(The pictures used in this post are taken from Google images)
We had moved to a new home in the New Jersey countryside. My wife was good enough to sacrifice her career to stay home with our son and the family which we were planning to grow. The area we moved to is ideal for raising a family, and many others in the community had the same idea. As a result, playgrounds, libraries, and parks and such are full of stay-at-home parents during the week. In the meantime, our son Samuel was growing quickly, and so was our need for a vehicle to haul things around with us as he learned to walk and get around. This led me to begin to think about my wife’s daily driver and its continued suitability for this task. You will recall that at this time, she was using my 91 Caprice sedan for transporting Sam around, a task for which it had been more than adequate up to this point. However, it was beginning to feel tired and its trunk, huge as it is, could barely hold Sam’s Cozy Coupe ride on car. At the park, all the other parents had minivans, CUVs, SUVs etc., while my wife pulled in with a sedan that looked like a police cruiser! While the car was pretty cool, it was becoming obvious that Sam and his parents were beginning to outgrow it.
I had recently acquired my dream car (last week’s COAL), and I wanted her to have something nice as well. Accordingly, I found a very clean, very nice looking 1994 Dodge Grand Caravan at a small used car lot. I drove there with my wife, and it looked just as nice as it did in the pictures online. I had my wife drive it and she really liked how it drove. The only problem was that the A/C was inoperative. They were selling the van for $2,500. I counter-offered $1,800. They said $2,300. I told them $2,000 but they had to fix the A/C. They said fine, but the $2,000 would not include a warranty.
A week later they called and said that the A/C was repaired. We went over there and sure enough, ice cold A/C. We took it for one more spin, imagining the many road trips we would take it on. Everything seemed copacetic, so we gave them the money and drove off with our first minivan.
The distance from the used car lot to our home was about 30 miles. I drove the Caprice wagon and my wife followed in the minivan. Three quarters of the way home, I stopped for gas. When I got out of the car, I heard it: a tapping sound in the distance. I looked up and saw that the tapping sound was coming from our new minivan. I immediately realized I had turned down the warranty in exchange for a drop in the price…in essence, I had agreed to purchase the vehicle as-is! We immediately took it to my mechanic to face the music. After changing the plugs, as well as several bottles of Lucas Oil Treatment, the tapping was silenced and the van ran smoothly. This began our very short honeymoon period with our minivan.
After owning this thing for a few weeks, I began to understand why they were so popular. It was very easy to strap our toddler into his car seat with minimal bending and back strain. We also found that we could easily get to him if we needed to without exiting the vehicle. The one thing that really impressed me was its ability to hold eight passengers, and still have plenty of room for cargo. My wagon had room for six passengers and cargo, or eight passengers and almost no cargo. This feature really impressed me, which is what led me to purchase my next vehicle.
One thing I found very interesting is that the controls and driver ergonomics were very similar to my Plymouth Acclaim and Chrysler New Yorker. I found out that besides being based on the venerable K car, the van also shared its powertrain with the New Yorker.
Its first long trip was to a wedding in Maryland. My wife volunteered to do the driving. I enjoyed having the third row to myself–lots of room to spread out plus the ability to get to the front seat if I had to. The van had dual A/C so I had my own personal vent blowing cold air in my face on a summer afternoon….I was sold. I was even considering buying a minivan for myself.
Unfortunately, the trip home from Maryland was not so pleasant. Everything was fine until the Check Gauges light came on. This alerted us to an overheating situation. We pulled over, I checked under the hood, there was coolant loss, but it was not obvious where it was coming from. All the hoses I could see looked intact. The radiator seemed fine, and it did not look like it was a water pump issue. So, I bought two gallons of coolant, and we limped home…having to fill the recovery tank once. Apparently there was a tiny hose underneath that I missed that was responsible for the problem.
Shortly after that incident, we were driving home from somewhere and we heard a ringing noise that sounded like a cross between an old telephone and an old fashioned cash register. It was a peculiar sound; not an electronic chime, but a mechanical metallic ringing. This was followed by loud revving noises from the engine. We realized that the van was not shifting out of low gear. The infamous ultradrive transmission had gone into limp mode. Shutting down and restarting the vehicle solved the problem. After that, the problem would reappear at random. The only warning we would get would be the ringing sound that always preceded the vehicle going into limp mode. Taking it to the mechanic was futile. There were no trouble codes stored in the computer, and of course, the problem could not be replicated. Again, restarting the van fixed it for a while, but this was not always practical or safe to do, especially if it happened on a crowded highway. It was really disappointing, because the van was on the cusp of being perfect for us in terms of its usefulness and practicality, and it was pretty fun to drive when it worked. In addition, we really liked the elevated driving position.
My wife used it as a daily driver for about four months. We began to avoid using it on long trips because we were afraid that it would go into limp mode at an inopportune moment. One day, my wife and son got into the car and it made a horrible grinding sound from the front end. The sound was not coming from the brakes or the engine, but it sounded like something was horribly broken. The sound was deafening once the car got to around 10 mph. In addition, the steering was sluggish and there seemed to be what felt like interference when I tried to steer. A trip to the mechanic confirmed that the front suspension and steering were facing imminent failure and as usual, the repair would cost more than what the vehicle was worth. All this a week after I had already sold the previous vehicle,the reliable Caprice sedan. A few weeks ago, Brendan Saur did a write up on a 94 Caravan that was nearly identical to ours. I was very happy (and a little jealous) when I skimmed through the comments to see that our experience was not typical and for the most part, folks found them practical and reliable.
Because I had gotten her into this and she needed a reliable car, I reluctantly gave my wife my treasured Caprice wagon and looked for something else for myself.
My experience with the van added two more requirements to my car search:
1) The ability to carry a third row of passengers and cargo
2) Elevated seating position/high ground clearance
I found just the thing. Unfortunately, things were about to go from bad to worse…..much, much worse. Stay tuned…
I read several accounts about the transmissions in Chrysler minivans. As bad as Honda automatic transmissions are in 2000-2004 Hondas, Chrysler minivan transmissions are worse. It’s a shame, as otherwise these are great vehicles.
I am a confirmed mini van hater. I like station wagons. RWD station wagons. Since there are no longer many of those out there new enough to be considered reliable, I would reluctantly go with some type of RWD SUV. Mini vans, aside from being ugly (to me) seem to be trouble prone, and they are almost impossible to work on, because you can’t get to anything. And modern ones are anything but mini.
My next two COALs address these points (and vehicles). Tune in next week, and the week after.
Ugh…changing an alternator on one of these was almost comical!
I dislike minivans, but I dislike SUVs even more when driven by people who should be driving a minivan. When you need to haul people and stuff around, and don’t intend to go off-road, tackle the wllderness, or pull a trailer, a minivan is the right tool for the job. A full-size SUV will do the same thing, but costs more to purchase and costs more to fuel the thirstier engine.
When my wife and I start a family (assuming we are so lucky), I plan to get a wagon. Hopefully that will be enough to carry around one child and all the associated “stuff”. But if we decide to have more than one, or if the modern child requires so much “stuff” that a wagon is not a practical tool, then I’ll “man up” and buy a minivan. I don’t want to, I’ve never liked them, and I wouldn’t be happy about it, but you have to select the right tool for the job.
From what I see on the road, most kids today require video screens so they can watch cartoons or whatever in the back seat. Wasn’t necessary when I was a kid, I rode in whatever my parents had. To me, the station wagon is the best people mover ever designed, and you could fold the seats down and carry other stuff. A minivan does serve the same purpose, but they are ugly, FWD, and a real PITA to work on compared to a wagon. Most don’t seem to last nearly as long either. And there are certain car based SUVs that get about the same mpg as a minivan. And probably aren’t really any bigger. I remember way back around 2000, when a coworker bought a brand new Dodge Grand Caravan. I told him he should have bought a Durango instead. The price and mileage weren’t that different.
The only “minivans” if that’s what they were, that I ever found attractive, were the first generation Chevy Lumina and Pontiac Trans Sport.
If you’re looking for something easy to work on, you want something based on a full ize pickup, like a chevy suburban or tahoe. That also happens to be what lasts longest too. gas mileage is the pits though.
I agree; IM chipping away at restoring my sons 1992 Cadillac Brougham (he passed away a year ago) as we speak it is in garsge getting new idler arm , alignment and other related parts; I have sunk $1500 into the car so far tires, battery, brakes, wipers, new motor for auto window, oil change and seat belt issues; now tackling more mech issues b4 I put much into the body; its a great car rides like a dream and upon completion will get what I can for my 2006 dodge caravan and just drive the Caddy; I feel like I’m riding around with Brian when I drive this great old vehicle
Ivana, so sorry about your son. I love that generation of Cadillac with the composite headlights right before the restyle
Thank you Fred
I love these cars; when I had my taxi business I had three of them actually kept one ; drive it every day
I went through two minivans: a ’94 Ford Aerostar and a 2003 Ford Windstar. Before buying either I did extensive research trying to avoid the worst rather than finding the best. I think that approach worked for me: I avoided catastrophic failures with both of them. I stayed clear of the Chrysler products because of the transmission issues that went along with them. The Ford Windstar was also known for transmission trouble but the 2003 received an improved version.
Then they made the Freestar/Monterey: a Windstar with bigger engine and weaker transmission! Good grieve, I narrowly avoided the Monterey, same price, less equipment, fewer miles. I took the Windstar because I liked the driver centric dashboard better. It reminded me of BMW layouts.
Jerseyfred, $2000 for 4 or 5 months of use is a real downer. I thought the $2000 per year for the Windstar was high. I used to think I could have had a BMW 3 series for that money.
Wait till you see next week…$2,000 pales in comparison (try five times that)….I should’ve cut my losses…don’t know what came over me.
I am choking! —help!!
Yep…I choked while I was writing it…probably the stupidest decision I have ever made…wait till you see it.
Sooooo, we will be going from “ringing in the ears” to “voices in the head”?
I am taking a deep breath and stock up on Valium.
Should try a Toyota Sienna . I think they’re tops for mini van reliability.
Maybe they are tops in reliability, but they are also tops in price. Two/three year old Siennas (and Honda Odysseys) were about 5 grand higher when I was shopping. A salesman called it the “stupid money.”
This right here. We rented a new Sienna two years ago when we were thinking of getting another minivan and wow – that was a nice ride! Lots of power (surprising, almost), fun to drive, stable at speed and plenty of room for the kids. Also… sticker shock!
I’ve looked a lot as with three kids it’s basically either minivan or SUV, and I don’t have full size SUV money. I’m also done with Chrysler products despite how tempting the Pentastar powered minivans are so it’s either Odyssey or Sienna or..
..Pilot. Good cars, great in the bad stuff, decent fuel mileage (right up there with the Sienna and Odyssey) and room enough for the whole family. As a bonus the price, while high, is slightly less than a Sienna or Odyssey while being a ton less than a Tahoe, Expedition, Explorer or anything along those lines.
Top ten longest lasting cars(not counting trucks) are thus:
1. Honda Accord
2. Subaru Legacy
3. Toyota Avalon
4. Honda Odyssey
5. Nissan Maxima
6. Toyota Camry
7. Ford Taurus
8. Honda Civic
9. Acura TL
10. Subaru Outback
Only one minivan on the list and it aint a yota
source: http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobiles/10-long-lasting-cars-that-will-go-the-distance-and-then-some.html/?a=viewall
I only know fr experience the dodge caravan and grand caravan have been great cars for me and the one I have now, 2006, I wrecked 2x!!
I have never owned a lemon and I do not have any car horror stories. I don’t know if it is luck or skill at inspecting/researching used cars to buy. I have never had a new car or a warrantee of any kind. Three cars I can complain a little about:
1. 1971 super beetle-required more frequent maintenance than I expected and the heater didn’t work very good, but it was an old worn out rusty pile of parts with rotted out interior when I bought it so I can’t complain too much. About 18 months after purchase, cylinder head studs loosened up and I sold it for scrap
2. 1981 Ford Fairmont station wagon-I got this car for free with 190,000 miles, worn out tires, a broken down driver’s seat and non-functioning electric windows and other minor issues. Body was in very good shape though. The engine seized up a month or two later before I had a chance to fix anything or spend any money on it. Sold for parts.
3. 1988 Nissan Sentra-a very good low mileage dependable car I bought in the early 90s but after 7 years of hard use it rusted to pieces and interior rotted out and was sold for parts.
I remember people used to buy those old dodge minivans and use them to haul tools and materials for home repairs. Remove all but the front seats and you have a cheap cargo van.
I owned a 95 Caravan (the last year of the first generation model) from September 94 until July 2013 when I donated it to charity. My children were toddlers when I purchased it and learned to drive with it during its last years. When I purchased it I had to search for some time to find the “26T” package, which had the Mitsubishi 3.0 liter V-6 and the 4 speed ultradrive automatic. This drivetrain was trouble free until the later years when the head cover gaskets started leaking badly. The transmission gave up after 123K miles. The shop that replaced the transmission asked me when was the last time the transmission was replaced. I told him that it was the factory transmission. He then said I was very lucky, because this should have been my third transmission. As far as utility goes, it was everything the author stated, except I only counted 7 occupant positions. I still miss it.
Sounds like my Trooper transmissions…60-70k max. $3400 to rebuild. Ouch.
Ahh yes, the Chrysler minivan – the blessing and scourge of many a father. We have one that I love to hate, and really need to write up – ’98 grand voyager “expresso” that’s completely loaded and has the rare 3.8L motor making it a hot rod of a minivan, so to speak. It has over 180k, 100k of that we’ve put on in the last 7 years and it just needs to go…
Things that have broke is a long list of small things never enough to push me over the edge. Of course the transmission went once but that was only two years into ownership so we forgave it. Aside from that it just leaks like a sieve, none of the power windows work anymore, it eats a set of brake pads a year, and it has a mystery use of oil but… It keeps going,
What I love about the stupid thing is how comfortable and capable a highway cruiser it is. Even now you fill it full of kids and stuff, set the cruise for 80 and it just goes with no drama.
I’ll probably replace it this year with a new Pilot because it’s on borrowed time, and with a new model of the pilot coming soon they’ve got some deep discounts available. I’ll definitely miss the utility of a minivan but it’s taught me one major thing – no more Chrysler products, ever.
I winced when I looked at the headline and saw which car you picked. Sorry it turned out to be such a POS. A friend of mine’s mother had a ’92 that from the outset was nothing but trouble as well. That Caravan went through an incredible SEVEN transmissions. They were covered by warranty, but kinda hard to feel any peace of mind when your car is in the shop more often than not. If I remember right, Paul owned one of these and copped to tranny problems as well. Well, they can’t all be winners, eh?
That is the one thing I never understood about Chrysler: With all that money they made on the K car they never bothered to get the transmission right. But instead they bought out AMC/Jeep. Why not spend 100 million on developing a decent transmission?
At least Ford upgraded their lump once, only to replace it later with their worst one ever.
in nyc, where i live, the first generation mercury villager / nissan quest seem to survive like cockroaches. don’t know why but it’s the go to vehicle for people on a budget who need something reliable.
Oh, yes, the Villager. We discussed that a while ago:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics/the-nissan-quest-and-mercury-villager-official-car-of-washington-heights/
This is true….they are everywhere around here. The majority I’ve seen look like survivors from a Mad Max movie.
Before purchasing the Trans Sport Montana I got checked a Villager. Kids liked it as kids used to like roomier vehicle than the 4 door sedan. As all of these mentioned models are a bit unusual vehicles in our terms I wasn’t happy with the condition of the hardly discovered (over)used Villager.
Rule #1. Do not get married. Rule #2. Do not buy a minivan. Rule #3. Do not buy a used Chrysler minivan at any price.
Agreed on all points.
I know that there’s still some decent women out there, but radical feminism and a corrupt, reverse-sexist legal system have made modern marriage a ticking time bomb for most men.
Bought two Mopar vans. A new 90 Dodge short wheelbase with the Mitsu V6 and three speed tranny. Was a great useful vehicle that I became rather fond of. Took lots of family trips in this one. The paint exploded off the top at about 120k by that time the valve guides were smoking pretty good. The tranny went out around also. Replaced that van with a used 97 with 75k. A simply beautiful Town and Country with leather and captains chairs and the 3.8 v6. A great comfortable vehicle that drove great but this trans went out about 130k. Then it suffered some mysterious electrical that left us stranded several hundred miles from home. It somehow was missing a check engine light which somehow was discovered during a “test only smog check” a few years back. I put in a new cluster and were back in business for awhile. Tranny acted up again a year or so ago. Been sitting out in front of the house. Finally decided to get rid of it somehow. Still looks great though.
I had a 93 Caravan with the 3.0 and 3 speed auto. The engine leaked oil and water, the AC went out a week after I bought it (used), the sliding door couldn’t be unlocked if you locked it, front wheel bearing went out, and the body computer died leaving with me no gauges or lights. Transmission failure at 210k finally sent it to the wrecking yard. I guess I was lucky to get that many miles out of it.
With the seats out, it had great cargo space and was terrific when moving. I still miss it.
I have to say this ended better than I dreaded when I read how quickly they countered with an offer that excluded warranty!
Interesting story. Shall stay tuned for the next episode… 🙂
I’m very familiar with these vans from my Mopar days and the only time they are worth having is when they are sub $1000 beaters or brand new.
For the beater, pays yer money and takes your chances.
For brand new, get a three year lease, and when it’s up, hand back the keys. Repeat process.
I drove a Grand Caravan from this generation at a former job occasionally and was shocked by how much I liked it. I took it on a work related road trip to Middle-of-nowhere, PA once and it just gobbled up the miles. Very comfortable but not overly soft ride, plenty of power (3.3 V6/Ultradrive), shifted very smoothly, tons of room (I was dragging home an industrial dishwasher that my boss purchased from a prison and it fit no problem!) The only shitty thing about it was that the rearmost passenger-side window had been smashed out and I had to keep the front windows down and/or crank the radio to control the buffeting. It also seemed to be put together extremely well, as this one was abused (it was strictly a work van that lived in an alley behind our shop) and didn’t shake, rattle or roll.
I also drove a friend’s SWB Voyager with the Mitsu V6 on occasion and liked it too, although that one was less impressive. It had a few electrical niggles and the heat didn’t work for some strange reason that I don’t exactly recall. It, too, seemed to be assembled fairly well, although the one time we pushed it to the limits on the NY Thruway it felt like it was going to rip apart at the welds around 95MPH.
Car maintenance is HUGE; I buy my cars with 20 or 30,000 miles on them and go to garage (same garage -people I trust) like old people go to the doctor lol
In general avoid mopars with ultradrives pre 95. I know they still have a bad rep for trannies after that but I know very few people with later ones who had problems. In general my family had good luck with first gen caravans My parents owned to SWB 3.0 3 speeds and my aunt had a ultradive LWB. The ultradrive crapped somewhere between 130-150,000 The 2nd SWB one blew a head gasket north of 150,000 not sure what killed the first one but they had it for 7-8 years (bought used)
I had a 98 with no trouble until it was totaled in an accident with 125,000 on it. Based on what I can tell online all minivans have tranny issues and the caravan has been running neck and neck with the odyssey for failure over the last 10-15 years. (my neighbor has an odyssey on its 4th transmission under extended warranty the first 2 were with the first owner now they are thinking of trading it in since the mechanic at the dealer mentioned how many times hes worked on it.)
What is it with Minivans and transmissions? Even my roommate’s minivan 2003 Honda Odyssey crapped out to the tune of $3,500 at 120,000. With all the stories out there, that just an tale of bad luck anymore, it’s a rep.
It’s certain minivans, and there are so comparatively few models that make up the entirety of the market that it seems like all of them. Especailly considering the ones that have had notorious isses:
-Honda Odyssey, certain generations
-Chrysler triplets, certain generations
-Ford Windstar (pretty much all of them)
Some of the other minivans may or may not be good vehicles, but aren’t notorious for trans issues. Quest/Villager, Astro, Aerostar, Sienna, Previa, MPV, even the GM Dustbusters. But the fact that two of the most major players, the Chryslers and the Hondas, plus the Windstar, did have issues, paints all minivans with that bad brush.
Of course you also have to remember that these are passenger car transmissions being repurposed to haul around a heavier base vehicle that can ostensibly carry another 1000+ pounds of people and cargo. For one that spends most of its life more than half loaded, that’s not a recipe for longevity in the first place! Astro and Aerostar, being more truck than car under the skin, may be the exceptions to this rule.
Ivana, that is a really nice Cadillac. I love that style. I have worked on many GM vehicles from that era, and found the brakes, steering, and suspension to be the biggest issue with most of them. They may work fine, but on everyone I have worked on, all the rubber parts in the steering and suspension, and body mounts was badly rotted, along with the rubber brake lines to the wheels. Ball joints and steering linkage is also usually worn out. Fortunately it’s all still available, many of the bushings are available in urethane, which lasts a lot longer than rubber. U-joints and wheel bearings are also usually suspect as well. Once you replace this stuff (it’s far more work than parts cost) you have a completely solid car that should last a really long time.
I think the vehicles I dislike the most are crew cab trucks. The whole country has become infested with them. Something like a Tahoe doesn’t cost any more, gets about the same mileage, and can function very well as a family hauler. If I had my way (and I’m guessing there are plenty who are glad I don’t) crew cab trucks would have to be registered and insured as commercial vehicles. That used to be the case with one ton trucks, but not any more. Next thing you know, people will be buying Peterbilts for family use.
I appreciate your helpful comments Dog and will keep all that in mind as I am not a mechanic, just a driver lol. I am excited about the idler arm and other new parts being put on and the alignment as the steering has been very loose and I am so hoping that will now be corrected. I have complete faith in my garage and mechanics as they kept me in the taxi business for years, one car I bought from them twice, wrecked it in between lol. Anyway, after I get mechanical part of the vehicle fixed I am thinking of painting it black matte with silver cladding, although have not decided how that will look with new hardtop I think really good with the white walls, not sure what my son had planned as unfortunately I didn’t have much interest in the project while he was alive ( more guilt I must live with) . However I am trying to make it a car he would be proud of. Again, thanks for reply.
2003 Grand Caravan with the 3.6. Passed down to me by the original owner (my mum). 220000 km on it with pretty much no trouble except the air conditioner which works great now and brakes. Workhorse and it gets treated rough (except very frequent oil changes). Took a beating when we were renovating. Awesome in the snow too. Gonna sell it soon. Really can’t say anything bad about it.