(First Posted October 20, 2013) I used to play a game on Craigslist. Ok, OK, I’ll be honest, I still do. I will search “Cars For Sale – By Owner” and put in a price range from $10-$1000. Then I will see what pops up that is interesting. Then repeat for $1001-$2000 and so on. It’s a good way to keep up on top of the used market but every once in a while you see something you didn’t want to see…
And so it went with me. Back when I had my 1986 VW GTI, the next step up was the 16v version of the same car. (Actually, at that time, VR6 swaps were getting press, but I digress). Anyway, even though I loved my GTI, I would always stare hard at any 16v that drove by. More power is always better, right?
So one day, many years later, I saw an ad for a 1988 VW GTI 16v for around $1,400. The miles were under 100k, the car seemed OK in the ad. I called my buddy Jim for his opinion. As always he said to go for it (that’s why I like calling him for advice), weirdly enough, he was looking for a project GTI of his own, but an older 8v like the one I had. So I drove to where the seller was and took a look and a drive.
You all know where this is going, I rarely see a car I don’t like, so some money (less than asking) changed hands and the car was mine. The next day I got my wife to drive me back and I picked it up. I have no pictures of my car, everything here is from the ‘net, it is almost impossible to find good pix of a stock one of these! (Funny though that my other GTI kept popping up on Google from the old COAL a few months back).
When VW introduced the Mk2 GTI in 1985, they only offered it in 8v guise over here. However, the Scirocco was already available as a 16v and it was an obvious upgrade path. Sure enough, in 1987 VW dropped the 16v engine into the GTI and now had a 2-model range with the older GTI getting decontented into a VW GT (no “I” in the title, but the same old 8v engine but losing its rear discs along with some other changes).
The engine was a DOHC 1.8l four-cylinder with a 16-valve head. It produced 123hp at 5800rpm (a gain of 21, which sounds ludicrous today), 120lb-ft of torque at 4250rpm and still had the somewhat notchy but close-ratio 5-speed manual transmission, no automatic available at any price.
The additional power was nice but in reality the 8v’s torque curve was better, so people are torn as to which they prefer. With just under 2300 pounds to haul around, both these engines do just fine, and the handling is superb to boot.
The 16v got more changes than just the engine. The antenna became one of those cool at the time stingers at the rear of the roof, and the area under the bumpers was painted black. The wheels were the “teardrop” alloys and the tires were wider (205/55-14). Two new colors debuted, a Blue Mica as well as a Dark Red Mica. Mine, however was the ubiquitous Tornado Red.
Inside, the seats were a different pattern with a velour cloth seating area reminiscent of the original US GTI (’83-’84) but with black vinyl bolsters. The steering wheel was a retrograde change, replacing the very nice older 4-spoke with the four round horn buttons was a different 4-spoke with a hideous center portion, the texture of which did not match the surrounding texture one whit (VW had the same issue in many of its models in the late 80’s and early 90’s). At least it was leather-wrapped.
Options included AC, sunroof, cruise control (rare), a couple of radio choices, a power window/lock/mirror package (extremely rare), metallic paint and that dealer favorite, floor mats.
Other than that, pretty much the same. Even the headlights were still the square ones, the double-rounds would not be installed for several more years, but was always a popular upgrade.
So what did I do with mine? Mainly just drove it around for fun and enjoyed the nostalgia of owning a car very similar to one I’d already had but supposedly improved upon. It did need a few things – as with my old one, the seat bolster was worn out on the driver’s side. Back on Craigslist I found a guy about an hour away that was unloading a set of seats the same as mine.
Of course his had the same issue on the driver’s side but the passenger’s was good. So I met him halfway (literally and figuratively) and took the passenger seat off his hands. Back at home I disassembled my driver’s seat and the new seat and mix and matched the best of both to create a much better seat for myself.
This MAY have been an easier way to get to the waterpump…
The temperature gauge would get to reading higher than it should as well and I noticed some coolant loss. Eventually I traced it to the waterpump so I ordered a new one. That was a job and a half – since my car had AC, the compressor had to be moved and various other items removed leaving still almost no access to replace the waterpump. It took me a couple of days in my garage but eventually I managed it. Problem solved.
The smallest problem was one that occurs on many of these VW’s (and Audi’s too, same part) – the locator clip for the hood rod was broken. At the dealer I looked at one and decided I was not going to pay the $4 charge he wanted for a tiny piece of plastic. I found a place online that had them for about 25c each. Along with oil filters and a couple of other maintenance parts I needed another couple of dollars of parts to get the free shipping. So I just ordered about ten of the clips. Then at work I posted one on eBay for $3, shipping included. It sold within minutes. So I posted the rest and sold them, sticking them in an envelope with first-class letter postage.
I then contacted the vendor and asked him how many he had and would a volume discount be possible. In the end I bought several hundred for about a dime each and sold about a hundred on eBay before getting bored of the whole thing. The money went into my daughter’s college fund. I actually still have a couple of bags full of clips, if anyone wants one (or a dozen) let me know! (I know, I must stop hoarding this stuff, I can’t believe I moved it halfway across the country a few years ago) – Update 3/18/18: I still have them, in fact a bag is on my desk right now as you read this. I’m well in the money on them at this point, so getting rid of them is a low priority. Then again, college is looming for my oldest so maybe I need to reactivate that ebay account after all.
Anyway, the GTI was a nice diversion away from the “grown-up” cars we currently had in the stable but with work, a house and a family, it eventually got less and less use. One day while moving the cars around in the driveway again I realized I’d gotten out of it what I wanted and placed an ad, it sold fairly quickly and is a fun footnote on my car list…
Well done on finding such a straight unmolested example Jim.Over here these cars had a brutal existence,thrashed to the redline,wrapped around lamp posts then “customised” with awful body kits,drain pipe exhausts,big alloy wheels,rubber band tyres and a set of speakers that Motorhead should be using,finish with a loud paint job badly done.
Yeah it takes boy racers a while to figure out they arent fast and dont corner well never mind how big the tyres are, theres one of these protecting grass where I shot the Austin 1800 ute last week same colour n all.
Oh, they corner extremely well and are not exactly slow, and compared to what else was available in its day were certainly competetive if not beyond most of the competition. However they are now going on 25 years old…I think youthful exuberance just goes beyond the physical limits.
Indeed. It’s all “compared to what?”Their contemporaries were few in number and GTIs have always been sought after.
It is nice to read the thoughts of someone who owned and lived with both the 8v and 16v models. I remember being tempted by a new 16v when they came out, as my 8v was 2 years old and at the end of its warranty. But I liked low end torque better than revving. So I bought a 66 Fury III. 🙂
I have tremendous mixed feelings about my 85 GTI, and your story dredges them up once again. It really was a pleasure to drive. Less of a pleasure to own. I have always wondered if I would have been more forgiving had it been an older car that I paid maybe $2500 for instead of a brand new one that I expected (perhaps unrealistically) to be perfect.
Fun read.
Sorry to dredge up the bad thoughts yet again! I promise this is the last time! I liked the older car better than this one after having had both. Any new car with issues is annoying, but issues in general are a pain if the car is your only one, no matter how much or little one paid…By the late ’80’s these care were getting to be too heavy, too expensive and too unreliable compared to the competition (Civic SI, Corolla GTS, etc.) and the beginning of the near-end of VW in the US.
Your Fury is probably still out there.
The 16v was a real disappointment. Not only did it lack grunt, but it had begun to pack on the pounds. Our Bilstein Rabbit 8v was two seconds a lap faster than the showroom stock 16v GTIs at Summit Point, WV. For those of you who think the Bilstein Rabbits were heavily tweaked racers, think again. My car owner wouldn’t even allow me to advance the timing on the thing. One of the sycophant VW zines at the time wondered why the 4-wheel disc cars didn’t brake as well as the earlier front disc only cars. It’s because they had too much rear brake. Much end swapping and strong language when late braking into curves, especially when wet. We took the pole at Summit and then discovered that we had forgotten to adjust the rear brakes-we didn’t have any. To those of you who have tried such simple acts as adjusting alternator belt tension on Gen I GTIs and later, let alone water pump replacement, the term “Mickey Mouse Engineering” will be forever imprinted on your mind.
The original Rabbit GTI was the better driver’s car than the Mk2, as Kevin states, mainly due to the weight increase. However for a daily driver the Mk2 is in my opinion quite a bit more refined, no doubt partly to said weight increase. On a track, and especially a shorter, more windy one, the 8V engines would be better than the 16v’s. On a longer track though with more open corners I think the 16v might do better. Looking at a map of Summit Point but without any personal experience I’d guess that the Rabbit would pick up all kinds of time from turns 5-9 and that the newer car would then try to claw some it back on the straight although it looks to be a fairly short straight.
I’ve never compared them side to side but since the same engines that were transverse in the VW were installed longitudinally in Audi’s, I wonder if that make access/repair/adjustment any easier.
A fun read indeed.
I remember when the GTI first came out back in ’83, thus the “first pocket rocket”, at least in the states anyway, and it being SUCH a big deal at the time.
I still see some of these around Seattle that still look at least mostly stock. My best friend for a couple of years or so, had the classic Tornado Red GLI. His was the ’85 Jetta, with gray leather if I recall. He’d bought it in Lenexa KS to replace his old Chevy Luv truck, just so he could drive around the area in the summers with AC, instead of peeling himself out of his un-air conditioned truck during those hot, and humid summers.
If it was an 85, it would have been Mars Red, which is more orange than the Tornado, which debuted in ’86. GLI’s were nice, some say the extra weight in the rear causes them to handle a bit better (more balanced).
I like the brick red in the ’83-’84 GTI very much myself. It’s a shade you don’t see very often.
Is this “brick red” ? Rabbits are not all that uncommon a sighting for me, but this is the only unmolested Mk1 GTI I’ve seen in years. It’s an ’84, and still someone’s daily driver. I see it parked in this same spot all the time (usually hauling around stuff in the hatch).
…or is this not even a GTI? Just noticed it doesn’t have the badge on the grille – maybe it’s an imposter?
That’s the color. And that is a Mk1 GTI in pretty good condition! There was a fairly limited edition Rabbit S in 1982 that had many of not all of the styling cues of the ’83 GTI, but not the engine.
I was thinking the ’82 Rabbit S too. My friend back then has a Rabbit S in metallic gold with beige S-specific vinyl seats and the 1st gen Scirocco steering wheel, a car that fooled many people who wondered how he got a gold GTI.
The Golf Mk2 GTI was more comfort than speed and fun. Like Gem said, it’s hard to find a clean, well-maintained, factory-original older hot hatch. Most of them are trashed, both mechanically and optically. Just like old AMG Mercedes and BMWs M-series, the thirth (and further) owner has just enough money to buy one and pay for the fuel. But not for proper maintenance.
There seems to be some sort of horsepower war going on in the “GTI-class” right now.
For example, 360 hp for the brand new Mercedes A-class (a compact hatchback) A45 AMG.
Until now somewhere around 250 hp was the norm for the Golf-class hatchbacks and 200 hp for the smaller ones like the Renault Clio and Peugeot 208.
I never had the 16v version, but I owned an ’86 (8v) for 14 years (I was actually the 2nd owner, I got a chance to buy it from someone I worked with that moved to Chicago and figured he didn’t need a car there, but had just bought it, so it was a good deal). I’ve never owned a 16 v car (my current car is a 2000 Golf 2.0 8v), and my car before the GTI was a ’78 Scirocco.
I still have to say the Scirocco was my favorite of the 3, but I was young when I had it, I probably wouldn’t like it so much now (low entry, noisy, etc.) but to me it was a knockout styling wise and for some (subjective) reason seemed fast to me (though I probably was partly due to sitting so low in the car, and the light weight that made it seem that way). When had a mover ship all my earthly belongings when I relocated from the northeast (30 years ago) the weight of my shipment including my Scirocco and all my heavy school books was only 3500 lbs (I’m sure I have quite a bit more now).
I’ve lived with my current Golf just about as long as I had the GTI…though 2 years before I bought the Golf the GTI was in a fender bender in the parking lot where I worked (kind of a t-bone in the front)…they totalled the car due to its age, but it wasn’t really that bad a hit….bought salvaged hood, radiator support, grill, bumper, from wrecking yard and a few friends from work helped me straighten parts of the unibody so the mounting holes for the fender would line up. I never bothered to paint it, so I kind of had a quasi-harlequin VW (the year they were offering new A3 models purposely with that paint scheme). I had the normal issues mentioned with seats (got really good at working with hogring pliers) and even the weatherstripping (couldn’t buy a good piece of rubber from salvage yard in sunbelt where I live, so I had one shipped from a northern wrecking yard…the piece runs from A pillar to C pillar and resembled a giant hockey stick, but they no longer sold the piece, couldn’t get one from west coast metric or anyone else I knew of, and it kept the water leaks at bay.
When I finally sold the GTI, I had people actually taking appointments to see it…despite its outward appearance. It had the CIS-E injection which I think was popular with tuners, being a couple years before Digifant, and I think had timing change so it had maybe 5 more HP than the 1985 car. One guy tried to be pushy and look at it ahead of anyone else, but I stuck to my guns, and ended up selling it to a local VW mechanic who wanted it for his wife…he drove up in an A2 Jetta, and I felt like I was forwarding it on to a good home. Only problem people looking at it mentioned was it didn’t have power steering (with 60 series tires it was a bit of a handful to park, despite having pretty low curb weight).
I’m sure it won’t be that way with my Golf, but so far I’m pretty satisfied with it, as long as I can keep it going…though one of these days I’ll probably get tired of the manual transmission (darned arthritis in the knee!) and want to get more of an appliance (but at least I had the VWs when I was younger!)
Another great COAL article Jim, they are much appreciated.
You have very interesting and eclectic tastes in vehicles.
I enjoy reading about many of the cars you’ve owned.
Luckily, you are quite talented mechanically, as many of your choices are technically
quite sophisticated vehicles to work on, and could be pricey to maintain.
Especially buying pre-owned, it’s so difficult to find vehicles with advanced
features that haven’t been neglected or abused.
I always liked the clean, purposeful design of the MK2 Golf best. MK1 next.
You have great taste in cars!
Thank you – the reality is I have probably had more raw luck than outright mechanical ability. But if I have the time I am certainly willing to give it the old college try! As long as you can figure out what the problem is it is generally not that hard to replace a component with a fairly basic set of tools.
Man, those are beautiful cars. My dad had a non-GTI 86 with the square headlights, so I tend to like those better.
By the way, Tomica makes some pretty amazing diecast version’s of these for a decent price. Check it out: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tomica-Limited-Vintage-NEO-LV-N70a-VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-II-GTI-16V-1-64-TOMY-TOMYTEC-/221261858840?pt=Diecast_Vehicles&hash=item33843c0818
having 88 Volkswagen GTI roll cage and everything you guys might be interested in
You know, from time to time, I also play a similar Craigslist game, Jim Klein. I’ll even check for cars in cities hundreds or even a thousand or more miles away. I always find cars that I really, really want to buy. So far I haven’t bought anything (for myself). Actually it was only a few months back that I bought a $2K car for an unmarried niece with a baby who needed a car to get to work. OK, what’s more relevant to the article is that back in the day, a close friend – an Air Force buddy who I shared an apartment with, bought a new first gen GTI. Not sure which year, but it was red and a fun car. Will also say that after some expensive repairs at the dealership, he now only buys new Hondas.
I owned an 86 GTI, tornado red with sunroof and radio prep….the only options. It replaced my 80 Scirocco. The GTI was quicker, more comfortable but not near as attractive,
I replaced the 86 with an 88 GTI 16V in alpine white. The white looked great with the black contrasting fender flares, rocker panel molding and body side molding.
The 16V had the sunroof, A/C and power steering…great engine but really lacking in torque…It still may be my favorite VW though and I’ve owned GTIs, a Corrado, a Fox and 2 Scirocco’s, In fact I now have an 81 Scirocco S. Still one of the best looking cars ever produced
I love the original Scirocco, yours is especially sharp. We need to do a proper CC on one. Interested in doing a writeup on your car?
Funny that I surf craigslist the same way, that’s how I ended up with my DOHC 99 Neon coupe. But to be more related to this post I did own one GTI but it was a 97 VR6. It was a good car, can’t really comment on it’s reliability though due to only owning it for a week before rolling it.
As a followup to my post – Looking at the pictures again there are few anomalies/observations for you car spotters (Brendan, I’m looking at you!) out there:
1. Some pictures are of 1987’s, some are of 88’s or newer. ’87’s still had the small front triangle fixed side glass, ’88’s got the larger one-piece windows. The grille also changed from the older multi-slat to the newer 3-slat. At the rear, the VW logo moved to the middle.
2. The top (lead) photo car has either had a new hatch installed or this one repainted. Real GTI hatches have a matte black applique around the window opening. They also do not have the two little bumps on the lower corners, this one may have had an aftermarket spoiler installed at one point. I think there was a Zender unit that attached at the bottom. This car also has the rear wiper lay-down mod done. Stock they stand upright. (Last picture is a stock rear, shows all items mentioned)
3. All GTI 16v’s got a deeper front lip spoiler with a duct compared to the older 8v’s. It is at least 1.5″ deeper. Maybe it helps keep the car more planted at top speed and cools the breaks better, I do know that it makes the front at least 1.5″ more likely to scrape entering the supermarket parking lot…
nice writeup, not to question……but I remember all GTI’s being just GTIs with nothing separating 16v or 8v until or 89 or 90 when the 8V was actually marketed as an 8v and the 16v was marked at 16v. but both still being marketed as GTIs. this was about the time the euro lights and big bumper became standard. could be wrong. I say that only because I spent alot of time walking VW lots as a poor college student with time to kill. in my quest for one I remember seeing alot of 8V but few 16v. they were more elusive.
No worries, we must have attended college around the same time…
85-86 was just GTI – all with 8v
87-88 was just the 16v, the GTI badge had a small 16v underneath it (You can see it in the pics in the post. The GT (no “I” was a decontented 8v, only around for a couple of years.
89 or 90 and on there were both GTI and GTI 16v. I think it was 1990, when they got the big bumpers, that is when they got the round lights as well. The 16v was obviously more expensive and did not sell as well, it looked very similar, the main exterior differentiation was the BBS wheels. Inside the seats were real Recaro’s.
yeah I remember those bbs rims nice to look at, great on car, but they were low profile and lots of curbrash.
Your hood-clip business is brilliant — my favorite part of this piece 🙂
I have CL searches saved off as well. I’ll scan for Skybirds, Redbirds, & Yellowbirds nationwide on occasion but my normal daily searches are under cars & trucks by owner under $6000; all with “title only” box checked:
1. 1965 | 1966 | 1967 | 1968 | 1969 | 1970 | 1971 | 1972 | 1973 | 1974 | 1975 | 1976 | 1977 | 1978 | 1979 | 1980
2. 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80
3. camaro | firebird | fiero | mustang
I have a 92 2 liter 16v GTI. Best car I have ever owned. Pretty reliable, great motor, most repairs are reasonable. Can’t really complain. It has only gone up in value since I purchased it in 2000 as well. No plans to ever sell it. A couple years ago I added KW coilovers, Neuspeed Springs, Neuspeed Sways… it handles incredibly well. It rides compliant too. I love the simplicity. No power windows and locks and it has a manual sunroof with Recaro seats. Only the stuff I would actually WANT. Perfect, Really.
Jim, I’d be interested in some of those hood clips. I and some of my friends need them for our mk1s
How do I get my hands on one of those clips??
This gen of Jetta/Golf were certainly nice looking and did a lot of things well. Right sized, roomy interiors, good ergonomics, a deceptive feel of quality, a willing 4-cyl engine and they were fun to drive even with the antiquated automatic which my Jetta had – when they were working ok. But my disastrous reliability experience with an ’87 Jetta Carat + arrogant and downright dishonest dealer service turned me off the brand forever and ever. Amen.
The only thing I really miss from that Jetta is the manual-crank sunroof which, curiously, was the only thing that never caused me heartache and always worked perfectly (and never leaked either).
Wow, took 1 1/2 hours to get to the main page after logging in. Nothing but service unavailable from every angle I tried. After dinner was able to get the main page to actually load.
I have played that Craigslist game. When I see a car I really like and it is $1500 and less then I think to myself give it three months. If it isn’t gone in three months then I go oh s&i! and end up buying the car. Well that has happened twice as the cars languished for three months. When I called I was the first caller for one and the first caller for another who wanted the whole car. That is how I ended up with the 67 Park Lane for $950 and the 73 Polara Custom for $1500.
Looks like I lost another long post for some reason, says please wait but does not seem to appear, tried to post it a few times but no luck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-lduWfQWBk
1985 GTI 8V test by Motorweek
In 1986 Mustang Monthly believe it or not ran a comparison between a 8V GTI and a newly 1.9 motivated Escort GT. If i remember correctly the GTI was a hair faster, a bit better around the corners, even lifting up it’s hind leg, but cost $2000 more. Naturaly being a Ford fanzine they pronounced the Escort the better deal because of that. I owned a 89 Escort GT in 92. It was ok, but I wouldn’t have “tried on” a GTI.
Jim, drop me a line, I need a few of those hood rod clips! And I’ve got a couple cars you’d like to hear about, I reckon.
Ray