The whole Audi 5000/60 Minutes debacle is a story unto itself. For rescue COAL hunters like myself, the 1986 broadcast had the fortunate side effect of depressing Audi resale values for years and years.
I have always liked Audis, in general, though I cannot say I have ever known too much about them.
A neighbor with kids my age had a little Fox. I liked it, though even at my tender age of 8 or so, it seemed very small and tinny. But it was a good looking small car to me.
An older couple at church had an Audi 100LS. They also had a Peugeot 504, so they were pretty unconventional automotively speaking for 1980 or so. I remember the wife ripped one of the doors off, backing out of the garage with the door open.
A doctor up the street from the house where I grew up had one of the 5000’s from the “first generation”. I always thought these were really sharp looking. I took his daughter out a few times and got to drive it. It was a turbodiesel with a stick, if I recall correctly.
Another neighbor we carpooled to school with had one of the first “slippery” 5000’s I had ever seen. It was metallic champagne (a little darker than this picture) with black cloth. I was in 8th grade, so that would be 1983-84. I loved that car, and really liked rolling up to the school in it!
The Cadillac climate control looked painfully out of place in the modern, unfussy interior. I remember wondering why they wouldn’t at least use the same font as everything else on the dash. I think they did change that a model year or two later, if Google is correct.
At the time, my dad was daily driving a 1959 Mercedes “ponton”, the third dad had a Fiat Convertible he drove the four of us kids in,
and the fourth family had a new 1985 or so Cutlass Ciera woodgrain wagon. That’s a pretty eclectic carpool group, and maybe should be another CC article topic altogether!
A lawyer at church had a 4000, I’m not sure of the year. Maybe a 1986, it was one like this, after a reskin to make it look like the big brother 5000.
Years later, my parents bought a new 1998 Audi A4, what had been called the 4000, the 80 and the 90 in prior generations. It was a really good looking car, I thought, silver with black leather. Seemed too tight for a young family with kids and car seats, but it drove very nicely.
It was a 2.8 liter V6 and a 5 speed stick, very responsive and buttery smooth. Luscious dark burled wood all over the place, especially for an “entry” level car. They kept it for about 10 years and liked it a lot, though it did seem to have constant problems. I recall multiple window regulator failures, a water pump or two, the stereo quitting, and an oil leak they kept chasing but never fully resolved, even with replacing the whole pan. They never had another Audi, but replaced it with a new 2008 Passat. Out of the frying pan, and into the fire, you’re probably thinking. After leaving them stranded a few times, the Passat was no more.
Did I learn from their experience? Of course not! Instead, I found myself smitten with a 1996 A6 at the local Ford dealer, in 2004 or so. I did need AWD as we had built the house in the country, but I was driving down the mountain for work. And, our oldest (now a sophomore in college) had started at a new private school the next town over. It was often snowy and icy at our house, but bone dry and 20 degrees warmer down in town where I worked and she went to school. So, it was becoming more of a need than in the past.
It was dark metallic green with grey leather and all that nice dark burl wood again. As I type this, dark metallic green and grey sound like they would not go together, but in person I liked it a lot. It was pretty low miles, 60,000 or so, and they were only asking $9,000.00. This wasn’t a rescue COAL in the sense that it needed work, but it was a rescue in that it was sitting on a lot full of used dually F350’s in our smallish town. They had taken it on trade for a new truck and really didn’t want it.
The MSRP in 1996 was about $35,000.00 with the leather and Bose added in (about $55,000.00 today). I offered $7,500.00 and we settled on $8,000.00 which was about trade-in value on the A6 at the time, with them giving me about $4,000.00 for the 560SEL. As an aside, I saw the 560SEL around town for years after that. The last time, it was being driven by a young cashier at the local ACE hardware and had duct tape over a missing or broken rear door window.
It had worn “Grand Spirit” tires. I don’t know why or how I remember that, but I do. I replaced them right off with Michelin Harmonys which rendered a huge improvement in ride and quiet.
I was very happy with the ride, quiet, comfort and performance of the A6. But shortly after our relationship started, I arrived at a big client’s office and could not shut the key off. The ignition tumbler wouldn’t turn, no matter what I tried. I had to leave it running, while I went into my meeting! I called the nearest dealer about an hour away, and they said it would have to be towed in to replace the tumbler, as it could also fail in such a manner that the steering wheel would lock. So, off it went. It ran out of gas by the time the rollback arrived, so they winched it on.
Not long after that, the sunroof stuck open. Actually, more than being “stuck”, it just took on a mind of it’s own. It would move, but would not “park” itself closed. It would stop wherever it darn well pleased, closed or not. So, off to the dealer again, but at least this time we could drive there. They replaced the switch and all seemed right for a few weeks.
I don’t recall if the oil leak was next, or the strange transmission noise upon startup, or the window regulator…..you get the picture. Despite all the things I liked about the car, it was something wrong about every month or two.
The next rescue COAL presented itself in the form of a car owned by a proverbial little old lady in my neighborhood. This was a couple of years later, and we had moved back into town, into an older house on a street of older houses.
I told a few family members I was selling the Audi in case they knew of someone who wanted it. Despite knowing of all my trials and tribulations, a family member back up in the colder area wanted it for herself. I sold it to her for about what I paid for it, which was private party value by then.
This gave me an interesting ringside seat to see how it did over the next decade or so. She just got rid of it, actually. I didn’t see it often in the meantime, but it actually led a pretty trouble-free existence over the ensuing years I’m told. The transmission noise got much worse, but it never failed in any way. She eventually had it repainted, and they did a terrible job. She did have the driver seat recovered, and the rest of the interior had held up pretty well actually. The sunroof repeatedly failed, and the headliner had been ripped out by an unknowing person when I saw it at the end of her ownership. The pixels in the odometer quit gradually, so the miles were unknown by the end.
Overall, pretty impressive and a better performance from a 21 year old Audi than I would have expected!
A guy I worked with in ’98-99 bought several 5000’s after the “runaway” nonsense for almost nothing and he and his wife loved them. I never saw one of them that wasn’t grey/dark silver. His son got one to drive at 16. He kept them all until they rotted out, even doing engine swaps from a corpse car to a good one.
I owned a Fox, and yes it was tinny feeling. It was followed by a Pinto that felt like it was made from cast iron or lead.
To drive, the Fox was as flingable around corners as a Frisbee and even in a straight line felt as eager as a happy pup. The Pinto? Was as flingable as a leaden hammer and as eager as a narcoleptic turtle.
Loved the Fox, but was also infuriated by it’s unexpected breakdowns. The Pinto? Never broke down, but got miserable gas mileage and rode and drove like a covered wagon.
Would only own an Audi today if I had really good roadside assistance and access to an excellent Audi mechanic 24/7….365 days a year.
Trust me, it will break down on that Christmas trip to see family 600 miles away. I’d only have one for close-to-home driving.
Well, considering we just took delivery of our 2016 A7 a few weeks ago, I’m hoping it’s more reliable than our 1999 A6 Avant Quattro. Which was a wonderful car. When it was working properly.
My mum bought 2 new ones, a 1980 and then an 86. The ’80 was the 2nd worst car mt folks ever owned. Dozens of problems over it’s 6 years-too many to recall. It did get sorted out enough for me to drive across the US to B.C. and then down to San Diego where I sold it. Just lost a muffler and battery over 4k+ miles. Back then, no one ever felt such a good handling car or a wheezy 5 cylinder mill.
Her new ’86 was lovely and sexy but also fraught with small problems-no where near as many as the 80 and she loved that ride for quite a few years. I traded a new 86 Celica I bought for a song in Canada in on it and my dad drove it from OR to NY to deliver it to her. I forgot where it ended up but it still looked good-an airplane without wings.
“As I type this, dark metallic green and grey sound like they would not go together”
I knew a guy that had a Pontiac Solstice with a similar combo. Dark green, Grey interior and a Tan top. I have yet to see another optioned like that.
There was a guy in my childhood neighborhood that always had an Audi (Sometimes several) of one model or another in the driveway. I still remember him grumbling to my dad about that 60 Minutes hit piece only because when he got excited his Austrian accent became very pronounced.
Something wrong every month ir so? That is downright dismal.
I think I’d sooner be bored stiff in a Camry.
Now you know why I traded my 74 Fox for my 76 Pinto.
Ironically, I probably could have gotten along pretty well without a car in the mid 70s, as bus service in my area was decent. I just wanted a nice car for weekends and errands that required irregular scheduling. But that Fox of mine would have several “minor” breakdowns at irregular intervals, and then the clutch failed a few payments short of the loan payoff.
The Pinto? In nearly the same mileage had the parking light filament of one of the parking light/turn signal bulbs burn out, and I replaced the original equipment bias ply tires at about the 2 year mark.
Yes, well, as you all know my latest daily driver is a 2016 Lexus ES, a Camry in a Sunday suit. So I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion. After about 6 boring weeks and 4,000 drama-free miles I have no regrets.
Audi entered my picture in several ways. I had a short ride in an Audi 60 and loved it. But I did not buy it when the opportunity arose. My wealthy uncle moved up from air cooled VW’s to an Audi 100 LS. It’s a beautiful airy big comfortable car. Two fraternity brothers had Audis. One was an aging 100 LS. The brother drove it like an octogenarian. The other was an Audi 100, same as 5000. He moved from a Citroen GS to this Audi and he loved it. My brother had an Audi 80 for a year or two and I got to drive it. It surprised me with significant understeer, probably because I was used to significant over steer owning a beetle myself. I almost lost that Audi on a curve on the French Autoroute. A student friend had an Audi 80 as well and lost it to a carburetor fire. The molten metal went down the intake.
It looks like an Audi will be a good teacher of all things automotive. Then you buy a Honda and won’t need a thing you’ve learned.
Save for my 11 y.o. Accord Hybrid at 106k miles-needs a hybrid battery, injectors/plugs and timing belt=$4200 locally, $7000 at the dealer. I did save ~$2k in fuel over the years…oy!
Ha! They kept the promise: you saved fuel. They never promised you’d save money!
Jeff n – That sounds oddly odd for a 2006 Hybrid….a good friend has the same model at 140k miles and has just needed the timing belt…
No guarantees I guess….
Regarding Audi, I’ve always loved their design and owned a 1979 5000 for a few years. Loved that car but would never consider anything but a new one for a daily driver.
The A4 is one of the nicest designs on the road today. Then I read reflections like these and I slap myself….
Yep, there’s a subculture in rebuilding Accord batteries(an 07-the last year) better than the OEM, $2k for the battery and the install is pretty easy. Mine’s charging and discharging bout every 10 miles now. Add 800 for the timing belt and injectors/plugs, another 800 and the car is totaled-nice while it lasted. Maybe a donator depending
upon book value…
Wolfgang: I’ve always thought the Audi 100 was one of the best designs of the past 50 years. It still look beautiful and I have disliked what has come many times as they seem to have never been able to match the 100 in balance, size and design purity.
Though I think VW and Audi currently have the best looking cars out there for the same reasons I loved the 100.
And especially compared to the Infinitis and Lexus on offer these days.
I totally agree about the looks and ride qualities of the Audi 100 LS. It got a lot of praise by the magazines (in Germany) too. The few negatives were the result of design prerogatives and circumstances. The rockers were rather high which made entry/exit a bit cumbersome to some people. Audi decided for passive safety over minor inconvenience. Next was the understeer. For once the engine is very heavy because it is based on a block for the Mercedes Benz Diesel engine, and then it is mounted way forward. This required a long front overhang something the designers neatly glossed over by giving it a pointed nose. And that helped with the turning radius.
The most beautiful variant was the Coupe.
Another aside: Done Hewitt and Morely Safer were clients of one of our antiques shops back in the 80’s and my mom questioned them about their Audi piece as she had her 5000 back then. Her car plummeted in value from the 60 Minutes slam and I told her to make it up in pricing to them.
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/manufacturing-audi-scare-5665.html
I told her to make it up in pricing to them.
Did she also have them make up for the 60 Minutes hit piece on the Jeep CJ5 that huffed and puffed because the tall Jeep was more inclined to roll over than a conventional passenger car?
Remember the NBC piece about GM pickups with the “sidesaddle” gas tanks, where, in their demonstration of how a crash could spill and ignite the gas, you could see the igniters rigged on the tank fire?
Automakers are far from innocent babes in the woods, but the media doesn’t do it’s own credibility any good with it’s obsession with hype and hysteria.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtpMzGN9uWc
Don’t forget CR and the rollover Samurai reports. CR lost the subsequent lawsuit, but the damage had been done. I called BS on that one, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Motor_Corp._v._Consumers_Union_of_the_U.S.,_Inc.#Settlement
Jay Leno said the worst place to be is behind a Pinto, in front of an Audi and next to a Samurai in a curve.
Some vintage fake news.
And the Trooper! Despite being a rabid CR fan I bought a 2001 Trooper anyway (with the slightly widened axle width); they certainly aren’t canyon carvers and you need to understand their limits from being top heavy.
Oh yeah. Or the Dateline piece on the Cavalier that featured a girl who was driving with her boyfriend to get her engagement ring, blew a red left turn arrow and was T-boned by an SUV that killed her boyfriend ?
Close up on girl’s face : “If I’d known the Cavalier was so unsafe, I never would have bought it “. Cut and print !
WTF ?
Cause a deadly accident then blame it on the car ?
But it fit Dateline’s narrative.
The strange thing is that the public eats up these stories about cars not being safe, but then on a hot day you’ll always see at least one or two women, (it’s always women), riding in the passenger seat with their feet up on the dashboard. Right under the dash cover is an airbag that will now smash her knees right through her skull in a crash. Ladies, keep your twinkle toes on the floor.
My wife’s grandmother had one of those reverse acceleration incidents in her ‘84 or ‘85 Rabbit. ‘‘The harder I pressed the brakes the faster it went’’ until BAM. Our neighbor, after finding out she was ok, thanked her for wiping out his ‘81 Buick Skylark. Of his Buick: ‘A fitting end for such a miserable little piece of xxxx.’
I recall that the brake and gas pedals had the same feel, close together which is better for toe/heeling, and were hard to distinguish from each other.
And Car & Driver tested a bunch of cars, including a Vette, to see if the engine could overcome the brakes. None did so it was just pedal misapplication. Try your automatic car sometime with both the pedals mashed to see if your engine overtakes the brakes.
I had a stuck brake caliper once that would not release. With just that one brake locked the car could not be moved. Granted it was a front wheel drive car, so it was a drive wheel locked, but there was no moving it.
I once drove an Audi Fox. Even that small Audi was intoxicating to drive. I understand the allure. But happy, contented long term Audi owners seem to be rare people.
Reading this brings back memories. My first car was a 1997 A4 2.8 FrontTrak (Audi speak for not checking the Quattro box), with a five speed. Same engine as your A6. Got it as a CPO in 2000 for the same price as a new base Jetta. NC was not a big Audi state at the time. It had a gorgeous pearl white exterior and a grey/black two-tone leather with wood on the dash and all the doors. Have not had a car with an as well trimmed interior since.
However, I can relate to just about every issue you mentioned. I had the sunroof problem twice (once under warranty, once with out), ignition switch went bad, turn signal stopped blinking ($1500), ac compressor went bad (and somehow managed to kill the engine at the same time), it never had power steering at idle (according to my Audi dealer, they all did that and I was too naive to doubt them) and on and on.
That said, I loved that car. Justified every repair. Drove it for 6 years. Would have kept it longer except it got rear ended 12 miles shy of 100k. Walked away with a sizable insurance check and promptly bought a G35x. Much as I loved that Audi, I wasn’t foolish to role the dice on another one.
The electronic climate control should have been more like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24140175@N02/3353462133/in/photolist-67knsD-67kspK-67ptA5-67ku2n-6yFNCb-67pzAf-67preW-67pHmy-67kw4M-6yFSgW-6yFV69-67kh4H-67kqbR-pPsK2v-5Zt2aE-67kkdD-8gsMrq-6yFUoG-67pG8C-67pxvs-67kcXz-67kbMP-54YwrC-ru29PB-s9fqcS-sqQ5yB-rtPEkA-sqEmCh-rtPEyS-sowVNY-sowVnY-yZHLii-UvSh3o-67ko2R-67pCch-67kosR-67pDf1-67kfnM-q6PR4v-d3Egzj-67pBDJ-67pvRS-4Zw2Uy-dRGgmU-6yBuU6-nVeEX7-ejAF4F-ejGpyG-6yFXdq-RBYzTZ
Africa is a good Place to test automobile brands then you Wonder there are surviving 30 Peugeot 504 and 505 for every stranded Audi Cars
FYI Audi 5000 diesels were not turbocharged. They were naturally aspirated, slightly de-bored versions of the standard five cylinder gas engine and made, I think, about 67 horsepower.
Saw a few “unintended acceleration” items about BMW’s and cruise control, just thought it was the people driving them. Then, while delivering a customer 750Li sedan to the owner, 30 miles north of town, I turned onto the long sweeping freeway ramp. I admit I floored it, when it reached 70 mph, I let off. There was a slight stumble, then it was max acceleration, the cruise had turned on, headed for outer space. There wasn’t much traffic and there was room to try options. I didn’t trust turning it off, the steering column could lock, I tried shutting off cruise, it wouldn’t, the car was already pushing past 120 mph. If I could manage to get it in Park it would destroy lots of expensive parts, and possible control problems (passing 135 mph), pressure on the brakes slowed it, so the plan was formed, I shifted into Neutral. Then started braking. The tach was pegged soon as I shifted, the rev limiter was hit constantly for probably 15 seconds. Then the cruise shut off, and everything was normal again. Back in Drive no further problem. I told the customer, and all other customers than had cruise on these to shift to neutral soon as they could if it happened. Customer response told me 4 had problems in the next year. I figured, it being a German car with their tech, when it hit neutral and revved out, there would be a safe guard, or shutdown to prevent damage. I could see unprepared drivers panicking I’d had Chrysler products go wild, but with the brake/vacuum dump valve, they were controllable I don’t trust newer cars management systems, and haven’t since the Airbus intro when they tried to get it to land at the airport, and the plane over rode the pilots, fling into a forest, where it’s computers said the airport was. Airbus lets the computer have the final decision, Boeing pilots can over ride. Since most can be hacked, I’ll keep driving my old school cars.
I recall that Airhead crash landing.
I’ve had old school rides have throttle plates stuck open, broken springs/cables but only for a few jabs at the pedal freed them up. I did the neutral trick also but considering the weak driving skills/training in the USA, most would freak and panic. A good e.g is the Camry situation a few years back.
JAM that pedal down, pull the e-brake or worst case, head at an angle for the guardrail and turn the key off. That’s why no pushbutton start rides for me-dangerous gimmick.
Applying the brakes as soon as the event started would have been the best solution as modern brakes are always much more powerful than engines. And since all cars have had rev limiters, for quite some time, putting it in neutral would also have been an obvious immediate reaction.
I have had 3 Audi’s over the years. 1980 4000, 1990 100 and 1991 100.
I bought the 1980 4000 in 1987.
This was only my second car and I had no idea about the red flags to look for.
I loved driving the car. Handled great. AC stunk (but I was in the deep South). Electrical issues that I never was able to fix. Timing belt slipped and the engine blew.
I bought the 1991 100 in 1996. Car was babied by its former owner. Drove it all over New England. No issues in 1.5 years. Hit some debris on the interstate which damaged the transmission. Could not afford to fix, so traded it in.
I bought the 1990 100 in 2000. Car was a bit ratty, but was cheap. Don’t ever buy a cheap European car for a daily driver. So MANY issues. Most of the issues were preventable if the previous owner had maintained the car.
Traded in the car after one year of ownership when it started to consume copious amounts of radiator fluid.
Still miss that 1991 100. Most enjoyable car that I have ever owned.
I had an “unintended acceleration ” experience in a friend’s Range Rover. He had just bought it used and wanted my assessment of his purchase. Every time I hit the brakes, the engine would accelerate. The problem was my damn wide foot was catching on the edge of the gas pedal when I pressed the brake pedal. He is not very mechanically inclined, and even though we established that the whole issue was operator error, he lost confidence in the Range Rover and dumped it after a few months. I felt pretty bad about alarming him over nothing and refuse to test drive his current Cayenne S.