The raven stands before the shiny object, cocks his head, and eyes it, unsure. He was headed elsewhere on necessary errands when the glint caught his eye midflight and he descended. It has now captured his attention and he thinks he wants it. Why, precisely, is hard to say. He doesn’t need it. It’s not going to make the nest any more functional or the search for food more successful. If anything, it presents a bit of a risk. But it’s new to him, it’s interesting, and it is triggering some innate urge buried deep within his behavioral biology.
“Crow Collects”, watercolor by Cori Lee Marvin (https://marvindale.ca/). We’re not so different ourselves.
What is it that drives our intense interest in the automobile? At their core, they are tools that obliterate distance and allow even the barely-ambulatory among us to cross continents. That is bound to addict an organism with an evolutionary history of moving at about 3 miles per hour. But there’s something more. We go to great lengths to make them far more than tools. We sculpt them, we furnish them, we inlay wood and metal in the interiors, fuss over material quality on the seats, and even (such silliness) mold the hard plastics to look like leather. None of this enhances the core function of the car. We want them to be unnecessarily fast, to look a certain way, to feel a certain way, to glisten and shine. We imbue them with personality and character and have created an entire universe around them.
Some have turned this interest into constructive cerebral pursuits: the mechanics, the engineers, the product planners, the modders. They understand these machines and can do remarkable things with them. At the other end is the car enthusiast, which is perhaps the lowest form of life in the automotive food web. Their interest is consumptive rather than constructive, and it’s difficult to respect their obsession with the decadent concerns of handling balance, engine performance, or even worse–brand cachet, social status, and gross conspicuous consumption.
Unfortunately, I’m one of them to an extent. I can’t advance a timing chain or diagnose a check engine light, but I notice and appreciate the differences in how a vehicle looks, drives, and accomplishes a task. I recognize and respond to the differing character and details which make each car unique. It is obvious that a lot of people expended a lot of professional talent to get this miracle machine out the door. The car is part of my personal habitat, and I feel the urge to enhance and modify that habitat. I’m the raven zeroing in on the shiny object. And this Audi…well, it’s the shiniest to my eye. This is the one that prompted this entire car-shopping exercise.
The Black Optics package detracts from this car’s mature and clean form with wheels and lower body cladding that add an unwanted aggro-juvenile flair.
I approach this machine with a touch of caution. It is the benchmark and I am expecting a lot from it. The raven is unsure. It’s obtainable, yes. He could pick it up and fly it back to the nest with some effort and a little sacrifice. But if he doesn’t like it, if it doesn’t meet expectations, if the shine is only surficial and already wearing off, then here it will continue to sit. And the raven will be left with a real conundrum: maybe shiny things aren’t worth diverting for after all. Maybe what he has is good enough and this search just needs to end.
The Audi A5 Sportback is a five-door liftback based on the B9 Audi A4 sedan. This is not a common form of car because most people want their five-doors lifted another foot into the air. If it survives into the next generation at all I will be somewhat surprised, and if it does so without becoming an EV I will be fully shocked. It’s unique in today’s automotive landscape. It is shorter and lower than our Camry, yet it has a usable backseat and 20 cubic feet of cargo space under the liftback. The turbocharged 4 cylinder engine can get the car to 60mph in just over 5 seconds while delivering mid-30s mpg on the highway even with the Quattro AWD. The resume is impressive.
I love the way this car looks. It grabs my attention every time I see one, and I have found the quiet confident road manners of VAG products to be a very satisfying blend of capability and comfort in the past. It combines the functionality I need from a family car with the driving character, styling, and material quality–the shine–that I want. Ostensibly, this is The One.
I begin by tentatively pecking at the object. I look at the sheet metal and panel fit. Very tight and consistent, and the sharp styling crease down the side is a good piece of work. I open the liftback to the cargo bay and it’s larger than the BMW 430i. Yes, yes, a fine cargo space indeed, and a spare under the floor. We can continue to pretend this is about practicality. The ruse continues in the backseat, where I have just enough extra space over the 430i. An extra inch of legroom. A smidge more headroom. A tad more toe space. Just enough to matter. The long front passenger footwell allows that seat to move forward enough to add another two inches of rear legroom without impacting an adult’s comfort up front. The boy can grow into a teenager back here, no problem.
5’11” me sitting behind my forward-most front seating position.
The driver’s door opens with the requisite heavy Germanic kerchunk. I like that. Yet it closes with the sloppy secondary resonance of my Fiesta: kerchunk-unk. That’s disappointing. My entry-level Jetta Sportwagen sounded like a million bucks when you closed the door and I was hoping for the same here. The frameless windows are perhaps to blame; you can’t get that bank vault solidity without window frames.
The seats are comfortable but firm, the visibility is good, the clean minimalist dashboard is attractive, and the material quality is generally high. The grained grey wood trim running across the dash, doors, and console is a nice touch. I’d like a little more suppleness to the rubbery door panels and a more solid feeling glovebox, but otherwise this is a crisp, well-executed interior that looks and feels the price. This is also a confident interior that is comfortable with itself. It is the strong silent type as opposed to the insecure C-Class which compensates for self-doubt with gaudy digital glitz and gimmicks.
Whereas Bimmer and Benz have gone full vodka bar, Audi has kept simple, clean, and restrained white accent lighting.
The A5 drives very nicely if you are looking for a quiet, rapid, near-luxury, near-sport sedan with a turbocharged engine and automatic transmission. There are some drawbacks if you want it to be more than that: it is not tactile enough to be a true sports sedan and it is not plush or rich enough to be a true luxury experience. The engine is astoundingly strong for a 2-liter four cylinder and is the most extroverted part of this otherwise polite and reserved car. When the turbo hits, the car rears back a touch and you are pressed convincingly into the seat. The upshifts are rapid, downshifts are prompt, and it flies. The Acura TLX and G70 aren’t even close and I don’t see much reason to step up to the turbo sixes in the S5 or Stinger GT. It even sounds decent.
The steering lacks road feel, which I’m finding is true of everything I’ve tried so far except the G70. I think that’s a lost cause which I will just need to accept. But it is accurate, responsive, consistent, not artificially heavy, and I prefer it to the BMW for those last two reasons. Ride quality is firm, quite similar to our Camry, and has more tire impact noise over manhole covers than I expected but no associated structural squeaks. The car feels very solid even at this mileage.
The A5 corners strongly with minimal body roll and a surprising level of grip considering how benign it feels at low speeds. I was able to catch a green light and take a left-handed uphill onramp at speed and the way the AWD enables the car to put down power and increase velocity through the turn is very impressive to me. Road noise is well controlled. It’s a car I could enjoy in just about any driving situation and that is, ultimately, what I’m looking for.
The optional digital cockpit. Avoid it. Pretty cool to have the nav screen superimposed here, but this gimmick will eventually fail. This is an Apple smartwatch: entertaining but fundamentally cheap, while the physical gauges in a Lexus GS350 are a Breitling Navitimer: limited in function but beautifully crafted. Choose your definition of luxury.
Some may have noted by now that this is similar to how I described the BMW 430 I rejected. The parallels are remarkable (or not, given that they’re direct competitors), but the Audi wins on the margins. The steering feels a bit more honest, the ride is a little more compliant without dulling the handling, the road noise is a tad lower, the interior a half-step larger, the engine a bit more powerful and notably less gritty. Since neither are true sports cars and I’ve had to adjust my unrealistic expectations for this class, I’m drawn to the Audi for sanding off the rougher edges the BMW left behind. It feels more cohesive and well-rounded to me and I felt more at home in the Audi than the BMW for reasons not fully known.
Outwardly, the car is holding up well. This one has 82,000 miles on it and you can’t tell from driving it or poking about the interior. That hasn’t always been the case with VAG products. MSRP on an equivalent 2023 is $58,000 but this one has lost 60% of its value and can be purchased for the same price as a base Corolla with a keyed ignition. With a German marque, you never know if that’s a raging bargain or just a down payment on headaches.
It’s not perfect. I complain about lag from small turbo engines in every review and this car has massive amounts of it from a dead stop. Lightly brake-torquing the BMW mitigated it, but this didn’t work for the Audi because it won’t let you rev the engine above idle against the brakes. Dynamic drive mode did nothing. Putting the transmission in Sport did nothing. Whatever left turn you make against traffic had better be carefully timed because that first one-one-thousand is going to nose you into harm’s way and only when the power hits will you scoot out of it. When is a 4-pot Camry much faster than an Audi? Here.
Longitudinal four just forward of the axle, with the DSG looming behind it. It’s amazing such a small engine can fling the car so well.
After some scouring of the owner’s forums, I learned that the dual-clutch DSG transmission may be a culprit. The fundamental difference between the automated manual and a conventional automatic like the ZF 8 speed used in the S5 is that the DSG clutches disengage at a stop, putting the transmission in neutral. There is a pause between lifting off the brakes and the DSG engaging the clutch. Some owners claim that lifting off the brake and waiting for the subtle engagement before applying the throttle enables the car to scoot off nicely. I may have to follow up on that one, because I can deal with that. It’s not much different than beginning to blend clutch and throttle a half-second before anticipated takeoff with a manual transmission.
The test driver’s notes from an Edmunds.com review also described a hidden launch control function. Activate it and the computers will let you rev the engine against the brakes and allow the car to fling itself off the line the way you expect a powerful AWD car to do. Very useful for occasional stoplight shenanigans (I’m trying to grow up but it’s hard) but you’re not going to punch that function up in daily driving.
For the ungrateful bratlings…heated seats and dedicated temperature controls. As if they deserve anything more than a good caning
My other hesitation is reliability, because…well, you know why. Does it have four rings on the hood or doesn’t it? First-generation EA888 engines were notorious oil-gobblers in the A4, something to do with faulty piston rings. Failed timing chain tensioners added another fun way to grenade the engines. Apparently this third generation EA888 is better, though the plastic water pump and thermostat housings are already leaking. No biggie, right? Just a little lost coolant. Plenty of it onboard. It’s a less complicated beast than Kyree’s recent A8 COAL, but it’s still an Audi.
The raven is unsure. The object is indeed shiny, so shiny, and it hasn’t lost any obvious luster. He wants it, but he’s afraid this is what the molting juveniles call “hot garbage” and will soon break open and pour filth and misery all over his nest if he brings it home. So he hesitates, and flies off to think about it. He learns some other bird soon swooped in and snatched the object. That’s OK. The fields are littered with them. It provides time to think.
And think he does. How long would he want this car? Will it prove to be a lovely tool or a troublesome bauble? Can it last 6-7 years? Will he cry when it betrays him and throws its coolant all over the interstate on a road trip? Tough questions. Answer one way, and the A5 is The One. Answer the other way and he needs to start scouring for a GS350.
And indeed, we’re down to those two. The next step is to bring the brood along for a follow up test of each. There are questions that need answering. What does my wife think? What do the fledglings want (like I care). What will more thorough assessments of freeway noise levels and ride quality over our neglected old town street grid reveal? We’re getting close, but there is still some probing to do before I fly off with my shiny object.
Will I be the first to comment: “Looks too much like a Camry to me”?
Mark, you say that like it’s a bad thing.
Not good, not bad, just derivative.
If…IF…the much more expensive Audi had Camry reliability.
My time in the car business ended any desire for any modern German, English, or Italian cars. All I can see is headaches and expense. To each their own though, many would find my current taste unbearably boring.
Jon, I imagine I am not the only CCer who would be interested in reading your account of this. Have you considered writing an article?
Jon, I second Petrichor’s request!
” At the other end is the car enthusiast, which is perhaps the lowest form of life in the automotive food web… ” .
So funny. I gotta read this post immediately.
” When is a 4-pot Camry much faster than an Audi? Here.”
Such a complicated collection of transmission, electronic, and clutch stuff. And then this potentially dangerous left turn hesitation?
It sounds just shiny enough for this post author, but he needs some sense of assurance that all will be well.
My answer: If you go for it, keep the Camry as a backup.
“If you go for it, keep the Camry as a backup”
This is wise.
Ultimately, that fact that this is wise speaks to the complicated calculus of deciding whether the vehicle that speaks to you most is worth it over the alternative (Lexus) that is nearly as good in the subjectives and won’t stab you in the back.
Great pics and bio info. The basic design inside and out, is quite attractive. Hurt in this example, by an excruciatingly bland colour scheme.
Yes, grey/black on white is far from exciting and there are numerous other color choices inside and out to brighten things up.
I’ll say this, though: all three of our current vehicles are bright happy colors and they are all hell to keep looking good parked outside in the dust, rain, pollen, etc. Silver is boring, but my silver car stayed looking clean far longer than the happy ones do.
There are very good reasons why this car can be purchased for, as you say, “the same price as a base Corolla with a keyed ignition.” And I think you know every one of them 🙂 Never mind that five years down the road from that purchase the Corolla will likely still be worth 80% of that price whereas the Audi (and I’ll be charitable here) will not.
Having owned five Audis myself (albeit all of the older and simpler generations even with turbos etc), I’m as big an Audi believer as you’ll find, or perhaps I used to be that since I don’t own any currently. An 85k mile Audi at “real money” prices is not a wise purchase. It fulfills the desires but not the needs of most people who are looking at higher than average mile cars for a fraction of the new car price who are on some sort of real-life budget which, let’s face it, is most of us, otherwise we’d simply buy a new one.
An older luxury car is attractive at a bargain price only when that price represents walk-away money, i.e. when something (or multiple somethings) go bad, it’s no great pain to simply walk away from it. At $23k, for most but not all people that calculus changes and if something (or somethings) go bad, there’ll need to be further and very possible significant investment in order to recoup a reasonable fraction of the initial investment, i.e. most can’t simply walk away. And you meet the chumps who spent $23k on a base Corolla with a key as they are the ones picking you up from the dealership to drive you home after you’ve checked if Lyft or Uber is cheaper for that ride.
The Lexus you mentioned in comparison, if for similar money and similar mileage, is a no-brainer if approached analytically. Any “engagement” or “feel” or let’s face it “early middle age social status” that the Lexus may lack in comparison is more than made up for financially to anyone who isn’t playing with throwaway money. Stated another way, a Lexus with 82k miles would fill me with the same confidence that this Audi might (might) at 32k miles. The Lexus may have some sort of large expenditure in its next 80k of future miles but it’s unlikely to have multiple of them. I can’t be nearly as confident in the Audi, especially as the initial excitement wears off and it’s viewed as “our family car”.
But never mind all that; from what I know of you through your writings to date, I believe that simply the non-solid door thunk of the A5 will bother you every time you get in the car.
This has been an interesting series and parallels many similar “journeys” I’ve made over the years; I’m looking forward to the next installment and also the one or more over the next five years no matter your final decision.
Incisive analysis, imo. Nail-on-the-head stuff.
“And you meet the chumps who spent $23k on a base Corolla with a key as they are the ones picking you up from the dealership to drive you home after you’ve checked if Lyft or Uber is cheaper for that ride.”
Ha! Don’t I know it! My most-recent “failed to start” episode ended with the car heading to the shop on a rollback, but on the one before that, I was picked up in a Camry Hybrid that had me seriously contemplating my awful life choices.
Jim: This part made me think of my nephew: “An older luxury car is attractive at a bargain price only when that price represents walk-away money, i.e. when something (or multiple somethings) go bad, it’s no great pain to simply walk away from it. At $23k, for most but not all people that calculus changes and if something (or somethings) go bad, there’ll need to be further and very possible significant investment in order to recoup a reasonable fraction of the initial investment, i.e. most can’t simply walk away.”
For many years he was an Audi tech in Madison, WI. He would often encounter drivers bringing their cars in for a repair or repairs. The costs would be too great and the owner was faced with do I fix and keep or bail on it. So often he would end up buying these cars dirt cheap and since he was a tech, he could buy the parts at cost and do the work himself. And without the dealer profits!! I think he made more money doing that than the actual working for the dealer.
This is the Jim Klein magnum opus I was hoping for, thank you. Excellent points made, and a thorough summary of the risks and rewards of a car like this.
You’re welcome 🙂 And I forgot to add that you already have a 4Runner and another smaller car with a hatch to carry the 60″ TV home, the trunk on the GS would likely work fine most days of the year just like the Camry’s and Altima’s before that likely does/did. Don’t let Perfect in one aspect get in the way of Great in most aspects and likely Perfectly Fine in that one aspect. You’ll fret about the accessibility to thieves of your vacation luggage in a liftback over a trunk anyway…
About 15 years ago a guy I worked with replaced his Mercedes E with a GS and had endless trouble with it. He traded it on an RX after a couple of years and it has given him the fabled Lexus reliability. His feeling was that the GS a low volume model for Lexus and they did not put enough into the engineering. It was a very nice car to ride in.
One example from 15 years ago isn’t much to hang a hat on. Your acquaintance’s feelings were probably just that. I’m not a Consumer Reports subscriber, but there’s screenshots here and there on the web of their reliability ratings and the final generation GS was even with the stalwart ES, IS, GX on those. Yeah, I know CR’s scope is limited and there are flaws, but what else do we have?
If you wonder why a turbo-four premium German ride has been conspicuously absent from my COAL series, it’s because they tend to be the most disposable, and thus represent the most dubious value as used cars. To me, an A4 or A5 with the 2.0T does not drive markedly better than a MAZDA3 or a Civic, but stands to lose a whole lot more of its resale value–even after the initial depreciation hit–*and* be more trouble to keep running. That’s not to say that my habit of purchasing the flagship models–replete with air suspension, multi-turbo V8s, hydraulic motor mounts and all manner of other complicated nonsense–is great either. Probably the best value is the one of the mid-size models (5 Series, A6, E-Class) with a 6-cylinder engine. If you were looking at a C7-generation A7 with the 3.0T, this would be a tougher choice…especially because the “3.0T” (which is actually supercharged) has an excellent reliability record.
Outside of that, the A5 Sportback with the 2.0T sort of reminds me of Ashley Furniture and its wares. It looks handsome and modern and can be had for a tantalizingly low price…but you’ll see in 2-5 years why it was so cheap.
I think you know that a Lexus is likely to serve you better. Really, if you could get a GS 450h, and especially a post-facelift one (2016-later), that would be the sweet spot in terms of performance and reliability, but it’s rarer than hens’ teeth. The base GS 350 won’t impress anyone in terms of acceleration, but you’ll appreciate its ability to do its job well. It feels better-dampened and more-special than the contemporary ES 350. My oft-mentioned friend Austin and his husband have a 2016 GS 350 F Sport, and I can honestly say that it’s similar to how people described the W124 E-Class in the 80s. The materials are top-notch, too, especially for the price. And the little details are lovely: genuine metal knobs that feel like they belong on a Japanese HI-FI stereo, the–as you mentioned–well-crafted analogue gauges, and even the way the HVAC temperature readouts are on a pixelated LCD display that scrolls and animates between settings.
If I were you, I’d go ahead and get a 2016-or-later GS 350. If you don’t need AWD, I’d forgo that, too. On the IS and GS, AWD models come with a 6AT instead of the 8AT, and an entirely different floorpan.
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Regarding LCD instrument clusters versus conventional ones, since you touched on that issue, I do think we’ve reached a turning point. At this stage, even a high-end graphics card and an LCD are probably cheaper than an analog instrument cluster with a small screen, in terms of cost to the automaker.
Right now, automakers are still charging a premium for the full-LCD instrument clusters on some models, but I bet you they actually cost *less* to make. Eventually, we’ll get to the point where LCD instrument clusters are standard on everything…and why shouldn’t they, since they do everything better, objectively, for the average customer? And then, the only people who will get the privilege of beautifully crafted dials are those buying exotic cars like Ferraris or Paganis or truly anachronistic items, like Morgans.
Agreed about the LCD screens. There was a very good reason the Tesla M3 came with just a single center screen: it was cheaper. Elon Musk is a ruthless cost-cutter.
Frankly, I’ve assumed they were cheaper going back some time, and had wondered why someone didn’t just put in a single screen. When the M3 arrived, it was exactly what I had imagined as the simple and cheap solution.
Kyree, what’s you take on the reliability of the 3.0T turbo that supplanted the supercharged one in that A7? The S5 carries it, and pairs it to the ZF 8speed which I’d trust over the VAG DSG in this car. It’s a very nice combo to drive but from my view it’s no less complex than this 2.0 and is a much bigger buy-in.
I’m curious what makes a A5 disposable in comparison to six- and eight-cylinder bigger brothers in the lineup. Are they less reliable and durable, or does it simply not seem worth putting up with any headaches for an entry-level 2.0t Audi vs. a higher end model?
The GS is the runaway winner for long term durability. And it has a nicer interior. It carries two drawbacks for me: the traditional sedan factor is not as useful as the Audi’s 5-door form, and the lovely V6 which is quite close to the A5 in most acceleration metrics at sea level loses some potency at my 4,500 ft elevation. AWD is a likely must…Utah, snow, elevation. Snow tires on an RWD may make it passable but snow tires on AWD are a revelation.
My understanding about the LCD screens as well is that they are cheap to manufacture and that the low cost is the cynical primary impetus behind replacing dials, buttons, and gauges. The premium marketing is a ruse—an intelligent one for the automakers, fooling buyers into believing it is an upscale feature worth paying for, and feeling privileged when it becomes a standard feature in lower priced vehicles (look at H/K’s expanding use of them in lower end cars). I’m personally dreading the day when this is all we have.
“Kyree, what’s you take on the reliability of the 3.0T turbo that supplanted the supercharged one in that A7? The S5 carries it, and pairs it to the ZF 8speed which I’d trust over the VAG DSG in this car.”
The jury is still out on the current 3.0-liter turbo, but it seems to be pretty robust.
“Are they less reliable and durable, or does it simply not seem worth putting up with any headaches for an entry-level 2.0t Audi vs. a higher end model?”
For me, it’s both. They’re competent, but not especially fast or refined, and tend to have powertrain components that are built to a (low) price versus the larger engines. Especially if you take away the (admittedly tantalizing) A5 Sportback body style and are just left with the A4 sedan, I’m not sure I’d buy that over a high-spec Civic.
Ooo, I couldn’t make the leap from this to a Civic, that’s an enormous gulf in performance, refinement, and noise control. No overlap in that Venn diagram for me.
A used Camry XSE V6 or Accord 2.0T would present the bigger challenge to the A5.
And to your point, I suppose that is the weakness of these entry level lux models: lightly used, they can be reasonably cross-shopped against loaded mainstream models whereas that’s more difficult with an A6 or A8.
What a fantastic way to describe our obsession with the automobile! You stated it so well that I had to laugh at myself for being there so many times. It used to be buying those shiny objects and taking them home to the next more. Now it’s turned into the “it’s more fun to hunt” the shiny than to buy them. I spend hours a week searching for something that I don’t need and don’t have any more room for! Thanks for the great description.
As for that car? I do like the looks of them and find most Audi’s very attractive. The interior not so much as I don’t like overly firm seats and this one with the I-pad stuck on top of the dash does nothing for me. If it has to have a screen, let it be well integrated and flush. Otherwise, I will agree with a few of the other comments about my personal and professional experiences with cars such as these. Let’s just say it has helped cement my appreciation for the American brands. Sometimes simple is just better.
Thank you Dan, much appreciated. re: American brands–I’ve had my eye on a Cadillac CTS for some time. Very well-regarded driving dynamics and good looking cars to boot. But man, they’re rare. Haven’t seen one in local inventory yet to try.
I have owned 3 Audis. beginning with a 74 Fox, an 80 4000 and an 86 4000, and ending in 93. I loved them all. well balanced, good handling. but they lost me in the 90s, and not just due to escalating price. All 3 were purchased new.
It’s a shame that they are difficult to trust now. They have a styling language and road manners which I really enjoy.
VAG group styling, inside and out, is, and has been, some of the best out there for some time. Too bad their mechanicals don’t live up to that promise by delivering the goods long term. If one must own a German car, one word: lease.
Tell me about it, it is a frustrating juxtaposition.
I don’t lease. So maybe I don’t Audi either 🙂
Randerson: I would second that.
I work at a dealership now with Mazda and Volvo. This is my 26th year in the business. Most of those years were at a store with Buick, Cadillac, GMC and Honda (just shy of 13 years there). That was in the mid-west and at a time when leasing was not as popular. Most of those buyers wanted to buy and many paid cash. I did 1.5 years with a Chrysler (Dodge and Jeep) store and an additional year with a Cadillac/Range Rover store. The rest where I’m at now.
With that said, I have often advised buyers to lease the Volvo’s as you probably don’t want to be left outside of warranty and free maintenance with them. Don’t get me wrong, I do like many of these import brands and I like Volvo. However, I’ve never seen so many buy-backs untl working here and the amount of engines I’ve seen replaced on 2 or 3 year old vehicles is embarrassing. So yes. Lease if you much drive one of these higher end import brands. Otherwise, you sure can’t go wrong with a Chevy or Buick!
My experience with Volvo sure wasn’t great, on a 2017 XC90 Inscription T6. And I had the benefit of Volvo’s Unlimited-Mile CPO Warranty, too. It was a beautiful car, but I couldn’t stand the damn thing after a couple of months.
Kyree: For the XC90, the 2016 and 2017 years were the worst. They improved the reliability (maybe not Buick like, but way better) by 2018. But I will say this much. I’m often sent on away deliveries at times driving 100+ miles. Many times I will have a “lease return” coming back. I can’t tell you how many 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 XC90’s I’ve driven back with less than 40K on the odo and they just felt loose and like they were 140K vehicles. Just not a feeling that gives me confidence.
I have a 1988 Cadillac Cimarron at home with 62K as well as a 23K 1986 Cadillac Seville that both feel way tighter than these newer XC90’s. The XC60’s are better, but not much.
Externally, this looks very similar to the 2023 Honda Accord.
I cannot decide whether I am jealous of your ability to follow the lure of shiny objects or thankful that I have built up my defenses to such a thing. Your writing makes clear that I have slowly morphed into an Uncle Clem, a literary invention of mine who was the combination of all the old guys of my youth who were relentlessly utilitarian in their view of cars. I know that I would no more walk onto a used car lot and ask to look at one of these than I would to walk into a liquor store and seek out a $300 bottle of bourbon. Or maybe less, because the bourbon is never going to cost me more than the initial purchase price as long as I don’t go driving after I drink it.
I have driven some of those automated manuals recently – and don’t really like them. Their worst feature is in low speed maneuvering when you wait for clutches to engage as you give it throttle, only to find that you were impatient and gave it too much throttle and have to brake to arrest the resulting lunge. Admittedly these experiences have been in larger trucks and not in cars, but still.
I have no advice for you, only my salute and my wish that you find something that makes you happy. Even if it is something only a damnfool would buy. 🙂
“I cannot decide whether I am jealous of your ability to follow the lure of shiny objects or thankful that I have built up my defenses to such a thing.”
I’d go with the latter, certainly. Discipline is enviable. Never be jealous of someone only able or willing to look at these once they’ve depreciated. Terrible position to be in and represents questionable judgement.
“I have no advice for you”
Sure you do. Recommendations on the non-$300 bourbon to drown my sorrows in if I do choose this and get burned by it 🙂
“…and if it does so without becoming an EV I will be fully shocked.” I see what you did there – very clever.
I wouldn’t say that the average automotive enthusiast is the bottom of the ladder, as enthusiasts encompass every type of automotive fan. Everything from the DIY nut and bolt restoration guys, to the classic hot rodder, to the driveway tinkerer, to the guys that buy cars like this Audi when they are new.
I think that what makes the enthusiast an enthusiast, is that they WANT to be enthusiastic about their vehicle. That means that the vehicle has to be “something special”. That takes different forms for different people, some prefer antiques and vintage cars, some guys like performance cars, and some like “fancy cars.”
If you can’t afford to buy a high end car when it’s new, then you’ll have to wait for depreciation to bring them within your grasp. That also means that the car will be older, with years of use and mileage added. It seems that most of the high end European cars will be fairly reliable up to 50-75,000 miles and they are usually still under some kind of warranty. I think that the wisest course would be to buy a car just off the first lease with 25-30,000 miles, a CPO example. This way any calamitous fault with the drive line would usually have made itself known, it has a warranty, but there’s still quite a bit of reliable miles ahead.
Bottom feeders, low price buyers like myself, can find all kinds of old, low priced premium make cars. They certainly are a crapshoot when it comes to reliability, but as was stated, they are “walk away cars.” I had a couple of old Jaguars, one a ’97 XJ6, was something that I daily drove for a year and a half, the other, an ’89 V12 convertible, was something that I occasionally drove while I debated about spending the money that it needed to be be brought back up to par.
I’ve always resented any of my old cars being referred to as “toys,” as I like to drive them. All, except the V12, were cars that only needed reasonable repairs to keep them in serviceable condition. Though my fling with Jags has cured me, and I now stay away from pedigreed brands.
But a relapse is always possible!
V12 Jag, you say? Tell me more.
“I think that what makes the enthusiast an enthusiast, is that they WANT to be enthusiastic about their vehicle. ”
Bingo! And that’s what makes it hurt so much when a vehicle doesn’t live up to our (sometimes unrealistic) expectations. We enthusiasts can tend to anthropomorphize our cars, and on a subconscious level a failure can seem like a personal insult.
Thanks for your perspective Jose. I tried not to make the dig at car enthusiasts too broad, by first noting that I believe the people who design and build vehicles, and the mechanics and tuners/modders who understand them are in a different category altogether–the constructive car folks.
By “enthusiast” I’m referring more to those who treat the cars as consumptive commodities. Spec sheet racing, arguing that 0.02 more lateral Gs obviously makes one car better than another, that European must be superior to Japanese because of quarter mile times, that Japanese must be better than European because of 300,000 mile durability that may or may not be true and won’t be reached anyway because they’ll never keep it that long, image-conscious folks haughtily leasing one luxury ride after the next because it is a lifestyle and status statement, etc.
Perhaps there’s a sports analogy here. On one side are the athletes and coaches and trainers and physical therapists and equipment manufacturers, while on the other are the fans who have never touched the ball in their lives but who will follow every stat and rail against a player they view as underperforming.
5 doors this size are why I’m on my second C5, the reliability of the high mileage previous car is what makes me think my newer one will last ok all the computerised systems still worked as intended on the old car at 20 years and 408,000kms so I’m not expecting problems with the newer one.
My car was an ’89 with 104,000 miles on purchase. Surprisingly enough, the V12 wasn’t the problem. The engines are reputed to be quite long lived, that under ideal conditions will not wear out until well over 200,000 miles. They have a good timing chain/ tensioner system that is also long lived. They can be prone to overheating if the cooling system and it’s numerous connections are not maintained. Overheating can lead to dropped valve seats with the older engines, and a blown head gasket is something that should be avoided at all costs.
The only problem that I had was the coolant temp sender in the head, if that fails, the engine will not fire, it can be tested easily by jumping it’s terminals with a paper clip. It is not an easy engine to work on, and being crammed into the tight confines of the XJS makes it even worse. Once you come to terms with how Jaguar built the engine, you will find that it’s not that hard to service, but everything is buried and more complicated than it needs to be.
Jag suspension pieces don’t last very long, and a thorough rebuild really calls for pulling the front subframe. The springs are probably two and a half times as long as on any other car, and extreme care is called for. I could not find a local Indie shop that wanted to do the job.
The Teves II anti lock brake system is problematic. There were frightening reports on the forum of brakes suddenly losing their power or suddenly locking up causing a loss of control. The ABS brake pump is the culprit. The ABS pump is used as part of the normal braking system, The pump builds and maintains the hydraulic pressure to power the system. They are no longer available as rebuilt units, and the ABS circuit boards will suffer from loose components on the boards but can sometimes be repaired by re-flowing the solder connections.
I just didn’t want to deal with the front suspension after I had changed out the transmission lying on my back in the garage. The ABS brakes were the real issue, I didn’t feel that I could have reliable brakes, although I never experienced any problems except an occasional flashing ABS warning light. Maybe the newer models are better, as my ’97 XJ6 never had any brake issues.
It was a 12 cylinder red convertible, talk about an irresistible shiny object!
I just didn’t love the car enough to commit to fixing it.
FYI. That car does not have the black optics package as stated in the article. The previous owner(s) just threw black wheels and mirrors on it.
Thanks for clarifying that, Alex. Black Optics was listed on the dealership spec list, but I wasn’t familiar enough with Audi to catch it.
No problem! Here’s my 2019 A5 with black optics for reference. Notice the lack of chrome trim on the exterior.
Gorgeous in black. I’d never be able to keep it clean enough to do it justice.
How has it treated you? Any issues? Am I out of my mind about the throttle lag from a stop?
No issues other than a bad SOS module and blown Subwoofer, both of which were covered under warranty. The throttle lag is definitely there from a stop in D mode, not so much in S. That said, the lag is NOT from the turbo (too small), but it’s how the throttle is mapped in the ECU. You can buy a pedal box that will remove the lag. Very affordable and takes seconds to install. I also recommend doing a launch to give you an idea of how quick these things can be off the line. Make sure you’re in Drive and in S mode. Hold down the traction control button for at least 3 seconds. Left foot on brake. Right foot all the way down on accelerator until it clicks. Wait a second, left foot off brake and awayyyyyy you go.
Lots to touch on here. I have the same car, I am a middle aged woman, and have tuned the crap out of it. Midlife crisis maybe? It’s fast, I mean 0-60 in 4 seconds fast. Turbo lag is a thing of the past. Even just a tune on the DL382 added extra life to it that otherwise was lacking. Audi, unlike the Camrys of the world, have so much potential to unlock, you just have to be knowledgeable and willing to do it. The car has been unbelievably reliable, maintenance is expensive which is why I do it myself…for the most part. These are cars built for the tuners and bottom of the barrel enthusiasts like me 🙂 If you want boring and a badge go to the 4 series.
Cris, that is awesome, thank you for sharing. What a beast of a liftback you have now.
BTW, by my rude little definition above, you aren’t a bottom of the barrel enthusiast–that’s me, and the spec sheet racers and the badge snobs. I made sure to include those who are knowledgeable and can maintain and enhance their cars in the upper echelon where they belong 🙂
How many miles do you have on your rocketship, and can you tune an S5 in the same manner?
🙂 All good! I know it’s all tongue in cheek. I have about 60K on the A5. I looked at the S5 and they can be tuned quite extensively as well, but they are more prone to some mechanical issues, faulty rocker arm pins, that I hope Audi will do a recall on.
Did your honeycomb grill mess up your front camera? Every grill I’ve looked at points it up too high and ruins the 360 view.
The one I purchased from EnthusiastsBrands has been great, the only issue I have had is the mount is not deep enough so the front image on the sides is slightly distorted, nothing major though. The 360 camera setup still works great.
The exterior isn’t bad as modern cars go, although its resemblance to the prior generation Mondeo probably isn’t ideal at this price point. However, if that interior is simple, clean, and confident, yikes! I grant that it could be a lot worse, but still.
I assume the touch points are decent-quality materials, but the 50 Shades of Gray color scheme is pretty dreary, that’s a singularly ugly steering wheel, a lot of bits LOOK cheap, and I have many questions about both the durability and collision safety of the center stack touchscreen. But I suppose cars in this class are intended to be disposable lease items, with that sort of kvetching reserved for the secondhand shoppers.
Pictures are limited in what they can tell you. And keep in mind the price point. Little in this car feels cheap, but at a $45K starting price for the model this isn’t going to feel like the more expensive GS and A6.
Park a Mondeo next to this and the resemblance disappears. Proportions and panel fitment are better on the Audi, as they should be given the price delta.
The touchscreen stayed in place during IIHS and NHTSA crash testing. Way bigger worries to have in a crash.
Have a 2016 A5 76,000 miles. I have never spent anything on repairs except an oil shield the got damaged, about $200 .Best Audi I have ever had. Have had 1987 5000 and many A6, The 87 was a maintenance nightmare.
Good to hear, thank you. Despite my misgivings, I wouldn’t hesitate to trust one for the first 76,000 miles.
It’s the next 76 that would worry me. This is a car I’d like to own until about 150K, but this generation hasn’t been around long enough to render a verdict on how they’ll be holding up by then. I’m targeting a max of 50K miles for any that I’d seriously consider buying, but that leaves a lot of future miles in the Unknown Zone.
Thanks for a excellent read, very well written and entertaining. This is easily in the top 10% of anything I’ve read here. I can’t offer you any suggestions on your next purchase, but I look forward to reading your next report. I also have been tempted by the driving dynamics of some VAG products, but have been scared off by the many tales of maintenance and reliability woe. I’m happy with my 15 year old Mazda 3. I don’t know what will replace it, but something with a clutch pedal.