Laurence Jones made a pretty good case for the 1st gen FWD H-body cars in his CC. His points about their advantages over the B-body (a far more popularly worshiped deity on this site) are all valid but fail to sway me, a man who generally likes his sedans V8 powered and RWD. The 1st generation cars look far too much like their A-body kin and are far too dimensionally similar to move me to desire. As the proud teenage owner of a 1982 Chevy Celebrity, when I was given the keys to a 1990 Buick LeSabre (in 1996 while my car was in for service) the only reason I could discern for choosing an H over an A in those days was to get that smooth torque-y 3800 V6. If I could have purchased an A with a 3800 then IMHO there would have been no reason to pay more for a small (on the outside) H. A manufacturer’s “large car” should have more PRESENCE. I agreed with the famous Lincoln commercial that showcased a confused valet: (Video here)
But the real reason I hated the H-body Delta 88, Buick LeSabre, and Pontiac Bonneville was they killed my favorite B-bodies (Delta 88, Buick LeSabre, and Pontiac Parisienne). The Caprice was left alone to defend the crown, and as Laurence mentioned in his write up, GM divisions were suddenly faced with “midsize” cars across the showroom from these cars that were more “prestigious” looking. Paul has talked about how he “lost the faith” in GM during his growth from childhood into adulthood, this was MY “losing the faith” moment. I still loved the last remaining B but I found my eye wandering to the boxy Panthers, I stopped dreaming of “making it” by owning a shiny new ’88 or a ’98 I started to check out the measurements of Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Cars. At age 8 (1985 – the birth of the FWD H) the General started to lose my interest.
Then one fine day in 1992 I saw her, the new Pontiac Bonneville. I was in a mall in Lima, OH for one of those dealers’ shows where the local car dealers fill the halls of the mall with new cars hoping to find prospects. My father and I always went to these things because it was a way to get to see the new cars, touch them, feel them, and sit in them. At the end of a corridor on a small stage there she was, glittering under the light… a new Pontiac Bonneville. Smooth curvaceous flanks, rounded front, that rump – with or without the “exposed thong” like spoiler.
There I was at age 15 on the edge of manhood and my receiving my driver’s license and I was face to grille with a sexy American sedan. With that body and trunk I didn’t care which wheels were driven, an open airy cockpit, optional wheels that were 2in larger in diameter than the 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Dad had at home and a full 3 in bigger than the 13in rims on the Celebrity that I was learning to drive. A 3.8 ltr (roughly 231 cubic inches for my non metric heart) put out 170hp (30 more than the 307 Olds + Quadrajet combo in the Cutlass) through a 4T60-E. My heart pounded my pulse raced but my father, whose goal it was to see EVERYTHING at the show that day, said we had to move on.
I thought we would never be reunited, oh sure I saw her (and her sisters) on the road but never came in close contact again until a fateful day in 1996. It was summer and I had been mowing the lawn (my parents massive 3 acres, one 46in swath of John Deere riding mower at a time). There was talk of a new car for my parents in the air but my father being a dyed in the wool usedcar buyer meant that his searches usually took months so I wasn’t expecting to see anything soon.
I finished, parked the mower and was walking toward the house. It was after 6 and time for my father to be home. The shed was a good acre from the house and as I drew nearer home I could see a white car parked in front of the garage. My first thought was that the Oldsmobile had been backed out of the garage for some reason but then the form started to take shape. Could it be? I wiped the sweat from my eyes, but it was still there. A Bonneville? How could it be? None of our relatives owned one. I got up to the car, it was a white SE model, appearance package turbine style aluminum wheels and spoiler but with front bench seat and column shift. I resisted the temptation to climb behind the wheel into the unlocked car but went inside for dinner and a shower. My father was talkative at dinner; he had received a call from his best friend Don, who worked on the used car lot at the local Chevy, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile dealer. Don knew my Dad was in the market and had called him up regarding a clean new Bonneville that had been taken in trade and an extended test drive was quickly arranged. My father raved about the interior room (more than the Cutlass Supreme), superior fuel economy, solid acceleration, and well tuned suspension. He had formed this opinion only driving it 10 miles home from the dealer.
To my delight my father proposed that he and I go for a test drive and that I be permitted to drive. I sat down in the driver seat, lowered the center arm rest, and found myself in a much more comfortably snug situation than the flat bottomed buckets of my Celebrity or the cushy pillow tops of the Brougham epoch Oldsmobile that my father currently held the title to. The interior was a light shade of grey and covered in that wonderfully grip-y corduroy style fabric that GM used by the truckload at one point in its history. I adjusted the mirrors beginning with the rear view and catching a glimpse of that tail in the reflection, and I reflectively smiled. I adjusted the side mirrors and my mind wandered to how the flanks curved like the hips of a woman. I backed down the wide driveway, turned the car around, and headed out onto the road. I piloted the car down our little country road a few hundred feet and onto Ohio State Hwy 613, a nice stretch that alternates between straight and curvy from Miller City to Leipsic, OH. I felt in command and control, this would be no one handed “ship’s captain” affair as was typical of being handed the keys to the Cutlass.
My father was in the passenger seat playing with the secondary controls and even popping the owner’s manual cassette tape into the tape deck. (An owner’s manual on cassette, what will they think of next?) I brought the car up to my then customary 5 over the legal limit and set the cruise, my eyes moving constantly back and forth between the road and the dashboard. Tachometer, the first I had ever seen that was part of the factory layout. Large easy to use HVAC controls, a speedometer that went past 85mph, a good factory stereo, and all these things were revelations to me living a sheltered American car only life in the Midwest.
My Dad and I were quickly approaching a pair of banked turns that had little yellow advisement signs that said “35 mph”. The car felt so rock sold, so stable, had absorbed the frost heaves and imperfections of the highway so well (better than my Chevy and Dad’s Olds anyway) that I made the decision NOT to hit the brakes; I was going to take it at speed! This sort of maneuver would have caused the Celebrity to under-steer like the nose heavy pig it was when handing was involved, the Oldsmobile would have tried to swap the front end for the rear. The Bonne sailed through, a little body lean, but nothing dramatic.
My father was struck silent and quickly the next curve came, a curve to the right as opposed to the left as the first had been. My father’s silence made me nervous so I kicked off the cruise with a tap of the brake and allowed the car to slow a bit as the curve came. I was right at 45mph as I guided the car through the bank of the curve and suddenly feeling cocky, I applied steady pressure to the go pedal and powered out of the curve. Fat Michelin tires stayed glued to the asphalt with nary a whimper of protest. I could hear the grin in my Dad’s voice as he said: “Don’t tell your mom we did that.” My brain was suddenly willing to accept the premise of a FWD performance car and that “performance” car meant something more than muscle car. The bolder new body had allowed me to see the H’s potential. A few days later my father made a deal on the car that was acceptable to him.
The car stayed in the family for a little over 10 years, the last three or so with my Sister who had finally given up on her Oldsmobile Achieva. My parents generously donated the Pontiac to her to make sure their grandchildren had something reliable to be ferried around in.
I soldiered on with the Celebrity, then the Cutlass, but I could never get the Bonneville out of my mind. I flirted briefly with purchasing one when my Cutlass was stolen in November 2000 but my budget steered me toward a gently used 1997 Ford Escort Wagon. The 1992-1999 Bonnevilles are getting old now and I had sort of given up on acquiring one. I moved from the classroom to a Central Office position in August 2010 I was aware of the old Bonneville with battered paint and slowly peeling door guard moldings but I was not aware of the district’s processes for disposing of vehicles they no longer needed. I knew someone was driving it a few times a month but I never saw the car leave, I would just notice that it was gone, and then a few days later that it was parked in a different spot.
My awareness and participation in the Public Surplus Vehicle auction is well documented and now I play a waiting game. The winning bidder has 10 days (from 10/03/11) to pay for his items, if he does not choose the Bonne then she is mine. Will her title belong to me or has she teased me again to ultimately give her heart to another?
To me the 1992-1999 Bonneville represented GM really “trying” again to get it right. Yes it was still badge engineering with the Buick LeSabre, Oldsmobile 88, and Pontiac Bonneville being triplets under the skin but interior and exterior styling was still different enough to matter. Each division was still given enough autonomy to make the car their own.
1 recommendation is flush/check out the 4T60-E soon as possible. My dad’s 1995 Eighty Eight LS is at 190,000 miles. Beyond the Series II intake gasket debacle 8 years ago, it’s running great, except there’s the slipping between shifts 2 and 3.
I told dad “Have you ever flushed the transmission?” “Why would I do that?” he said. I guess when prior you drove a Turbo Hydramatic that you did nothing but replace vacuum hoses on you think all transmissions operate the same way.
But I digress. The 2nd generation H bodies got everything that was wrong with the 1st generation right (well eventually, The ergonomics on the LeSabre sucked all the way to the 2000 restyle, and… well those intake manifold gaskets). The only vice I think the Bonneville had was the dashboard got overblown and plasticky looking when they redid the dash either in 1995 or 96. I still think the Eighty Eight (especially a dark colored 93 or 94 LSS) is the best looking of them all, but a fully optioned spoilerless 92-95 Bonneville would get my blood pumping too. The Bonneville was so beautifully athletic looking without the SSE/i doodads.
My dad is the same way with transmissions. Having received his driver’s licence in 1971 and having driven cars from the 60s and early 70s for many years he’s used to the heavy duty automatic trans that needs no servicing. Lucky for him living in the country in a flairly flat midwest he can usually get away with no transmission issues.
And I too think the LSS is AWESOME but they are very hard to find given there cancellation in favor of the Intrigue/Aurora. LeSabre’s are as common as dryer lint but I have thought of buying one and putting Bilstein shocks and adding swaybars from a SSEi.
Nice story. In alot of ways I can somewhat feel your pain.
My Parent’s have been GM people, Buick and Pontiac specifically since 1989. They had a 89 6000 STE/AWD, which is missed dearly by everyone in the family. Currently they have a 2005 Bonneville GXP…
I had always been on the lookout for a Bonneville SSEi, but they always seemed to get away from me. In 2002 I purchased my first new car, a Formula Firehawk. I quickly realized I would be keeping it until I’m dead, so it was time to become a multi-car owner. I looked at a black 96 SSEi, but I couldn’t accept the deal the dealer made me. I ended up getting a slightly used 02 Cavalier Z24, and the day I picked it up the other dealer called and offered to sell me the SSEi for what I wanted to pay for it….ugggg!!!
I would look at them on again and off again and had some more slip through my hands. In 2007 I finally decided it was time! I found a leftover 2005 (yes a 2 year old left over!) at a dealer in Kentucky near the Corvette factory. I quickly set up a road trip with my then girlfriend (now wife) to spend the week traveling the south in my 2000 Trans Am (the “beater of the month”) and visit family and friends. Somehow..and I will never admit it, we managed to drive my the dealer with the Black GXP sitting out front on our way home back to NH. Needless to say, 2 hours later, we were driving home in a H-body Bonneville GXP and leaving the Trans Am behind to live in the south. That is the short of it.
Of course I quickly realized I was going to keep the GXP as another collector car until I die, so it was time to become a 3 car owner and park the GXP next to the Firehawk in the garage.
Is it crazy to have a 02 Firehawk with 7k miles and a 05 Bonnie GXP with 4K miles?
I don’t think so!
Dan, what a great story! I can see the passion in your writing! I hope the elusive Bonny will be yours, you deserve it. Thanks for the story, I look forward to more.
The H bodies were great rides, I really liked the Bonnevilles without all the silly “go fast” cladding the higher end models were festooned with.
Laurence, the 3.8 never had the intake manifold gasket issue. This was the purvey of the 60′ V-6 family, especially the 3.4. GM knew about the problem for years and didn’t do anything about it; dealers made a fortune fixing them as it was twelve hours of retail labour and an experienced mechanic could do it in seven. The problem was made worse by the infamous Dexcool, which was corrosive.
The idea that FWD cannot handle well is pure poppycock. If the car is properly designed and set up a FWD configuration will handle well for 99% of drivers 99% of the time and give much better packaging and interior room. My own car is a sport-sedan and it has barely any understeer or body roll. On a track a RWD might be better, or with very high power applications, but the average driver is never going to see any disadvantage. The handling of the H body was leaps and bounds better than any RWD B body.
The Buick is still my favourite and there are still tons of them around this part of Bolshevik Land and I considered buying one more than once.
Well, both my dad and my friend who inherited her grandmother in laws 3800 Series II V6 Regal (a 1996) around 95-100K miles had that lovely all of a sudden coolant filling the whole engine issue, in both cases costing $1300 to repair. It was due to (at least the first Series II 3800s) having cheaper intake manifold materials compared to the Series I 3800s in the name of weight savings.
Both cars haven’t had issues since when those intake manifold gaskets were replaced with aftermarket ones. It wasn’t just the 60 degree family that had this issue.
I had the same thing happen to my beater 97 Lesabre at 88K miles. it turns out that the egr passage through the plastic intake manifold eventually wears through the water jacket that passes next to it to keep the throttle body warm in the winter.
$170.00 later and a couple hours of my time and it had a new intake manifold in it with a metal sleeve in the egr passage.
Lots of people say “cheap plastic manifolds”, but many many cars have them, including the LS series V8s, Ford’s V8’s and V6’s, the Ecotech, many many foreign makes. It is lighter, provides more precise and smoother airflow in the intake, and doesn’t suffer from as sever heat soaking as an aluminum of iron intake….GM just goofed with the EGR passage.
I got ride of the Lesabre 5K miles later when a 98 Eldorado with 45K caught my eye! Other than that I’m sure the Buick is still chugging along.
I always kind of liked these. Although I never sat in them, the seats with those big Mercedes-style headreasts always looked really comfy.
They were comfy, the longest trip I took in the drivers seat was from Miller City, OH to Garfield Hieghts, OH (170 miles). It was for a job interview the summer after I got my Bachelors and Dad loaned me the car cause he knew what a pain the Cutlass (which was mine by then) would be on the turnpike (speed limits recently rasied at that point) with the E-Quadrajet having all 4brls open almost the whole trip. It was on the cusp of the July 4th weekend in 1999 and the Turnpike saw the highest single day traffic volume in it’s history to that point. I didn’t get the job but weaving in and out of the heavy traffic, averaging around 70mph, made me appreciate that car even more. My desire only increased. The only payment my Dad asked for was that the tank be full when I returned it.
Well Dan, I hope you get to take it home. The comfort of an H body is hard to beat.
My LeSabre is currently sitting in the back of the garage collecting dust, as I have my Mystique back. Some days I think about just selling them both and just buying one nice new car and being done with it. But then I look at it and sit on those wonderfully comfortable Limited-spec seats and say…”I don’t know what to do”.
IF I sold the Buick, I would want it to go to a good home, because I wouldn’t want it to be destroyed. It may still be just an H to some, but it still has a lot of the classic GM, you know, the good part, in it.
-Richard
That Lincoln commercial is brilliant and hilarious. When badge engineering becomes the standard of the world, the world’s a sorrier place.
Sounds like this set of siblings was a better example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_H_platform_(FWD)
Pontiac was definitely going for the “American BMW” image back then, and in case you didn’t get the message, there was that Hofmeister kink in the C-pillar. I agree that the Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles were definitely improved by the ’92 redesign. I’m not sure I feel the same way about the ’92 LeSabre which seems so clearly aimed at the AARP set. The Park Avenue of the same vintage, on the other hand, is a thing of beauty.
Looking on Autotrader tonight I found a 92 LeSabre, blue with blue vinyl top (tasteful, not padded and fake convertibled, more like they did in the days that vinyl tops were first introduced as factory options) and it had white walls and wirewheel covers. I’m one of those guys who imediately thought about the “sleeper” possiblities. Upgrade the suspension from one of the other H’s (LSS or SSE) experiment with minor ways of finding extra power, adjust the transmission a little (everything I’ve seen online indicates that the 4T60-E is adjustable for shift feel and shift point) and suddenly you’ve got a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Eh, if you’re gonna do it, do it right. Bonneville SSEi, Eighty Eight LSS or Park Avenue Ultra. They’re all “sleepers” at this point, so stay as far away from anything with the dorky wire wheel covers and atrocious vinyl tops as possible.
I prefer the “we’re trying so hard to be American BMW” thing of the Pontiacs anyway. Somehow Pontiac made it work better in the 90s than Cadillac’s desparation lately to be BMW. Cadillac “BMWs that drink Pabst” as one TTAC commenter said.
“Heineken” kink or not, those Bonnevilles were really sharp-looking cars. The only thing I didn’t like was Pontiac’s penchant for sticking that awful cladding on everything they built for too many years.
A guy down the street owned a nice, dark red one and those tail lights (when thay all worked) was a nice, creative touch. At the time, I was still driving Chrysler offerings and GM was still anathema to me, probably the wrong attitude, as I missed out on having a better car until we bought our Intrepid, but that’s the way it goes!
Another great article, Dan, and it still grinds me that I’m older than your dad!
By the way, I still think you should put steer horns on your F-150, here’s what a guy in our neighborhood did to his old Camry…
FWIW Zachman I’d like the W-bodys better if more of them had come with 3800/3.9/3.6VVTs and less 2.8/3.1/3.4 V6 – Dan needs more power. Plus the rear seat room of the H-bodys has always been a weakness. I’d like to be able to take 4 adults for a long trip in relative comfort and the W-body’s seat cushion is too close to the floor.
If she becomes mine, I’m torn between the cheap easy fix for the molding that peeled off and the expensive “custom” fix. The cheap fix is replace it with some wide black plastic/rubber molding like you’d find in the JC Whitney store. The expensive fix is remove all those white plastic clips (seen in the front view of the car I bid on) and fill the holes, then paint the car.
Steer horns might be a little “over the top” for my lady. Although she was completely open to the humor of me putting a “Chief Wahoo” licence plate on the front of a Pontiac (you know, Chief Wahoo is the Cleveland Indians mascot and Chief Pontiac was the namesake of the Pontiac brand.)
I did wonder why you wanted that car from the auction now I understand being able to ignore speed warning signs is good. Corner advisory signs in NZ are measured by an inertia device and really only pertain to fully laden Trucks any car should be able to maintain the speed limit anywhere. A properly designed FWD car should have all its engine weight within the wheelbase this negates the front heavy understeer some suffer from. Toyota NZ got so upset by constant critisism of its best sellers cornering ability they employed said critic to improve them The critic was former Formula 1 driver Chris Amon and subsequent Amon Coronas are awesome to throw into corners I had one a great little car not as planted as a Peugeot or my current Citroen but for a Japanese car very very good anf infinitely better than the JDM/US market versions. You should be able to aftermarket your Pontiac into a competent canyon carver have fun but be safe.
Thanks Bryce. Buying a car at an auction like that the first priorites would be inspecting every possible mechanical component, draining and changing EVERY possible fluid, and inspecting anything safety related like brakes/tires/ect. This car (IF it becomes mine) could turn into a BonnEVILle Hell Project to rival Murliee’s Impala Hell Project. But it would be a labor of love, and there’s always something satisfying about doing it yourself.
Yeah Im currently building a Hillman Minx hopefully to race spec but trying to do it on no money is frustrating The next step is to road register it then improve the handling/performance The motor from Pauls latest post would be perfect but Ive found most of the parts I need but hey its fun and the car runs and drives and its gone from a rusted wreck to a completely rust free driver in MY carport which is very satisfying.
Looks good Bryce, I saw a similar one last weekend complete with floor change & period radio
Thanx, Ive got the original radio but Ive also got a CD player from my Peugeot and an enthusiast in nearby Hastings has a floorshift snycro box from a Super Minx hell sell me. Im getting there slowly it goes well burns no oil but its british so it leaks. It corners well on the 406 Pug rims and 205 tyres I have another one sitting on 560×15 crossply razor blades but havent been game to swap em over I recall what those steered like I had some as a teen bout a thousand years ago
Neat Hillman Bryce. You’re lucky, you can buy Peugeots and Citroens. Here in Illinois forget it. I drive a Volvo V50 and really like it, but if Citroens were available I’d strongly consider it. The really interesting Euro cars haven’t been sold here in 20-30 years. The dealer I bought my car at did sell Peugeots until 1992 or so.
What a great story there Dan!
While I’m not much for the traditional 4 door sedan, these Bonnevilles you talk about in this entry I tend to like best of this series. Even the more pedestrian models have a good overall design about them.
Hopefully you’ll get one of these.
“Don’t tell your mother we did that.” Ha! I remember lines like that.
Good story, Dan. I hope you find a green one, they look sharp in a darker color. It kind of hides the cladding.
I wonder if anyone has a pic of an Olds 98 from that era. First time I saw one I thought, “This is the ugliest car on the road.” The last Buick Skylarks, in teal over silver with a pointy chrome grille, may take the crown though. 🙂
There are approximately 4 98s from that era roaming around town. Two real beaters and then a gold/beige one nicely kept by an older gentleman and one white one that actually get’s parked down the street from me at the local day spa. The one at the day spa belongs to one of the ladies that works there. I should do a CC on it, the place is owned by my fiance’s godmother and I’m sure the ladies would be amicable.
My soon to be mother-in-law had a 2nd gen H-body LeSabre that she loved but when it was wrecked by a teen driver that pulled out infront of her she replaced it with a used 98 from the same year. The 98 was one of the rare supercharged Touring Sedan models but if you ask her she still goes on about how much she loved that LeSabre. (And if I’d have known her when she owned the 98 I’d have tried to take it off her hands.)
My sister had the previous generation H body, from 1987-88?, with the 3.8 in it, she put over 300K miles on in 10 or so years it before they gave it to my nephew who kept if a few more years.
There’s a guy in my neighborhood who has two of the early-mid 90’s Bonnes. He’s transferring stuff from the rusted out SSE to a similar model SE. I walk my dogs there pretty frequently, it’s been fun to watch the transformation of the SE to a mock SSE. I never see the guy when I’m on foot, so I don’t know why he’s doing this.
I’ve never spent real time in these cars, but several years ago a couple of mid 90’s SSEi’s popped up for sale around here. One was purple, which I would have bought just for the kitsch value, but it sold before I could manage to test drive the car. The other one was black with the factory ‘lacy’ wheels and the buckskin colored leather interior. The asking price was not remotely rooted in reality, however, and I never went back to look at it again. I know a lot of people don’t like the cladding, but it doesn’t bother me.
Different strokes, I guess.
Dan, if you get the car it would be cool, but probably not practical, to keep it looking like a stock SE but add the SSEi supercharged engine. Talk about a sleeper! I have always liked Pontiac Bonnevilles. My dad had a 1979 and ever since I always had to check them out. The model I liked of the 1992-99 generation was the SLE. It had a mesh grill, lacy-spoke alloys and lower cladding, but not the wild cladding the SSE/SSEi had. I think it came out in ’93. When they stopped making Bonnevilles in 2005 I had to go to the dealer and get a brochure for one. The last couple of years (2004-05) they finally removed the cladding and they looked really clean and sharp.
The last couple of years (2004-05) they finally removed the cladding and they looked really clean and sharp.
That cladding removal BTW was done on the orders of Bob Lutz. He doesn’t usually get too much credit for that like he should. The one I bid on, I had never seen one from the 1992-1999 generation with so little cladding, below the black rub strips on the doors (the strips that have slowly peeled off) there was bare sheetmetal, not plastic. So those clips you see exposed aren’t to hold big old sheets of plastic cladding on, just hilariously big door guards. Really the base models were a fairly clean design, you just see so few truly optionless models from those years.
My Dad had a buddy with an 1996 SLE, emerald green with a tan cloth interior, really sharp, but the first car he had ever owned with a shift interlock! When he got in the car for a test drive at the dealer he couldn’t figure out how to get it out of PARK!