Simply resplendent in its Seasonal Affective Disorder camouflage paint
The new-for-2018 Camry is the sales leader in a quickly declining segment that once was a massive presence in the American automotive market. If the midsize sedan does implode, the Camry may well be the last holdout. Between this model with its lunatic origami exterior and the hunchbacked Accord with Frida Kahlo’s unibrow, desperate attempts are being made for attention by formerly unassailable brands. Perhaps one day this Camry will be featured on Curbside, contorted plastic mask faded and misaligned from too many curb hits, remembered as the final stand of a segment murdered by crossovers. I recently rented one, and as the largely satisfied owner of a 2016 a review seemed natural.
The profile is much better. Image credit: Car and Driver
Note: Road grime and limited time killed my photography, you get my rhyme? But Car and Driver reviewed a clone of my rental, down to the color in and out, so some of the photos are theirs and are noted.
First, to understand the dire situation the midsize sedan is currently in, realize that my local Toyota dealership will rent you this roomy and powerful car for 20% less than the disgusting little fecal lump known as the C-HR. That toad-eyed ode to feckless, fickle consumer tastes is cramped, slow, and impossible to see out of, but it’s a “crossover” so cha-ching! No wonder Accord sales are in the toilet and the Camry is losing ground despite bolstering numbers with fleet sales. You can’t sell good products to clueless people.
C’est la vie. This mid-level 4-cylinder SE lists for about $27K just as our 2016 did for its first owner. That’s less than a comparable RAV4 and not much more than a well-equipped C-HR. They are also advertised with $3K in discounts before you even start hemming and hawing and frowning at the salesman, mumbling that you might go test drive the Accord as well. You could probably get down to the low-20s if you took your time, and that would be a lot of very good car for the money.
Get the LE/XLE, and in a dark color
I’m not going to beat a dead styling horse as I’m sure will be done in the comments, but I find this one ugly from any angle except dead-even profile. White is a hard color to pull off because there is no way to hide awkward design language, so every bit of styling excess is laid bare on this Camry. Darker colors look better, as do the non-sport LE/XLE models which keep the attractive basic shape and leave off the clown makeup. The front fascia, though…no matter what you do, you either get Kabuki or baleen whale.
Image credit: Car and Driver
Settling into the interior is a generally positive experience. You sit low in comfortable and highly adjustable front seats, ensconced by a tall center console and uniquely sculpted dashboard made of some very nice materials. Gone is any remaining fuddy-duddiness in the design–if the traditional Camry demographic still buys this car it is due to the longstanding reputation of the nameplate rather than any aesthetic or tactile semblance to domestic comfy cruisers of yore. Put a Mazda or Honda logo on the steering wheel and the car magazine commenters would be swooning.
I particularly like the metallic trim strip in front of the passenger; it has texture, contours, and doesn’t look like plastic. The dash pad is a single piece and thickly padded. Nearly everything above the equator is far nicer than my 2016. The steering wheel and shift lever feel expensive. The analog gauges are clear and the muted white and ice blue control lighting at night is slick and unintrusive. The big storage bin forward of the shifter is covered with a spring-loaded tray that fits a large phone and glides smoothly out of the way. Nicely done.
The attention to detail on the dashboard should have been continued onto the front doors
Yet, they cheaped out on the front doors. They don’t close with a nice sound and the soft dashboard material that you will never actually contact should have been used here. The window sill is a perfectly good material. The armrest, though, is stiff and rubberized and the panel above it is hard plastic. I don’t get it. They knock it out of the park with the dashboard and then flub the doors that you will contact every time you drive.
Yes, the rear doors are entirely hard plastic except for the armrest, just like the Accord. But who cares? My kids back there don’t and yours probably won’t either. Their interaction with those panels will be to scuff it, scratch it, and make concerted efforts to embed crayon wax so deep into the graining that you’ll give up efforts to remove it and just be happy you bought a cheap car. Since we all insist on expensive touchscreens and tech glitz as standard equipment, this is a sensible place to recover some costs in a vehicle destined for family and commuter use. Go for an XLE if you’re a real estate agent, it buys your clients nicer door panels. Cost-cutting that does bother me are the fixed headrests that make high-back booster and convertible car seats more difficult to install tightly despite the excellent LATCH anchor access.
Image credit: Car and Driver
The 2018 Camry was built upon their new midsize modular TNGA platform after 16 years on the K platform. New rear suspension as well. It immediately shows, the car feels quite different from our 2016. The ride/handling balance is difficult to fault, and it feels thoroughly developed and expensive. There is good body control and similar roll stiffness to our 2016 but with far less of the impact harshness–and this car has the same 45-series tire, overfilled to 37 psi cold. Rough pavement is smoothed out with far more sophistication and less noise, yet it turns in nearly as sharply and has more ultimate lateral grip in instrumented tests. The 2016 is prone to some uncouth sharp rear suspension motions on rougher pavement, particularly when there’s cornering forces, and I felt none of that in the 2018. It’s also very quiet on the freeway. This car goes down the road very well in any condition I encountered. The Fusion was my segment standard for suspension tuning and I think this matches it. The 2018 chassis beats our 2016 hands-down.
No bloody digital speedometer and tach.
So does the steering, which feels more natural at all speeds and far more so around town. I don’t feel like the electric assist is messing around with ratios and resistance in the background. Resistance builds up linearly as the wheel is turned and the natural self-centering action gets stronger with speed. Some road surface texture is transmitted. Brake pedal feel is also more linear and natural. Overall, this Camry feels more cohesive, fluid, and expensive than before, and more than I’d personally expect for the price considering what was on offer in this segment several years ago.
The powertrain is where things begin to get murky. It is a new 2.5L four cylinder engine, naturally aspirated and with dual port and direct injection, paired to a new 8 speed automatic transmission. The engine is great. The transmission (or its programming) is not. The engine now provides 203 horsepower (25 additional over our 2016). Fuel economy is now rated at 28/39 mpg and even Car and Driver managed 32 combined and 45 mpg at a 75 mph cruise. That’s seriously impressive. The additional power isn’t apparent in some instrumented tests, but this engine is strong in the real world. I’m well calibrated to our current car and this one pulls harder all throughout the rev range, and acceleration within gear raised my eyebrows a bit.
Rework the low-speed response of the transmission and this would be a fantastic base powertrain
However, they’ve programmed in some dead throttle response and leisurely kick-down action. In many situations the calibration is fine. Cruising at speed and want another 5-10 mph? Roll into the gas and it will quickly give you a few hundred additional rpm and some refined acceleration. Same with maintaining pace on a grade. But there are instances in both assertive and leisurely driving where the powertrain calibration is off.
Some days I feel this way too.
Let’s say you drive this thing like an angry monkey. Your kids fought all morning and the dog peed on the rug so you’re late for work and now this car and everyone on the road is going to pay. You’ll notice the odd powertrain behavior in a couple of ways. When you pull out of the driveway and floor it, the fuel-saving throttle calibration gives you less power than you’re expecting until about 5-10 mph when it finally decides you mean business and then it pulls strongly to 6500 rpm. The engine note will suit your mood. This initial delay probably costs a few tenths in the instrumented 0-60 runs. As you repeatedly stomp the gas while weaving left and right through traffic, you may notice that the downshift initiation is quick, but the shift itself takes longer than expected to complete so you’re gonna want to give your tantrums a half-second lead here. The long rev hang as you transition from floored throttle to panic braking may also annoy you, because if you apply more gas during this moment, you may catch the transmission off guard as it is working its way back up the ratios. On the upside, this car will fly pretty well when the engine is kept on boil, and as you run every left turn light on red while flipping off anyone who honks in protest you’ll also notice some unexpected cornering composure.
Lots of glass space. When driving angry, the low beltline is helpful.
The dead throttle response also can be an issue when your cortisol levels aren’t spiked through the roof. When taking off normally from a light, response is soft and the transmission tries to upshift rapidly. You must learn to continue rolling into the gas after first gear to counter this, which is also the case with the old 2.5 & 6 speed. Gone are the days of the old 4 speeds in which you could more naturally and smoothly allow the revolutions to build at fixed throttle. It’s not bad and it didn’t take long to get used to it.
Rear visibility, however, has declined. Cut people off with due caution. Safety first!
However, this part is bad: picking up speed from a rolling 5-15 mph. You will encounter this with every turn into a parking lot, every right turn on a green. You complete the turn, gently apply the throttle to speed up, and you get nothing from the engine room. Nothing! No one’s home! The engine remains at 1200 rpm. Push harder and it might get it right or it might suddenly give you too much. No matter which way it goes there will always be that initial second of nothing, and after nearly 200 miles I wasn’t able to learn my way out of that one.
It’s roomy back there but the fixed headrests are a mistake.
We shouldn’t be surprised. For some reason, Toyota refuses to deliver a home run with any vehicle. They always leave something inexplicable on the table. They nailed the hard stuff but left the throttle/transmission calibration unfinished and refused to spend another 50 bucks on the door panels. That is all it would have taken to make this rental car a formidable emissary for Toyota, but they held back. Reviewers don’t like the infotainment software and lack of Apple Carplay either, and that is going to be a big problem for some people. My multiple shorter trips around town with NPR on the radio didn’t necessitate pairing my phone for music, apps, or calls so I cannot offer any feedback there.
Would I buy one? Sure, if our car was needing a direct replacement. I think this is a clear step up from the prior generation of midsizer from any automaker. You should give the new Mazda6 and Accord a thorough look as well, but I don’t see how you could go truly wrong or miss out on much with this car. It does nearly everything well…except Brougham; it doesn’t do that. Which is OK by me, I’ve driven every generation of Camry since 1984 and never actually enjoyed the experience until they became serious about removing the float in the 2012 & later SE models. This Camry preserves those advances while addressing the deficiencies in ride refinement and tire noise. I’ve liked Volkswagen’s take on the mainstream family car because they’ve tended to blend some of Honda’s driving character with Toyota’s refinement and noise control. The current Fusion is excellent at this balance as well. This Camry finally negates the case for a Passat, Jetta, and Fusion in this market.
Perhaps the biggest drawback to buying one is fielding the inevitable criticism from several unfortunate strains of internet dweller, but if you are an adult with actual purpose in life, this is not going to be an issue.
Between the 4-cylinder, hybrid, and V6 engines spread across several suspension tunes, multiple trim levels, and two insane front grills, you have a lot of choice before you even consider the various permutations of Accord and Mazda6. If the Camry isn’t quite the best in class, it fully demonstrates that it is a good time to be a midsize sedan buyer even if it’s a terrible time to be the midsize sedan segment.
Yes, that nose/beak/fish mouth grille is atrocious. As is the Camry’s competition. The rear and side views of this newest Camry are quite acceptable, IMO.
Agree that white is a terrible color on this body! Red, black, darker blue/green is much more attractive. I find the rear 3/4 view most handsome.
I still have not driven a 2019 Camry; so cannot comment on it’s driving dynamics. I have been told that this newest car is much less a “Dull Driver” than my 2011 Camry LE was. I found my 2011 Camry quite competent for my driving need; if sometimes a bit on the flaccid side. From what I have read (in this article and other car magazine road tests) the “dullness” is about gone?
Also pleased to see that there is still an alternative to the usual dark gray/black interior that SO many cars seem to have today.
It’s not that they’re not offered. It’s that people don’t buy them
I have driven the 2019 Camry’s competitor, the Honda Accord.
I found the base Accord’s interior quality of materials kinda-sorta thin and cheap…esp for that kind of money.
Once the turbocharger spooled up, the Accord engine developed plenty of power. Not so much for shooting across 4 lanes of traffic and turning left and merging, though.
I am still not a fan of Continuously Variable Transmissions; like to hear and feel gears changing.
Rented a 2018 and 2017 Camry almost back-to-back. The 2018 was much, much more comfortable and better to drive in every way.
An excellent review, along with your previous ones.
Toyota’s ability to wring out more power and efficiency in the new four cylinder engine is impressive. I read that it can operate with up to 42% efficiency. That’s diesel territory. And another way that Toyota manages to keep ahead of the competition, and without resorting to turbocharging.
I wonder if the issues you pointed out about the transmission really are a lack of further effort or the intrinsic limitations of meeting the goal of maximum efficiency and a high EPA number. Are there 8 speed transmissions that have these issues nailed down?
The dynamic improvements of Toyota’s new platform kit that underpins many of its new cars including the Corolla, Prius, Camry RAV4 and others has given all of them a significantly improved ride and handling and a competitive edge. Apparently reducing friction in the suspension was a key factor, among others. Toyota’s steady incremental improvements and their scale that makes it possible is impressive.
I think that this is a rather well designed sedan, although the reaction to its front end, especially certain versions and in some color combos is understandable. But the Camry clearly is not the rather dull appliance it started out to be when the previous K platform first came along.
Thanks Paul.
I’m not an engineer, but the new engine does have some impressive on-paper specs to trot out it does seem to back that up with performance in the real world. If the new engine and transmission prove durable, I’d consider it a big advancement in base powertrains despite the sometimes wonky throttle/transmission response.
Consumer Reports achieved 49 mpg in their highway test and it was significantly quicker than the Mazda6 2.5 in their 0-60 test.
Regarding the transmission behavior, I do wonder if it is to meet EPA ratings, particularly in the city. The only behavior that really did bug me was that response at 5-15mph and perhaps that gives an edge in the EPA city loop.
I take it the Toyota you drove didn’t have a sport mode you could have engaged that may have changed the transmission tuning?
That’s a good question, Ed. It does have a “sport” mode, engaged by moving the shifter left from D. If I had the car longer I would have tried it out more thoroughly. I’ve found before that sport modes can introduce a different problem entirely–improving downshift response but then hanging onto gears too aggressively. The VW GTI DSG and Honda Accord V6 6-speed auto were this way.
I really like the dash design on these, they’re a neat looking shape but still functional. Only part I’m wary about is the glossy panel surrounding the touchscreen and buttons. Yeah it looks nicer than a plasticy matte finish but it unless the driver and passenger wear surgical gloves to operate it it gets riddled with fingerprints, wiped clean with the wrong towel, and now embedded with streaks and crazing. To play devils advocate, the nice part of the door panel is the only part I care about being nice. Most other cars are the direct inverse I’ve found, with a nice stitched armrest and some fancy insert, but everything around it hard plastic right to the sill. Stop discouraging me to put my elbow out the window, automaker’s!
You may appreciate the low window sill for all your elbow hanging needs, although since it was winter I didn’t actually try it myself and the low seating position may still make this a bit hard.
When compared to many/most garish, “in your face”, Pacman/video game inspired dashboards of 2019; I find the Camry’s IP a new standard of restrained good taste and decorum.
When ever I look at the profile of a mid-size I have this fantasy to imagine it as a wagon or at least a hatch.
The current Accord really should have been a liftback, ditto the Civic “sedan” with its super short trunklid and sloping rear roofline. It already looks like one, just give us the utility!
Amen. Ditto the current Fusion. At a glance, the Fusion sedan’s rear looks the same as a Mondeo hatchback.
At least Buick finally switched the Regal to the hatchback body.
I’m sure this generation is exceptional in its class just like pretty much all of the previous generations, but that nose though…UGGGHHHH!!!! It’s like Toyota tried to mask the blandness with a “look at me” nose job. Nice try Toyota.
Someone I know who is notoriously hard on vehicles and prides himself on trashing/destroying any rental he gets, rented a Camry SE. He threw everything he had at it. Nuetral drops, constant hard acceleration, and putting the car into park while driving 45 mph kind of thing. He said he got the insurance, so he will drive how he wants. He previously immobilized A Chevy Malibu (caught fire somehow) then a Hyundai Sonata ( I guess some people get off on destroying things?), all within 2 weeks. The Camry amazingly was sewing machine smooth when returned and still drove normal . Toyota may have cheaped out on some of the materials to keep the cost of the car down, but mechanically this is hands down one of the most solid vehicles on the road today. I think the best combination is a midrange model. The XLE really starts to cross into Avalon, Lexus, and Acura TLX territory.
Geez. Your acquaintance found himself a curious hobby. Perhaps he could convince automakers to give him a career in high-stress durability testing, but he really shouldn’t be rewarded for his behavior.
The XLE is indeed very nice. They address any interior material quality complaints I had and further up the ante in areas that already are nice in this SE.
I saw many things in 7.5 years in rental cars, and it always did and still does gall me that people do this. And then they brag. And then they post on YouTube. That is not their property, and should not be treated poorly simply because it isn’t. I saw someone throw a Hertz Camry LE into park at 35 once, in the Hertz lot, as a worthless protest over having been made to wait 10 minutes for a car to be brought to him from half a state away and then prepped for him. The sound the transmission made sickens me to this day. And it was my job for those years to clean up the messes made by such careless people.
That being said, in defense of the hard plastic doors, they tend to hold up well over time. Compare a “tactilely pleasing” 2000 Passat interior with a “cheap, hard” 2000 Camry interior today.
There’s a reason rental companies buy cars like this. The durability of the whole package after 40k rental miles and/or 10-15 years of regular ownership has directly been tied to the strong resale values, making them good short term rental buys for companies and good long term buys for consumers.
Many great, new interior epochs from other manufacturers have come and gone, and many have been very nice when new. But how do they hold up? The last W-Body Impala/Limited was lambasted for its interior quality when new. And yet, they hold up better than any GM interior made since the early ’60s migration away from metal.
This is why I don’t buy rental cars. I tried it once and had bad experiences, and it was a car recommended by CR.
Interesting point on Toyota always just missing a home run; I think of the new Corolla hatchback with its’ raves from the press but interior-space-challenged layout on a wheelbase inexplicably shorter than the sedan and with Toyota’s continued insistence on a flat load floor with seats down leading to a high load floor and zero well space with the back seat in use. (The obvious solution, a piece that would double as a cargo cover with the rear seat in use and a false floor with it down, continues to elude them).
And is the C-HR selling well anywhere? In my area the lack of an AWD option in combination with that challenging styling and the utility compromises it forces killed it stone dead.
A really good and enlightening review. My stepmom has owned a series of Camrys going back several years, and got a 2018 last summer which I have not yet had the chance to drive. Every one of her previous ones hit me the same way her 74 Cutlass Supreme did around 1976 or so – this is “normal”. This is what people drive who are not all goofy about their cars. There was nothing really wrong with any of them, it is just that none was very fulfilling either. At least not to me.
Effing CAFE. These 8+ speed transmissions are there for one reason only – high EPA test numbers. Minimum RPMs seem to be the holy grail for top scores and here we are, autoboxes that jam you into higher gears than you want sooner than you want them. This has been the most irritating feature of every (and I mean EVERY) recent car I have driven. Is it possible that Toyota provides some kind of sport mode that would play with the shift points a bit (as was the case with the Sedona I drove last summer)? Perhaps you only get that in a higher trim level (if at all).
But Dayum, that engine’s output sounds impressive for its size. It sounds like Toyota got a whole lot right on this car (if you can stand driving the modern visual equiv of a 59 Dodge).
I’ve had a few ’18 rentals, I thought the DI clatter and busy 8spd took away a noticeable amount of refinement from the car, also headroom has been reduced, I like the higher seating position of the ’12-’16 cars. The 2018 has a lower roof line, and lowered the seats to compensate (but not entirely).
The engine’s power and economy are indeed impressive, on ramp acceleration with the new 8 spd is very satisfying, it snaps off very quick and direct shifts, motor is noticeably stronger than before. But around town I found the 8 spd frustrating in fairly benign situations.
I’ve test driven a few Siennas with the 8spd and found them to be a mixed bag: first gear feels weird and super short, but for the most part unobtrusive. Does anyone know if it is a true “regular” automatic or some kind of dual clutch type thing?
I wonder if it is still possible to “hand shift” automatics to get your own gear shifts when putt-putting around town?
I’ve never found that intuitive or satisfying and this Camry will upshift without your permission unless you put the lever in “Sport” mode.
I’ll use the manual control for engine braking on hills or to keep the transmission from lugging at low speed cruising.
Agree, Petrichor!
I tried “hand shifting” my 2011 Camry’s automatic tranny; discovered that leaving it in Drive and letting it do it’s own thing was just as satisfying.
And this coming from a life long 3/4/5 speed manual transmission driver (until 5 left knee operations)!
I’m pretty sure it is a torque-converter automatic.
I agree, engine refinement is down from the prior 2.5/6spd. Having owned a Nissan 2.5 and my own 4Runner, though, I didn’t find it objectionable. It’s quiet enough around town and when it is revving it is louder than before but it doesn’t sound *bad* the way the Nissan’s and a lot of econo-car 4-cylinders do. I prefer the refinement and response of the old powertrain more, but the additional power and fuel economy of the new one seem worth it to me.
I don’t suppose “cep” are the initials of a certain TTAC commenter with the last name of an Arizona city who was banned for the constant “Honduh” and “Toyoduh” trolling? Use it again and I’ll remove your comments from the thread. I’m leaving the current one in place because it says more about you than about the people you are insulting.
Well Written, Petrichor.
This will be the last time he does that here.
Carroll, someday I would like to visit your world – the place where Hondas and Toyotas are the cheap crap used cars that are only bought by people with no credit and no options while the wealthy and discerning have paid premiums for decades to get great cars like the Dodge Avenger and the Ford Windstar. And where GM, Ford and Chrysler dealers will stand behind their products with extended warranties and customer accommodations instead of telling their customers to go to hell because the warranty has run out.
But instead I have to live in my world which is pretty much the opposite. Except for the fact that I see no need to insult everyone who buys an American car with poor reliability ratings by calling the companies by names that have become tiring to everyone here by now.
So it is the TTAC commenter. Is he trolling other sites as well?
Stuff like this is why I no longer frequent TTAC – the last thing I remember reading there was Merilee (sp?) and his Hell Impala. Thank goodness the moderators are vigilant here!
I agree. That site has a tiresome amount of brand-fetishists and political firebrands that cannot let stuff go. Nothing constructive to say, just snipe, snipe, snipe.
Murilee Martin. His posts are awesome.
Shopped one of these but went for the Accord Touring instead. Problem was at 6’5″ the thing is just too small for me to fit. To get seats that lowered enough for me to sit in the car required optioned including a sunroof which took away headroom. Ended up having to tilt head about 45 degrees to right to clear the sunroof lip. Salestwit suggested leaning the seat back… not an option as the seat rake required was just to extreme. Accord didn’t have these problems so I bought it instead. Nice car for my use case.
Hated the Camry nose. I liked the rest of the car with the above exceptions. Chassis dynamics good, engine nice, goofy trans programming as noted is annoying.
Honda has the 1.5 cvt which is just fine for my 90% highway commute. Honda is a fine, but there are cheap bits on it. The overarching nanny mode ‘safety’ systems don’t work well in parking garages, rain or snow. If this is an example of autonomous vehicular tech, god save us all…. it is the coming of the T-1000!
Good perspective from someone 5 inches taller than me. That Accord is very roomy.
Regarding nanny systems, I turned the lane departure warning off immediately, it was very sensitive and I promise I wasn’t texting while driving. Also, the warning chime for freezing road conditions was startlingly loud and it does it at every start up. I didn’t have time to paw through the menus for a way to turn that down, but in my departed VW it was such a perfectly calibrated polite noise that got your attention without being obnoxious.
In this size category, a sunroof does indeed rob some much needed headroom.
Not an issue in a tall, tippy SUV interiors; but more important in smaller cars.
If I read the specs correctly, the Camry LE does not come with a standard sunroof. Perhaps 2 more inches of headroom in this model?
This SE didn’t have a sunroof either. Plenty of headroom for me, something like 4 solid inches and I didn’t have the seat all the way down.
Here in 94% of the time hot and humid New Orleans, I find a sunroof a seldom used item. C-C-Cold and efficient air conditioning is more of value to me.
When the nanny starts shouting at me, I turn off the systems. The nanny is really annoying with red flashing lights and loud alarms. Thankfully the cruise can be set manually once one consults the required documents downloaded from the internet (owners manual is missing quite a lot of information). The weirdest bit is the thing gets confused and goes bonkers in parking garages with high curbs.
We’ve had some serious snow here the last few days and the backup alarm goes off when the sensors get dirty. You’d think they’d have that figured out by now. The touch screen menus rival those of poorly designed phone systems. I am slowly learning the voice commands, but really!!!!
I had a Cruze before the Honda and it was just fine. Shopped the Malibu and Impala at local Chev shop, but the salesunit wanted to play hold the customer hostage and negotiate him up. Told him once, that I’d pay x and if he didn’t like it I was off to the competition. Soo an easy sale lost to him. Honda dealer has been great so far.
The 1.5 CVT is plenty peppy for me. I engage sport mode and it is surprising how quick this large car can be. Its no Hemi, but I don’t need one. I image the bigger 2.0 would be fun, but I don’t need the extra power.
Great review, thanks for sharing. No car is perfect but I sure appreciate Toyota’s approach to modern efficiency standards. My personal car is a 2018 Toyota Highlander and my employer issued ride is a 2018 Ford Escape AWD with the 1.5 Ecoboost. In anything other than stop and go driving the Highlander gets about the same mileage despite being substantially larger, more powerful, and refined.. The Escape is not a bad vehicle, particularly at real world transaction prices, but that power train is comedic in its suckiness. Go 2.0 for sure . . .
After 9000 miles I’m used to the 8 speed transmission in the Highlander. Like just about everything these days it is programmed to save fuel, which it does with a real world 10% improvement over the prior power train in the Highlander. I initially found it too quick to downshift actually but have come to learn it will do exactly what you want it to do via throttle inputs. The slightest additional pressure after a shift will delay the next upshift if desired. Hold the throttle dead still and downshifts are minimized. A quick small blip will get you one gear down. Bigger blips get more gears down. The Highlander and Sienna have had one major software update since the new power trains debuted with MY 2017 vehicles. So the initial teething troubles have been addressed with these.
Hopefully I’ll get one of these as a rental one day to try the new platform out.
Regarding the Escape 1.5, you may like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKl50VsR6sk
I agree that some time is needed to learn how the transmission responds. I think we come to expect every vehicle to do exactly what we want without considering that some learning curve might be required. To me, it comes down to whether that learning curve is excessively shallow or not.
I like his reviews, he’s not wrong about the Escape. With the 1.5 Ecoboost and added weight of the AWD system it’s Malaise era like – a lot of noise is being made and gas being guzzled but the forward progress is sedate. Modern vehicles usually have enough power to not have to work particularly hard to keep up with stop and go traffic and merge onto the highway. This vehicle requires 3K to 4K RPM just to get down the block to the next stoplight with everyone else except those stuck behind you getting there earlier. The only other vehicle I’ve driven in years that had to work this hard to loaf around at normal speeds is a rental Hyundai Tucson AWD with the 2.slow engine – and that was in flat metro Detroit!
We’ve really become spoiled by the power of most cars these days that I would fuss about this particular vehicle – in historical terms it’s not that slow. I’ve owned and driven much slower vehicles from the 70s and 80s. The 74 Peugeot 504 diesel I owned was glacial but that makes one a better driver I think.
I just rented one of these a couple of weeks ago, same color combination even. And it did have Apple CarPlay, which meant I didn’t have to futz with Toyota’s infotainment.
The best part of this car from an aesthetic standpoint is the relatively large green house. I liked how they sloped the window sill line down from the base of the windshield…ala 1977 GM b-bodies.
Hopefully this design will lead the way away from the gun slit, gangster like profiles we have been subjected to for a decade or so.
I really liked the forward-180 degree visibility from this car. The beltline really is much lower than almost any new car or CUV. The dashboard is a bit taller than I prefer, but not bad.
I was likewise impressed and a huge fan of the view from the driver’s seat in the forward 180 degree direction. Right out of the 90s!
And it seems so silly perhaps but I can’t not mention just how offensively cheap the door cards feel: ruins the feel of the whole interior for me to be honest. Not crazy about any of the seat fabrics either, although they’re no worse than the junk in my wife’s 2012 SE with its mixed vinyl+scratchy plasticky “cloth.” In that regard I actually prefer the prior ’07-’11 Camries. They have cheap dashes, but nice fuzzy velour. Combined with the marshmallow styling and marshmallow ride of an LE, AND the availability of Toyota’s rich shade of forest green, and that’s one of my favorite flavors of K platform Camry.
Within the current used+new Toyota sedan space though, the smart money (IMO) is in a lightly used K-platform Avalon, either lusty V6 or frugal but smooth Hybrid guise.
Yes, the door cards bring the interior down. I’m not fond of the fabrics, either, but nice fabric seems to be largely extinct from the industry now. The same type of nasty slick plastic fiber is used in the Accord as well despite the rest of the interior being quite nice.
I don’t know what’s in the Mazda6 now, but 2016 and 2017 models had a much richer feeling fabric.
Subaru has very plush feeling velour in the Outback. And yeah, the slick feeling cloth is awful, my friend has it in his 2016 Civic, between the texture and awful seams, it reminds me of a $40 set of neoprene seat covers I bought on Amazon for my 2012 Civic when I dabbled in Lyft driving for a bit (purely for fun).
I couldn’t agree more. A redesign that actually makes the windows bigger is such a welcome change these days. Let’s hope it’s a market-wide trend.
Petrichor: I found your short term road test to be quite “fair and balanced” (unlike the entertainment channel I lifted this quote from!).
I suppose, given enough time, one could get used to the transmission’s shifting and learn how to minimize the wonkiness?
Hey man, I report, you decide!
I got used to the powertrain behavior by Day 2, both as Angry Monkey and Zen Master. It’s just that very low-speed behavior that I couldn’t figure out.
Nice review
The last rental Toyota I had was a 2016 Corolla that was painted white and had a black interior except for the seats that were chocolate brown.
I do think the demise of the sedan is a bit over exaggerated. Those same “pundits” that are predicting the death of the sedan were also predicting the death of the small/midsize pickup about 10 years ago. They all were saying “why would anybody want a small/midsize pickup when you can get a large one for not much more?” Well they were wrong. A lot of folks did/do want a small pickup. Toyota offers one, GM offers 2, Ford just came out with its 2019 Ranger, Honda offers a Ridgeline (I consider that pickup truck enough) I am pretty sure FCA will offer one soon (the decline in sales of the 3rd Gen Dakota was a sales failure not due to the decline in popularity of smaller trucks but because the 3rd gen Dakota was ugly and cheply made(unlike the popular 2nd gen) )
Ford still can’t sell enough Rangers to keep an assembly line busy. Once the pipeline is filled for the tiny residual demand for a smaller Ford truck, the Bronco will be the main show.
FCA is capacity limited for Jeeps. Anything smaller than a Ram 1500 will be a Cherokee or Wrangler type product, not a Dakota replacement.
Interesting you talk about throttle response on this 2018 Camry. In winter of 2003 I was on the market for a new car, I tasted drive a VW Passat with 1.8 turbo, it had the same feeling. A bit annoying when you stop to turn,then ready to go, press the gas pedal and no action. Rather than that Passat was superior than Camry, Accord and Altima. I ended up to get a 2003 Accord with v6. Coincident later I read on Road and Track, it pointed out this problem, saying it might related to emissions.
I still do sometimes miss the immediate, forceful and explosive throttle responses of cars from the 1970’s and 1980’s.
When you “dipped down” for a part throttle/foot to the floor downshift, something happened immediately!
I rented one of these in Chicago last week that only had 500 miles on the odometer and found it to be rather impressive, especially when considering that one could get a base model for around $21-22k. The engine was the best feature, providing smooth acceleration and able to keep up with heavy traffic, while using regular gas. I also immediately noticed and disliked the hard plastic door inserts, so would recommend forking over for an XLE to get the upholstered version. It rode and handled very well, even on winter-pocked Chicago streets, and comes close to, but does not surpass my Fusion or a Passat in terms of agility and well-damped ride. I had three passengers with me, all big men, and nobody complained about lack of room. In all, a civilized conveyance, and if more people would take a test drive rather than head straight for a CUV, the American sedan marke might not be in such dire decline.
Rent the Camry
Buy the Accord.
Thornmark, is that you?
Because if it isn’t, you’ve got a twin brother on another website.
With Honda’s fuel contamination issues in the 1.5T cars and a CVT, sign me up for Camry long term ownership.
Anyone else get a Starwars Stormtrooper vibe from the first picture?
And I agree re the looks of the C-HR. Truly vile.
Very impressive review, it could benefit a lot of car shoppers to read this before they buy a CUV. Since you apparently do not own a CUV, I would certainly like to hear your reasons for not owning one. According to some people, a CUV’s fuel mileage is only slightly lower than the corresponding car, is that your experience?
Thanks Zipster. I don’t own a CUV because for my uses, they represent a compromised middle ground between cars and genuine SUVs. I prefer the way sedans (particularly well sorted ones like this) drive compared to the equivalent crossover. The price premium over an equivalent sedan is the second big issue, and I feel that’s mainly because they are trendy. The fuel economy gap is third, but as you’ve noted that gap is narrowing.
We have a sedan and a 4Runner. That gives us an efficient, comfortable commuter and long distance cruiser and a capable camping rig. If I couldn’t use the 4R off pavement as I do, then honestly we’d probably have a CR-V/RAV4/CX5 type crossover instead; the wagon form is handy and my wife likes them. Actually, we’d probably have a Golf Sportwagen.
Why is it that GM and Toyota posts tend to be the most divisive and have the most responses?
My guess is because Toyota is now what GM used to be. My 82 year old father is debating buying a new car. He’s always been a GM guy since he started buying cars in the late 50s. Between the bailout, their “thanks for the money chumps” with middle finger extended actions, and what he saw at the dealer when he went looking at a replacement for his Chevy Equinox, he’s done with them. Apparently the new Equinox he looked at was assembled in Mexico and had little US content. . . . People like him have kept them in business for decades. He won’t buy anything foreign branded or assembled out of the country, Canada excepted. I told him to go look at the Ford Escape I bitched about above but to either get the cheap one or the nice one to avoid the 1.5 Ecoboost.
Why will he accept a Canadian-built car but reject a Mexican-built one?
Because of his ignorant worldview. He better hope reincarnation isn’t real beacause Karma is going to be a bitch if it is. . .
I didn’t want to assume, but sounds like it’s as I guessed: Canada’s fine with him because white people; Mexico’s not because brown people. I declare, MonkeyOS 1.0.1b3 will be the death of us all.
Because they tend to challenge people’s mindsets.
I live in an area where GM can do no wrong and where the Toyota dealer is an afterthought to the Chevrolet/Buick/Cadillac dealer. Any comment about any shortcoming in any GM vehicle is met with profound scoffing as it challenges their opinions. It’s entertaining to see.
I really enjoyed the entertaining writing style in this. Nicely done!
WHY did Toyota give the inofensive Camry such an ugly front clip?
‘Kabuki Mask’ pretty much sums it up. Possibly the ugliest font end style since the `61 Rambler Ambassador, if that is at all possible.
Well, apparently we here in the EU will be able to sample the Camry soon but only as hybrid, so I may be looking at it in two years time when I decide to get short of my Mazda 3, if only to see what the fuss (in the US) is all about…
German magazine Auto Bild tested a prototype and the view was generally positive, although the bottom line was that it makes more sense if you do lots of city miles. See below (in German):
https://www.autobild.de/artikel/toyota-camry-hybrid-2019-test-preis-verkauf-in-europa-13812321.html
I look forward to Petrichor’s postings here almost as much as I enjoy reading Paul’s thoughtful and well researched postings.
Would I be remiss in deciding to take that car to a paint shop and telling them to paint all that hideous black plastic on the front, rear and side the same color as the rest of the car?
This upset you so much that you came back 24 hours later? Are you OK? I’m sorry I didn’t properly tiptoe around your deep emotional connection with a 4-cylinder midsize sedan, but there’s not much I can do to help you there.
However, I don’t understand your rebuttal. Both Camry and Accord are down by similar percentages YTD despite the Camry selling significantly to fleet? That’s essentially what I wrote. What more do you want?
At least you actually read the first paragraph of my review. I’m not sure you read all the way through, though, or you may have seen this line:
“Perhaps the biggest drawback to buying one is fielding the inevitable criticism from several unfortunate strains of internet dweller, but if you are an adult with actual purpose in life, this is not going to be an issue.”
Or perhaps you did and interpreted it as the Bat-Signal.
Great review and analysis! The comment section was really cooking as well.
I had one of these on rental from enterprise last month in Atlanta. Total turd. Wouldn’t start had to be towed. Never had that problem with my ’14 or ’17 Impalas. Or any of the other 8 Chevys I’ve owned. Nothing dumb, creepy or thoughtless about brand loyalty, imo
“Nothing dumb, creepy or thoughtless about brand loyalty, imo”
Highly debatable. If said brand loyalty is leading you to bounce from anecdote to anecdote instead of thinking levelly about something, I wouldn’t consider that very bright. Statistics were developed for a reason.
Many Toyota brand loyalists will say the same about the Chevys they encountered.
I do agree that there’s nothing creepy about brand loyalty, but blind faith in the brand you’re loyal to is indeed thoughtless. It’s possible to favor a brand and still be an educated and realistic buyer.