and drive until something else hurt and keep doing that….well straight through from Kansas City to Charleston, South Carolina on one memorable occasion
+1. Rode in a Delta 88 of this generation on a road trip once. I was all of 19 and my body was still mighty resilient, but holy crap could I not wait to get out of that torture chamber. Those seats were murder.
Its not like you would be racing this car around the track. I am sure seats were plenty comfortable and nobody ever fell out of it!!!
No one fell out–they all fell in to the seats.
One of the bumper stickers advertises the Sun Bowl in El Paso. I can’t imagine anyone living outside of “The Sun City” would have the slightest interest in promoting that annual snoozefest. So I’m guessing the original owner was a middle aged Federal Civil Service employee (double-dipping because he was retired from the Army). Houses were cheap, so he had lots of disposable income to spend on vehicles. He commuted to Ft. Bliss or perhaps even White Sands Missile Range, leaving the car to bake in a parking lot day in and day out. He probably traded or sold in within a few years, and the car bounced from owner to owner in El Paso, rarely if ever seeing the inside of a garage.
One of these with a Cummins or Duramax swap would be an interesting tow vehicle. A few months ago the folks on bring a trailer belly ached about one of these and basically said all box body full sizers are crap. I hope it finds a good home, because what the buyers of that more pristine example did was tasteless, though not the worst fate for such a pristine car. http://bringatrailer.com/2013/02/25/54k-mile-1979-oldsmonile-ninety-eight-diesel/
http://bringatrailer.com/2013/03/10/bat-success-story-oldsmobile-diesel-sxsw-road-trip/
“Success story?” That was a really nice original car and they ruined it. Ick.
Everyone I knew with a GM diesel had it converted to gas power somewhere along the line. I did drive a Ciera once with a V6 diesel in it, and that car felt pretty sprightly, compared to the big, slow B and C bodies. Was it a 4.3L diesel? I don’t recall.
The Cieras and other A-bodies got the last “new” diesel developed by Oldsmobile, it was a 4.3 V6 diesel, same displacement as the short lived 260 4.3 diesel V8 from 1979. It made about 85hp and some decent low end torque, plus it was fitted to much lighter cars like the A and downsized C-body cars, it was also available in the RWD G-body cars too. It was made through 1985 when all Oldsmobile diesels were discontinued.
Oldsmobile engineers played around with a high performance version of this engine, thinking that this would be “the future” after gas prices spiked and arab oil embargos IV, V and VI, they were able to get the 4.3 V6 diesel to 101hp and 180lb-ft of torque, there were also some turbo programs for this motor.
http://a350diesel.tripod.com/v6fast.html
There was one more Oldsmobile diesel engine under development in the 80’s that never made it to production, it was a diesel V5, 3 cylinders on one side, 2 on the other, with the injection pump where the 3rd cylinder would have been, it was scheduled for the N-body cars, I imagine for what would have been the $5.00 a gallon gas apocalypse we would have been seen during the 2nd Mondale administration, just before we surrendered to the USSR.
http://www.oldsmobility.com/oldsmo/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=162
The 4.3 V-6 diesel was a rare bird. I’ve never seen.
We swapped out quite a few Olds diesels in the mid-1980’s. The diesel wasn’t worth fixing.
Imagine if that V5 diesel had actually made it into the N-bodies? Volkswagen now builds a gas “V5” but it’s a narrow-angle V like their VR6, and as far as I know that’s the only one that has ever existed in a production car. The 90-degree Olds engine would’ve been crazy weird.
My Dad had one of these, an 84 Ciera with the 4.3 diesel. He put 178K on it, with only maintenance stuff done to it. Well, the AC went out too. It knocked down nearly 40MPG, could tow our small pop-up camper like it wasn’t there, and sounded so much cooler than the 2.5 powered Cieras. The seats weren’t real comfortable, though. His was that beigy-silvery-gold with brown interior. It had an auxiliary fuel tank in the trunk, right up against the back seat. Filling that and the main tank, meant he could go almost 2 weeks without a fill up (we lived near Milwaukee and he worked at Great Lakes Naval base near Chicago) So say what you want about Olds diesels, I’ll always remember ours fondly. (It died because the one gas station in our town that sold Diesel, was full-serve only and the kid working there put gasoline in it, necessitating the entire fuel system to be dropped and cleaned out so the engine didn’t explode. It was 7 or 8 years old at that point, so the insurance company totalled it)
That vinyl top needs some Jergens…
I’ve seen this beasty for sale on the electronic bay before, its an curious white elephant, I can attest that a Astroroof is rare, even on a non-Cadillac C-body, its uncommon, on a B-body, its almost a unicorn, I have a non-glass sunroof Caprice Classic, which is very rare.
This car has some things I find odd, like the black seat belts on a Royale interior, I would have sworn that they were color coordinated on a Royale trimmed car, the antenna on the rear deck is puzzling too, these cars had the antenna either in the windshield or on the right front fender, never on the rear deck.
I noticed the black belts shortly after this ran. Very odd!
The colour-keyed seat belts must have been optional. We had a few Royale Broughams with black belts.
Perhaps the original safety belts wore out? I know the ones in my 87 Caprice were kind of frayed and would develop slack unless I opened the door (while driving) which tightened them up for a few minutes.
But the buckles are the cheap black ones too?
My grandfather’s older brother and his wife had a roughly ’81 Delta 88 diesel. Nearly identical to this car, it was loaded quite heavily, but it did not have the astroroof. It replaced a ’73 or ’74 Galaxie 500.
They ran that diesel hard for 10 years. From what I later heard, the water pump had to be replaced about every 10,000 miles and the fuel gelled on them once. Other than that, they were always quite happy with it. Living down several miles of gravel road, it was looking a little rough around the edges when it went away for a front-drive Buick LeSabre.
Interesting, this 1981 represents “peak diesel” for passenger cars at GM, with 310,000 made, 60% of the diesel passenger car market.
The vinyl-top-delete cars look so much cleaner, but they seem to be rare. The half-vinyl tops on the E-body cars of that era were particularly heinous…a metal-top Toronado in charcoal gray with smooth wheel covers is beautiful.
My mother bought an early-production 1982 Cutlass Supreme sedan in dark redwood with dark redwood padded vinyl top from Columbia Olds in downtown Cincinnati, around Thanksgiving of 1981…I begged and pleaded for them to get the leftover 81 Delta 88 in black, with no vinyl top and cathouse red velour, to no avail. That Cutlass was an oddball…82-style Supreme emblems on the outside, 81-style LS emblems on the interior trim, but an ’82 interior color. Bodycolor sport mirrors and superstock wheels on whitewall tires, with the padded top…strange combination of dressy and sporty.
There were quite a few plain roof 88’s sold in my area, was not a ‘delete’ but standard on most 88 trims. Maybe std on Royale Brougham?
Want a diesel Oldsmobile ?
We’ve got plenty of those still running in France. Even Cadillacs.
http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/offres/ile_de_france/occasions/?f=a&th=1&re=1985&fu=2&gb=2&q=oldsmobile
http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/offres/ile_de_france/occasions/?f=a&th=1&re=1985&fu=2&gb=2&q=cadillac
If you would have told me there were 11 Oldsmobiles of any kind for sale in France I would have doubted you, but 11 diesel Oldsmobiles, that’s even stranger!
The Olds diesel B-Bodies (and Cadillacs) were a big deal in Europe. It allowed folks to buy a big American sedan with drastically improved operating costs, thanks to much better mileage and cheap diesel. The car magazines rather raved over them. The dollar was also very cheap at the time, making these fairly affordable. I suspect a very high percentage of the ones sold in Europe were diesels; a bit hard to imagine anyone going for the gas ones.
Their performance was considered reasonably adequate, given the standards of the time and their efficiency, for such a big car.
Diesel Oldsmobiles, both Delta 88s and Cutlasses, were officially imported to by GM France.
It was actually a smart move because, unlike the USA where diesel cars were mostly a fad at that time, France’s love story with diesels was here to stay.
First, because of lower taxes, diesel is much cheaper than gasoline in France.
Second, we used to pay a yearly tax called the “vignette” whose amount depended on engine size and gearbox ratios. The bigger the engine the costlier the tax.
The vignette cost escalated even more quickly for engines bigger than 3.0 liters (183 ci). Why ? Because no french car company built engines bigger than that…
Moreover, automatic transmissions were more heavily taxed than their mechanical counterparts.
As a result, american cars were probably the most heavily penalized by this tax (just owning one, without driving it, would cost you something than 15.000 FF – roughly $3.000 – a year).
But diesel engines, even big ones, were much less penalized by this system than gasoline engines.
As a consequence, a diesel Oldsmobile would get the same vignette as a Citroën CX with a gasoline 2.4 liters (146 ci) inline 4 !
So, the diesel Oldsmobiles were perfect for France because you could own an american luxo-barge without the fuel consumption and high taxes normally attached to it.
No surprise it sold well over here.
Or, maybe it’s because we just love lemons… Which might be a strong possibility when you look at other american cars officially sold in France : Mustang IIs, Pacers, Volares, and X-body Skylarks. True story.
Just kidding. We’ve got some hardcore fans of diesel Oldsmobiles over here that have learnt how to enhance their reliability to keep them going.
I poked around that classifieds site and I’m very impressed with the selection of American cars for sale over there! EXCEPT for the large number of 3rd gen F-bodies. What’s up with that?! Did Ford not sell the Fox-body Mustang in France?
No, Ford never sold Fox-body Mustangs in France.
Except for Mustang IIs, american Fords from the 70´s and after are pretty scarce over here. IIRC, the only two american Fords officially sold in France after 1980 were Explorers and Aerostars. And not many of them.
Ford from the 60’s are a different story though. It seems we’ve got caseloads of 64 to 68 Mustangs. For any bread and butter american sedan offering, there are 5 to 10 first-gen ´Stangs for sale !
Seems like pony cars were at least a mild hit in France, which makes it somewhat curious that Ford chose not to send over their (excellent) follow up to the Mustang II. I was surprised to see that this popularity extended to the 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds, though! I’d have figured that’s where you guys would draw the line; they don’t have the most flattering image over on their home turf.
I actually like all those other cars, though! Pacers, Olds diesels, GM A-body wagons, “traction avant” Phoenixes and Skylarks… even saw a completely original, mint condition H-body Sunbird on there. Cars like that just do not exist in the U.S. anymore.
I’ll tell ya, if this was a coupe, I would be having a hard time saying no.
There was a semi redemption for this vintage Oldsmobile diesel about a decade ago when Car & Driver did a “diesel beater” comparison that included an 83 diesel Maxima, 80 300SD and an 82 Delta 88 diesel coupe, the Delta 88 performed like a champ on the 2400 mile drive from Michigan to California, beating the other 2 cars, the only issue was wax build up in the tank from the Oldsmobile sitting for a long time before they bought it.
Its a fun read, a very Top Gear esque type challenge/comparison
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/battle-of-the-diesel-beaters
This car pegged my POS meter!
Positively Outstanding Sled?
@CARMINE
Yeeeeaaah!
Jesus, what a buncha whiners, does everyone have a hangover today….lol.
Reminds me of my old Delta 88, but I was lucky enough to have the reliable (but slow) 307 Olds. I was also fortunately enough to have a base car with F41 suspension but without the horrible velour upholstery and pillow top seats. My 307 had 35 more HP than the diesel; I can’t imagine how terrible the diesels would have been to drive. I remember old road tests of these diesel b-bodies have acceleration on par with a VW van.
The moon roof is a rare option but didn’t care for them because almost every car that has one results in me hitting my head on the ceiling. These 350 Olds’ diesels were never great, even after the upgrades. The best part of this car would be salvaging the beefy 350 diesel block to make a hi-po Olds 350 gas engine. Now that would be a sleeper, especially if you kept the diesel emblems.
Everyone else is looking at the roof or the Diesel, all I see is that miserable Tempmatic. Had one in the 1984 98 coupe that I owned for 4 years, and the miserable thing never did work right. A 54,000 mile car when I got it (albeit 13 years old). The only way to get cold air out of the a/c was to leave it on max/recirc, otherwise the controller kept trying to warm the air up. Other than the goofy electronic controls, it had the typically fabulous GM hvac system – hot heat and cold cold, both nearly instantly.
TemperMatic? 😉
or TempManic 🙂 Perhaps it was just the JPC curse when it comes to old cars with automatic temp control. The best ones needed fixed, and the worst ones never worked right at all.
And once Tempmatic failed, and it always did, it was impossible to fix.
I had this on my old Custom Cruiser wagon and of course it failed. I replaced a couple of those vacuum servos and it just never worked properly. So I ended up rigging the factory cable for the temperature control to move the arm that control the temperature door in the heater box. It worked really well for the rest of the cars life with only a slight bind in the cable movement at one extreme end (I don’t recall which now).
My 78 Regency Diesel had the tempmatic, which worked fine except that the fan was not automatic, as my previous buicks had been. Did not really like it, but it did not fail. I think that the turbohydramatic 200 was near failure when I traded it off for a Skyhawk.
I’ve never had an Oldsmobile, so I’ve wondered, is the Tempmatic on these an automatic system? All I see is the standard GM a/c controls with numbered temperature indications instead of “cool” and “warm” on the slider, I don’t see an “auto” position like you would have on a “Comfortron” or Buick/Cadillac auto climate control system.
The automatic function controlled only the temperature. There was a separate manual fan switch which was the sole method of fan control. Also, the mode (heat, a/c) was also manually selected. So, I suppose it was aptly named, because Temp was the only part that was Matic. It is interesting that GM would try to add a 3rd way that was halfway between the full automatic system and the full manual system. I suppose in those days, there was some benefit to offering something that gave some semblance of Automatic control to the system yet at a lower price point more befitting Oldsmobile. I have no idea if these were offered on Pontiac or Chevy lines.
For my money, the TempMatic had all of the disadvantages of automatic and all the disadvantages of manual systems, all rolled into one.
I was around for those. Bad head gaskets, weak head bolts, injector pumps full of goo. They were bad news indeed first couple of years, but steadily improved and by 1981 they were not too bad. The later versions with ‘DX’ block casting marks were actually pretty good, but as many have noted buyers were scared to death of them. The 4.3L V-6 diesel was quite good right out of the box, all the lessons learned from the early 5.7L’s were applied. There was actually 2 versions of the V-6, one for FWD cars and one for RWD. There were a very few G bodies built with 4.3L V-6 diesels (no, not the earlier 260 diesel Cutlass).
Bonus points if you can name the first time GM tried to turn a gasoline engine into a diesel (the Olds 350 was the second). The results were somewhat better, and the engine remained in production 10 years. Yes, it was in the U.S..
With the passage of time, I think it is time the Olds 350 diesel relinquish it’s bad diesel crown to the Ford/Navistar 6.0L Powerstroke. The 6.0L seems to have the talent for spontaneous energetic disassembly that the early Olds diesel did, but has the added bonus of being nearly impossible to work on. Not to mention the 6.0L is much more expensive. At least the Olds diesel was inexpensive for a diesel and easy to repair.
Bonus points if you can name the first time GM tried to turn a gasoline engine into a diesel. The results were somewhat better, and the engine remained in production 10 years. Yes, it was in the U.S.
The mighty GMC Toroflow Just think if they had built a Twin Six version!
351 V6 or 702 V12 version? It was a TRUCK engine! Please don’t forget the infamous SUPERCHARGED High Speed 2 stroke GM diesels…
Well it wasn’t for a passenger car, because the Olds was GM’s first domestic passenger car diesel, so I am going to assume its for a truck. The GMC gas V6 did have a diesel offshoot called the ToroFlow.
Yes, the Toroflow. A case could be made that GM intended there to be a diesel version of the GMC V-6 all along, considering how overbuilt the gas V-6 was (even for a truck engine). No, there wasn’t a diesel version of the 702 Twin Six but there was a 637 V-8 offshoot that was offered in both gas and diesel.
… and just as useless as the Oldsmobile. Nobody seemed to have learned anything in the 12 years passing between these two mechanical disasters. The Toroflow is even more difficult to explain when one remembers the well-established Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines with similar HP output sold by GM at the same time (the 6V-53 springs to mind).
The Toroflow was substantially cheaper than a Detroit back in the day. The idea was a low cost economical diesel that would pay for itself much quicker than existing diesels at the time. The 637 V-8 version was very close to the 6V-53 in output, while the 478 V-6 was comparable to the 4-53. The early Toroflows were certainly not without their faults, but like the Olds diesel lack of proper maintenance was a contributing factor to their less-than-stellar reputation. International came out with a conceptually very similar diesel known as the DV-550 with the much same results.
Considering that diesel is $3.99 and E-10 unleaded is $4.09, interest in diesels may begin to spike if the price disparity grows.
CC needs a diesel week!
I remember these sounding like this…
KRA
KRA
KRA
KRA
KRA
KRA
KRA
KRA
KRA
To me, it’s like a blanket. Soothing.
Boy thats loud I drive a diesel and you cant really hear the engine in mine.
In the States, diesel cars are -EXTREMELY- rare. So rare that a person walking on a street might stop and point to a clanking diesel engine as if to say to the driver, “It’s about ready to implode!!!”.
The husband of a lady I used to work with owned a navy blue New Beetle TDI in the early 2000s. He did a lot of traveling and every time he stopped at a truck stop to fill up, some well-meaning trucker would come running over, going “No no don’t, that’s diesel!”
I think he started filling up in town after a while.
Nice ride 🙂
Want to know how we call that sound in France : “taxicab-like”.
‘Cause, the very first diesel cars were mostly used by cab companies, back in the 50’s.
At the end of the 70’s, my guess is that most cabs were diesel powered.
Anyway, I wish I could try one of these. I was always curious to know what it would be like if you add the big low-end torque of an american V8 with the big low-end torque of a diesel engine.
Same where I grew up (Israel) with many 403s and 404s berline and break (8-seaters) diesels. Competition was (obviously) Mercedes, some Fiats (2300s) but also initially Desoto fitted with Perkins 4 cyl. diesel, really a crude truck engine. Later – when Chrysler lost interest – Checker took over in so far as the US cabs were concerned, still with those shakey Perkins engines (fitted by the factory I believe). Then these Oldsmobiles (and Checkers fitted with the same Olds engine) arrived…. And for a while it was like one was ushered into a new era – it’s hard to explain what a change this smooth engine represented when compared with the boomy French, German (cab drivers saved on purchase price and avoided the 5 cyl.), English and Italian fours. It was pure luxury for anyone who traveled in these cabs (who invariably had air conditioning, something which the competition did not usually possess). Until the troubles started, finally culminating in an Israeli Supreme Court decision which made GM and Checker take back the cars with full price reimbursement. Given that Checker had sold quite a few cabs in Israel, it could not have helped its position at all… GM was too big to be bothered, I suppose.
Wow, interesting! I knew GM always sold well in the Middle East but I had no idea that Checker had any presence there, or anywhere outside of North America for that matter
I do remember reading somewhere that Checker had an optional Perkins diesel in the late 60s, but I could never find any more info on them. They were probably export-only cars like the earlier DeSotos and Plymouths.
Or maybe they were sold in the U.S.?? Just found this up for sale on eBay, looks like a U.S.-market brochure. Can anybody confirm whether these actually existed? Pretty cool if they did!
Another rarity, a 1956 Plymouth with a Perkins diesel.
Source: http://www.allpar.com/corporate/factories/rotterdam.html
I’ve been reading up on Checker and Chrysler diesels for the last couple hours and it seems as if Allpar only has part of the story!
Apparently there were three different types of Chrysler Perkins diesel “production” – most of the European cars seen on Allpar were conversions done by a Belgian contractor, which could be performed on any Chrysler and also as an aftermarket job on a gas-engined car, which most probably were.
Then in 1956 Chrysler started building CKD DeSotos and Plymouths with the same engine at their factory in Rotterdam (the article doesn’t really make this distinction clear) which lasted up until 1964 or so, when they dropped them. A handful of these also got sent to Canada early on, which is what the “only surviving” one shown on their page is: a European ’56 Plymouth sold new in Canada. A different ’56 Canadian-European Plymouth also came up for sale on craigslist last year: http://barnfinds.com/rare-diesel-powered-1956-plymouth-savoy/
And lastly, Chrysler actually built Plymouth Fleet Special models with the Perkins diesel in Detroit! They were most likely part of a test fleet, similar to what Chrysler is currently (or was?) doing with the Caravan and Ram PHEVs, and almost certainly hand-built from unfinished gas-engined cars pulled off the production lines. But unlike most test cars, they were actually sold, rather than leased for a temporary period only, and only to taxi operators.
Here’s a Popular Mechanics blurb from 1961 with a picture of a wonderful ’61 Perkins Plymouth sci-fi nightmare sedan: http://books.google.nl/books?id=f98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA54&dq=plymouth+perkins+diesel&client=firefox-a&rview=1&cd=1#v=onepage&q=plymouth%20perkins%20diesel&f=false
Seems like the U.S. program operated from about 1958-1962 or so. The PM article gives the specs as 72HP, 170lb-ft, ~3,500lb. curb weight, 0-60 in roughly 22 seconds with fuel economy of 19-22mpg city and high 20s on the highway. It’s not surprising that hardly any of these cars have survived, being taxis and all (try to find a pre-1960s Checker), but I am surprised that information on them is so sparse. I guess they weren’t really that glamorous and too easily forgotten.
Here’s a ’59 that is being restored, albeit slowly – this one even has a pushbutton automatic!
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21518
Wow, very interesting information Sean! You really need to think about writing for CC. In fact, add a few pictures and a bit more text to your comment and it could easily be an Automotive History post.
Thanks, Tom!
I really want to but OMFG the time! I don’t know how you guys do it!! I always think “do one and it’ll get easier” but then my brain wanders all over the place. The Chrysler/Checker diesel story I think I could probably hammer out into something respectable, but I’d wanna find more solid sources first; seems like an interesting topic and I want to do them justice. There has to be something more definitive out there…
Most of Checkers engines were Chevrolet built 6’s and V8’s
Ah, memories of Driver’s Ed. (307-powered ’85 model, fortunately)
In addition to the black seat belts, it appears this otherwise loaded up car left Lansing (or was it Cadillac Clark St. by then?) with a plain AM/FM stereo, only to be replaced with an aftermarket dealer-installed Delco-lookalike cassette player.
Great car to feature Tom! I love these face-lifted 88s. I know my grandfather owned a diesel Cutlass Supreme coupe around this time. I’m not sure if he ever owned an 88 like this one; probably not. I also love its color combination much more than the darker shades on the 1983 88 I found a few months back.
Screw Diesel Oldsmobiles, I want the coal powered Eldorado turbine! That has to be the ultimate Malaise Era unicorn.
Evidently, there is at least one other running Olds Diesel – Mecum Harrisburg has one in their auction catalog selling later this month.
http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?lot_id=PA0714-188088
Brings back memories of my aunt’s 1980 ElDorado diesel. This Delta has some cool options. Looks like it has illuminated entry too – very rare on a Delta 88. I’m surprised it doesn’t have cornering lamps or fiber optic lamp monitors, right Carmine? As far as the black seatbelts, I think those may have been changed out by someone. I’ve never seen a Royale Brougham without color keyed seatbelts!
I thought the same thing, usually you would see the lamp monitors and cornering lamps on a car that had a sunroof.
Got a euro marketed 305 cid V8 DIESEL Custom Cruiser equiped with Buick Estate Wagon facory made REAR AMBER turn signals. It was (hmmm) slow BUT reliable. Never drove over 110-120 kph with 3 speed automatic transmission in order to avoid cylinder head gasket blowout. My mechanic still owns a diesel (yes) 1980 Delta 88 Royale! As he gifted the car to his older daughter…after 33 years in 2013 the young woman decided to replace the original engine to a new one. So they’ve changed it to a 6.2 Litre diesel. In the meantime the rear drum brakes has been replaced to disks…borrowed from a Toronado of those days and the interior door panels are replaced with a 98 Regency’s. The original 3 speed transmission were also replaced years ago to a 4 speed and got connected with the former 5.7 Litre diesel engine. The complete vinyl roof is also ready to be mounted but it is unsure shall it ever be installed or not!? Anyway this family shall keep maybe forever this Oldsmobile as it is still in factory condition.
Sounds like the sensible thing to do when one of those dies, I would have used a 5 sp perhaps. 30 MPG or more?
I don’t know why, but these early 80’s Deltas really appeal to me, right after the Cutlass Supremes of course!
And I found Olds Brougham seating to be very comfortable…I am guessing everyone here must have some odd body proportions 😛
Speaking of Checkers, didn’t a few leave Kalamazoo with Olds 350 diesel power in ’79 or so? This talk of the Olds diesel’s racket reminded me of a neighbor back in the day. Guy had a canary yellow GMC 1/2 ton stepside with the 350 diesel. Naturally, he had some job that required him to leave at 6:00 a.m., and it seemed most of the time he parked that truck right in front of our house. Unfortunately he was very good about warming that cement mixer up thoroughly before leaving, and it never blew up……
“a lot of black, white and gray zaftig crossovers get produced,”
Most new car buyers are so concerned with resale and “blending in”, so we get virtual look a like vehicles.
When I got my new ’13 Civic, I got Kona Coffee aka brown!
I have your car’s twin!
I once drove an ’80 (or so) Fleetwood Brougham diesel from Chicago to Sacramento. The poor thing was so gutless it had trouble maintaining speed on the upsides of rolling hills in Iowa.
But, oh, the wonderful lumbering ride . . . .
I’ve got an Audi A8 diesel now. Punchy, plenty fast. 37 mpg cruising at 80, 85 mph. Amazing car.
But it doesn’t have that Cadillac ride.
k I have looked at all of this and different things that have been said I just scored a no smoked in two door delta 88 royal brougham with 56 thousand miles and its sweet as cherry pie rides nice and cheap to run and the big thing I can work on it wen needed complicated cars these days the car right is to take out and relax and get ice cream or something please old cars are for something to enjoy they have been around the block enjoy and you will live longer well maybe not relax lol
“This is a true Curbside Classic, and I hope whoever bought it will preserve it for future generations to see.”
These days, young idjits inherit or stumble upon perfectly good, serviceable used cars like this and use them or flip them on Craigslist as “derby cars”. Lotsa good iron disappearing forever in these stupid-fests.
One time I was in a repair garage and there was a ’66 Toronado on the hoist. I exclaimed to the mechanic that this classic sure was in good shape- no rust or dents, it looked pretty good. The mechanic said that the owner BROUGHT IT IN to the shop to get it running to enter in a demo derby. Believe me, I held a lot in when I replied, “He isn’t too bright, is he?”
I got one running now…is a 1984 Delta88 Brougham Royale coupe 350 diesel…runs like a champ…no problems yet.
Love it.