As I’m sure we all know, here at CC we have a more…eclectic taste in cars. We shun the restomods and the endless SBC swaps in favor of the unrestored originals, as they were the sort of thing people actually drove “back in the day” instead of the overpolished show cars that we see everywhere. That got me thinking about what sort of car I would go to see in a car show 50 years from now. What would draw my attention over the LSA Swapped Chevy Colorados and Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 Replicas?
To say that the Chrysler group is producing an amazing lineup at the moment is an understatement. Their Dart is just the vehicle needed to wash the horrible taste of the Caliber out of our mouths, the 200 that took over from the facelifted Sebring bearing the same name is so good that somebody outside rental fleets may actually consider buying it. Then there are the minivans, which are the best in the business to the surprise of nobody.
But the best thing that they do at the moment is keeping the tradition of the American sedan, the Charger and Chrysler 300 do not have the least intention of appealing to the euro-crowd. They’re big, they know it and carry that flag unapologetically. The Chrysler 300C John Varvatos Edition even holds the fort of designer editions previously manned by the likes of the Lincoln Town Car Cartier and the Cadillac Seville by Gucci. Let’s gloss over the fact that they have Mercedes underpinnings and that the Chrysler Corporation itself is run by Fiat, which is as American as Sean Connery’s accent. And in the spirit of giving a one-fingered salute to globalization and ever more forceful push to greener and cleaner, they also give us a full lineup of extremely powerful Muscle cars.
Can you really go wrong with the “Normal” hemi 5.7L V8? Making 375HP and giving you more than adequate burnout potential for those stoplights where you’re sure there’s absolutely no one to look at your shenanigans, you’d be hard pressed to say no when they offer it to you as an upgrade. But if you want a little more oomph you can always splurge for the optional 6.4L SRT powerhouse, which bumps you to 485HP and the absolute certainty that you have far too much engine in your muscle car, which is not a bad thing really. Finally, if you really want to have the single most insane vehicle that you can have without spending six figures, if you have just received a very large bonus check and you don’t want to spend it on something silly like an extension to your house or a boost to your pension fund there’s the car above. The Challenger Hellcat; which is the apple in the eye of every automotive journalist from Alaska to Key West. Completely unnecessary, hilariously overpowered, with an engine note like a screaming banshee coming for the souls of innocent Optimas and Accords. And, like any good performance car coming from the land of lawsuits the brave, it’s priced far too cheaply at a fiver under sixty grand, gas guzzler tax included. An unrestored one of these will be fetching big money at an auction in the not so long future.
So, where does that leave the Pentastar powered pony? Well, I guess where the original slant six Challengers were, for people who just want the challenger image but don’t want the increased hassle and costs that even the smallest V8 would carry, with the promise of 30 MPG on the highway to boot. Maybe someone who had one when he was younger but now he feels neither inclined nor capable of handling a sports car that can crack 60 in less than four seconds. Just slide in, ease the Torqueflite into drive (Oh thank you Dodge for bringing that name back.) and cruise along to the market or the car show after church.
I don’t dare to fully compare it with the slant six, it’s far too early in the game to see if it’ll be as unkillable as that lovable lump of metal but for the moment it’s playing that role in the lineup, powering everything from the top of the line 200 to the base Ram 1500. On the Challenger’s case it produces 300HP, which I can’t believe we have to call “Not very powerful” based on the context. I still remember my old copy of Car&Driver publishing “400 HP” in giant red letters over a picture of a yellow Ferrari 360 spider and people older than me no doubt rejoiced when the Corvette passed the 300HP barrier again; But it’s sharing billing with engines that are punching at least 75 HP over it. Marketing departments are certainly not going to be calling it to feature prominently in the blurbs; except perhaps for putting “Up to 30 MPG” on them with a teeny tiny little asterisk to hide the fact that no, you are certainly not getting 30 MPG from that SRT 392 Scat Pack (Another name we should be thankful is back.)
I presume that the normal Hemi will make the bulk of sales, followed by the six, mostly to fleets and the aforementioned likely buyers, and the 392 and Hellcat will get the very top end of the market. As they grow older and older people will start be swapping weird engines into innocent V6 models that they got on the cheap because nobody wanted them on the used market and painting them in bright colors. Soon they’ll be featured in car shows across the land, where I’ll get bored of them and pay attention to that lovely unmolested model that has been on the same family since new. Who knows, maybe they’ll accept an offer for it.
Chrysler is building an exciting array of cars all right. So many of them are so appealing. But I’m keeping back a bit while I watch to see how reliable these cars turn out to be, mostly the Dart and the 200.
That said, if I were to buy a Challenger, I’d want the six. Because that’s how I roll.
Even my friend’s 75 year old mother isn’t sad enough to buy the six, since she can afford to buy a Hellcat, if she wanted to . She drove the six, it was “ok”, drove the R/T, it was “fine”, and the the SRT, and she bought the R/T, all black. She loves it. She had a 71 Challenger R/T just before she got married, and sadly, it was wrecked when her sister lost control on a rainy day and bounced it off a tree. The six isn’t that bad, but the Hemi is so much better, with only a slight milage penalty. The choice is obvious…
The coolest Barracuda I have ever seen around these parts was a 1971 convertible slant 6. 3 speed manual and no radio. My brother-in-law got a rubbing of the option plate and there were no options. the lady that owned it bought it new–I havn’t seen it since the late 90’s but I’m sure its a Hemi clone by now.
Our son got a 2014 1LT Camaro in bright yellow this summer. The V6 is strong, gets good mileage and is a nice car. It’s just the call of the V8 and the extra 103 hp in the SS that calls to us that first got our licenses in the early ’60s. As my wife and I often say when a friend buys an SL63 AMG, ‘why do they do it, because they can.’ Another friend got and sold an SL55 (beautiful car, black exterior, red interior) because he was getting too many speeding tickets! Driving between Denver & Phoenix in cars that can easily cruise over 100, 84 just isn’t much fun.
Aside from the V-6 having perfectly adequate performance for anyone whose vision is not permanently full of red mist (yes, the Challenger is heavy, but c’mon, 300 net horsepower?), I think the big appeal is not fuel economy, but rather insurance costs. V-8 pony cars have long been expensive to insure and I don’t assume that’s changed. The V-6 is probably still not cheap in that regard, but there’s a difference between “kind of pricey to insure” and “so…second mortgage?” The latter is the main thing that killed the muscle cars in the early ’70s, aside from just the general price escalation and the fact that the target audience was starting to need family space.
I agree, and I know a boat load of people who not only avoid the V8 option with cars like this but avoid cars like this entirely simply because of the insurance(whether that’s simply based on assumption or in fact reality), even over practicality concerns of 2 doors, ect. I think the insurance aspect definitely plays a bigger role to people than the MPG gains. 6s really don’t offer much more than a 2-4 MPG gain over the optional V8 in most cases, and that kind of variance can be accounted for with a change in driving habits if you needed to cut back on fuel costs with a V8.
According to my insurance agent, the difference between a 3.6 and 5.7 Challenger is less than $100 a year, to me. If I get a 6.4 Scat Pack in ’16, the difference between it and a 5.7 R/T will probably be the same. I can handle that just fine.
I found the Challenger to have a chintzy interior, last time I sat in one a couple years ago. The 300 justifies its price better in that regard and the current gen is truly handsome.
The Dart and 200 are closer to my part of the market, but they look like Neon 3.0 to me. None of the big cars’ neo-Engel “fill the box” style seems to have trickled down. I’d like to know that build quality has truly improved, too, before I can be as enthusiastic as Gerardo.
The 200 carries the fluid look off better than the Dart imo. I also think Mopar should bring in the Dart hatchback (Fiat Viaggio in China) – Ford’s proved with the Focus that Americans will snap up domestic-brand C segment hatchbacks as long as they don’t suck like the Caliber did.
the Charger and Chrysler 300 do not have the least intention of appealing to the euro-crowd???…. ok not the Charger but the 300 is quite popular over here, rebadged as a Lancia Thema on the continent and wearing the Chrysler 300 name in the UK/Ireland market you see a good few of them around. they are seen as an alternative to the 5 series BMW for people with a preference for flash over performance. they would mostly be powered by that same 3litre V6 diesel that was in the Ram 1500 featured the other day
It seems like there are a fair number of non-U.S. buyers who appreciate the braggadocio and character of unapologetically American cars (at least of the old-Mustang/’60s-Cadillac variety), but are uniquely disdainful of American cars that strive to be “Euro.” There would probably be a lesson there except that the former don’t necessarily make any sense for European conditions.
My friend was recently looking to purchase a new Challenger, so we both headed to the local Dodge dealer to test drive one. We drove a brand new V-6 Challenger with 27 miles on it, and if I didn’t know it was a V-6 I would have bet my life it was a V-8. It was fast, felt refined, sounded great, and gets good mileage to boot. If I were to purchase one I would hands down go for the V-6. The V-8 is for bragging rights and shear wastefulness, in my opinion. If you have the extra cash and want to tell everyone that you have a V-8, then great. Go for it. My friend was torn because he said he couldn’t justify buying a Challenger without a V-8. His insurance quotes were insane so he decided not to purchase one at all. I still say grab the V-6 and enjoy. Who cares what other people think anyway?
You Can’t get a manual with the V6 in the Challenger. If you want to row your own, you have to get the V8.
Regardless, I’m of the opposite opinion; if you think you can afford a new car of this sort, but the fuel economy difference or insurance cost difference makes the V8 vs V6 unaffordable, than you really couldn’t afford such a car to start with.
IMO, if you’re wasting money by buying a new car (thanks to depreciation, it’s always a waste from a pure accounting perspective), you really shouldn’t hVe the price of gas as a factor. If you can’t afford gas, you either drive a ridiculous amount (and those are the folks for whom a Prius makes sense), or you really ought to be buying an off-lease used car instead.
If the price of gas or insurance is causing you to have to get the V6, you really should be looking at a used Challenger instead.
I agree with your points too, but what I was trying to get at was that the V-6 felt so much like a V-8 that the V-8 seemed totally unneccessary, thats all.
IMHO, I don’t know how it’s possible for you to say that, I think the V6 is okay, at best, and the V8 makes it so much better.
The thing is, if you just want the looks, which is what many of the buyers of this type of car want, you’re still better off with the V6, the 323hp in the base Camaro is pushing HP numbers that the SS and WS6 cars were offering just a decade before. Why pay for HP that you aren’t going to use for the most part?
Holding the pedal to the floor on a modern V6 pony car for an extended period of time is enough to get you into “arrest me speeds” in no time at all, it isn’t that you have to “settle” for the V6 version, its that the V6 versions of these cars, probably for the first time ever, aren’t a penalty. Back in the 4th generation F-body you were stuck with either a 160hp 3.4 V6 or the later 200hp 3.8, both which were ok, but nothing spectacular. The best thing they did to these cars, thanks to modern automotive technology, is make the base versions decent performers out of the box.
I love V8’s. The sound, smoothness and feel is different from any other engine type. Regardless of power levels or other practical considerations, if a car I’m interested in has a naturally aspirated V8 option, that’s the one I will buy.
The new Challenger’s interior is leaps and bounds better than pre-refresh. I saw one on the lot with houndstooth interior. Little stuff like that just makes me want to take it home, kinda like puppy dogs and their eyes.
When my Astra was becoming a problem, I was looking for something to replace it with and ended up at the Dodge complex. The new 200 is beautiful, but pricey when loaded up with bells and whistles.
I bought a 2013 Dart Limited Special Edition in January of ’14, so the $25,440 sticker (plus the $2k dealer market adjustment for a $26440 total asking price) was mine for $18k with discounts and rebates. Consumer Reports said it was their most reliable car with the 2.0L engine, which mine has. I’ve got 20k trouble free miles on it.
Xenon headlights and racetrack tail lights, Bluetooth, an iPad sized nav screen with backup camera, heated leather seats and steering wheel, sunroof, remote start, etc. all in a fun to drive at 33 mpg average package. Really love it.
Will it be a curbside classic? Probably not. But it’s a reality check that isn’t a penalty box. Some day I’ll own the classic but it’ll be parked next to something like DartVader, a perfect daily driver. My brother liked it so much he went and bought an identical one (less color).
It seems that down here in south Florida, there are tons of V6’s on the road, because, after all, its about looking good, there are lots of the R/T and SRT ones too, overall this is a pony car market down here, you see tons of these and the Camaros are so common that you would swear that they were giving them away.
I don’t know any young people that have these newer pony cars, seems like it’s the older crowd buying them.
Indeed, the ponycar market has always been aimed more at older, better-off people who want to ‘feel’ young. Most young people simply don’t have the wherewithal to afford a new, sporty car, even one with a base V6.
With that said, I’ve never been overly fond of the new Challenger, and wish Chrysler had went with a two-door Charger with retro cues from the classic ’68-’70 version, which many regard as one of the best looking cars to ever come out of Detroit.
Depends on where you are I guess, down here I see everyone from teenagers to 60 year old women driving any number of Camaro, Challenger or Mustang.
Fairmont mustang is especially affordable among teens. One of the most common car in university even in a snow country
They are all very popular with young people in LA, at least in my neck of the woods.
Youngest person I know with a Challenger is 28, oldest is 75, most are in their late 40’s to about 60. Camaro owners range from 40(about) to 62. Mustang owners are all over the place, from a 20 year old (Grandpa left him some bucks when he died) to a 78 year old guy whose wife died and he decided to make his last car a fun one. He has a bright red GT with silver stripes. I think these cars would sell better if they were priced sanely, I think they are all way overpriced, and most young people have to be practical and can’t blow over $30K on a new car. On top of that, insurance isn’t cheap for young people either.
Mustang comes with a 6/stick. It’s a fun car.
Challenger 6 only comes with auto. Boo! Hiss!
I’d have been interested in the Mustang with the manual and V-6 until Ford uglified it.
I’d like to drive one of the refreshed Challengers and 200s. I rented a 200 in 2013 and was very underwhelmed, especially with the fit and finish. This is a good reason to go to the DC auto show this year, as if I needed another one!
I hate the sound of V6 engines so regardless of rarity x years from now I’ll still fawn over the V8s. The thing about the new Challengers is they all look exactly the same regardless of engine – they all have the power dome hood, they all have the same fascias, wheels are fairly nondescript across the board, ect. Hellcat excluded, as it’s got quite a bit of aesthetic tweaks to match the beast underneath, there’s very little aesthetic separation between the V6, the HEMI, and the SRT8 besides decals and maybe a ductail spoiler(all of which can can seemingly be applied to your V6 at the dealer).
I can’t see myself years from now finding one of these at a show and being able to discern between them then either, even with the hood up it’s hard to tell since they all have boring plastic covers covering the engine
An optioned up V6 does look a lot like a V8 one, similar to how a V6 Camaro RS looks like an SS, the Challenger offers a similar package with larger wheels and stripes, but I do see a good number of base V6 ones on the road, and you can tell those are V6’s, especially with their narrow little rental car spec wheels.
“I hate the sound of V6 engines”
^ This ^
Besides that, when I think of a V6 I think minivan, family sedan, or soccer mom style SUV/CUV. In other words…not for enthusiasts or performance. I-6 engines are more suited to sports cars or high torque applications.
It’s not how fast you go, it’s how you go fast. 300 hp should be fun for anyone…
That said, the Challenger just never did anything for me. I have grown quite fond of the 300 and Charger, especially since the refresh, with the Dodge being far more brash, the 300 sophisticated, but still quite American (ok Canadian). I’d love to see them slap the 300 face on the Magnum body like they did for Europe.
Can’t quite agree with the Dart and 200 being all that…time will tell. And the minivans may lead in value (certainly with their steep discounts), but they don’t come close to measuring up to the Odyssey or new Kia except in space utilization. Plus the best looking Chryco minivan is dead – the Routan.
I hate the sound of a gas pump clicking even more! A 300 hp V6? I’ll take one.
yeah that extra 4 dollars a fill sure is brutal.
Think of it this way, the V8 soundtrack will save you hundreds of dollars on itunes 😀
Yeah the base base wheels are pretty dorky but I believe the the optional wheel on the V6 is the same exact wheel as the V8s so it’s pretty murky to tell what’s what on the street. I do have a difficult time discerning the RS from the SS Camaro as well now that you mention it, although I admittedly pay more attention to the Challenger when I see them vs. the Camaro, I never warmed up to the 5th gen styling(I think the 2014 restyle was an improvement though).
That’s my view of V6s too. Straight 6s – good, V6 – compromised minivan motor. Doesn’t matter if one makes 2-3-400 peak horsepower they’re boring soulless disposable engines designed with the primary purpose of being mounted sideways in a cramped FWD engine bay. That’s just my dinosaur viewpoint though, bitter that all of 2014s technology is being wasted on them rather than straight 6s.
I liked it better when the V6 had single exhaust, you could easily tell on the street what model it was.
I hate the sound of most 4 cylinder engines. They immediately make me think economy car regardless of how many horses they put out. A perfect example is the new 50K Lincoln MKC which is 4 cylinder turbo only. It was disconcerting starting up what sounded like a 20K Ford Focus!
I agree that they do look very similar, except for the Hellcat. The hood is cimpletely different. The Challengers were in my opinion one of the best looking cars d very made. That is why I have owned a 72 and 74, looking forward to getting the Hellcat next. They were also pulling a full G on a skid pad wuthering a few mods by the mid 80s, small block powered versions that is. But these are just my thoughts and I respect your right to disagree.
I like it a lot,not as much as the new Mustang.If I could get a pink Challenger I’d like it even more
I was available a couple of years ago, I don’t know if it was a special edition only or just never ordered.
It was Furious Fuchsia or something like that….
Thanks Carmine I really like the pink Mopars.There were quite a few special versions of the new Challenger the Yellow Jacket was another I liked a lot
I saw a Challenger on the lot the other day. Color was stated to be the old “Plum Crazy.” Or as we used to call it back in the ’70s, “Statutory Grape.”
The other Mopar name for the color was ‘In-Violet’. Can’t recall which was Dodge and which was Plymouth, though.
Dodge was plum crazy, Plymouth in-violet IIRC
I sat in the pink one at the Chicago auto show a few years ago, It’s more of a metallic light violet compared to the genuine panther pink/moulin rouge used on the 70-71 cars.
Statutory Grape. hehehe
Personally, I cant ever see me giving a base level ponycar a second look. The appeal of this kind of car is the sound, the power, and the overall ridiculousness of way too much engine in a light and tight car. That’s as ‘Murican as it gets. If you want to think sensibility or practicality, go see your friendly Toyota or Honda dealer. They’ll have something with 4 doors, good mpg…beige or grey of course.
Now that said, a base level pony car is priced pretty comparable to bottom feeder penalty boxes. Theyre a bit more spendy to own and operate but its not worlds apart. AND you have a real, honest to God car that you can be proud to own, not some faceless appliance. I think that the upfront expense will be offset come resale/trade in time. You can ask more for a car that people actually WANT as opposed to being just stuck with because of economic or situational reasons.
Great write up. I was saying to my Dad just the other day how lucky we are to have cars like the Challenger, Camaro and Mustang. It gives me great pride to see them become such long lasting successes. I am particularly fond of the Camaro for some reason.
More to the point of being yourself and succeeding at it are the 300C and Charger. What wonderful names! In the first gen I greatly preferred the 300 but now it’s the Charger — it’s the car I would get if I needed a roomy 4-door sedan.
It’s hard to argue the case right now with $2.00/gallon gas but I hope they have plans to offer the VM Motori diesel at least on the 300.
Actually, according to this recent C and D article, the Challenger V6 represents roughly half of total sales, far from making it a fleet special like the article suggests. I own a 2011 Mustang with a 305 hp V6, and have also driven a rental V6 Camaro with 312 hp. While substantially heavier, I’m sure this V6 Chally is more than you ever need on public roads. It is the 318/Torqueflite for the modern day, i.e., more than adequate performance for the vast majority of buyers, not to mention cheaper and more economical. I love it.
Here is that article…http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-dodge-challenger-v-6-first-drive-review
I will probably get a Chrysler 300 this next time around with the v6. As I’ve said before, I’m basically the anti-enthusiast and could care less about sheer performance but compared with cars I like, it performs well enough. I like the way it looks, that is the most important thing to me. A Deville with the Northstar has a little bit less HP (official stat wise at least) than the 3.6L Chrysler v6 but with a bit more torque. Having driven both of them pretty often, I’d say the edge goes to the Deville for smoothness but that was the older tranny and not the new 8 speed one for the 300. Performance wise, just by my observation, they were pretty much the same though the RWD of the 300 gave a more enjoyable driving dynamic than the FWD Deville.
I really like the idea of a RWD v8 sedan, but the 300 doesn’t look good with a vinyl top or spokes so I’ll just scratch that Brougham itch with an old Fleetwood when I get the garage space.
My first thought before I drove the 300 or looked up its performance specs was that it would be more akin to my Impala but obviously the GM 3400 v6 is just not in the same class as the 300’s v6.
300 hp??? I remember when the Corvette finally crawled above 200hp. I must be really old. And when i think of V6’s I don’t think of minivans, I think of the Dino 246. Though I finally own my first V6, in an 18 year old Toyota truck, I probably wouldn’t kick one of these Challengers out of my driveway. It’s certainly fast enough to be capable of reliving Vanishing Point.
I think of the 2015 Challenger V6 as the modern equivalent of the 340-equipped Challenger. Now before you all start doing a simultaneous spit-take, consider some similarities: performance is equal (if not a little bit better), less weight on the nose (just as the 340 had a weight advantage over the 383/440/426 Hemi) no doubt helping the handling plus removing quite a few pounds off of the curb weight, and both the old 340 and the 3.6 Pentastar were and are very capable engines for their size. Affordability and bang-for-the buck are important in my book-I’d love to have a 2015 SE with the Super Track Pak (around 30k). I think the 8-speed automatic has made the 3.6 a more appealing proposition, plus the interior re-do is erases a bunch of the old Damlier/Cerebus -era cheap plastic stigma.
Years later update……In March 2021, I purchased a late production (built in October) IndiGo Blue 2020 Challenger GT (rwd). My first sentence above still rings true.
Basically, the rwd GT is a V6-equipped RT. (better suspension, brakes, deep-bolstered seats, 3:08 gears, the NACA-duct hood, and VR-speed rated Goodyear Eagle RS-A… enabling the 130-mph speed limiter in the ecu to be eliminated)
The shorter rear gear used (compared to the 2:56 gears in the SXT) makes all of the difference in the world, performance-wise It definitely wakes up the Pentastar 3.6. (along with my addition of an AFE cold air intake in conjunction the “Hellcat” intake tube modification).
I have thoroughly enjoyed my Challenger in the 2-1/2 years that i have owned it. The 3.6/Torqueflite 8 combo works well together. Having the weight off the nose doesn’t hurt things, handling wise. I even get a lot of compliments on the car.
Sure, it would’ve been nice to afford a ScatPak widebody (finances did not allow, sadly), but I am happy with what I did get.
When depreciation finally made my dream car, the Lexus SC within my means in 2005, I thought only the 400 V8 would be the one, I test drove many. Then I found a mint 300, and despite less power, the six ( though its inline) was actually more satisfying and fun. And she’s in my garage, near mint still, if wasn’t for those pesky numbers marring up the odometer. I know the 2jz s are so easy and cheap to turbo, but I could care less. And I’m grateful the ricers are oblivious of this, let them molest Civics and 240 SXs. I want the SC to stay cheap, in case I wreck mine.
The new Challenger can’t hold a candle to the original. I know, my first car was a 1970 Challenger. It was not a muscle car, it was a green coupe with a white vinyl top, a 318 V8, automatic, with a column mounted shifter. While it didn’t have a lot of power, what it did have was style. Dodge got the proportions of the new Challenger all wrong. It looks like a parody of the original. Nevertheless, because most of today’s cars are so hideously ugly, it can be considered good looking. I cannot afford a new one, but I have seriously considered a used base model. The Challenger, Camaro, and Mustang (through 2014) are IMO the only decent looking American cars made today. Since Ford totally destroyed the 2015 Mustang, that only leaves the Challenger and Camaro.
Good to hear you say that about the Mustang. I never liked it in the pics and was surprised at how well it was received by the media. I thought it was going to look too sport coupe-ish ala Ford Probe. But I saw one on the freeway yesterday, approaching it from behind. It looked plenty beefy. When I got to the front though, holy smokes. Worse than even the new Mercedes. Pedestrian protection requirements are no excuse.
The Challenger looks that way because it uses the 4-door sedan structure underneath. That’s why it’s so tall. They did a good job hiding it on the sides but you can really see it in back.
The Camaro is free from those particular compromises but it has one too, its large size.
Challengers have always been my favorite Mopars. My first was a 72 B5 metallic blue with a white landau vinyl top. A tweeked 318 that I shifted at 7200 rpm, nice car. My second was a 74 with Rally option and so many options it had 2 fender tags. Replaced the 318 with a professionally built 360 (500+ hp). Shifting at 8500 rpm and destroying everything it encouneed until I spun the bearings. Back to the drawing board, chrome moly crank 305 degree cam, 12.5:1 pistons and every machining trick from Shelby and Chrysler speed secret (I won’t load you down with details ). Now at 600+hp and requiring 108 octane it was insane. Now I can buy a Hellcat w/707hp and a warranty, but wait up to 22 mpg, my others wouldn’t get that unless being towed.
Verdict, let the good times roll.
I have a 2011 Mustang V6 that I have owned since new (August, 2010). It is a perfectly fine car and the 300 HP is more than adequate for 99% of my driving wants/needs. The one change I would make (and may, if I decide to keep the Mustang long term) is to swap the stock 2.73 final drive for something with a little more pull, say a 3.55 or even a 3.73. One has to spool up the OHC engine to generate real thrust and a shorter final drive would make this easier. The real challenge is trying to justify spending the money to replace ring & pinion gears that are perfectly good as they are.
Question for you modern V6 Pony car owners.
Do you notice/miss the lack of a limited slip diff in it?
The only thing that bothers me about the V6 Camaro (automatic), Challenger and all the Chargers (in R/T spec and below) is that you can’t get a LSD in them. I understand that modern traction control systems are great, but there must still be instances of the one-wheel-peel coming out of driveways and side streets in the wet.
There’s always the aftermarket, depending on the differential. Most non-enthusiasts wouldn’t know the difference.
True that P-Dan,
I know it just annoys me to no end in my 74 FB., curious to know if it is even an issue with the newer models.
It strikes me this is really the true successor to the personal luxury coupes of the Seventies and Eighties. I think i said in an earlier thread, Chrysler should really develop their own luxury variant of it.
A V6, really? Unless you are just more into show than go, there is no alternative to a nice V8, add it’s ability to shut down half the cylinders when not needed makes it even better. Everyone has been stuck on a narrow two lane road behind a jerk that slows down in the no passing zones and then speeds up when it is legal to pass. I always loved my ability to show them my tail lights in barely 100 feet after they tried this, but with a 500+hp small block it’s was barely an unexpected result.
If you’re worried about insurance rates, you’re not really Challenger owner material.
To put things into perspective an old Challenger slant six automatic would probably do the 0-60 run in 12-13 seconds if in good tune! This new one can do that same run in the low 6 second range which is certainly quick. The 2011-2014 Mustang 3.7 with performance gears does that run in the low 5 second range which is what some of the most powerful F-body cars ran in 1998-2002 with their LS1 engines. There comes a point when race car 3-4 second 0-60 times are plain unnecessary for the majority of drivers that aren’t going straight to the track. That job is for the Hellcat’s, ZL1 Camaro’s and Mustang Cobra’s etc to name a few.
In regards to the 0-60 times as quoted by Dodge for even the SRT Challenger they don’t come close to being accurate. The time I test drove a 2013 with 470 hp the salesman let me do a acceleration run. I launched at too low rpm and shiftEd too high, but still did a 3.74 second 0-60. He said one person had done a 3.5. Dodge only claims to do it in 5 seconds. So it makes me wonder what the right driver can do with 707hp, if you can control wheel spin. I do know thar the 11.2 quarters were ran by launching in second gear. First is really more of a exhibition of tire shredding. Who needs 707hp, no one. Who wants 707hp, a lot of people, Call it a status symbol, or just wanting to see if you can handle it, the reasons don’t matter. As for sales Dodge received more than 4500 orders for Hellcat Challengers the first 5 days that they took orders, go figure there were only just over 6300 74 Challengers sold total. It does deserve mentioning that the last 74 was built in February of 74.
The V6 makes way more power than the 318 V8 in my former ’70 Challenger. But it does not make the right sound. However, newer cars are not much for sound. My ’70 drove like a real car. Today’s cars a almost completely smooth and quiet. My neighbor took me for a ride in his base model 2012 Corvette when he first bought it. It was a big letdown. I might as well have been in a Cadillac. I have also driven an ’06 V6 Mustang. Same thing. You couldn’t even tell you were in a car. They have completely refined out the driving experience.
I am retired now, and can’t afford a V8 Challenger, Camaro, or Mustang. I get my kicks from my V8 powered Chevy S10 pickup with a manual transmission and open pipes. I would like to have a V6 Challenger just because my first car 40 years ago was a Challenger. I also like the 2005-2009 Mustang, and they are a lot cheaper. The V6 may not be a muscle car, but neither was my 318 powered ’70 Challenger.
I hope they do not try to turn the Challenger into a personal luxury car. It’s the wrong body style, and IMO anyway, has too much luxury already. I’d like a bare bones pavement shredder that still gave you the sensations of driving. Like the original Roadrunner. Delete all the sound deadening insulation and stiffen up the suspension.