In a world where manuals are a dying breed, so called “semi-automatic” transmissions have long become most automakers’ popular alternatives or even replacements for manuals. Often better known by various automaker branding such as Steptronic, Geartronic, or Sportronic, these transmissions seek to offer the best of both worlds by giving drivers the ability to “shift-it-yourself” without a clutch pedal, either through the gearshift selector itself, or more recently, steering wheel mounted paddle shifters. But are these really proper substitutes for true manual transmissions? The general opinion, one that I personally share, is “no”.
I for one, have always owned automatics, and find them best suited for my needs in a daily driver. Living in the greater Boston area often entails horrendous traffic, and chronic achilles tendonitis from years of long-distance running, a sport which I continue to take part in, makes driving manual downright painful sometimes. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy driving manual every now and then, and it would be the only choice in transmission if I ever bought a fun weekend driver.
The first car I ever experienced paddle shifters in was my uncle’s Mk5 VW GTI. I remember him excitedly talking about them when he took delivery, and showing me how to use them when he took me out driving shortly after I got my learners permit. I never really warmed up to them and now a decade later, the last three of my cars all having paddle shifters, they are still something I could care less about. I’ve tried them a few times on occasion, but if I’m ever going to shift myself in an automatic semi-automatic, I prefer the gearshift, which in itself is a very rare occasion.
For me, there isn’t really any gray space in the middle. I’ll either drive fully automatic or fully manual. From my experience, I’ve found most people are the same way. But I am curious to know if there is anyone out there who does use their paddle shifters. Does anyone even prefer them?
I very occasionally Autostick (Isn’t that somebody’s trademark?). But with the actual Auto Stick. The shift lever. Even if it’s only slapping it side-to-side.
Paddles seem so…sissy.
I always use such transmissions in auto, but stick slapping seems asinine. If it’s not a real shifter it may as well be up at the wheel.
There are situations that the autostick is not only useful but needed.
I had a 2006 Sonata with an autostick
The transmission was set up as P R N D. You pulled the shifter down past the D and to the side.
I used it for snow covered roads where I found it advantageous to keep the car in 1st or 2nd (especially leaving a stop) because it kept the speed low.
Yeah but whether you were using a console lever or paddles or a column shifter doesn’t alter the way you’re using it necessarily.
G. Poon objects to paddles because they’re paddles, not because they’re controls on a semi-automatic transmission.
Is that why they use them on the fastest racing cars?
The paddles on my GTI with DSG were fun, if not necessary. Why take one hand off the wheel to shove a lever forward or back. That won’t have the rewarding snick-snick feel of a real manual, or provide the whole-body stimulation of working the clutch pedal, too. In the right car on the right road, I’ll prefer that. But this is obviously the most effective way to shift a transmission.
Hate ’em. I just can’t come up with any situation in which they’re superior to either regular automatic operation of the transmission or an “old fashioned” stick shift with *gasp* a clutch.
The only remotely plausible reason to use either paddle shifters (or in the case of a recent daily driver the “auto-stick” feature) might be for purposes of traction in slick conditions. Unfortunately even under those circumstances the semi-auto fairs poorly in comparison to an old-school standard transmission, as the shifts, once paddled or auto-sticked into the next gear, are too abrupt, resulting in a loss of the traction you’re trying to gain to begin with. I just see these things as gimmicky Tom-foolery, and at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist when I really don’t have enough knowledge to substantiate my suspicions, I always feel like it’s a safer bet for the long-term health of the transmission not to mess with its “natural” shifting points and patterns.
To each his own, but they’re not for me.
I own three cars with paddle shifters: a Ferrari 458 Spider and two Mercedes-AMG GTs. I don’t use the paddles on any of them. First, if I’m going to shift, I want a clutch pedal. Second, the only rationale for paddle-shifted transmissions is that they can shift automatically by computer faster than a human can accomplish the task. Given that, why would I think I could beat the computer? If my cars had been available with a stick shift, I certainly would have chosen one.
The paddle is a selector. The shift speed is the same whether you order the shift or the ECM orders the shift, so you can’t “beat” it with the paddle.
Unless you have a vehicle with GPS mapping like a truck with a Detroit DT12 drivetrain, you know more about the road ahead than the vehicle knows. Also, your priorities may be different than the default priorities of the ECM programming (the car may be shifting for noise, or durability, or fuel economy). Your decision probably is wrong, because people mostly are gullible, emotional, dim-witted sacks of meat, but it’s possible you’re right.
We are so dumb, yet we invented the computer and told it how to preform.
That goes back at least to the invention of mechanical clocks 700 years ago. People invented clocks, yet clocks are better at the actual task of keeping time because of some differences between machines and people.
If a computer weren’t actually better at the jobs it does (faster/cheaper/more accurate/more consistent), it would be really silly to bother with it.
Agree with Brendan on this one. Last three cars had paddles… never used them. I think it’s a combination of efficient modern automatics, having enough torque, and enough driving in urban/suburban situations. Our Jetta tdi had the dsg transmission, and the wife deeply disliked how it drove. The Camry’s more to her liking, and with a big V8 on the Charger, I can’t imagine a manual being any more enjoyable to drive.
I really like the paddle shifters in our Honda side by side. There is no option for letting the transmition shift it self so they are designed to be used all the time and stay in place when the steering wheel moves. I could see this being a good system on a weekend car too but maybe not for a daily driver. I’ve never driven a road vehilce with paddle shifters but our superduty has the option to select gears manually or limit the gears it will operate in which is very nice for towing. Over all I like the systems that let you change gears in automatics
I get the impression that paddle shifters were only introduced to make drivers of enthusiast cars not feel self conscious as a driver for buying an automatic and possibly even not knowing how to operate a manual transmission at all. Yes, yes, F1. Sorry to burst the bubble of the defenders of paddle shifters, but F1 cars are significantly faster than even the fastest production cars with paddle shifters, that’s why they use them and street cars traditionally got by with true stickshifts or automatics. It’s a gimmick in anything on public roads.
So no, I don’t use them when I encounter them, automatics shift faster than I can and generally at scientifically better points to boot. That’s the point. Manual transmissions have mechanical feedback through the shifter and clutch that you don’t get through a few plastic paddles connected to electric momentary switches. It feels like playing a video game with paddle shifters, because they use the same technology to interface to your hands. I am an all or nothing type person, no compromises or hybridizations.
Shift paddles started in F1 because they eliminate the packaging problem of a clutch pedal and gear linkage. That’s only a potential showstopping problem for single seat race cars.
By rule, F1 cars aren’t allowed automatic gear changing (since the early 2000s), for the same reason that they aren’t allowed ABS, traction control, or adjustments not made by the driver from GPS or direct pit commands.
If paddles weren’t allowed, they’d have clutch pedals or levers and mechanical linkage, and the show would go on.
The only reason for anything in F1 is to make the cars faster. Same with paddle shifting: it made the shifts faster, so the driver does not have to lift off the throttle while changing gears. They also allow the driver to keep both hands on the wheel while shifting, which improves control. Packaging in the footbox might have been a side benefit, but it wasn’t the reason. The clutch is also still there, operated by a separate paddle behind the wheel, and used only when the car is stopped.
Packaging is the *only* reason that paddle shifting was introduced to F1. John Barnard was on a quest to make the tightest possible monocoque. He replaced the clutch pedal with a button to make the footbox smaller.
Any improvement since then in shift speed through automation has been a bonus. If the shifts were the same speed, it would still be paddle shifted, because the monocoque can be tighter and it doesn’t need space or holes for mechanical linkage. If paddle shifts (or a three on the tree column shifter) were fractionally slower, the aerodynamic improvement might still be worthwhile.
Packaging is especially important in F1, because much of the shape of the car is directly dictated by the size and location of the components. In F1, bigger components usually have a direct negative impact on aerodynamics. In series with larger cars, such as Cup and WEC, there usually isn’t a direct negative impact on aerodynamics if the transmission or oil tank is a little bigger.
So, all those explanations I have read in the past were way off, and your understanding was closer. In this podcast from just last month, John Barnard explains that the motivation was simply to get rid of the long and complicated mechanical shift linkage, and replace it with a button on the steering wheel. Then he realized that they could automate the clutch and shift action together. Later in the interview he notes that eliminating the shifter and linkage allowed the monocoque to be narrower, so they could not have a mechanical linkage as a backup should the electronics fail.
As the record shows, the Ferrari 640 won its first race in 1989. The rest, as they say, is history.
https://youtu.be/3UjeUo24E0g
My Mitsubishi has paddle shifters with a CVT box, which I think must be some engineer’s idea of a joke. I’ve tried them and it’s a deeply unsatisfying experience to use. A killer combination of fat, sluggish CUV (it’s an Outlander), slow-reacting ratio changes and a quiet engine.
If I want a low gear for going down steep hills, I use the actual gearstick. Otherwise I leave the box to its own devices.
For years I drove a stick shift and loved it but commuting in Washington DC made me switch to an automatic. Our Chrysler 300M had the autostick and my wife now has a Subaru Outback with the paddle shifters. I used the autostick once in the Chrysler and the paddle shifters twice in the Outback so I could say that I used them. It feels awkward since I don’t have a clutch and secondly neither of those cars really scream out for the need for a stick shift. To me it seems to be something that automakers add on for the enthusiast and the auto journalists. I was looking at a new 2018 Accord Touring 2.0 while my 2013 Accord V6 Touring was in for a recall. I may have rolled my eyes out loud when the salesman pointed out the paddle shifters to me.
I have them on my 5 Series. I rarely use them; just now and then when I’m playing on a Dallas 380 degree exit ramp or similar, but if some one snuck into my garage at night and removed them from the car it would probably be a month before I noticed.
I’ve driven a few cars with paddles and plenty with slappy sticks as favoured by G. Poon.
I drove a Mercedes minicoach and a VW motorhome with slappers, and I occasionally gave them a deserved slap on hills because they were a struggle. In a reasonably powerful car I don’t touch them.
It’s so obviously an automatic that when in manual mode I forget to shift, and when I do shift, it just feels so unsatisfactory.
I have paddle shifters in my 2007 Honda Fit Sport. My answer is “yes and no”. I have used them several times. When I get into a mood for some really spirited driving they come close to a manual experience in that I get to keep the engine up in its peak torque range, something that almost never happens with a normal automatic. And with a small, high revving engine like in the Fit, it can help.
That said, I have used them maybe twice a year for the entire ten years I have owned the car. I have a Miata with a 5 speed for real manual driving and my minivan has a full automatic. The Honda allows me to switch hit on the rare occasions when I want to.
The Fit is the easiest manual transmission car to drive in heavy Los Angeles traffic I have ever owned. While small, 1.5l, the long stroke design and variable intake cam profile makes more than enough torque at low rpm.
JP – your Fit has a “geared” automatic, right? My 3rd-gen Fit had the CVT, with paddles that simulated (seven!) gears, basically by holding the CVT at fixed points. Although, it would drop back to normal CVT if you lugged it or over-revved.
I’d say I used the paddles about 1/2 the time I drove, and every time I autocrossed the car. Normal CVT was fine (and preferred) in heavy traffic or on a road trip.
I had test-driven the 6MT Fit, but the gear ratios were not suited well for rural midwest driving. I could see the short, close ratios working well in a tight city with heavy traffic, though. The CVT wasn’t “bad,” and the paddle feature “very nearly” felt like a manual.
That said, I’m quite happy to be back to rowing my own these days.
Now, both the Routan and my RAM 2500 have the ability to manually select a gear, and given the horrid shift logic in both, I do use that feature, usually in mountains where either one will hunt like a dog. They’re always about two gears away from where they should be, and neither one will drop down ONE gear on an incline… they both drop down two or three, engine screaming, then upshift, upshift, bog, down three, engine scream, rinse and repeat ad nauseam sic tyrannis semper.
Same problem with the Tundra, poor shift logic for the torque curve of the engine. I went back to an older generation GM truck, still computerized, but not at all annoying to drive on grades. Fuel economy programming for the EPA driving cycle is the culprit.
The 5 speed transmission on my TSX Sportwagon does a good enough job so I don’t really bother. Except for one instance, going up to my house there is a sharp 15 mph bend that I’ll paddle down to 2nd. If I don’t it will stay in 3rd until I step on the gas and then it steps down.
Yes. When I’m driving the TSX Sportwagon briskly-fast-very fast on the kind of roads I generally drive it fast on (Western mountain/desert/hilly/curvy terrain) I shift into S and use the transmission like a manual. I can anticipate what gear I’m going to want or need at the curve or hill coming up, and can stay in a lower gear when I know I’m going to want instant response.
The Honda 5 speed automatic actually is pretty good in terms of its intelligent automatic shifting, including holding a lower gear for downgrades. I can’t fault it for what it is, but when one is really getting on it in varied terrain, there’s no substitute for having manual control.
But yeah, If I’m just cruising, I don’t use them much. Actually, I will hit the – paddle when I want more engine braking even if I’m not in S mode. I just reach for the – paddle intuitively.
There’s little doubt that if I lived in the Midwest or other mostly flat terrain with mostly straight roads, I’d probably never use them either. But out here, it’s almost essential for serious driving.
I have no issue with the whole idea. It’s silly to say that one should just have a manual if one wants to shift. I like the option of either-or, depending on my mood and the circumstances.
Let’s not forget that it’s not commonly an either-or option (manual or auto), as manuals are available in an increasingly very small percentage of cars. Paddle shifters are a legitimate alternative to a manual, especially if it’s a car that your SO uses and she doesn’t do manuals. 🙂
Paul, it might be that we share the same gearbox, as the second car in the family is a 2015 Euro Honda Civic Tourer (attached), and that is also auto with 5 gears and paddle shifters. This has the 1.8 petrol engine.
Yes, I sometimes use the paddles, even in D if I want to “kick down” or shift up when I’m in the mood for fuel saving (yes, it’s mostly in the head). It’s just more comfortable. at the tips of your fingers and makes an entire difference.
As a comparison, the other family car is a 1.4 turbo Opel Astra K, much faster, dynamic and enjoyable than the Civic, has 6 gears which you can drive manually (by moving the shifter to the right and than it’s the pushpull thing. I almost never use it in manual because of that. Even though that’s how you drive a manual – you lower your hand to the shifter.
But I got so used to the paddles it seems taking your hand off the steering wheel is medieval.
Most paddle shifters are worthless if you are driving in situations where a lot of steering is required since once you turn the wheel more than a 1/4 turn you cant reach them. Another Formula one race car idea that’s just a waste for general passenger car use. However if you don’t have them the Automotive press criticizes the daylights out the manufacturers. Give me a good sport mode in the auto trans like my Mazda 3 has and I never need the paddle shifters since it keeps the revs up when driving on hilly curvy roads.
I tend to agree, except that I’m not likely to be shifting while turning to such a degree, even in a manual. Maybe that’s just inability to do more than 2 or 3 things at the same time.
I’d wish the manufacturers would just start ignoring the automotive press. They’re the same ones that will whine about car is boring and slab-sided unless it’s an overstyled mess, and the end result is pretty much everything is an overstyled mess now. There seems to be a pretty big disconnect between what the automotive press goes on about and what people actually want when they buy a car.
I can’t say I never WILL use paddle shifters, because I’ve never driven a car equipped with them. I’m not against the idea, though I’m not a big fan of automatic transmissions.
But one of the attractions of my 2008 HHR daily driver is that it has a Getrag 5-speed manual transmission. It’s the first vehicle I’ve owned with a manual trans in about 10 years, and I’m loving it!
In fact, it’s pretty close to being a COAL (which I can write about, Paul – hint, hint)….
I thought paddle shifters were designed for the Amphicar! Live and learn! 😀
Just kidding. This article today is honestly the 1st time I’ve ever even heard of ‘paddle shifters’ or ‘Autostick’. I had no idea what they were and am still a bit hazy on what function they perform. So they are a quasi-manual form of transmission linkage that’s most useful when you wanna go f-a-s-t or you have to frequently drive over hilly terrain?
Let me say that I live on the side of a mountain in GA. It is not, however, a steeply sloped mountain; it’s slopes gently upward where I live so my old car doesn’t have any trouble climbing it. I get the feeling something like ‘paddle shifters’ might be useful if the mountain were steeper. There are some serious inclines around here, but fortunately I don’t have to drive up and down them for the places I go.
(It makes sense though, doesn’t it? Paddle shifters for the Amphicar . . . ).
It’s not anything new or novel by any stretch of the imagination, Carter. Chrysler, for example, started using the Autostick name and technology back in the mid-1990s on cars like the Eagle Vision and Dodge Intrepid. It’s just a way to manually shift an automatic transmission either by using the shifter or a button or paddles behind the steering wheel. It doesn’t go as far as a manual transmission in that there’s no clutch pedal and, depending on how it’s programmed, the car may still stop you from making certain shifts or override your shifting if you’re revving it up to the redline.
Instead of just having a “Low” selection on an automatic like back in the day or a limited number of gears you could push your shifter into, you can use manual shift control/Autostick/paddles etc to go through all of the gears.
Again, this is 20+ year old technology. Genuinely surprised you haven’t heard of it, it’s been mentioned on here many times.
‘Autostick’ and ‘paddle shifters’ just don’t ring a bell, William. → I’ll concede that I may have ridden in a car or two that had paddle shifters or Autostick and didn’t know it, but I don’t ever recall hearing those two terms before today. My mother has a 2012 BMW; maybe she has paddle shifters in it?
I looked yesterday; mum does not have paddle shifters in her 2012 Beemer.
All my cars have been manual, except 2. My actual car, a Subaru Outback, has paddle shifters. I use them, as Paul said, when I want more engine braking. I also like manual mode when using cruise control. I hate the permanent “up- and downshifts” of the CVT when cruising in hilly terrain. I just put it in 5th or 6th “gear” and connect cruise control. If I find a steep grade, I use the paddle shifters. But, no, I don’t think this is in any way comparable to a manual transmission, for better or for worse .
I also mainly use them (or the sport mode button) to get more engine braking, but when I was driving a diesel Mondeo wagon with a double-clutch box a couple of years ago I would use the shifter manually when accelerating hard because otherwise it would sometimes hit (and hold) the rev limiter! Even when that didn’t happen the shift point would be too high where power was dropping off, and it was better to be in the next gear using the turbodiesel torque.
I rarely used them on the GL and while I may had other cars with them, don’t even recall that functionality, so there’s the answer… I’ve also had various cars with the AutoStick functionality and once again, virtually never use(d) it. Two of our current vehicles have it, but it wouldn’t be a feature I’d miss. The 911 is a manual, I don’t think I’d have it (at least that generation) if it wasn’t one, period.
Now, I have driven a new GTI with a dual clutch automatic and in THAT case I did and probably would use them as it IS much closer (or identical to) using a real gearbox. There’s various other vehicles that have them as well in which I’d likely choose it and use it at times.
But on a regular automatic (or CVT), not particularly useful.
However, as a tangent, on vehicles that have Hill Descent Control, when it is engaged, sometimes they use the paddles for additional functionality, in this case to increase or decrease the speed. I believe our GL was that way and for that it made more sense as you could leave both hands on the wheel, feet off the pedals and still adjust the speed (minutely, from something like 3mph to 10mph or whatever).
My Impala has paddle shifters, and no, I have never used them. Why? I never found a good reason to use them, and always afraid that I would either wait too long to shift or downshifted going too fast for the next lower gear.
I have never checked this out, but I will have to see in the manual that if you are in 6th gear going 70 and shift to 1st, if it is even possible.
They protect themselves. I’ve had a manuamatic for years now. Mine won’t shift down if it’ll be too much, and it forces a shift if it hits the rev limiter. Later models I’ve driven bounce off the rev limiter, but that’s about the worst that can happen.
Never had a car with paddles, but the last 3 I’ve had all had auto sticks. I think in 7 years I’ve used the manual shift feature like 2 or 3 times. Of course, the biggest “hill” around here is the bridge over the highway.
I almost never use paddle shifters, but there is one stretch of road where I ALWAYS use the downshift paddle-
In LA, heading northbound on Crenshaw from Silver Spur Road takes you down a hill that loses 750 feet in elevation in less than 2 miles.
I’ve yet to find a hill descent control that can manage such a steep drop, but stepping down to 2nd or 3rd gear (final drive dependent) allows me to roll down this curvy section at a comfortable 55 or 60 MPH.
A death trap, that hill
I’ve never used them, but I’d think they’d be a more convenient way to force a shift than the fussy “shifters” cars come with these days.
When available I use them. I do not leave my Z in automatic mode often, and I really do prefer to shift myself. However, my Z does not have paddle shifters. When I drive my father’s M4 or my mother’s X5M I use the paddles.
Paddle shifters and AutoSticks make the most dull car fun. Cruise along in D when you’re just cruising, and slap the stick or paddles when you want to dig into the power band and drive for the love of driving. Not everyone has access to a genuine clutch manual or like Paul said, maybe you share your ride with an SO who doesn’t want to shift. Having the option to manu-shift is like getting two cars in one. I use them every chance I get.
How about when you can no longer select a gear with your manual shift lever?
About 2 weeks ago I was driving my 2000 VW Golf (5 speed manual) and downshifting, noticed the lever felt funny…well, I actually no longer had control over what gear I was in.
Fortunately, I was able to get the car into a parking lot, and also fortunately (it was 2AM) there wasn’t much traffic, as I live in a large city where during more normal hours I’d have to contend with traffic with my disabled car. I opened the hood and fortunately remembered where the selector on top of the transaxle had 2nd gear located. I had stopped so I didn’t need reverse (fortunately!) so I manually put it in 2nd gear and drove home (slipping the clutch a bit) since it was a compromise …driving home in 1st gear would have taken even longer (forever?).
Well, after 18 years the ozone finally got to the shift mechanism and my side to side cable was bad (there’s also a front to back). Replacing them did the trick.
Before that I had visions of pulleys and cables I might mount poking through the grill that I could use to select gears with my window rolled down, until I got the shift mechanism fixed.
Despite slipping the clutch a bit, I got home OK…I’m still on my original clutch…it outlasted the shift mechanism.
Came close to being stranded, but got it home without needing a tow.
I recently drove a friends Mazda Axella with five speed auto and paddles and of course I tried out the manual mode, I guess it has its place but for me I’ll stick to manual gearboxes, It took me a while to find one when I replaced my Xsara recently but persistence paid off and I found a manual turbo diesel Citroen C5 in Hamilton, lovely to drive, nice short throw shift easy clutch action light years better than the Xsara,
I’ve driven many auto shift trucks that have a manual mode and found that it is needed because either the trans doesnt shift fast enough for the terrain or selects the wrong gear on steep grades, some are better than others and some are truly diabolical, its all in the programing.
None of my vehicles have them. But I once drove a friend’s Smart ForTwo Brabus edition (yes, really) with paddle shifters.
It. Was. Awful.
Older Smarts are known for having terrible gearboxes, and the paddle shifters didn’t help. The shift time could be measured with an hourglass, or so it felt, so the anticipation suggested by the paddle shifters was just a huge PITA.
Newer Smarts come with dual-clutch gearboxes, and are less annoying…but the paddles would still be a complete waste on them.
No theyre stupid.
Nothing against the concept, and it’s nice to have the option. I thoroughly enjoy driving a true manual transmission car, and that’s my preference. Our little family fleet has cars with automatics too, and I thoroughly enjoy driving them as well (no paddle shifters in our cars though, just a couple different auto-sticks, but I have driven several cars with them).
The automatics, at least in our cars, are so good I rarely see the need to shift them myself. I suppose if I had an automatic transmission car that didn’t shift and select gears well I might use any paddles or auto-stick feature a lot more (I prefer a well designed center shifter over steering wheel paddles though).
My 06, Mazda 5 was the first car I’ve had with an auto. There was one specific hill on my commute I had to downshift one gear myself to go up easily (otherwise I’d have to floor the gas pedal, and the trans would go down 2 whole gears) Every other situation is drive, I let the trans do its own thing. Well, that and starting out in 2nd gear when it was snowy out. Once I got the minivan I drive now, it has a setting on the shifter to do it myself, but the computer overrules me every time! If I try manually downshifting, like to pass someone or to slow down in the snow, I put the shifter in “M” and back down a gear, and… nothing happens. If I put it in “2” to start out in snow, it still starts in 1st… somewhat aggravating. My wife has a newer van than mine with the 6-speed auto (instead of the 4-speed in mine) always seems to be hunting for the right gear, or in 5/6th gear before 30mph… her van has well over twice the power as mine, but you’d hardly know it by how the transmission is programmed to shift. It would be WORLDS better to drive, if it just had a proper 5-speed stick…
I am on Maui or the island of Hawaii a couple of times a year. That is about the only times I sample rental cars. This is not just between airport and hotel urban driving like typical business travel. The mountain grades are steep, demanding manual gear changes to keep the brakes from overheating. Nissan CVT cars are miserable. Ford Select Shift DSG transmissions work well for this, but are horrible in traffic. Kia, Dodge and Jeep rentals with traditional automatics work ok, even without paddle shifters. A regular console selector is good enough.
Live in a fairly hilly area so I use the paddle shifters quite a bit for engine braking in my Acura MDX. Find them more convenient than fiddling with the console selector.
It’s pretty ridiculous to see paddle shifters in something like a Kia Cadenza, but I do use them fairly often to downshift and for engine braking, like CPJ said above.
A few years ago I rented a Chrysler 300 in SoCal, and I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly missed the lack of downshift authority when coming down from Victorville on the 15 around Cajon Junction. Twisting the dial shifter to “L” made the car want to shift into second gear at 75 mph, which seemed a bit silly with an 8-speed transmission.
I know that stretch of I-15, I see all those brake lights, nobody understands the concept of selecting a lower gear on a down hill grade.
My wife’s Grand Cherokee V6 has them, and they are the only way to override the transmission programming for descending step grades or when towing a heavy load. I find it easier to use the auto-stick shifter in my daughter’s Jetta than the flappy paddles for such things, and manually shifting the 8-speed automatic in the Jeep just seems burdensome rather than fun. For my own use, I have a 6-speed manual in my GTI. I like the extra involvement of coordinating the clutch and shifter, even if the DSG can outperform it.
My 2013 Impreza is equipped (cursed?) with a CVT. While it ekes out some pretty decent mileage for an AWD vehicle, trying to pass/overtake on a rural 2 lane or hit the speed limit before merging onto the freeway from an uphill ramp can be pretty challenging. The paddle shifters, while engaging false gears, really do help when you need some extra power from a lower gear ratio… even if the ‘gear’ isn’t really a gear at all.
Also, growing up in the Appalachian mountains, downshifting on downhill drives or stopping from a high speed was practically beat into me as a teenage driver to avoid warping rotors or replacing pads more often than necessary. I don’t live in nearly as hilly country these days, but I still find myself downshifting with my paddle shifters.
I do use them! Quite a lot. All 3 of the cars I drive them have them (2016 Audi A7 3.0T, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport GT and 2014 Subaru Forester.). To be fair, the ones in the Forester are useless, since it’s a CVT and they really just annoy me. But in the other two, there are a few useful things that I do with them. For starters, I use them to engine brake the car, especially in the Mazda, where it works quite well. Secondly, sometimes I’ll use them to drop a cog or two in advance of wanting to pass. Both cars have a “D-M” mode where you can shift for a bit and then let it figure it out or pull and hold the right (up) paddle and go back to D, which is useful for that sort of thing. Thirdly, it impresses my friends. (More noise is apparently better, especially in the Audi, where at the right RPM you can hear the supercharger a bit.). Worth noting that some cars will shift up for you, some won’t. The Mazda is quite happy to bounce off the rev limiter all day, as was our 2007 TL Type-S. But overall, I find them quite fun to use and occasionally useful. (Mazda has a Sport mode for the transmission that will hold revs and the Audi has “Dynamic” mode which can be combined with D/S, which is engaged by pulling back on the gear lever whilst in D, to make it rather more exciting, although my friends still prefer me just doing it with the paddles.). That’s just my 2 cents, and admittedly, not everyone is a teenager with friends who are impressed by your display of noise and ability to pull a paddle. (I can dream about the similarity to the Audi R18, right?).
Ben
For me, an automatic must have a manual shift mode. That doesn’t mean I’ll always use it but it gives me options. My Falcon doesn’t have paddle shifters and instead I have to use the shifter. While that is vaguely reminiscent of my manual-driving days, I think paddles are superior. If they’re mounted properly, you can change gears without ever having to take your hands off the wheel and that’s never a bad thing.
If my ’07 Accord had a manu-matic provision, whether paddles or an autostick type of arrangement, I might very well use it—even when a shift wasn’t required—in an attempt to alleviate the boredom.
My answer to those are to just say no. Driving 5 speeds since 1975 I can see no use for them even though I know manuals are disappearing. Fortunately there will always be used cars with manuals to buy and care for.
On the other hand I have to consider my wife. So even though I’m leery that any 6 speed automatic, or more speeds autos, can even last 250,000 miles I’ll have to bite that bullet. That bullet is coming up as I start the process of looking for a new car for her. Fortunately she isn’t too picky outside of being new and with a working A/C. Haven’t gone to a new car dealer since 2004.
The problem here is choices. If you want a minivan, you’re getting an automatic (the models that offered manuals are too old for my needs). If you want a car that’s anywhere above a bottom-line penalty box, you’re getting an automatic. And in a lot of makes anymore, you’re getting an automatic. Period.
Never used paddles, but more than once I’ve used the +/- on Dad’s F-150 XLT Sport (the only XLT with a console shifter) when towing a hay rack. It’s really not necessary to do so, because tow/haul mode will hold the shifts longer anyway, and hay racks can only be pulled at 25-30 mph before they start to sway.
The +/- gate on the console lever at least provides some of the feel of a real stick shift, but flicking switches on the steering wheel feels awkward and not at all intuitive.
That’s almost exactly the reason Dad sought an XLT Sport with the console shifter. Between the F-350, L700 grain truck, and all our tractors, he’s gotten used to having a lever to rest his hand on. Plus in his youth he had always wanted the console shifter in his Dodge Mirada, but had to settle for a bench seat.
Now that Audi had to reprogram my V6 TDI, I use ’em all the time.
The reprogramming killed low end power, so the transmission doesn’t want to shift up any more. And 1800 rpm at 20 mph sounds awful darned busy in a diesel (and way out of character for a big A8). So I hit the flappy paddle.
A8 diesel? Did I read that correctly?
Obviously not a US reader!
I use paddles or sequential gates where available. I just like manual gear selection and the ability to preemptively change gears. I row conventional non-sequential automatic range selectors too for preemptive downshifts where appropriate.
Winter? Eco? Comfort? Sport? I’m not hunting for those buttons nor cycling through modes. Tap. Tap tap.
I’ve had part ownership (wife’s car) with two auto stick cars: A 04 Mazda3 and the current 15 Dodge Dart GT.
At my old place in Montpelier, the road to our house had a gorgeous set of twisties about a half mile from the driveway, the kind where you could take an actual racing line while having enough forward view to watch for oncoming traffic and enough space to get back into your lane if sighting oncoming traffic. For that set I always switched the Mazda into manual mode. Unfortunately, the Mazda’s automatic took slapping the shifter as a suggestion, not an order. It worked, but it wasn’t a manual.
Maggie’s Dart is something I normally don’t drive, so other than flipping thru it once to see that it worked, I’ve yet to try it.
Oops, the 08 Kia Sedona has the feature, too. In a mini van? I used it once or twice to climb up my steep, snow covered driveway at the old house. Otherwise, why bother?
If you want to try a auto-manual with razor sharp shifting, test ride a new Honda Gold Wing. It definitely does the job, and I hate it in automatic mode. Occasionally it’ll downshift in a turn not where you’d normally do it.
Which while barely noticeable in a car, it can be very disconcerting on a motorcycle.
I’m old. I believe that God intended for cars to have three pedals, and motorcycles to have two handlebar levers.
Two views.
One is that too many modern cars have foolish programming which leaves you hangin’ on the wrong side of the road waiting sweatily for SOME lower gear (any’ll do) when you’ve gone to overtake. (And if it’s a French car, think of driving your sometimes-unresponsive overtaker in it’s Confused Mode at all times). Or, at the other end, trying to reach 11th gear overdrive in some 30mph limit place where there are permanent cameras. Paddles then can maybe exert some authority, though no more than a moveable autostick, surely.
The other is that the paddles are nonsense. You’ll never use them even on that windy road, if driving even vaguely legally within the really high standard that is the capability of the modern car – any faster in a modern car and you’re being a danger to all – so the reality is that they’re marketing addenda which if seen closely from underneath, has the underside of the left paddle stamped “wank” and the right “harder.”
The reality is somewhere between those two views, I reckon.
Thanks for telling me I’m a wanker. I own it.
My pleasure. Or yours, as it were.
Bloody hell.
Paul, I didn’t attack you personally, nor intend to. I gave my thoughts amongst the many here, the key being “the many.” I’ll certainly concede in re-reading here that my attempt to be smart could be read as a mannerless counterpoint to your comment way up the page.
I’ll try and put it better.
Spoilers, scoops, skirts, diffusers, vents, 20 inch zero-sidewall tires as wide as they are tall, sportsmodes and paddleshifters, they all have no relevance whatsoever to road use, to the 90% of folk who purchase a car for transport. They are shiny things installed so the buyer believes their mundane purchase is imbued with the abilities of a racer, just as 4WD and black arches make them believe they will take that offroad camping trip, instead of being stuck in traffic and school runs as will be the reality. It helps shift it out the door. These paraphenalia are the selling of an idea, not a reality. They are a visible manifestation of the thing capitalism has proved (and will continue to prove to be) unbeatable at doing, and that is the selling of desire. It works.
That, then, is the wank. That is the selling of the false, that is the triumph of image over substance. And I make clear that am no less immune to such than the next person.
Hard driving on a public road – and here we will disagree – whereby the paddles are used, indicating likely flat-chat use of the machine, is not something safe to do in a modern car. Magazines talk of driving at the limit, what have you: when cars rolled and screeched and really did reach (and overreach) limits, that was relevant test, and safe enough. If a modern car, like a humble TSX, with huge lateral footprint on the tarmac, is screeching or sliding, the driver is driving dangerously. Not necessarily for their own switched-on self, but for the rest, who, very often, are not.
I don’t say that as some holy who hasn’t done these things nor found them unenjoyable, but the urge to do so on a public road has fallen away as I’ve aged. Perhaps too, from my work. I’ve seen too much of the effects of it going wrong to find it supportable.
All of which amounts to a different view from yours, and a fully-justifiable one – but is not a personal insult.
How could you attack me with that? I’ve always wondered why “wank” or “jerk-off” or “masturbator” are used as derogatory words. What healthy guy doesn’t or hasn’t enjoyed a good wank? I’m fortunate to have a healthy sex life at my age with a real life ready, willing and able partner, but there are time when wanking is called for. It’s certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Which is why I said, “I own it”. It’s time to step out of the closet on these archaic ideas that masturbation is anything other than a normal healthy activity.
Spoilers, scoops, skirts, diffusers, vents, 20 inch zero-sidewall tires as wide as they are tall, sportsmodes and paddleshifters, they all have no relevance whatsoever to road use, to the 90% of folk who purchase a car for transport.
So therefore the other 10% should be deprived of their benefits? Realistically, do you see these on much more than about 10% or so of the cars on the road, or even that many? I don’t think so. And if so, who cares? How many folks with racing stripes on their cars in 1969 actually went racing?
Hard driving on a public road – and here we will disagree – whereby the paddles are used, indicating likely flat-chat use of the machine, is not something safe to do in a modern car.
You’re kind of indulging in a sweeping judgmental generalization, and one I don’t agree with. Frankly, it’s much more safe than it was in the crappy small-tired cars of yore. A well set-up modern sports sedan/wagon with commensurate tires is amazingly controllable at speeds that are in its upper levels of its capabilities. Have you driven cars like this recently? At higher speeds?
Keep in mind two important things: I don’t pretend to claim that when I’m driving fast (and using the paddles) that I’m right at the hairy edge (or 99%) all the time. I’ve certainly approached that, and I’ve driven the TSX at its electronically-limited top speed (130mph), but the kind of driving I’m talking about is on very carefully selected remote roads/highways in the hinterlands of the Western USA, which usually involve lots of transitions from straight sections into very curvy/steep sections, in an oft-repeated pattern. Using the transmission as a manual, meaning shifting down before the power required from the new lower gear is actually needed, is something no automatic can (yet) do. They can’t see that steep curve or rise up ahead.
One can drive a modern sports sedan/wagon amazingly quickly without having t utilize its absolute full capacity. It isn’t like the days of yore you describe with screaming little tires and barely controlled bodies wildly gyrating over them, like in the car chase scenes we saw here at CC in the past day or two.
One more point: out TSX has a four cylinder engine with all of 200 hp, meaning it’s hardly a Mclaren or Ferrari. It’s essentially an Accord, with a bit shorter wheelbase and a well sorted-out sports-tuned suspension, wheels and tires. My point is that it’s quite necessary to utilize its full abilities for sporty/brisk driving. That alone explains in part why the paddle shifters come in handy. This engine has a rather peaky rev band and its torque peak is unusually high.
Anyway, I don’t have to defend my driving style to you or anyone else, and I’m willing to pay the price if caught ($744 in my latest ticket at 130 mph in Nevada). And I truly don’t feel I’m putting myself, my wife or other motorists at risk. I am very selective as to where and when and how I indulge my fast driving.
But I do feel a bit of breeze coming from your wagging finger, which is actually decidedly less welcome than calling me a wanker. 🙂
Totally agreed on all points about the wank thing – I think it’s a hangover from Catholicism saying “Stop it, or you’ll go blind.” I still like it as a term of contempt for all things marketing, though.
As to the paddlephenalia, even little econo-rentals have plenty of the stuff, so I do see it a lot. It’s all functionless even for the 10%, with the (sometime) single exception of the paddles themselves.
Yes, I’ve ofcourse I’ve had a good fang in moderns when no-one’s around, on modern tyres, and for me, the limits are so high they’re not reachable (except perhaps if it’s wet). The cornering speeds can be whopping even in a humble car, so when modern mag/internet writers (not you) describe understeer and oversteer on such-and-such a machine in road driving, they really are writing with one hand firmly on their autostick! (Most memorable for me personally fanging was about a year back was a 2014 Evo on a little mountain road, and if that beast was about to do anything other than fling me around the corner like a gravity defier then I was about to meet my maker).
I do get the point too about hilly terrain and anticipation and high-spinning engines. Many times driving the (rather worn) 2.3-engined ’03 Odyssey with load aboard, if I didn’t use the wobbly gate at least a bit, the thing couldn’t even keep up to the speed limits, let alone exceed ’em.
And you’re probably right about the breezy finger, which makes me at very least an occasional hypocrite and certainly a rather tiresome guest on someone elses’ website, so I’d seek to withdraw it.
That first statement “in a world where manuals are a dying breed” really only applies to the US, although overall autos are increasing in number for Internal Combustion cars, manuals are still the preference for Europe and much of Asia
If you take your driving test in the UK in an automatic, you can only drive an automatic, and would have to take another driving test to drive a manual. I doubt if 5% of people ever take their test in an automatic. Europeans simply don’t give driving a manual car a second thought, I mean , its not exactly difficult.
Autos in general are considered overly complex, expensive as an option and very expensive to repair (I know, thanks Mercedes and Ford), until recently less efficient and less fun by most people. They also tended not to work very well with engines under 2 litres
I have always been interested in the design of automatic transmissions so have had a 50/50 split of auto to manual over the years but that has depended upon the type of car, where economy or sporty = manual for better control and fun, and luxury = Auto as I can appreciate mechanical refinement and smoothness as much as performance.
When I last had an auto, after 3 years I craved a manual for a change. The last 3 have been manual so the next may be an auto
When they work, the paddles do give you the control and fun factor of a manual, but no more satisfying than a well designed centre shifter.
I think autos will be the rule worldwide when we move to electric en masse where the motors generate maximum torque at zero revs
That is my thinking. By the time I need another new passenger car, electrics will be mainstream and transmissions will be an artifact of the past.
My TSX wagon has paddle shifters. I use the in low traction situations to control wheel slip or enhance engine braking. Otherwise the computer knows the drivetrain limitations better than I do
I use them in mountenous areas, the stupid computer wants to send the car uphill in sixth
gear for environmental reasons. The car has a DNA gearbox where D stands for dynamic.
I always drive in N for normal.
The car is a MiTo Veloce 1100kilos and 170 horses.
There for a while I had nothing but 5-speeds… a 300ZX, an ’89 Ranger, and my Harley Sportster. My wife can handle a manual trans just fine, she just doesn’t like them that much. Her last two cars (PT Cruiser and lately a Patriot) are autos. I drive a ’93 Ranger with a 5-speed. I would rather drive that or an old 3 on the tree than use paddles. I don’t mind automatics. Most of the giant boat anchor cars I’ve had came with them.
I guess that’s kind of interesting seeing as I still play racing games on my PS3 and I also work at a dealership that has Audis and Porsche’s DonkeyKong transmissions.
The only time I ever used my autostick was when something went wrong with my rev limiter and it wouldn’t shift out of first gear when I was accelerating onto a highway. That remedy failed and I had to pull over and restart the engine. This is all just a marketing gimmick especially now that automatic transmissions are more efficient than their manual counterparts.
That Mk5 Golf GTI that introduced you to paddle shifters may be one of the few cars I’d occasionally use them in. VW Group’s dual-clutch transmission with it’s split-second, near-instantaneous upshifts and downshifts show off the paddles at their best and most useful. They work less well with a traditional slushbox (including VW’s sometimes sluggish 6-speed auto) and especially CVTs with fake “gears”. But even paddle shifters get more use from me than “sport mode”, “eco mode”, or other modes on the main floor shifter. The whole point of an automatic transmission is that it’s automatic. I shouldn’t need to deal with paddles and modes. (except sometimes the winter mode if well executed).
The comments seem to cover the range from true paddle shifting to merely using the gear selector to pick a gear, which the transmission controller may or may not actually select. I’ve only driven one car with steering wheel shift controls, a Ferrari, and yes – I used them and it was fun.
Today I briefly drove a new Mini rental with automatic on a tight mountain road, and while the powerband and transmission programming didn’t play well together in Drive, attempting to use the unintuitive manual modes was no more successful for me, so I eased off and just cruised in D. To be fair, some more experience with the car may have resulted in a satisfying experience. But in just a 30 minute drive the instrumentation and control layout and function got a D minus grade for me.
On my Tacoma there are frequently mountain road situations where I would rather pick the gear I want and hold it, not the gear the computer picks and then changes every few seconds based on throttle opening, rpm and road speed, so I use the lever, and would perhaps prefer to be able select that gear without removing my hands from the wheel. But that scenario is certainly not one where I’d play the paddles up and down like I would the shifter on my motorcycle. If I wanted to do that I wouldn’t be driving my truck.
By the way, interesting to read the different opinions on the 6MT Fit … we test drove a 2018 Fit Sport and both my wife and I felt the combination of powerband, clutch and shifter feel, and gear ratios was nearly as nice as the Golf we ended up with.
Finally, while I realize some people need automatics for medical reasons, it’s not my experience that heavy stop and go traffic is a real reason to go clutchless. While drivers in China, Japan, Taiwan, Australia and the US seem to be adopting automatics in a big way, urban traffic in France, Italy and the UK is pretty bad but those folks seem to do just fine with 3 pedals.
In the UK, automatics are now in about 40% of new cars sold. The take rate for the rest of Europe is growing steadily.
Europeans are apparently just more stoic (or cheaper). Let’s face it; a clutch gets old in stop and go traffic.
Amen. About 15 years ago I was overjoyed to find a nice (at least superficially) ’85 Volvo 245 Turbo with M46 4-speed + overdrive. So much so that I flew to North Carolina to fetch it. But Toronto’s traffic very quickly made me half-wish for an automatic. The other half of the wish came from something that hadn’t occurred to me the previous times I’d picked a car: this time I had a partner (now spouse), and the manual transmission meant we couldn’t readily hold hands in city traffic slow and otherwise low-demand enough for one hand to suffice on the steering wheel.
I last read it was 30% and was surprised by that, but many Europeans simply don’t want auto, there are very few auto drivers amongst my friends and family, its what they choose.
Most people here purchase secondhand anyway, many new cars are purchased by companies and many jobs come with a company cars as a perk. The end users do not have to consider the repair costs after the warrantee period.
In the secondhand car market, used autos are regarded with suspicion and for good reason, I have had 4 gearbox failures since 1978, 3 autos and only one manual, and reconditioned manual gearboxes are cheap and readily available, autos are very expensive in comparison
In 2017, it was 37.4% and rising. It’s safe to assume it will hit 40% any day now soon.
I certainly use them. Part of what’s great about driving is having control and more control is more fun. Maybe if I lived somewhere flat, I’d skip them but with California hills and curves, using shifting for engine/ gear braking, anyway I can is fantastic.
I’m with the author on this, paddle shifters suck compared to buttons on the shifter stalk. I’ve only driven a manual once, and thought I may like it if I ever get the opportunity to drive one for an extended period, but that hasn’t happened (I’m not quite old/stable enough to buy my own car). That being said, I’ve driven a Focus with shifter buttons and a Chrysler 300 and an Acura TL with paddle shifters. I found the paddle shifters an ergonomic nightmare if I tried to shift while steering, whereas obviously button shifting didn’t present the same problem. So if I had to choose between paddle shifters or no manual control at all but having a responsive automatic that doesn’t shift at 2500rpm while still accelerating, I’d choose the latter.
(My two cents turned out to be awfully cheap per word)
Practically every day (2012 MDX). Primarily for downshifting when approaching slowing traffic or before going into a Turn. The MDX system is nice, in that if you use the paddles while in normal automatic mode it resumes auto operation at the next logical shift point. But if you place the selector in S mode, using the paddles puts it into full manumatic.
I have experience with paddle shifters in both exotic and regular cars. A few years back, I did a HPDE (high performance driving experience) day with a company that supplied the cars and the location. You got your choice of exotic car and were supplied with a driving coach to go around a local sports car track.The cars were automatic only, apparently due to the fact that many of the participants had never driven manuals on a road course and it would make it easier for the driving coach to take control of the car in the event of a problem. The Lamborghini I was driving was quite fun and I will do it again when I get a chance.
My kid’s Saturn Aura XR had the 3.6L V6 and the six speed auto with the shifter paddles on the steering wheel. I’d driven the car numerous times and found them somewhat useful in challenging terrain. Like others mentioned, the transmissions on their own upshift frequently and don’t downshift far enough for braking purposes. At least on that car, it was fairly powerful and when the transmission was left to it’s own programming it was a good setup. The paddle shifters weren’t that necessary.
My own car, a Pontiac G6 with the 2.4L Ecotec and a similar six speed automatic has an “Autostick” style of selector. The funny thing with that car is that at part throttle acceleration, it will shift up with nice clean shifts. However, trying to merge in fast highway traffic, the trans will “flare” or not shift up into the next highest gear and rev beyond the HP and torque curves. I end up using the autostick feature to try and better match the revs to the gears, but even then, the trans STILL sometimes flares. Again, like others have mentioned, the trans will decide when the appropriate time is for shifting, not you, meatbag.
I also would probably like to have a manual of some sort, but after breaking my left ankle twice in three years, it’s not having any more of that, so automatics for me…
My only experience with paddle shifter semi-automatics has been in rentals or BMW loaners, and I’ve never been happy with the lag. I only use them when driving through hilly areas where I have to hold gears. My own personal ride of course is a 5-speed 89 E30, so I don’t ever daily something like that. I do use manual mode for in auto-equipped cars because sliding the shifter over to M and driving normally changes the shift points, or allows me to use fuzzy/learning logic to change the shift points. My all-time favorite auto trans experience was figuring out there was a hidden sport mode on my cousin’s 1997-ish 740il, which changed the car dramatically – my cousin, a racer, drove it after and was shocked at how different it was, iirc.
Tested them in a 2017 Fit hybrid (I live in Japan), and even the salesman said “they are not worth the cost, but try them”. He was right. They reacted too slowly (the Fit drivetrain’s computer shifts when it decides the time is right).