(first posted 7/3/2011) Those of us who have owned several cars very seldom get to re-connect with an old one. Sure, we may see them around for awhile after we sell them, but then they inevitably vanish into our memories and photo collections. However, during a recent driving lesson with my youngest teen, I came across this old friend which I sold nearly 6 years ago. I am happy to see that it is still at work.
For most of my life, there has been one constant when it comes to my cars. I stumble across a well-kept, one-owner, low-mile car in the 12-15 year old range. I will then enjoy it for about 4 years and 40 thousand miles, then the process seems to start again. My then-16 to 19 year old car is still clean and well kept and finds another owner, and the automotive circle of life continues.
In the fall of 2001, I was in the 4th year of my 84 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency 2 door. I was not looking for a car, as I had FINALLY gotten the automatic temperature control system working properly for the first time under my ownership, and life was good. Then I noticed that an elderly fellow down the street had an old Cadillac for sale at the end of his driveway. I knew enough about old Cadillacs to know that I did not want one. I guessed it to be an early 80s model. Whether it had a V8-6-4 or that horribly underpowered HT4100, there was just no reason to go there. So, of course, one day I stopped and looked.
I was surprised to find that it was a 1989, that it had the same 5 liter (Oldsmobile 307) engine that I knew so well from my Ninety Eight, and it had only 76000 pampered, garage-kept miles. A really nice car, but I didn’t really need one and it was a little expensive. The gentleman saw me looking and came outside. He was a retired businessman who had become a Lincoln man in the 70s, but his wife still preferred her Cadillacs. This car was the last one she owned before she passed away. He had kept the car for awhile (he had a nearly-new Grand Marquis), but had decided that it was time to sell.
Hmmm. 2 more doors (the Oldsmobile was a pain with 3 kids, even as a second car), a lot fewer miles, leather seats and that shiny Cadillac ornament at the end of the hood. Then the owner told me that he was tired of fooling with it and gave me the price he really wanted to move it down the road. I was hooked and bought me a Cadillac.
I owned this car during the middle of our child-rearing years. In fact, it joined our household on my daughter’s 7th birthday. This was a happy time in our lives, and the Cadillac was usually in the middle of it all. This car made me an instant celebrity among my kids’ friends, who had grown up in a sea of minivans and Suburbans. This was the coolest car at school by far, to hear them tell it. When someone talked about “The Cadillac”, everyone knew that the reference was to our car.
My daughter Maribeth, the 4th grade cheerleader. We are doing driving lessons now.
Football, basketball, cub/boy scouts, brownie/girl scouts, and to school every morning on my way to work, The Cadillac did its thing for us. The Cadillac was often the first choice for any trip that did not involve all 5 of us. For me, I didn’t have to adjust the mirrors and it was our family economy car, since it got about 2 mpg more than the 94 Club Wagon. For my wife (who is not a hot weather girl), the Cadillac had the coldest air conditioning in the history of mankind. In winter, the car had the fastest warming heater we have ever had. All of the kids and I still remember the school morning when we proved to ourselves that the outside temperature indicator would register below zero.
The Cadillac of Snowballs
But all good things must eventually come to an end. In the fall of 2005, I got a call from my mother. For years, I had told her to let me know when she was ready to sell her 93 Crown Victoria. She told me that the time had finally come, forcing the cycle to begin anew. Once again, a newer, lower mileage car plunked itself into my path and I could not turn it down.
Despite the protestations of my oldest son (then 14) that it would be a perfect car for him to learn to drive, I was not going to have a 3rd car sitting around for 2 years waiting for him. The Cadillac went out to the end of the driveway with a for sale sign. We soon found a buyer and after 16 years, the Cadillac had to leave the only street on which it had ever lived to serve a new owner.
I will confess that I do miss those comfy leather seats.
I saw the car several times over the next couple of years. Its new owner or someone in his family worked at a local daycare center. The Cadillac was easy to spot. It was a seldom-seen color combination and had the sticker of a local security company in the lower left of the back window. But one day I noticed that the car was not at the daycare center anymore and that was the last I saw of it. Until last week.
I drove by the current owner’ s house a couple of times. The Cadillac still goes to work every day. There was nobody out when I caught this picture one evening last week, and I was reluctant to knock on the door and intrude on the owner’s evening. But I got a photo from my car at the curb which was enough for me. The car is 22 years old now, and while normal use and the elements conspire to knock it down, it is still in there doing its thing.
In the background is another favorite – the 94 Club Wagon.
So, what do you say to a good old car when you bump into it by chance? I guess there is nothing else to say but that It has been good seeing you again and going over the old times. So long, old friend. Maybe we will see each other again some time.
Most of my previous cars were crap piles that we waved goodbye to as they were towed away. 1968 Galaxie with a bad transmission, 1980 Citation (set of four tires with a bad Citation), 1976 Grand Marquis with god knows what was going on.
The least likely I ever came across was our 1995 Subaru Legacy wagon, which met its demise by putting holes in two of its pistons on an onramp. My dad came across it a few months later in a Safeway parking lot – apparently someone had scooped it up an installed another engine.
I’ve owned a 1967 Dodge Coronet wagon for just around a month and a half – enough people already think its the bees knees that I know I need to hold onto it long enough to take the kidlet to school in it for a few years.
If one goes unto the EPA website and does some research, one may find some surprising thins about mpg and our choices for family cars. Most opt for minivans or SUVs these days but indeed, the mpg ratings are often pretty close to big ol’ 1980’s American iron. It seems all the technology and expense has gone into power not fuel mileage, case in point the GM 6.2 diesel vs more modern diesels in light trucks. When you realize that an all wheel drive Astro/Safari gets 11mpg, you start to wonder, why am I driving this? At least some of us do. In some cases a Caddilac, Crown Vic, or big ol’ truck in my case may actually get better fuel mileage and serve one better.
Hate to see a car like that with the “cancer that never sleeps” – rust.
I have a softspot for all RWD Fleetwoods (don’t talk to me about those bastardized FWD DeVille things…) Too bad the 5.7V8 was so rare in these but then again one of the benefits of a B or D body RWD GM vehicle is the ease of swapping engines in and out of these suckers.
Nice car, nice story.
Love this writeup.
I have often wanted to be able to step through a wormhole or something to see where old cars of mine and others have wound up. I can’t think of any I owned that I saw at all after I traded or sold them, but I occasionally get a quick glimpse of my dad’s old Wrangler with its very distinctive home made 2″ square tube grille guard and roof rack.
As for buying 10+ year old cars to use as a driver, I do the same thing, but always intend to keep them forever until fate interevenes and they get crashed by a drunk or something. The ’95 Camry I had before my present Lincoln had 248k before it was totaled. The Lincoln has 186k, and if I make it to 225k without a transmission rebuild, I’ll be pretty happy with my $1000 car.
I really like these cars and hope to own one someday. They just look like a classic luxury car that makes a modern BMW or Lexus look like a cheap roller skate. That color was called Antelope Firemist and was extra cost. In the recent picture the color looks much darker, and it seems to have a pinstripe that wasn’t in the earlier pictures. It’s bittersweet to see your old car in less nice shape than when you owned it, but it’s still here, and that’s something.
That was a really unusual color that was like a chameleon depending on lighting conditions. On cloudy days it was the color of metallic dirt. On sunny days it was kind of golden, and in the evening it was a beautiful copper. You can see on my next-to-last picture how dark the front of the car is in the shade.
It reminds me of the color of one of my Chryslers, which is called saddle bronze. Sadly, the paint on mine is now so weathered that it’s just “semi-gloss” metallic dirt. I’m thinking of just repainting it red so people will stop saying I have a brown car.
Nice story; and as a father of three, I can relate to it on several levels. I’m sure my kids would have loved riding in a Caddy instead of our former Caravan; which I have run into twice now: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/old-flames-do-you-ever-encounter-your-former-cars/
Thats a nice Caddy made when they had a handle on building real luxury cars not FWD rubbish Who ever has it now seems to be looking after it so you may see it again in a few more years.
I always had a soft spot for those Caddies. They were like a throwback to the early to mid 60s when owning a Cadillac still really meant something.
These “old flame” stories always get me thinking. In 26 years of driving i’ve had 25 different cars and if I could I’d probably buy any of them back if I had the chance. Except for my 80 Grand Prix… That thing just wasn’t good..
Kids in cars are funny some times.my daughter goes to a tiny school and I do transport sometimes for trips, when I had the Peugeot 2.1 diesel they all wanted to ride facing backwards in thr 7 seat part not experience the luxury up front, now apparently my Citroen Xsara is cool yet only my daughter has seen what it can do on twisty roads but she likes it and hopes to drive it one day but thats 6 years away yet but if it keeps doing its trick Ill keep it great handling absolute comfort plenty of creature features and 50mpg is hard to part with or replace
I like how you brought the kids into the picture (no pun intended), because I always get a kick out of watching kids, when first encountering a big old luxurious Grandma-mobile, first make fun of it, but then once they get in and go for a ride, their opinion completely changes!
I teach a teen Sunday School class at my church, and all the kids at first couldn’t figure out why I decided on a Buick LeSabre Limited last month. However, each time one has went for a ride with me, they suddenly “get it”, and can’t wait till we do our annual trip to Detroit in January.
Modern cars are nice, but let’s face it, when it comes to ambiance, grace and style, these old cars have it all over the new ones!!!
Ugh! WHY did you have to say that???
The first car my 7 year old nephew ever got to steer is my Lincoln while sitting on my knee, and he had NO reaction to how different it is from his parents’ RAV4 at all.
I love my nephew, but that boy better show some signs of gearheadism PDQ!
Well, when you are seven, anything with four wheels and a steering wheel will do. Or, in other words, a car is a car is a car….
Don’t worry, as long as you can keep the phone out of his hands, he’ll “get it” one day 🙂
Love old Cadillacs, remind me of my dads DeVilles (75 and 78, but not his FWD 85) when I was a kid. I confess I scour eBay daily, looking for that perfect, cheap, low mile specimen to call my own.
Problem is, all of the HT4100 and Olds 5 liters should be avoided. The 4.1 is a ticking time bomb, and the 5.0 is just too anemic. How to solve this problem, you ask?
Drop a remanufactured 500 in it:
http://Www.cad500parts.com
Since the 472, 500, 425 and 368 were all basically the same engine, and since they all use either the THM 400 (or it’s 4 speed successor), and since theres a buttload of space available in the engine compartment, this swap is a true no-brainer.
Another bonus: the Cadi big block and 400 combo was one of the most overbuilt drivetrains ever made (in fact, the original design was conceived to allow for displacements up to 600 C. I.!) That means it can handle a lot more power than it was blessed with from the factory.
So how about an easy 400, 500, 600+ HP from that setup, in your comfy, luxurious 80’s ride, all for not much coin???
My 77 was the 425 and thm 400. Absolutely agree it was one tough vehicle. Took my wife rear ending an old (and big) Dodge sedan to get the best of it. Engine was probably still running.
I did drive a 1985 4100 Fleetwood Brougham before I picked up my 1990 back in 2007 that had a GM goodwrench replacement motor with all of the updates and the owner told me that it was dead reliable since and he never had a issue with that new motor. I was also shocked how well it moved that 4000 plus barge around considering it’s pathetic power output from the factory of 135 HP and 200 torque. Perhaps the re-man engine made a little more power than the original motor but I swore it felt quicker than my 1990 307 car. The only thing that kept me from purchasing it was a high asking price. I got my 1990 for half the money and better piece of mind from the 307.
In the rear wheel drive Cadillac’s, the 4100 engines got 3.42:1 axle ratios. This will greatly improve the performance. Your axle ratio is probably the 2.93:1 (or worse 2.73:1).
Yup my 1990 had the 2.93 gears out back. One would think that with 55 extra LB. Ft. of torque that performance would be similar or better than the 4100’s. In all honesty though my 1990 wasn’t in perfect tune with the TPS not able to be adjusted correctly so that may have contributed too. I would like to drive a 307 car that was low low mileage and in perfect tune one day to see how it compares because in other applications the swirl port Olds motors always seem to have neck snapping off the line torque.
My father had a few of these. I would visit him every now and then. The Caddies always looked the same, white on white, the interior red or some other color. The only time I really knew he changed Cads was the infamous desiel. What a horror.
Soured him on GM, soured me on desiels.
He went Lincon town cars from that point. Gold on gold. Can only say those were much better cars. (?) He never believed Germans or Japanese made better cars, and in better colors.
Am I the only one who enjoyed the fwd DeVille? I had a ’90 Sedan Deville that was yellow on yellow. Loved it. Bought it from my Uncle, and only had to replace the radiator and that dreaded idle sensor. However, I’m jealous of this older Brougham.
Hello my friends
I am an Iranian.
I have a 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham D. elegans
But it can not catalog
Please send pictures catalog to my email.
zanyar_azadvar@yahoo.com
Nice car. This has to be one of the best years for this ’80 and up body. 307, no door mounted seat belts, rear shoulder belts, some kinks worked out, none of the awful “updated” trim that they would later slather on with a trowel on this car. Really, a perfect family car. Cadillac’s selling theme for the year should have been “Hey! We got this one right – hurry before we mess it up!”
Glad you enjoyed your ownership of it. I didn’t realize that a version of this body that I would actually like was produced for a few years. If I ever see a nice ’89 come my way, I may have to think about it.
I’ve never read this post before, and I’ve guess I never knew you owned an ’89 Brougham before. These cars are truly timeless and what I feel to be the quintessential Cadillac. By the later years most of the bugs had been worked out and most owner stories seem to be positive like yours.
I’ve never seen any of my family’s old cars (that I know of), although I have been tempted several times to pay the 30-something dollars for a carfax subscription to see what’s happened to some of our previous vehicles, as I still have the VIN numbers from many.
I thought Cadillac had replaced those seal-beams with halogens by 1989.
This reminds me of our 1980 Sedan deVille. The irony of luxury family sedans is, by the time you’re old enough to afford a new one (assuming you’re not a prodigy), your kids have grown up & you don’t need the room.
Great story. You seem to have a talent for finding low mileage creampuffs, and keeping them that way until another finds it’s way to you. Since 1990 I have been able to keep track of all my old cars, except one. In order, the ’77 Rabbit went to the wrecking yard towed away by the insurance company of the at fault driver. The 80 Jetta that replaced it was sold to a mechanic at work after I bought my ’86 Jetta. A couple of weeks after he paid it off ( I let him make payments, but kept it parked at work until final payment was made) he totaled it with his pregnant wife aboard. He showed up to work bruised and battered and told me he was hit head on by a drunk out in Lancaster, Ca. They both would be ok and the baby was fine. In 2006 I sold my 70 C10 after 30 years of ownership, in 2004 I bought a new Titan to replace it, and after seeing mushrooms growing behind the seat of the Chevy that was just sitting in the weather I knew it was time for it to go. I told the guy that bought it to call me if he ever wanted to sell it, but 9 years later no call. I never saw it driving around town although it still ran fine when sold. One car that I sold in ’76 was my perfect and newly painted 73 Sport Bug, I saw it until 79 or 80 driving around. It had more dents every time I saw it and looked like it had never been washed.
Neil,
It’s very likely that those sealed-beam headlights are halogen. Even in the 1970s lots of us were replacing our regular sealed-beam bulbs with halogen sealed beams. They made a big difference!
Sorry, I meant composite factory lamps, the kind that cost big $$ when broken, e.g.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:85-92_Cadillac_Brougham.jpg
The caption says 1990, so maybe that was the 1st model yr. for it. Seems pretty late to the party begun by the Conti MkVII. They’re like sunglasses, gotta look cool & European.
My 1990 Cadillac brochure does not say anything about the headlights. My 1994 brochure does say the headlights are halogens. Composite headlamps I am not sure about.
This is such a classic piece. The point about the car being a celebrity among your kids’ friends, who had grown up in a sea of minivans and Suburbans, has stuck with me for years.
Everyone looks so happy, and comfortable! The interior is amazing, front or rear you know exactly the model of car it is. That 3/4 rear shot at the top reminded me that no one did formal roof better than the Brougham, not even the Seville.
I like how you separated your thoughts on the Brougham into two articles. The one called Elder Statesman, another favorite of mine, talked about the history of the model and its numerous product strengths. That let the second article focus on your memories and history with this particular car.
The first made me decide to look for a Brougham instead of a Seville, the second made me start shopping immediately. A one-two punch! Like you I found one from an old guy who had taken great care of it.
My sky-high expectations have been exceeded in every way JPC. Your articles should be required reading for anyone considering one of these cars.
Well, Calibrick, happy to be of service! 🙂 It is funny that someone like me, who was very much NOT a GM kind of guy, would land two of these big GM C body cars in a row. I did come to respect them both quite a bit. I actually liked the way the Olds drove a little better, but the Cadillac was so much better appointed.
The fun postscript is that the eldest son who lobbied so hard for me to keep it eventually bought the 89 Grand Marquis. Had we found a decent Brougham, he might have gone that way instead. His friends still talk about the old Cad.
Oh, and have you ever posted a picture of your Brougham? I would love to see it.
I’ve posted too many but here it goes again, from a recent family trip to the Santa Ynez wine country where we rented a place for the weekend.
The four of us traveled in extreme comfort from LA, about 125 miles south. The last 20 mile stretch is up San Marcos Pass which has a fairly steep incline. Combined mileage for the trip was about 19 which included three days of in town driving.
The ride comfort from the balloon tires, soft springs and BOF construction is insane. We took it out to dinner one night and the car hit this perfect stride. The conversation, which was not about the Cadillac, suddenly stopped. Everyone went silent for a sec and my BIL says “it feels like we’re floating”.
It’s the best road trip car ever. The 307 gives low-end power and refinement like a big block Caddy with the fuel economy of the 4100.
The Chevy engines from the 90s are a bit crude and nearly all of those models came with a raised ride height and heavy duty suspension. That spoils the looks and kills the ride. I also don’t care for the styling changes in 90-92.
I don’t think it’s visible in the pic but mine has a factory rear sway bar. The handling is really impressive, right up there with the fuel economy. It can keep up with anything going down the San Marcos Pass. Brakes are good too.
Beautiful – now I remember! And that butter yellow! I always had mixed feelings about the color on mine. In some light it was a rich looking copper, but in others it was a typical washed out GM early 80s light dirt brown.
The front seat was comfy, but I remember how ridiculously soft and sumptuous the back seat was – it never failed to impress guests. These really were good handlers. My only long-term gripe with the car was the anemic acceleration. I had been spoiled by driving some with the 425 in the late 70s and from the lingering memories of my 63 Fleetwood. But the tradeoff was the quite respectable gas mileage on the highway. I am quite envious of your ability to cruise in one of these with the beautiful scenery of southern Cal.
This is American architecture x 2. It is the perfect setting to showcase the formal design of this car. The stones compliment the car’s color spot on.
I try to remember if I ever rode in a Cadillac……No, I didn’t!!
There was a realtor who chauffeured us in a TC in 1988 when we were house hunting.
SiL had an old CV for a short time.
I had a ride in a Limo, I think it was TC based.
Someone, please, give me a ride in a Cadillac. (And I don’t mean a hearse!)
Calibrick, when I had my ’87, I remember the same thing…we’d been talking and my friend in the passenger seat turned to me out of the blue…”you know, what a ride!!” Made my day. Though I share the complaints about the 307. Lovely cruising on the interstate, but the feeling of luxury vanished instantly on any steep grade. Frankly the HO version could have solved those problems at least somewhat.
In 2014 I tried to relive the experience by purchasing a ’93 Fleetwood Brougham, the whale body with the Chevy L05 350. Aside from the acceleration and improved mileage the car was a letdown in every way, in particular the Malibu grade interior. I recently sold it and don’t miss it at all.
Anyway, no mistaking this for anything but a Cadillac. Truly the last of a breed.
In fact, I just bagged some even bigger game that weirdly reminds me of my old ’87, from the back…
And I thought I was fickle! I usually drive a car until it turns on me and starts costing $$$$$. In the case of the 85 GLC, that took 12 years. The 98 Civic, 15 years. Never saw either of them again.
Sold the 80 LeCar as rust was popping out everywhere at 5 years. Saw it two years later. The bottoms of the rear fenders were gone, and I didn’t know what was holding the front fenders on as they were completely rusted through the length of the top edge and the length of the rear edge by the door.
Saw the 78 POS Zephyr around several times after I dumped it at 2 years. Saw it pull in to the parking lot of the apartment complex where I had just dropped off the g/f, so walked over for a closer look. As the driver got out, I explained my interest, said “I used to own this car”. First words out of his mouth were “have a lot of trouble with it?”. I went through the litany that had it in the shop every month for two years, then said “how about you?” (this is about 4 months after I traded it in) He said he had had the carb rebuilt and the a/c had quit……looking in the reliability statistics in the 1982 Consumer Reports, the automatic tranny in the Zephyr was particularly fragile as well, so owner #3 may have had another present waiting for him.
Reading this post again is bittersweet for me. I sold my 1989 Brougham last week. It was a beautiful car, white with dark blue leather seats, in excellent condition and a conversation starter nearly every place that I drove it. The Cadillac was the first car that I truly loved since the 1977 Oldsmobile 98 LS I owned many years ago. But I’m retiring in a few months and it was time to reduce the fleet down to a more manageable level.
I feel that the 1989 Brougham was the best all around of this model since the 1980 Fleetwood Brougham. The 307 Olds was adequate for highway cruising and the best of a bad lot as far as engines in these cars go. An uphill freeway entrance ramp into fast moving traffic was a white knuckle affair, with only the bulk and presence of a classic Cadillac to force lesser cars to yield until the Brougham could build speed. But around town and out on the road, it got the job done in typical Cadillac silence.
The styling of the exterior and the interior is where the Brougham really says “Cadillac” to those of us of a certain age. With all the chrome, badges and lights along with that fantastic hood ornament out front, the car is beautiful. The grille of the 1989 is my favorite and I prefer the headlamps and tail lights of the 1989 over later years, but that is simply my personal preference.
The interior of these cars is something else. The leather seats are like butter, big wide seats with double power and arm rests that are just right. The interior lighting is great and the view from the driver’s seat is fantastic.
I was always smiling when I drove the car. The Brougham is big and heavy, and handling should be taken in the context of the times and the target market. But ride is where this car excels. Back in the day, the ads referred to the time spent driving this car as “The Cadillac Hour”. This was the kind of luxury car that GM excelled at building and we may never see the likes of this car again. Times change. Cars change. We all change.
I bought the car from the estate of the original owner. It had been garaged and dealer maintained its entire life. That said, there were items that required attention over the years, and I addressed them all, from the temperamental climate control system to the air ride suspension to the falling headliner to the cracked plastic fender extensions and back to the climate control system. But the drive train was bullet proof, the bright work sparkled, the paint was great and the car was unmistakably a Cadillac.
Maybe I made the decision too quickly to put the Brougham on the market, but it is behind me now. I had a strong offer within 15 minutes after putting a sign on it, the eventual buyer called before lunch, the deal was sealed at the end of his test drive while we sat in the car, and I had a back up offer waiting if the deal had not gone through. The car went to a good home, a Cadillac lover that has had two of these previously and drove up to see the car in a new Escalade. I hope and expect that the new owner will love and enjoy the car as much as the original owner and then I loved and enjoyed the car, and I hope to someday see him cruising down the road in that beautiful Brougham with a big smile on his face. It’s a wonderful car. Best of all, it’s a Cadillac.
I love these big Cadillac’s one of most beautiful car in the world. So much comfort and luxury. This is a Cadillac to have.
Seeing the little kids in an old car just adds to the bittersweet quality of this story. Both of mine are now taller than my wife, making older pics of them feel even rarer than a shiny brown ’89 Cadillac.
I just saw my 1990 gray Brougham a few weeks ago and can totally concur with your story. She was a very good reliable as the sun car that took me and my friends to many places over the 3 years I owned it. My folks were always bewildered by this massive piece of iron and my love for American over sized cars. One time my two friends and I went to an antique sale and loaded this car up with enough stuff to fill my front lawn. it was quite a site! We then came across someone we knew walking a long way from home and stuffed him in there too. The things we could fit and stuff into that car were spellbinding.
I am surprised that you consider this car “massive”. My 1976 Riviera (a coupe) had a longer wheelbase, longer and wider body (122, 223, 80 inches). At the time this car was not huge, huge was the 1975 Cadillac Fleetwood sedans. My 1978 Olds 98 sedan was a nice sized car, and I don’t think the Cadillacs are much bigger.
They’re “massive” and heavy looking compared to much of what is on the road today, with the exception of the biggest of the current SUVs.
You’re right that they’re compact compared to their immediate predecessors from, say, 1965-1976, and especially 1971-76. As is almost everything else ever built.
GM’s designers really excelled in downsizing these because they still had that big, heavy look even if they were actually quite a bit smaller outside and lost hip and shoulder room inside from their predecessors.
Compact they were not, not at more than 220 inches in length. The 93-96 models were 225 inches long, making them as long as the 1959 models. The thing is that the 1976 Fleetwoods were nearly 235 inches longd, which made them really big.
I do understand that for many people who grew up after the mid 70’s and have experience with mostly FWD cars, that these are boats.
I didn’t say they were compact, I said they were compact compared to their predecessors.
To clarify my earlier comments:
In my opinion the downsized 77-96 BOF Cadillacs were not nearly as large as earlier Cadillacs: in the 60’s Cadillac length was about 225 inches, increasing to 228 before 1970. Due in large part to the bumper standards the mid 70’s Cadillacs were quite long.
The first generation Seville was 204 inches long, making it a large compact car perhaps, although I think of it as more a midsize. The downsized deVille/Fleetwoods are about 221 inches in length, making them larger than full size Chevrolets of the 60’s.
I am not quite sure what Yoman’s thinking is on oversized American cars. More to the point, I don’t know what his thinking is on what the right size should be.
Calling the 89 or 90 Brougham’s “massive” is meaningful only in comparison to the Cimarron. Lincoln’s Town Car’s were also in this size range.
204″ a large compact? Only in comparison to a 235″ behemoth. A recent Crown Vic is only 211! I know relative sizes were different compared to now, and that outside dimensions masked far smaller interior dimensions, but I still fail to see how something that long could even be considered mid-size…
221-225″ long is massive by today’s standards and my 1990 Brougham was almost always referred to as a boat. I grew up in the 70’s so am very familiar with the 71-76 Devilles and the equally large Town Cars up to 1979. IMO those were larger than they needed to be with much wasted space. The past 10 years or more sees a 200″ car as large so my Brougham is considered massive today.
Back in ’00 I traded my ’89 Sedan De Ville in on a sweet ’90 Mark VII LSC (wish I still had that car…). A couple of weeks later I saw it dead on the side of I-77 a few miles south of downtown Cleveland still wearing a temp tag. I guess I traded it in just in time…
I saw my ’87 Crown Victoria driving around just once after I saw it. It had 192K on it when I sold, so no idea what happened to it. I’ve never seen my ’87 Brougham again. Just sold my ’93 Fleetwood Brougham a few days ago. Come to think of it, I don’t remember ever seeing any of my parents’ cars after they were sold, either.
So Orrin, did I miss where you shared what your newest ride is? Do tell!
Took the hardtop plunge and found a very low mileage 1975 Oldsmobile 98 Regency sedan. It’s funny how people seem to want the Cadillacs and these are passed over. In some ways, those church steeple taillights remind me of both the ’65-’66 Cadillacs and the ’80-’89 Brougham a lot. And there’s something about those push button velour thrones in the Regency, and I love how high the rear seats are, allowing a panoramic view of the road. Needs one or two little things, and the usual bumper fillers in back, but I have the replacement parts lined up and painted, so I think my body guy can handle it. Original radio still works and someone installed a tape adapter; like you, I can foresee many hours of big band music wafting out of the speakers, with my iPod hooked into the tape adapter. Tiny hairline crack in the dashboard I’m going to patch. Otherwise, looks pretty high quality and I really like the old style “multiple piece” headliner (there’s a technical name for this, I know). Will post pictures when the minor details are straightened out. Love that Olds 455 burble, though…one of the smoothest engines I’ve experienced. Reminds me of a Chris Craft…
I’m holding onto the ’77 Buick for the moment until all of the touch up on the Olds is complete (because I usually need a car once every 5-6 days), but will then be putting that up for sale. I had to get rid of the ’93 Cadillac though, it was worth a try but I just never clicked with it and therefore there was no reason to keep it.
Towards late summer, I intend to look for a FWD “winter beater”, as I’d like to save the big 98 from rusting (maybe the more accurate phrase is “delay” the 98 from rusting!). Even though I don’t drive more than once or twice a week, I don’t think northeastern salt would agree with it. Maybe I’ll find a FWD 98. Or maybe I’ll just be smarter than that and get a used Civic.
I look forward to a proper writeup once you get it sorted out. Those were really, really pretty cars, and quite popular here in the midwest back in the day. A friend’s father had a copper 75 Custom Cruiser, and boy did that thing have a drinking problem. But, fuel is cheap these days, so enjoy it while you may. Funny, last night I just re-read the piece I did on a 76 Buick Electra 2 door. I have the same mixed feelings about these Ninety Eights. But there was abso-freaking-lutely nothing wrong with the 455/THM that powered those things. I too love the sound of that big Olds V8.
Is this your first radio with the windshield antenna? I will warn you, reception of weaker stations will suck. But with an i-Pod loaded with Count Basie, who cares. 🙂
There will be one. Couldn’t agree more on the Basie, I’m thinking of pretty much anything from the “Straight Ahead” album. Always though Carmine’s analogy of this car to Jackie Gleason was apt.
I hear mileage is 10/14. Honestly, I’m okay with that as I rarely drive more than once or twice a week, and generally on the highway.
The Buick also has a window glass antenna which the prior owner replaced with a magnet-on on the back. It’s not much better, I’m guessing. This Olds is odd because it has that antenna but also a regular antenna on the front fender. I’m wondering whether it was aftermarket or something an irate 98 buyer came back and had his dealer install.
Orrin, for some Basie in a 75 Olds, consider the Big Band album from 1975. One of the last really creative albums the band put out, and the same year as your car.
I never saw one of these with a mast antenna, I would bet a retrofit. AM reception was weak with the windshield wires, and a lot of older folks were still tuning into AM stations in 1975. I used to get static as the wipers crossed the wires in some conditions in my mom’s 74 LeMans.
I’ll find a FWD 98. Or maybe I’ll just be smarter than that and get a used Civic.
I didn’t care for the way my Jetta became encrusted with salt last winter, so have been sniffing around for a beater for next winter. As I am easily confused, a priority for a beater would be controls, particularly lights and wipers, that work the same as the Jetta.
The VW dealer in Ann Arbor has a 2004 Jetta on their used lot, only 61K miles. Looks nice. It has the old 2L 4 cylinder, which uses a timing belt.
Had occasion to be at the VW dealer in Farmington Hills this morning. Realizing that that 04 Jetta is undoubtedly due for a belt, I asked what the cost would be for new belt, water pump, tensioner and flush and fill coolant. I did this on my Civic in 05 and it was about $450. The cost on the VeeDub? $1,303.41
Takeaway: it pays to know the service interval of a timing belt before you buy a beater.
Haha I am the same way about posting pics before I can get an old car as presentable as possible. It will be interesting to hear your comments about how those 71-76 models drive, I’ve never driven one.
Must be pretty great out on the road but around town? Can’t imagine having to park a car longer than a Brougham! You have about three inches more width to deal with too. I wonder if it will handle as nicely as the ’77 Buick.
It is my recall that they handled pretty well for as big as they were. Certainly better than the big FoMoCo cars, though I think the Fords had the edge in ride and quiet on smooth, flat roads. I think the biggest difference is that these were not as stiff structurally as the 77 and up GM B and C body cars.
You know, I haven’t taken it out on a really twisty mountain road yet (and when I do I’m not going to drive it like I stole it anyway), but just driving around I’m not noticing a huge handling difference between it and the “little” Buick. Both of their front ends are in good shape and both have new shocks, so it’s a fair comparison. I mean, I swing out a little more to make a turn, perhaps, but not really, yeah, there’s more car in front of and behind me to deal with but honestly, it’s really not bad at all. I noticed the same thing in the ’76 CDV I test drove a few months back. I was expecting this totally unmanageable water bed of a car, and it wasn’t.
The real pleasure has been getting that big block up to cruising speed. There seems to be no reason for full throttle. Ever.
I decided to keep the Buick, by the way. It’s been such a good car and the contrasts between the two C-Bodies mean not just a write up on the Olds but at some point a full out comparo will have to be done. So far I now get Jack Baruth’s statement in his ’76 Talisman review from years ago. He said that a ’77 Cadillac was closer to a new 3 series than the ’76. I drove the Olds to an out of town court appearance upstate on Monday and the Buick to a NJ court date today. Love them both and the Olds is surprisingly responsive for something that size but the Buick is like a sports sedan in comparison. Definitely closer to a modern Camry than to a ’75.
I have never seen any of my previous vehicles again after I sold them….They were traded in at dealerships rather than sold off privately…so they were probably sent off to Mom and Pop used car lots somewhere.
Years ago, we saw my Dad’s old 65 Impala 4 door hardtop running around town after my Dad had traded it in for a new 73 Chevy Suburban.
The 65 had been repainted at some point after my Dad sold it and it looked sharp in its two tone crocus yellow with ermine white roof once again..
Talk about seller’s remorse.
That ’65 was one car that my Dad was sorry he got rid of….The 73 Suburban rusted apart within 6 years….
I didn’t see this first time around, so I’ll say it’s a very nice story about what sounds like a great car. Nice to see that the family thought well of it too! JP, did you ever see the car again after this 2011 encounter?
I really don’t think I’ve ever seen any of my cars after my ownership, other than the Accord I sold to my Dad. Two were totaled, and one was donated to a nonprofit in a different part of the state, so I guess I’ve only ever sold two cars locally. But I never saw either again. The guy who bought my ’82 Malibu was a student who told me he might fix it up for his brother back home, so it may have departed also. The Marauder? I’ve always wondered where it ended up, since I traded it in on the Kia. There’s a pretty active owners’ community online but whoever bought it didn’t seem to be a member.
Chris, I cannot recall seeing the car again. The street where I saw it was not a route I normally take, and I didn’t really have any desire to stalk the guy.
I bought my ’71 Buick Riviera from an old man in 1997. He had owned it for 22 years and said he would probably cry when I leave with it. But he needed the money.
A few years after I bought it I rebuilt the tired 455 and put in a bigger cam and a few other mods. I went by the old mans house and let him drive it around the block. He appreciated that! In 2005 I had the car painted from an ugly 70’s brown to a golden-red color. I went by his house again and took a picture with him and the car. His neighbors were outside and he got to tell them about his old car. That was the last time I saw him, I went by a few years later and it looked like the house had changed hands. I’m glad I got to brighten his day a couple time!