The Peugeot 504 was of course the other relatively popular European diesel in the US (and Europe) along with the Mercedes before the VW Rabbit came along. It offered a somewhat cheaper alternative to the Benz, as well as a superb ride. For 1977, the 504’d diesel engine got an increase in displacement and of course power, now a whopping 71 hp. Its 0-60 time of 21.7 seconds was a lot slower than the new diesel Rabbit (15.8 sec.), but then this 504 was also saddled with the automatique, a three speed unit supplied by ZF, if I’m not mistaken.
Peugeot was stretching the truth with its “50th anniversary of building diesel-powered production cars” claim. In reality, they did install some light truck diesel engines their 402 sedan back in 1939. But then light truck diesels are pretty much the same thing. The first regular series Peugeot diesel passenger car was the 403 starting in 1959, and the 504’s engine was a direct evolution of that.
R&T noted that the Peugeot diesel was louder than the Mercedes or VW diesels. That confirms my own experience; they had a particularly strong clatter, even after warmed up.
When I was a kid, after the energy crisis, to save fuel, in Greece one of my dad’s pals got a Peugeot 403 diesel. I never rode in it.
Diesel week….Peugeot…should’ve seen this coming!
The R&T test is Sept 1977. I think it was around April 1978 when Car & Driver had a “Salute to diesel” issue. They tested a 504 diesel, ALSO an automatic (I’m sure the manual would have tested out so much better) and compared it to a 240D and 300D if I recall correctly. Not sure if the 240D was an auto.
They also featured an Internation Scout diesel, I think it was a Nissan diesel engine (or Mitsubishi perhaps?), a straight six.
I like R/T’s typical understatement—that the 504’s performance was not going “to astound anyone”. You don’t say…
Peugeot never caught on in the US. As a kid, it was certainly my favorite French make–by a WIDE margin. These were honest cars, competent, well-built cars. Better looking than Volvos. Yet Volvo thrived and even Saab caught on, but Peugeot did not.
The Scout did have a Nissan Diesel though in early years they bought it from Chrysler and it was called the CN6-33 for Chrysler Nissan. Eventually Chrysler’s contract to distribute Nissan Diesel products in the US ended and IH bought them directly from Nissan.
Road & Track tested the 4-speed manual 504 diesel in 1973, when it was rated at 9 fewer horsepower. It took 6.5 seconds LONGER to reach 60 mph than this automatic. This was almost a suspiciously strong 504 diesel, considering it wasn’t all that much slower than the early Mercedes-Benz 300D.
$9468. That’s a lot of coin in 1977. I’m quite sure that was more than most Volvo 240s.
It is definitely more than a US spec BMW 320i (I think that was around $7500-8000).
And it was an old car, about the same vintage as the outgoing 68-76 Mercedes sedans, and the Volvo. But in 1968, the 504 was a standout car, at least in my opinion, following another good (perhaps I should say GREAT in this space), the 404.
Perhaps if Peugeot had been willing to take the hit and invest in better dealerships and marketing, Peugeot would have paralleled Volvo in North America in sales and prestige. Peugeot had a diesel first, which would have helped in 1979-80. Also, Pug had a newer car by 1980 (the 505), 5 years before the Volvo 740-760.
I think you are correct. I think the ’75 Volvo 245 I had went for just under 6K new IIRC
The price is pure looney tunes. Car and Driver tested a Cherokee Chief 4-door with $2,300 in options including Quadra Trac, automatic transmission, air-conditioning, power steering, and many, many other real upgrades for a total price of $8,010 in the March 1977 issue. Corvettes had lower base prices and were selling strongly. The Porsche 911S was only about 50% more, and a new Ferrari could be had for only three times the price. A loaded-for-testing Cutlass 442S with a 403 was under seven grand, and mainstream family cars were considerably less. I think the price on the Peugeot was painfully close to that of the 240D, which was on the W123 platform in 1977.
I went to a hoity toity private school during the mid-to-late ’70s, and I can only remember one family there that had Peugeots. This was in a college town with a Peugeot dealership too. There were far more of them in my very middle class neighborhood, driven by people who didn’t demonstrate their wealth in any other manner. I’d have guessed they had pricing parity with mid-sized Buicks and Volvo 240s.
. I think the price on the Peugeot was painfully close to that of the 240D, which was on the W123 platform in 1977.
The 1977 240D started at $11,573
The 1977 504D started at $8,660
Not exactly painfully close. yet in many ways it was quite comparable.
Your comparisons are utterly meaningless; who cross-shopped a 504D with a Corvette, 442, or any of the cars you listed? No one.
You’re missing the point: the kind of folks who wanted a Peugeot or Mercedes diesel bought them because they could well afford them, and it’s what they wanted, for one reason or another.
The price comparisons were based on what was tested in the 1977 car magazines I could find quickly. The point was driving a diesel Peugeot would have constituted taking stealth wealth to new heights, although I knew of a few cases where that wasn’t what was going on with disastrous results. Maybe it was a way for masochists find one another?
$41,495.57 in 2020 according to the BLS CPI machine.
Around here, in this era, it seemed that Peugeot had the highest take rate of any of the diesel offerings. My HS Spanish teacher had two, a sedan for him and a wagon for his wife.
That is a crap ton of money for 99 foot lbs of torque and reliability that makes a Yugo look desirable.
They were very reliable with a maintained cooling system.
Question for Paul since I see him as the Peugeot expert. I have always liked French cars… no uniquely “French”. The one issue I had with this model was the sloped back trunk configuration, when so much more trunk space was to be had with a more subtle drop. Any thoughts?
Thank you.
It was a stylistic fad at the time. Some other cars had it too.
Thing is, the trunk on these was quite large anyway. Even in this review they make a point of the large trunk. It depends on the angle you look at it; that sloping lid doesn’t really give up all that much room.
Pininfarina by the yard…..
The Peugeot diesels were extremely durable/reliable, with an excellent ride and the best seats in the business. I had a very used 505 wagon with the turbo diesel, with who knows how many miles on it, as least 200k, and it never gave me any issues as a daily driver. The difficulty with Peugeots, then and certainly now, is trying to find parts, mostly trim items and secondary mechanicals. The Indenor diesel was used in many applications and rather surprisingly complete new engines are still available, should one be so inclined.
The Peugeot 504 was more successeful in Argentina where they was once used as taxicabs in Buenos Aires as well as local touring cars competition from what I read on these French sites.
https://www.carjager.com/blog/article/peugeot-504-el-yeyo-a-la-conquete-de-largentine.html
https://www.carjager.com/blog/article/peugeot-504-tn-le-mythe-argentin-du-turismo-nacional
Spending time growing up in Ottawa, I used to love seeing the variety of foreign and domestic cars. The 504 was a common sight.
Peugeot 504 (gasoline version) was one of the best european cars at that time. It could easily compete with MB W123. Not to forget the 504 Coupe which as vintage car still costs more than a comparable Mercedes. I had an MB W123/250 back then and a friend of mine could turn circles around me with this 504 Coupe, although he had a smaller engine. But I had the better seats and those nice tank doors.
The only car that could run longer than a Volvo or an MB-123 is a Peugeot. These cars were built like absolute tanks. The interior was very high quality and the cars had the famous Peugeot ride. They had four wheel disks long before Detroit gave up their beloved 9″ drums.
There was one fatal flaw in these cars: the open deck block. This was combined with the magnetically engaged cooling clutch fan. If the motor overheated, it was the death of these things. Every time I sold one I told the (usually female) owner that if the temperature gauge goes anywhere above normal, stop the car and call a tow truck. None did about have the cars came back warped an unreliable.
When the 504 was being sold in North America, buyers treated it exactly like their 1961 Chevrolet with the old 235 six. That means they hardly treated it at all, maybe an oil change or two each year. Even with minimal service, a Chevy will chug along until the body rusts around the motor and transmission.
The main reason we wanted to see every 504 we sold was to make sure the cooling system was up to standard, and especially the fan. We even offered 25% off oil changes to get them in. Most came in on a hook and then immediately into the scrap yard.
And yes, these cars were not cheap, The 504 had a beautiful interior and styling and the 505 was plastic and boring.
Aren’t many engine open deck design? Aren’t open deck designs supposed to have cooling as an advantage when compared to semi and closed deck design? I don’t understand the drawback to the open design in the Peugeot but not other engines. Or was the main issue the cooling system and not inherently the engine? Or, since you mentioned it twice, was the magnetically engaged cooling fan the real culprit?
If the electromagnetic fan clutch was problematic to the point of clashing with American maintenance proclivities, was there not some means of bypassing the clutch so that the fan would just run all the time? Or would this just have resulted in the engine running too cool under normal conditions?
The fan could be made to run continuously but this made the car louder and also sapped some needed horsepower. Your money and effort was better spent keeping the cooling system in tip top shape
When I had my ’71 gas 504 I subscribed to the Peugeot owners’ newsletter published by Dr. Marvin Needler in Indianapolis.
Brian Holm in Vermont, from whom I bought quite a few parts, wrote for the newsletter fairly often. He once said that on early US-market 504 diesels, the temperature gauge doubled as an inclinometer!
The noise and smell of my childhood! We had a Diesel 504 when I was born, though it was the French base model with the 2.1 litre engine, live axle and a 4-on-the-tree rather than the automatic.
Another question for Paul – were these ever sold in the US with 4-on-the-tree or were they all floor shift?
I believe ’71 was the last year for 4 on the tree in the US. My ’71 gas 504, mentioned earlier, had 4 on the tree. I had earlier driven, and passed on, a ’72 gas 504 with 4 on the floor. I don’t know if they sold the diesel in the US during MY 1971.
Was most probably an LD, which was technically a 404 Diesel, I had one for 250000 kilometers a red estate as my company car, it did 120 km, with or without load and with or without tandem axle trailer.
I cried when it was replaced by an Opel Rekord 2.3 Diesel estate.
The Opel was by far not the workhorse the Peugeot was.
But Opel was a holy name here in Holland Opel was king.
The Rekord had lousy brakes, a rough running Diesel engine and a rear diff not half the size of the 504, that is why the Opel’s diff would spit out its bearings quite reguarly and the diff would make ” Morris Minor ” diff noises. (Like there’s a cat caught in the back)
The accident rate went dramatically up with Opels, many a collegue ended up crashing when pulling a trailer, the Peugeot was smooth and stable, the Opels simply could not handle a trailer and you always had to be vigilent.
Not a relaxed car when you have to chase ships all over Europe !
I have to admit Peugeot Diesels are holy to me, my dad was one of the first people who had a 403 Diesel in Holland, he traded it in for a 190 Mercedes heckflosse Diesel to return to Peugeot within a year. Sixties Peugeots were amomg the most capable cars around, never mind the poor plastics used for the 403! After the 403 came flock of 404 Diesels.
These were the only other diesel car to Mercedes in Oz at the time. They sold well enough to earnest beardy types who could provide a most lengthy and crushingly dull assessment of the Pug’s manifold virtues, if one were foolish enough to enquire.
Most of what they said was tosh. Horse and courses: in this far-flung land, all of the toughness and reliability-in-the-rough stuff was better met by a Holden (or local Ford or Chrysler). Parts everywhere, stone-age simple, good-enough economy, able to reach 200k miles if looked after a bit. These were exotic, and mildly fussy (the temp did have to be monitored). Worse, diesel fuel here was some ill-refined road tar, the lowest grade above an actual tarmac, I reckon, so diesel Mercs and Pugs ran low on power and smoked almost as much as most people did back then. 40mpg just wasn’t worth the sloth and the stink, especially at the price.
Like Mercs, many went to wealthy farmers, who got their diesel cheap for farm use.
The 504 is an excellent machine, and an oiler in France would make plenty of sense, but not too much elsewhere.
I’ve driven one just once. It rattled the car like a jackhammer, it was noisy as one, and had the about the same level of acceleration.
I am rather amazed at the performance shown in this US one. Autocar in the UK tested a 240D auto in about ’79, and with similar weight and power and an extra gear, it took 27 seconds to 60mph.
Had an ’81 504 Diesel wagon Automatique for a couple of years in the ’80s. A great car: dependable, safe, so comfortable, economical, capacious for hauling, but as slow as a glacier; the latter feature we just couldn’t get used to, even though we knew it going in. Nothing rides as nicely as the better French cars.
That diesel Indenor engine was undestroyable. Used also in the 403, 404 and 505.
One of the best diesel engines with old Mercedes and the XUD also made by Peugeot.