Some fantasy shopping led me to this pristine ’73 Olds Ninety-Eight. ’71-’76 GM B and C bodies are usually in abundance on eBay and it begs the question: where do all these pristine full-sizers come from?
I also had the good fortune of finding a much less common ’77 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham, listed by the same seller, and got to wondering which of the two enormous sedans would be most popular among CC-ers. Given the choice of these two C bodies, would you make room in your garage for the big “Youngmobile” or the Impostor Imperial?
The ’71-’76 GM B & C bodies are not very popular around here, and have even been cited as a Deadly Sin, but even as a Mopar partisan, I can’t help but think they were the most attractive full-sizers of the period and the Oldsmobiles in particular were quite handsome.
The New Yorker Brougham’s neoclassical pastiche, on the other hand, shows a complete break with the previous Fuselage cars, which taught Chrysler that “modern” was no longer a draw in big cars. All decked out in white as this example is, however, there’s a definite fat-elvis-in-a-leisure-suit vibe. And you can’t deny the appeal; Elvis’s desire for isolation and comfort led him to fried chicken and sedatives, but for the rest of us, the top of the line Chrysler was on hand to help meet the same need.
Inside, the overstuffed living room theme is on full display. The ’74-’78 C-bodies have a rather industrial looking dashboard. I find it hard to overlook, and despite plenty of equipment to keep occupants happy, the front vent windows are manually operated. Tisk tisk!
I’ve always enjoy the flush-mounted door releases Chrysler put in its cars and those fitted to 69-78 C-bodies are especially subtle.
Despite being cited as an example of plasticky cost-cutting, the Olds has a much nicer cabin. The designers actually bothered to shape the dashboard to break up the expanse of material facing front passengers, and the three spoke steering wheel is much more appropriate to a car of this stature.
Color obviously has a lot to do with how these interior designs come across, and the Olds’s green color scheme is, well, wonderful. That said, I have to give the Chrysler to nod when it comes to the door trim, with its greater area of upholstered surface. But the Ninety-Eight still wins, with a superior dashboard and nicer seating surfaces.
Loose-pillow seating is a ghastly concept for automotive use, but without the velour upholstery which came soon after this car rolled down the assembly line, the look still manages to be clean.
The Chrysler, made four years later, has very clean velour, but imagine how filthy it would seem with the dirt that would accumulate in normal use. All those buttons and folds make that an unpleasant proposition.
The big 440 (that’s 7.2 liter) four-barrel in the New Yorker is saddled with the Lean Burn system, famously controlled by Chrysler’s electronic engine management. I’ve never heard a single good thing about the system, but maybe when functioning properly, there’s something redeeming about it. I’m interested to know readers’ experiences.
The former owner of the Olds, however, took a different approach, jettisoning the original exhaust and fitting a new air cleaner; likely among other mods. The engine displacement is unlisted, so I’ll just assume it’s the 455. One of the most fun things about the biggest of the landyachts is the wide possibility of engine mods and all the support available. If you want a hot cam, and super high compression, you can have it and, with roughly 7.5 liters of displacement and generous sound insulation, still enjoy reasonable comfort and tractability in daily use. What’s not to like love?
The rear angle is the New Yorker Brougham’s best. The fender skirts work well here (too bad the cut-out is so obvious), and the bumper is a better fit than most others from the late ’70s.
As for the Olds, I always felt the 88 had a much smoother, more modern treatment than the Ninety-Eight, which looks–as a friend put it–like a soft-core Cadillac. The severe treatment doesn’t mesh well with all the tumblehome, but with that deep looking finish and dual exhaust, you can’t call it unattractive.
There are five days left to bid on these cars, both of which are hovering around $4200 at the moment I write this. The Chrysler has about 43,000 miles on it–20,000 more than the Olds–and after about four decades, that means that parts will need to be replaced soon after either car is put into regular use. But I don’t imagine anyone would want to use a big old sedan like this in such a manner. That, of course, is what’s ultimately so challenging: these are big, comfortable cruisers with modern conveniences and it’d be awfully tempting to waft alongside contemporary crossovers on a daily basis and show their drivers a thing or two about style.
The big issue with the Lean Burn was the place it was mounted. The heat and vibration caused it no end of issues. Had they mounted it on the firewall or on the fender or under the dash it would have been decent.
Yeah that had to be one of the most idiotic places to mount a computer ever. For what every reason Chrysler felt the need to air cool their engine computers and continued with having them in the air intake tract for decades though they did eventually move them to the inner fender where they didn’t get the engine vibration but were still subject to the radiant heat. Putting them under the dashboard like everyone else did in the era made so much more sense.
I like both cars in different ways. They’re both good looking cars. Both have luxurious interiors, comfortable seats. What I like most about the Chrysler Imperial is the instrument cluster. While the Oldsmobile 98 has warning lights to let people know what the engine is doing, the Imperial uses proper needle gauges.
Not just gauges, but each gauge also had an LED which would glow red and draw your attention if the gauge got into a trouble zone (high temp, low charge or low fuel). At one time or another, I tested all three of those LEDs on my 77 NYB.
Plus the optional Fuel Pacer which lit up the drivers side turn signal when you went heavy on the right pedal.
The problem with warning lights is that they got your attention only when your car is already in trouble. The proper gauge, if one were actually paying attention, let’s you know what’s going on while you’re driving. The problem with GM cars is that they only used warning lights, they didn’t have actual gauges.
Eh, yes and no, Chevrolet did offer the option to get a temperature and fuel economy gauge through 1976 and on the 1977 and up cars too, Pontiac still listed an optional full gauge package on it’s full size cars from 1971-1976 and it continued to offer one on the downsized big cars after 1977. Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac didn’t have any at all from 1971-1976, though Oldsmobile did offer an optional cluster on the 1977 and up full size cars.
It’s nice to know that the Chrysler gauges had warning lights too. Frankly, I’ve always thought it was pretty dumb to not integrate a warning light with every gauge, which was certainly not the case with the overwhelming majority of cars with gauges. Let’s face it: most typical drivers didn’t keep on eye on them. IF oil pressure suddenly dropped, would your wife notice it?? Or the engine started getting hot? Either-or is a bad compromise; it should have always been both, at least if there was a gauge.
I’ll take the OldsmobileThe lean burn problems and Chrysler’s good one/bad one build quality make me choose the Olds.It looks a lot like the Regency 98 Yorkshire heavy metal band Saxon used to turn up for concerts in in the early 80s when I was seriously into the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.
I heard that by the 1970s, quality controls for both cars were iffy at best.
Uh-huh Jason.
Reallly realllllllllly bad – for most everything coming out of Detroit (and Kenosha).
IDK how long ChryCo did it…but under the vinyl top, you’d find…nakedness.
As in bare metal. Not even in primer. NAKED.
I remember seeing Mopars rusting on the showroom floor around the vinyl roofline.
At least GM painted all the sheetmetal before applying the vinyl froo-froo but that didn’t make up for the otherwise abysmal build quality. Much of the hatred for American iron in general – and GM (who held over half the market thru the 70’s) in particular – developed in this era. The 80’s were only the frosting on that cake.
Thing is…if either company had put the same attention into the rest of the car that they put into their engines and transmissions (emissions controls aside)…today’s auto landscape might well be much more domestic, as the 70’s were also the beginnings of drivetrains capable of 150K and better if properly maintained.
Perhaps I should’ve said that quality control on all cars built in the USA during the 1970s were iffy, in some cases, almost non-existent. It’s a wonder any of the companies are still around today.
I’ll still take the Olds(and some money for a taxi just in case!)
I like both of these. I’ve always thought the Oldsmobile C bodies of this era were sleeker than the more rounded Cadillacs and Buicks. I’d prefer that this car was a 71 with the less obtrusive bumper in front. I also think that there have been things done to this particular example — the dual exhausts don’t look stock, nor does its stance — the rear end seems to sit a bit high. For these reasons, I’d have to take the New Yorker which appears to be completely stock. I don’t think, however, that you could go wrong with either one!
I prefer the 98, but lose the duals hanging below the bumper. Those chrome extensions are definitely not stock!
Those tail pipes have been dragging on the ground the RH side is worn away, I’d prefer the Chrysler though experience with Aussie lean burn systems is off putting, at least with those you could retro fit earlier ignition/ caburettor etc and do away with it.
I’m a GM guy through and through, but if it was between both those exact cars as represented, I would go with the New Yorker, it has the look of a well cared for stock old car, the Ninety Eight is a hodgepodge of aftermarket crap, really??? That air cleaner on an Oldsmobile 98? WTF do you think this is? Some 2nd gen Camaro looking for the next liquor store to rob?
Nice aftermarket intake and EDELBROCK FYEAH!!! carb. PASSSSSS.
Know whats missing? Calvin peeing on a Mercury logo on the rear window.
And some amps…..it needs some kicking amps.
Put down the meth and JEGS catalog and have some freaking taste.
Also, where the hell is the air conditioning compressor??
Not to mention the circa 1977-1985 Oldsmobile wires do not belong on this car and it doesn’t even have cornering lamps.
I give this 98 a D- in my old car preference guide, while the New Yorker gets a B, plus I had one of these New Yorkers and I did like them.
Well, at least the original hubcaps are in the trunk.
Doesn’t matter, everything else has been tampered with. These cars aren’t expensive enough or rare enough that you wouldn’t be able to hold out for a proper unmolested one with the right equipment to come along in the next couple of weeks, the more I look at that 98, the more of a pig it is.
Props for the astute owner demographic analysis! 🙂
Carmine, why are you not a part of The Brougham Society? I think you would enjoy it 🙂
Yes the stance at front and rear on the olds is too high.
I had a ’76 400c.i. Newport with lean burn and when taking off it was like you had a 170 six in it till about 30mph then it would kick in and roar off, it made you hate to slow down. Couldn’t wait to sell the car and get anything else.
I don’t think your 74 had Lean Burn, as that system did not come out until 1976.
Ah, memory, I used to have one but forgot where I put it. Not to sure about the year but know for sure it was lean-burn as I talked to many mechanics about it and nobody had any solution except to change it for an after market carb. It did give the car good gas mileage (18-19mpg iirc) for a big car.
The Olds like most Olds is the ugliest of the GM C’s and that interior is just terrible particularly the green color.
The Imperial is a good looking car and the interior looks like it belongs in an expensive car unlike the bargain basement look of the Olds. The light blue with the double white exterior is a great combo. The problem with the Imperial is that boat anchor 440, I’ve got no love for a valve burning, water pump eating engine with a starter that sounds like it is about to self destruct. The Lean Burn system is the least of its problems.
If the only choice of a car to drive was those two I’d have to go with the Imperial though since it looks a million times better inside and out and I’d feel like I was driving a premium car. However for a full size car of this era an Electra of Continental would be the hands down choices.
> The problem with the Imperial is that boat anchor 440, I’ve got no love for a valve burning, water pump eating engine with a starter that sounds like it is about to self destruct.
Huh, what? This engine will have 452 casting heads that come standard with hardened valve seat inserts to deal with the unleaded gas. I’ve never heard of a particular problem with Mopar big block water pumps, and certainly none in my experience. The Mopar starter sounds like beautiful music. You must be tone deaf. 😉
I sent a fair number of these monsters to the scrap yard. The customer would come in complaining of a miss and that miss turned out to be burnt valves. It wasn’t a problem with the seat it was the valve. I could not in good conscious recommend to the customer that they fix it unless the car was pristine since the cost to properly repair it would have exceeded the value of the vehicle.
Despite the fact that the 440 was not that common I sure did a fair number of water pumps on them back in the day.
I think that JP may have nailed the “burned valves” issue in his comment below: Lean Burn. Did you find these problems on pre-Lean Burn engines as well?
Cooling system in the 440 was no different than any other Mopar big block. Were people not taking care of them?
On that note, I had to change the (20 year old) water pump in my Cummins just last night. I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was no gunk inside whatsoever when I pulled it out. I don’t do “flushes” but replace my antifreeze every 2 years.
Yes I saw it on the pre lean burn ones too.
Agree on tone deaf….as well as 440
Misinformed.
The reality about the starter is that if Chrysler would have spent a few cents more on precision machining of the gears in the starter they wouldn’t whine like they do. There are many modern cars that have gear reduction starters and since they used quality gears they don’t whine.
It would be interesting to see if there are any takers in gear sets for Chrysler starters that don’t whine. I do understand that a lot of the Chrysler faithful consider that whine endearing so I’d probably go broke getting them made.
Well, I think they’re both pretty awful but I’d take the Chrysler first. If I kept my senses of humor and irony while driving it, could be a fun ride.
Maybe get myself a leopard print suit and a purple hat with a feather in it.
Also, my parents could borrow it once in a while. Perfect for 70-somethings to make the annual cruise to Myrtle Beach.
I’d be taking….the bus home. Seriously; who designed those interiors; Hugh Hefner’s poodles?
Minor nit, that New Yorker appears to be a 78, not a 77. The grille texture is the giveaway, as is the tufted pillow seats. Also, I believe this color to be dove gray and not white – I have never seen one of that color paired with that light blue interior, which is a little odd.
I have owned a 77 NYB and have driven several GM C bodies of that 71-76 era. The big tie-breaker is how stiff do you need a car’s structure to be. The Chrysler 4 door hardtop is rigid as can be (the 4 door sedans of this era do not seem to share this trait) while the GM C body is fairly willowy, and will visibly shudder over rough pavement.
The Lean Burn is indeed trouble. They were known for not being all that reliable, and would also tend to burn valves (as mine did) due to the extra lean fuel mixture. When it was working right, they would drive nicely. Also, it is fairly easy to bypass the system these days.
The GM cars also cheaped out on dash pads and door panels that were prone to cracking. The switches and knobs were not that great feeling, either. Still, the Chrysler would show Mopar maladies like commonly squeaking door hinges, slightly hollow sounding doors (though not as bad as other models) and little electrical/electromechanical gremlins like the headlight covers that would freeze or short out. The GM cars were also smoother with more road isolation – Chrysler was still using big old leaf springs on these.
I would take the Chrysler (which should surprise nobody here). I value the tight structure, and these are drop-dead gorgeous cars (though I would prefer a different color combo). I know that it would take more sorting out than the Olds, but when one of these is right, it scratches all of my itches.
It was easy to replace the lean burn system when it was new, just head to your local participating Direct Connection dealer and pickup the electronic ignition kit that cam with a new distributor and everything needed but a chunk of sheet metal to block the hole in the air cleaner where the lean burn system was attached. Even with that you’d still need to do a valve job before it got that old.
I had a 77 Newport Custom for a short while. It got the old 74-75 New Yorker Grill, taillights and Interior. Was very Comfy but not quite as decadent as this one. It handled great and got around 18 or so highway. It had the 400. Great MPG’s for a huge car and far better than the 73 Impala with a 350 I had not long before. The lean burn was a problem though, seemed like it would stick in the highway mode at times when you were cruising around town. I was going to swap it out for a normal distributor but ended up trading it on a Dodge Omni since I was driving about 60 miles a day.
Given the question above I to would go with the New Yorker, just love that look for some reason.
I know exactly the Newport Custom you refer to. My best friend’s dad bought a 77 4 door hardtop – dark metallic brown with no vinyl roof but with fender skirts. Beautiful car, and it was a very good one for him, which he kept longer than most.
Did your Newport Custom have the brocade upholstery? Chrysler interior excess at its finest. I’ve always had a soft spot for the 76-78 New Yorker Brougham, and the last Imperials that spawned it. Unlike the lesser Mopar C bodies of that era, these feel less like echoes of early 70s GM designs, and the 5 mph bumper integration, as noted above, is probably the best of any 70s design.
Mine was yellow with the tan vinyl roof and vinyl twin comfort seats. It also had fenderskirts and the Premier Wheel Covers. Never cared to much for the color of the car and the fact it was a Sedan still not a bad looking car. Had it been a Hardtop and in a better color I probably would have kept in longer. Had it less than a year. Did use it a few times to carry all my friends around in, and they were kind of upset when I sold it. I eventually got about 4 months later a 77 Town Car. That kind of made up for the loss of the Chrysler. I remember passing a house on my way to work at that time that had a 74 Dark Green Imperial under the carport along with a 75 or 76 Fleetwood neither car ever seemed to move. Really should have asked about the Imperial. I always loved the look of them.
Definitely Dove Gray – a color I really liked. And, I would agree that this blue interior was not terribly common. The pin stripe matches the interior. This blue shade is a bit funky and I thinks makes the interior look lower in quality.
The darkish red interior and pin stripe was much more common with the Dove Gray – a combo that looked much better.
I have very little wheel time in one of these New Yorkers, and tons behind the GM C body. It would be interesting to contrast the stiffness of the body. I was pretty satisfied with my Super B / Baby C ’73 Pontiac GrandVille four door hardtop.
A memory…
I drove a ’72 Olds 98 extensively in college. Back when gas first hit $1.00 a gallon.
That was a lot. It killed me to put $5 in, and not see the needle move up, but
the needle sure went down fast on a trip around the Baltimore Beltway!
with the 455, on a straight ahead, nothing could out strip the car’s acceleration.
Don’t try to corner, however. The hardtop was nice — we moved a huge
carpet from the college’s dining hall to a new location. roll it up, stick the front
end on the dash, the other end barely protruded out the rear window of the other side.
Don’t know if I’d want to go back to that car for more than a single ride, ‘tho.
And even tho’ I’ve continuously owned ‘A’-body mopars for years, I’d stay away
from that New Yorker. It’s a pastiche of Lincoln and Caddy themes without a soul
of its own. Yeech!
I had my 77 NYB in law school. It had been originally ordered with heavy duty suspension and was equipped with fat 70 series rubber. That was the best handling and flattest cornering big car I ever drove. While I owned that New Yorker, family members got an 84 Continental with air suspension and an 85 Crown Vic, both of which scared me by how soft, floaty and uncontrolled they were compared to the car I was used to.
I agree that Chrysler phoned-in that dashboard design, but I’d certainly take it over the Olds.
Both cars have attractive dashboards and instrument panels but the Chryslers have more functional instruments you can actually read, without relying heavily on warning lights. I like that.
Look at the speedometer on the New Yorker – the distance between 50 and 80, the peak range, must be about 5 inches and waaaay to the right on the dial, like you’ve really accomplished something getting the needle all the way over there. On a modern speedo its less than an inch and to the left center like your not even trying. The modern 0-160 mph speedometer drives me crazy.
Agreed.
I wasn’t knocking the Chrysler dash functionally, but aesthetically. Everything is a plain rectangular black box in a sea of simulated woodgrain. No interesting shapes, no chrome bezels. The dash is functional, but looks like it belongs in a Plymouth.
Both cars have thin silvery brightwork around the edges of the faux wood trim which serves to emphasize the fake look of the wood.
It not only looks like it belongs in a Plymouth, but it was in the Plymouth and the Dodge of the 74-78 C bodies. They all had basically the same functional but dull dashboard.
Both cars are fantastic, I would take either one.
My parents had a 98 similar to the one featured here. I can tell you that build quality was not good; body integrity was especially poor: rattled like a washing machine on intense wash cycle with a bucket of bolts in the tub. Cadillacs were much more solid feeling in spite of sharing basically the same body shell.
The dash on the 98 was not nice to live with either. Passengers could not reach the AC controls, and the quality of the plastics used screamed “CHEAP”. Pity, too, because some versions of these, the ones without the loose cushion look, could otherwise appear quite classy looking.
The Chrysler: Pity here too, because while the gauges may have included some interesting features, the overall look is as though some poor little old lady from Pasadina is now missing the instrument panel of her Valiant. The long, sweepy look is a nice idea, but overwrought. There is something a little bit too “anatomical-looking” about the tail lamp treatment. The seats are just ghastly-looking. Perhaps this is due largly to the color; I can imagine, if i squint, their looking nicer in a darker color. I don’t know about the body integrity of these Chryslers, but generally, GMs are usually (gulp, gasp) BETTER in this regard. Imagine! Of course, Chrysler’s lean burn makes a Mopar choice from this era a complete non-runner, literally.
I am old enough to be able to say that, among people of more refined tastes, both cars were considered good choices, maybe, for retiring factory workers.
If I were forced to choose between these two, the 98 would get the nod simply because it is the one that runs.
Imagine the expensive dissapointment that would haunt a real retiring factory worker back in 1977 who, after working and sacrificing for retirement, including the chance to buy a nice car as his, or her, last car, only to have chosen this Mopar. My heart goes out to people who make what seem to be sound choices (Mopars were good before the mid-70s) only to find that they have made an expensive mistake that they simply cannot afford.
To me, this is a major part of the sad reality behind automobiles of this era.
Malaise, indeed!
The fact that the passengers could not reach the HVAC controls was one of the few good things about that dash.
> some poor little old lady from Pasadina is now missing the instrument panel of her Valiant.
+1
I commented above that the dashboard looks like it belongs in a Plymouth before scrolling down to see your comment.
This era of poor dash style ran from the late sixties to the early ninties.
As much as I like the lines and styling of the Chrysler, I’d choose GM each and every time.
Chrysler was rapidly going belly-up in those days, and it showed in their quality, not to say GM and Ford were much better.
Bad old days, no matter what kind of car it was. Our 1976 well-used Gremlin, however, was fun.
Have to agree. If someone else were paying and performing the maintenance to keep it running, the Chrysler would be the choice. But if it was my money and effort to keep it going, well, you have to go with GM from that time period. It’s a shame, too, because the New Yorker is a nicer looking car.
The Chrysler, hands down. The Olds cannot hold a torch to it.
I’m torn. Two of my favorite big cars from the era.
I grew up an Olds fan, and the Olds products were simply better sorted out in this era compared with the typical Mopar. Olds was typically the best of the GM C bodies, IMHO.
The New Yorker is the personification of the American luxury car profile. And, this iteration got all the details right – but I’ll take a pass on that interior color.
So, the compromise would be to own one car for a few years and trade it for the other.
I grew up with General Motors cars. My grandparents drove Buicks and Chevys. I also grew up with Toyotas. But I also like American cars like the Oldsmobile and Buicks. That makes it difficult for me to choose a favourite among cars.
While I like the body styling and general workmanship of the Olds 98, I prefer the mechanics of the Chrysler NYB, and the proper use of gauges of the instrument cluster.
Let me take a guess here based on the retouched photos. The guy selling them is out of Lakeland, FL? Am I right as I know I am right. Take my word the cars don’t look that good in person as this seller has a poor rep in the area and is well known for blowing his photos out with tinting and spraying wet look over the engine compartment. Also well known for pulling auctions at the last minute reserve or not. Plus, bidders are kept private the whole time leaving the true outcome up in the air and shilling a strong possibility.
As for the cars I would take the Olds. I’d stay away from Lean Burn, unless bypassed, and then there is that AutoTemp II disaster in the dash of the New Yorker.
I’d take the New Yorker even though I’m an Olds man.
The Chrysler is drop dead gorgeous.
Almost won one on ebay a few years back, but lost the auction in the last seconds due to a lousy dial up connection.
Also think tbm3fan is right about the seller.
Whatever ticky-tacky the Olds has is after market and can be redressed. It is an inherently handsome car. The New Yorker was conceived in ticky-tacky… there’s not enough irony in my entire being, or white patent leather in my wardrobe, to be seen driving it.
I find the New Yorker more interesting not having been exposed to Chrysler products from this era. Leather would make it even more interesting as Chrysler’s leather seemed nicer than the rest of that era. I find the Oldsmobile handsome and if it was my car those rear pipes would come off as would that aftermarket breather and incorrect wheel covers. I have no brand allegiance when it comes to special interest cars as I believe that would limit my exposure to different cars. It is because of my parents and grandparents brand allegiance that I missed exposure to different cars when growing up.
The Olds is nice, to be sure. It’s an attractive car, I love the exterior color combo, and the interior has its pluses. The fact that it’s had some modifications done doesn’t bother mas much as some here, though the stance/exhaust tips are pretty glaring and if the a/c has been deleted, that’s just unforgiveable.
However, I love these Chryslers. The styling hits the late 70’s mark just right, and in my opinion stands up to Cadillac and Lincoln without being at all derivative. The full complement of gauges are great too (though the flat dash is a little odd) and the door panels look fantastic. That interior color, though…yuck. I could learn to live with it, but light blue is not a good color for much of anything, let alone a New Yorker Brougham interior. With that pale gray exterior, give me burgundy leather! Lean-Burn would be summarily disconnected and I wouldn’t be opposed to more engine tweaks to re-discover an acceptable level of power from the 440.
Yes, the A/C compressor being removed is a shame, especially given the fact the Oldsmobile has the rare automatically controlled system. In fact someone just went stupid under the hood of this car spraying that shinny used car dealer stuff on everything. It gave the entire engine compartment a low rent look. Some things on cars are NOT meant to be shinny; leather, tires, interior plastics, most things found under the hood, etc.
Is the Chrysler AutoTemp the same horrible system that Mercedes Benz bought from Chrysler and used in a lot of their US-market cars in the 80s? The same system that never wants to work right? Every W126 or 107 body Mercedes I’ve ever had experienced issues with the HVAC controls…why they couldn’t just stick with the manual system they used in other markets is a mystery to me. Or if they had to buy HVAC parts from someone, why Chrysler of all people?!?
By the way, I like both cars…I’d take either one of them. It seems to me leather was not a common seating choice at that time, in domestic luxury cars…mousefur seemed to be the norm. I’m not a fan of leather, give me fluffy velour any time.
Evidently the Europeans bought HVAC systems from American manufacturers because they thought we knew how to make good cold A/C, I can only assume. We had an Audi 5000 with, of all things, a GM-sourced Delco climate control head unit, from what we were told the same one used in Eldorados and Rivieras. It failed after less than 10 years, requiring a very expensive replacement. Good job GM and good job Audi there.
So your saying it was basically the most reliable part of the car? It had to be pretty much the only thing on the 5000 that almost made it to 10 years? Not bad, it probably could have still been transferred to another 5000 after the first one was parted out, if there still were any running 5000’s
They did buy a/c systems from us, because theirs were so laughably bad and inefficient at cooling that they made a Turkish Bath seem cool and refreshing.
Agreed. Major AC components that went 10 years in the ’70s and ’80s were terrific performers by any standard.
And, you could review any copy of Consumer Reports from about 1965 through 1985 and see many very positive reviews on U.S. domestic AC systems, and absolutely awful reviews on European and Japanese systems.
Not just AC. One of my high school buddies got an ’85 Celica coupe – this was in Pittsburgh, where Japanese cars weren’t that common, or welcome. We’re out driving one cool night and the windshield fogs up. He turns on the defroster – and nothing happens. There might of been strange grey gunk dripping from the B-pillar shoulder belt anchors on the 78 Estate Wagon I’d inherited, but at least the HVAC system worked!
The A/C systems on my ’87 Crown Victoria, ’87 Brougham, and ’77 Electra 225 were/are all working fine, still running R-12 and never been recharged. Oddly it’s the ’93 Fleetwood that needs a recharge or conversion.
LOL. That car was such a mixed bag–the electrics were uniformly terrible, except for the power seats. Plus the steering rack was on the way out. But the engine and gearbox held up pretty well–still ran great with something like 120K miles on it when we finally got rid of it in ’98. The body was straight without a speck of rust and the paint still held a nice shine, and the interior was still in nice shape.
Those electrical gremlins though. Wow. Numerous and uniformly expensive.
I spent time reading the offerings on imperialclub.com some years ago. (Great website for Imperial fans).
There is a lot of discussion on AutoTemp and AutoTemp II. AutoTemp came out in ’67, and was standard on the ’68 Imperial – which meant that no ’68 Imperials had working climate control.
A revised, but still buggy, system came out after a few years and was named II in an effort to publicize the updates.
Apparently there was a major component shared with Mercedes that was the major problem in AutoTemp II.
The link shows the modern replacement part. I believe it replaced some plastic part with aluminum and makes the system reliable.
http://www.imperialclub.com/Part/Vendors/performancebrochure.pdf
When I peek into a big GM from this era, I’m always surprised at how low the seats seem to be. Meanwhile, the ghost of K.T. Keller was still afoot in Highland Park. Or maybe it’s something of an illusion. Happy to borrow the 98 to make sure.
Olds!
Wow, I am SHOCKED at the mostly negative feedback on these!! I normally shit on cars like this pretty hard, too, but I actually like both of these quite a bit. I think there may be something of a “you had to be there” thing going on, because “Lean Burn” doesn’t automatically make me recoil in horror and I never would have realized the wheel covers on the Olds are from a later car, as CARMINE pointed out.
The New Yorker is one of the few dreadnought class Broughams I have legit appreciation for. I know we have lots of ’70s Town Car fans on here, which I also like – or I can stomach, anyway – but I think Chrysler pulled off its similar front-end treatment even better. Some of the details recall the early 60s Detroit luxury fullsizers which I prefer so much more as a reference point than the neo-classical garbage that they probably intended this to look like. The number “440” also hearkens back to a better time for American cars, and I’m willing to put my hands over my ears and pretend there’s no such thing as Lean Burn. I prefer the interior on these without the pillow tufts, but light blue makes a very nice match with the exterior. The dashboard may be short on style and perhaps a little cheap looking for such a car, but I like the layout and all the information available to the driver.
But I think I’d actually prefer the Olds in this case. The color is what sells me on it – I’ve always had a thing for green cars and this shade is just incredible. I’m guessing it’s not factory, though? The interior actually would have looked horrible when new, but now it’s period-piece awesomeness… love how it looks with all the fake wood. These pillow seats are also slightly less gross than the ones in the Chrysler. I might actually keep the fake wires if I had it, even if they’re not correct they look pretty good – and I normally hate these things, too. I’ll have to take a look at a ’73 Olds catalog and see what the factory options were; maybe I’d like them better. The engine mods don’t really scare me off, although that air cleaner has got to go. This car has obviously been lovingly maintained, and it’s not like these things can’t take that kind of hoonery.
These type of cars set up like this – well optioned, interesting colors – are really the only 70s barges I can get into. They look like the cars you’d see in a factory brochure, but never on the streets.
That dark green is factory – and matched the Olds interior. The odd shades of green you see are fading problems probably combined with some digital camera funky.
The same dark green was also available on the New Yorker. One of my favorite combos was white vinyl over the dark green, white pin strip and dark green interior – in leather.
GM offered wheel wire covers with varying success at all five divisions, starting at least by the early / mid ’60s. I’m pretty sure I’ve even seen manufacturer ads for the GMC Caballero wearing wires, so maybe six divisions. Wires may not have been offered on the ’73 Ninety-Eight, or at least were quite rare. These covers look the ’77 – ’85 versions that were extremely popular. I had these same covers on my ’82 Olds 88. It’s not uncommon so see these covers pop up on the older cars – it happens so much that I’ve actually grown used to the look.
I almost always like green with white. If you’ve got to have a vinyl top, that’s one of the best combos, I think.
Funny thing about the wires is, I usually hate how they look on the ’77+ cars, but somehow they look appropriate to me here. I checked the ’73 brochure (isn’t oldcarbrochures.com a great site? Wish they had Japanese and European cars on there too) and it looks like the only thing available on the 98 were those big “disc” type wheel covers that were so common back then. I’m not the biggest fan of those, and I can’t imagine this car would look good with the Olds’ Rallye wheels that I like so much. I agree with what Don Andreina said below – I’m not a purist, just don’t make it look silly. CARMINE’s assessment is hilarious, though!
All things being equal, I like the look of the Olds better, but the Chrylser does look better maintained, and I already have a garage full of Mopar parts.
As far as iffy quality control, my assumption is that if a not very collectible car has lasted 40 years without getting junked, it’s probably one of the good ones.
New Yorker all the way. Why? Because I live in a area of NM with no emissions inspection and I can rip all the smog crap off of it and have a blast, even softened Torsion Bars corner flatter than the Olds, and I love those hidden headlights.
Now if you made me choose from GM C-bodys, it would be Oldsmobile all the way.
+1 Dan, similar scenario for me too, with one caveat. The New Yorker I would want in a different colour scheme, while the Olds colours are perfect !
I’ll take the Olds. It’s better-looking (better colors, especially) and I’m not put off by the engine mods and the dual exhaust. The sound of an Olds 455 through duals is a good thing.
Olds for me despite Carmine’s trusted appraisal. This series of GM is my favourite (up to 1973 and not including Pontiac). Like the Buick stripper in that earlier article, I’m not so concerned about originality or spec as long as it doesn’t look out of place. This series of bodies is one of the US’s peak styling periods and it kills me that these are so cheap in the US. By the time these make it over to oz the asking is about $20k, although you can negotiate down. But very few of these make it over, its primarily luxo, muscle or pony up to 1970 that people bring in. Nice article Perry, I’m definitely one of the GM 71 – 73 fans.
I’m a lifelong Mopar guy, so the big N Y’er is the natural choice for me. I had a ’76 Newport Custom for a few years and loved it. Shoulda kept it. The Lean-Burn is easily dealt with- replace it with an earlier vacuum-advance electronic ignition and an earlier-spec Thermoquad. Done.
That’s not to say I don’t appreciate the Olds, too. If I had a hankering for a GM product, the big cruisers from ’71-76 would be high on my shopping list. True, they don’t have the build quality of the previous generation or the fine engineering of the next generation; but they’ve sure got style.
It’s the way the Olds has been defiled that gets my dander up. Where the hell is the A/C compressor?! If you’re too stupid or lazy to fix the A/C, at least leave the system intact for the next owner. I have 4 vehicles- the newest being a 1991- and three of them have A/C. Even my ’65 Valiant has air, a “period” looking aftermarket unit under the dash. Here in the Midwest, it’s like living in a hobo’s armpit from May through October. Except August, when on have to move to his buttcrack.
I agree 100% with Carmine’s analysis on the awful mods done to that particular Olds.
Neither of these are my favorite big 70s cars, but left with no other choice I suspect I might take the Olds and remove the mods, simply because I suspect GM parts are cheaper and easier to come by so it’d be easier to keep the car on the road.
I’m not a big fan of modifications to any car unless it’s to improve the performance and safety of a car. My least favourite mod has always been those shiny aftermarket wheels you see on some cars. They look tacky, to be putting it mildly.
Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. I especially like the 1975 version of this car.
I always loved the overstuffed velour of the 70’s and 80’s. Though I think leather is truly luxurious there is nothing like the velour and soft cloth of brougham type vehicles from these two decades. Not sure why some folks have pure hatred for the button-tufted velour. It is truly one of the best things about cars from decades past.
Sorry, I totally disagree regarding the interiors. They Chrysler’s interior was better-looking – and better finished.
Neither car!!
Nothing is better than a Mercury Marquis in this bracket.
Always classy, always desirable, always nice to have in your driveway for the neighbors to see!!
Perry, At least one could get vent windows on a ’74 – ’78 big RWD Mopar, manual or not. Nobody else offered them. I think it unfair to criticize Chrysler for the fact that their optional vent windows are manual, and not electric.
And, while I have never sat in either of these year cars, I like the Chrysler’s better. Oh, does the Olds offer a recliner on the passenger side? Just curious.
My choice is the N Y Brougham, despite the wretched “lean-burn”.