color photos by PN
Having finished reading the Lamborghini Espada review in the July 1969 Road & Track, I flipped back to the other review, of a 1969 Pontiac Grand Prix. At first, I made no obvious connection between the two. But then it hit me: they both had 390 hp, did the 1/4 mile in 15.0 seconds, had almost identical 0-60 times, got 11 mpg, handled quite well, and offered reasonably comfortable accommodations for four adults. They both had the boldest and best styling in their respective continents. They were both gran turisimos, in the true sense of the word.
So why didn’t Road & Track see the obvious similarities? Too put off by the fact that the GP cost one quarter of what the Espada cost? And even though it acquitted itself quite superbly, the best they can come up with in the title is “Even Henry Manney’s wife says it isn’t bad at all” (“who likes Italian machinery”)?
The GP’s pointy schnoz did not go over well with Manney (and the R&T staff). “Does it really need to look like a modernized Gregoire?” Really? A Gregoire? And how many readers know what he’s talking about? Typical car snob.
But then if you’ve been reading CC, you’d know what he was referring to.
I have to assume it has to the 1955 Gregoire Sport Cabriolet, which we covered here. It does have a mighty long front overhang like the GP, but I don’t exactly see the resemblance otherwise. Oh well…don’t second guess Henry Manney.
Manney wasn’t too wild about the interior “as the driver sits down in a sort of black morocco foxhole peering out through a slit at a log long hood with a ridge in the middle. The instruments peek out in the middle between the two bucket seats in a rather alarming manner, confidently showing the 140 mph speedo and the 8000 rpm tachometer to the driver alone…”
Well, yes, it’s true that the hood on these was absurdly long. It was a point of pride at the time, the first of its kind. Meaning a GM A-Body with a substantially lengthened front end; DeLorean had the 112″ wb Tempest/LeMans coupe stretched all the way to 118 inches, and lengthened the nose even further. It was the first A-Special coupe, and it would soon spawn a host of imitations, starting with the Monte Carlo in 1970.
Ford and Iacocca get a lot of credit for the Mustang, which spawned the pony cars. But Lee never saw the ’69 GP coming, and it turned into a monster category for almost two decades that completely dwarfed the Mustang and pony cars. Ford was caught sleeping for a change. The ’69 GP was the pioneer of the single biggest new class of American cars (affordable PLC) until the rise of the SUV and pickup truck. And it was DeLorean’s doing.
Here’s a line you don’t hear too often about American cars of the time: “The whole car exuded an air of solidity and quality—rather surprising coming from GM which pioneered the Stovebolt—and it seemed if someone had really taken care of assembly…” How does “Stovebolt” figure into this? The original 1929-1936 Chevy six was called that because of some slotted head cylinder bolts that looked similar to ones commonly used on stoves. And it was a perfectly fine engine in its time, the first six in the low price category. More snobbishness. Is that what made Manney’s reputation?
The GP’s elegant door handles got the love that they deserved, and even were referred to as “Italian recessed type”.
Even more elegant than the ones on the Espada?
The GP’s bucket seats also came in for high praise: “They were good and hard—the only wear for long trips—and fit my ancient back almost as well as more expensive European ones”.
R&T’s Model J (not the SJ) GP had the optional 390 (gross) hp 428 engine, teamed up with the THM automatic and a 3.55;1 rear axle as well as an optional handling package. The result: “…the longer we drove it the better we liked it—unlike most road test offerings—and even my hypercritical wife (who likes Italian machinery) declared it wasn’t bad at all”. High praise indeed.
“The reassuring manner of the torquey V8, the accurate steering, the gobs of power away from the lights, and the comparatively firm ride made her realize how far the American passenger car has come (in admittedly a few examples) in just a few years.”
This is really the essence of the review, and a key take-away: it was very true that certain American cars had finally achieved a level of all-round balance, of performance, ride, handling, steering and braking that had simply not existed ever before. And the GP was one of the first, and as good as it got at the time. And again, that has to be chalked up largely to John DeLorean, who started down this road some years earlier with the GTO, which really was a pioneer, if not yet all the way there.
Of course it wasn’t just DeLorean and Pontiac; GM decided that building better all-round cars was going to be essential, for several reasons, including handling safety in difficult situations, which had been an issue with their cars earlier in the decade, with tine tires and feeble drum brakes and floppy handling. The American car had finally grown up, thanks to the competition from Europe as well as social and political pressure.
Manney took the GP up to past 110 mph, and noted that “directional stability was excellent and produced no white knuckles”. Top speed was calculated at 129 mph, but not observed.
Admittedly, braking was not stellar, in terms of some instability during panic stops from 80, but fade was minimal, and actual braking power substantially exceeded that of the four-wheel disc braked Espada, with a .81 G force in the stop from 80 compared to .75 for the Espada. The GP got a “good” rating for control, while the Espada only rated a “fair”.
Manney took the GP out on the road course, and “enjoyed myself tremendously…there is no bobbing, weaving, axle hop, sideways judder, or any other monkey business; you can forget the steering wheel to a great degree and push the machine in and out with great gobs of smooth power. Quel thrill.”
The summation: “…it is a very competent GT car for five people with only considerable weight and a few touches like tires standing between it and really high rank…It is a helluva better GT car than some celebrated ones I have driven.” (the Espada?)
So there it is; America’s true GT car. In celebrated company indeed.
My next door neighbor brought one of these home, slick top in Verdoro green. All of us neighborhood car crazy boys were instantly taken by it! Although I had a few driving lessons in a same colored 68 GP, this one changed everything; I never got a chance to drive one of these, though. *SIGH*. 🙂
I would have connected the “Gregoire” comment to the Zephyr and Continental, but interpretations vary.
I am looking at the x-ray view and have to wonder if they pushed the engine back any, and if it helped handling if they did. It looks a little further back of the axle line than some.
It looks that way because the front “axle” was mover forward. In this car and the later Chevrolet Monte Carlo, there is a huge amount of space between engine and radiator.
Plug #1 right in line with the front spindle. It’s how all the GM “A” bodies came from the factory, and how the racing scrutineers checked for illegal engine setback.
Sorry, left out one word: “NOT.” Also committed a spelling error!
And, can’t edit using my cellphone, on which I can…not…stay…signed…in!!!
Those cars were styled by Eugene “Bob” Gregorie; different spelling. I can see the connection to the original Continental in terms of its long hood proportions, but I’m sure the author would have referred to that car specifically, as all of Gregorie’s other cars didn’t have that.
Not to rag on Manney further, but he was a bit of a snob, and thus dropping “Gregoire”, a car that was very obscure to Americans, would fit right in, regardless of whether it was a good comparison or not.
One of the many highlights of ’69 was this car. My 8th grade teacher had one in what must have been rare Carousel Red and he was also married to an ex-Playboy bunny. Carousel Red being the original color of the also ’69 GTO Judge. Not a good color for the GP but to my 8th grade eyes it was perfect with Parchment interior. GP’s looked the best in Verdoro Green or Burgundy. This car definitely was a milestone.
I like how you inserted the modern picture into the original Road and Track article, Paul. What’s with Manney’s Stovebolt comment? That doesn’t even make sense. 🙂 One minor note: a 428 Grand Prix would have had a Turbo 400, not a Turbo 350.
11mpg with gas at $2/gallon in today’s dollars. Buyers obviously thought 472 lb-ft was worth it.
The optional 428 engine was pretty rare. Most had the standard 400 with 350 hp, still not too bad. Fuel economy with the 400 was in the 12-14 mpg range.
I had long thought the GP had a 116″ wheelbase, same as the four-door As and El Camino, just with the extra stretch reallocated from rear legroom to hood length (which is exactly what the Monte Carlo was a year later). After independently confirming it was indeed 118″ I can only wonder how hard John Z. had to fight for those extra two inches of totally wasted space.
Ironic since if it were forced to ride the same 112″ span as the regular A-body coupes it would’ve been far better liked by R&T’s staff. Much more of what Detroit did right with literally less of what it did wrong, and a better power-to-weight ratio to boot.
And even as a snagged-one-of-the-last-manual-Honda-Fits space-utilization fan, I have to admit that without the ridiculong hood the GP wouldn’t have sold nearly as well in ’69 and probably would’ve been one of those well-kept car-guy secrets.
Henry N. Manney was probably my favorite author when I was a 12 year old (obsessive) R&T reader but yes, he was a bit of a snob. Or at least wanted to come across that way, as an American LJK Setright. Though the aside about his apparently owning a Mustang surprises me, as I just assumed he drove a Peugeot or a Fiat. I was never a PLC fan, but this car looks more appealing now from a 50 year vantage point. By the way, R&T was pretty impressed with the ‘68 A Bodies in the form of a Chevelle road test, and again with the Colonnades a few years later. Like most “enthusiast” car magazines of the time, they pretty much ignored Ford and Mopar except for the Pony cars.
Agreed on Manney trying a bit too hard to be the American Setright. But yes, he was a good writer, able to describe things to create vivid impressions.
He does mention a Dodge R/T in the opening: “I remember how the Dodge R/T turned out to be interesting some time back.”
In circle track racing (not exactly a mainstream test, I know), the GM “A” bodies were a really solid total package, as to handling and braking (the powertrains were relatively cheap and simple to maintain, and were solid as well). On paper, the four link rear with big rubber bushings and a bit of bind during suspension travel, along with front upper a-arm geometry that made no sense for good handling, combined with a flexy, lightweight and minimal perimeter frame, suggested disaster. In reality, it all worked very well together, and the sum of the whole was much greater than the hinky individual parts. One would guess that GM spent a lot of time and effort testing and working things out, to get to the point where this automotive bumblebee didn’t know it wasn’t supposed to be able to fly. Keep in mind, too, that this assemblage of parts pushed around over 4,000 pounds on old-school tire technology and sizes, and the technical accomplishment here is extraordinary.
It was not that these cars were nimble at all, but they could be reliably put into drifts or high speed turns, steering mostly with throttle inputs, with minor steering wheel adjustments and touches to the brake pedal, and the results were astounding. As long as the turns were big, fast, and deliberate, where you told the car ahead of time what you planned to do. One didn’t get to carve up an autocross course very easily with one of these. The second generation Camaro and Firebird carried on in this tradition, with the late ’70s Trans Am as probably the apex of the GM biggish car good handling brigade.
I was also about 12 years old when I started obsessively reading R&T. (This was in the 1980s, when my father gave me a 20-year collection of older R&T’s, which I still have.) And I didn’t particularly like Manney’s articles — I remember thinking that they seemed to be like reading a string of inside jokes that I didn’t understand.
Part of my disinterest in Manney’s articles may be that he wrote mostly about racing, which didn’t interest me much, but even with articles like this, I just never warmed up to his style (though I did enjoy reading this article more than I probably did 30 years ago). Meanwhile, I’ve always loved Setright’s writing – don’t know why I liked one and not the other.
Anyway, I presume for R&T’s core readership of European sports car enthusiasts, this article was deeply amusing, and overall very positive. After all, Manney actually enjoyed driving a domestic car! And I bet that if one were to ask a typical R&T subscriber in 1969 what American car they’d most like to buy, the Grand Prix would be the #1 response.
I’m not sure if I’ve read stuff by Manney before or not, but this here is plain poor. It reads like the brayings of some monied bar boor. Quite off-putting. LJK Setright could be pretty damn obtuse, but his work well bears re-reading to this day: unlike this waffle, it bears the hallmark of good writing which is that it is not much affected by the passing of time.
As an aside, I’m quietly astounded by Manney’s use of the phrase “…shoots through like a Bondi tram.” Now that IS snobbery, as it says not only that he’s been to Sydney but is so above things that his readers will undoubtedly know the meaning of an obscure Australian phrase about a tram service whose tracks were pulled up ten years before this article was written! (For clarity, the Bondi tram ran from just near the Harbour Bridge about 6 miles to Bondi Beach on the Pacific Ocean, and “shoots through” is a now-outdated Australian phrase that means to disappear or run away in a hurry).
“…being the Italian recessed type that are levered out by a touch on the back end. (I”ll drink to that. – Ed.)” Priceless.
+1
First windshield-embedded antenna, wan’t it?
Maybe integral regulator alternator too?
And side-terminal battery, also! Very impressive 0-60 time for such a heavy car!
I have never driven a GP of this generation, but did have a fair amount of Pontiac wheel time in my Grandma’s 69 Catalina and in my Mom’s 74 Luxury LeMans. My experience was that the 69 was a moderately better handler than my 67 Ford Galaxie 500. It was a plain version, surely standard suspension, and had substantially faster steering (though I didn’t like the GM-typical high column/low seat combo). The LeMans, while newer, benefitted from sway bars front and rear and had to have been one of the best handling decent sized American cars built at the time. I put that one through a whole lot and pushed it hard. It was one flat-cornering car, let down by low engine output, bias ply tires and 4 wheel drum brakes. Which probably kept me alive, truth told.
As far ahead as Chrysler’s suspension designs were in the late 50s, that’s how far ahead GMs had become by the mid 70s, particularly the versions with sway bars.
Hate to be that guy, but all A-Bodies had front discs standard since ’73. Also, I’m surprised it had bias tire since ’74 was the first year they ballyhooed their “GM Spec” radial tires and Pontiac’s “Radial Tuned Suspension”. Especially if that car was already equipped with a factory handling package.
Too bad your mom didn’t pony up for the Grand-Am.
I think you are right on the brakes. The Radial Tuned Suspension (with the dash label, even) was optional in 74. She bought mid summer, so very late in the model year and supplies were thin – Cutlass had been her first choice, but there were none to be had. It came down to one brand new with the RTS but no air and another with bias plys and air that had been a driver’s ed car for the school system earlier in the summer. Air trumped radial tires 10 times out of 10. 🙂
Many years ago, my out-of-state uncle wanted to sell his Grand Prix because he was getting too old to drive it. He offered me first dibs. I turned it down, because I already had my ’72 Mercedes and ’58 Cadillac. The Caddy was parked at a neighbor’s house because I was still living at home and our driveway was one lane and we had other cars in the family. My dad would not have wanted that big boat Pontiac taking up all that room.
That’s too bad, because it sounds like the Grand Prix was a great car underneath the sporty/debonair looks. And I could have gotten it for a low, discount price I’m sure. But that’s the trouble the old car enthusiast faces: there are so many great cars you want to try out and own, but few of us have the wealth and resources of Jay Leno!
(Photo is of my late uncle John VanderSande’s car.)
Incidentally, does anyone know what is the origin of this Pontiac arrowhead logo that’s used at the beginning of the Road & Track article?
I don’t remember seeing this before, and to satisfy my curiosity, I’ve been looking through 1960s Pontiac brochures and haven’t come across anything quite like it. Even ads for Grand Prixs of this vintage show the more familiar simplified arrowhead logo (just an arrowhead and star).
Maybe I’m missing something obvious — but I figured I’d ask here since it’s been gnawing at me this morning.
My guess is that with the times a changin’ it was a more subtle way to continue to give a nod to Pontiac’s “Indian” legacy while getting more PC.
Eric, I realized that my reply wasn’t addressing the question that you posted, so I chose to delete it.
Since the delete didn’t happen…
If you go back further the arrowhead has been around a long time. Around circa ’60 the top was not a “V” so much as later. Even earlier the top was more “shield like” two “valleys,” if you will.
Looks like this arrowhead design was used in 1963 only (as far as I can tell right now). Below is a copy of a 1963 Owners Manual, but the arrowhead appeared on some cars that year too. It appears to me that this was a ’63 Only design. I’ve never noticed it before.
Odd, then, that Road & Track would lead off a 1969 Grand Prix test with this logo. I sure didn’t see any uses of it after 1963. Maybe they had an old Pontiac press release from six years earlier lying around the office and copied the image from it?
One day, I had 14 years old to believe that the RT Hemi or the GT Cobra Jet were the supreme machines on the world.
But then I reached 24 years old and began to criticize my younger side and understood that my kind of car is the personal luxury, land yatch. Of course with that massive standard 7-litre fuel-detonator V8 engine.
See that stunningly polite machine with whitewall cookies in sport wheels? It’s me. I may wear a suit or a casual outfit, but I’ll keep the big hair, and my converse tennis, so my young lady with her nice casual and very short dress with a cozy and warm pullover. Sounds a bit snobbish?
I’m just not following the SS Yenko kids having sex in the back seat, soaking the entire carpet and making a mess in the drive-in with their medium-sized pony shitboxes. That amount of power and handling takes the “snobbish” couple home quicker than theirs.
See the difference? The Grand Prix is a car for young gentlemans and young ladies, but not the classical ones restrained by their families. Let the chads and stacys prance around in those sporty machines. If you think you lived double the age you have, the Grand Prix suits your mind. A meet between Lana Del Rey and Julian Casablancas.
I suspect that Mr. Manney was thinking of the older “Hotchkiss Gregorie” moreso than the Sport Cabriolet you have pictured.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-european/automotive-history-three-french-deadly-sins-part-1-the-hotchkiss-gregoire/
Perhaps he was referencing this car?
http://carstylecritic.blogspot.com/2018/05/hotchkiss-gregoire-cars-seen-in-florida.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_Grégoire
Edit: looks like Schurkey found and posted the same while I had the commenting window open.
Agreed. I rather forgot about those, but the similarity is quite apparent.
Nice to see you here Michael. It’s been a long time…
I vaguely remember these ads, which played up the hood length in both visuals and text (“over six feet, we hasten to add”). Artwork sorta echoes today’s lead photo:
Pontiac did it right with the GP. Monte Carlos have elegant under stated style but make mine a 1971 shark tail GP in triple black. Dig that wrap around dash! Still miss my 77 even if it had the 301 and a slight brougham like flavor.
Siri, show me what a review of the 1969 Grand Prix written by Mr. Burns would look like …
I think it’s in DeLorean’s “On a Clear Day You Can See GM”, where I read that allowing Chevrolet the Monte Carlo was necessary to get the go-ahead for the Grand Prix.
The line drawing on the specification page clearly illustrates the cars appeal. Look at how far forward the front wheels are in front of the cowl. This gives the car the proper Classic proportions. In a true classic from the 1930’s, the front axle is located under the radiator and front cross member. The closer a car can mimic this, the better it looks. Intuitively. The ’71 Buick Riviera had it’s wheel base increased two inches, the front wheels were moved up two inches, according to company literature. The original Mustang also had the proper wheel positioning. This is what saves the Mark V, though the front overhang is still a bit too long. These G.P.s had an enormous cache when they debuted in 1969. My Aunt bought one and it gathered attention like a movie star,
The front looks like it should be a battering ram.
Do I recall correctly, this car was offered with a manual transmission?
Well, one not-inconsiderable gulf between the Lambo and the Poncho is that the Espada was a flawed attempt to productionize one of the most elegant show cars ever made, and, if showy, elegant, whereas this was a successful attempt to productionize the Car As Crass Object. My, what a big chromey nose you have Mr Pontiac, your donk must be immense, your appetites immense and your Prix very Grand indeed.
That said, in the odd ways of things, I do quite like it. (Perhaps I have Issues). Possibly that’s because I know things of excess were about to get a great, great deal Broughammy worse.
Hey, Lin, yes they were available with a manual transmission in that generation (69-72), but ‘the option was dropped sometime during the ’71 model year. I own a ’70 Model J with the 350hp 400 and 3spd manual, one of 172 . There were only a total of 500 manual trans ( or Straight-Drive, as they say in the South) Grand Prix built for 1970 : 400/3spd, 400/4spd and 455/4spd. I finally talked Tommy out of this one, after quietly hounding him since the mid-eighties.
I really love these cars. I was given a slick-top ’69 Model J by an older gearhead cousin when i was just 14. I was Heartbroken when Mama moved us to NC 2yrs later (1982) and made me leave that car in that garage, in Detroit. I vowed that one day, I’d have another one. And, 4yrs. ago, thank God I got one ! It’s SUCH a great driving/riding/handling car. It’s a 1-of-172 400/3spd car that the previous owner installed a 421 HO Tri-Power from a ’65 Grand Prix. I plan to drive it back to Detroit next year and cruise up and down Woodward…. just like i planned to do as a teenager. 😃
So is that a column shift or floor shift? Either way, a rare beast indeed.
Hey, Paul. Floor shifted, with a factory Hurst shifter with a walnut shift knob. It uses the same basic console body as an automatic GP, but the entire metal Top Plate is different, in that the ashtray on the manual trans cars is actually located to the rear of the shifter instead of in front of it. And it’s also a completely different ashtray than the automatic version. And OF COURSE, it’s not being reproduced. I have it, thank God. 😊
So I wonder if there was a column shift for the base version which included bench seat, like the one I photographed here. I can’t seem to find a ’69 GP brochure online.
I also got the original numbers-matching 400 (that Tommy pulled out at 253,000 miles ( ! ). The car has ( based on That info. from him ) 346,000 miles on it now. Other than a rusty trunk lid and channel and a hole in the driver’s door, is pretty solid !
Paul, even the base GP had buckets and console with floor shifter as Standard equipment : the bench seat and column shifter was actually a no-cost option. One thing to note, though : the ‘Standard ‘ drivetrain on a ’69 and ’70 GP was the 350hp 400 and 3spd manual transmission. Thing is, most dealers back then would stock mostly automatics. Seeing as how the GP was a personal luxury coupe, I guess they figured the automatics would sell more (and be more profitable). And production-wise, I guess they were right.
Maybe there weren’t column-shifted 3spd GPs because they didn’t fit John Delorean’s idea of his downsized (mid-size) personal luxury coupe. Pontiacs were a Step-Up division from Chevrolet in the GM world. And, Delorean was into sports cars and performance. I HAVE seen a factory column-shifted 3spd in a 70-72 Monte Carlo, though. Just Sayin’ .
I have to believe these had some influence on the Mark IV. There are just too many similarities.