Dodge Grand Caravan
By August of 2012, the 2001 Plymouth Voyager was showing its age. We took both the Voyager and the Town & Country to a party one weekend, and when it was time to leave the Voyager didn’t want to start. The insulation on the wires to the crank position sensor had degraded, and the wires were shorting out. It was a simple fix, but I decided the time had come to replace it.
Searching on the internet, I found a certified pre-owned 2012 Grand Caravan Crew at the Dodge dealer close to where I work. It was a year old, had almost 29,000 miles, and I could afford to buy it without a loan. As a certified pre-owned fleet vehicle I felt comfortable with its condition.
Dodge offered five Grand Caravan trim levels in 2012: the American Value Package, SE, SXT, Crew, and R/T. All were powered by a 3.6-liter V6; I think that’s the same engine my Voyager and Town & Country had. The Crew trim level was fairly comparable to my Town & Country LXi ,and was considerably nicer then my base-level Voyager.
The Edmunds review lists several available options. I don’t recall my minivan having any of them. From a comfort and driving perspective, it was similar to the Town & Country as well. The Stow ‘n Go second-row seats were a marked improvement over the seats in the Voyager and Town & Country, which had to be removed for extra space.
At Brazos Bend State Park
With my WWII ¼ trailer towed behind it, we could pack tents, gear and bicycles for weekend campouts as a family and with scouts. For several years it only asked for routine maintenance. The original tires made it to almost 43,000 miles. I replaced the rear brake pads and rotors at 48,000 miles, and the front pads and rotors at 69,000 miles.
At just over 70,000 miles, in January 2016 there was the first hint of trouble. This was 40,000 miles after I purchased it. It was starting to run roughly, and the dealer cleaned the fuel system and replaced the ignition coil as part of a tune-up ($$$$). This was followed by a new alternator in July at just over 77,000 miles ($$$). In September, at the end of a scout camping trip, it failed to start. The dealer replaced the fuel pump ($$$$) which did not resolve the problem.
I found out there was a recall for Dodge Durangos and Jeep Grand Cherokees equipped with the same engine for the Totally Integrated Power Module (TIPM), which contains an internal fuel pump relay that could operate intermittently or fail without warning.
A forum post pointed me towards a company called Vertical Visions that provided TIPM Bypass cables. While this was not a permanent solution, it did verify that I had a faulty fuel pump relay. They’ve since developed other solutions, but at the time my best choice was to send my TIPM to them for repair ($$). This solved the problem and I was back to routine maintenance.
By the end of the spring term of 2017, my oldest had graduated from high school and we no longer felt the need to own a minivan. At the end of July, this van was closing in on 86,000 miles. I didn’t get the chance to sell it; Hurricane Harvey hit Houston on 8/17/2017 and the minivan flooded in my driveway.
Post Harvey
Needless to say, having been driven for five years mostly by a succession of nannies and au pairs, the van was not pristine, but my insurance company chose to treat it (and pay me) as if it had been. As life started to return to normal, we bought a replacement vehicle in November 2017. I’ll discuss it in Chapter 20.
This generation lasted a good long time, and lived through several versions of model/trim lineups. I remain confused at the dizzying number of trim levels offered on these during the run – I remember the “Crew” version, and thought of it as an odd choice for a model/trim name. I guess someone at one of Chrysler’s overlords agreed because it didn’t last all that long.
Crew was a early FCA thing not sure who came up with it but I remember seeing something about it being related to some trim names Fiat was using in Europe. It applied to several models and was a mid trim they also had Heat trims which also seemed odd.
I have driven miney vans for 30 + years 82 with 2.2 and 4 speed standared was great then 89 with 3L mitsabushy replace motor at 300 k several trans the reducton pack kept wearing out 3 times next was a 94 dodge s/e
similar to the { town +country had to use when looking for parts, was great sold with 310 k to a friend he drove for another 12 years was rusting away still running well when parked next 2001 sport with 3.3 again 350 k just regular maintinance amazing now 2012 so far just regular mantinance only180 k still daily driver. yes very satisfied
Yes Ernie ;
My father bought a ’82 (?) Dodge mini van in Hawaii and loved it so much he shipped it to New Jersey when he changed jobs, then drove it across America to Bellingham, Wa. when he retired, it hauled his second family and camping gear plus everything else with aplomb for well over two decades, when he decided to sell it on I was visiting and did the pre sale get ready and was -very- impressed ~ I like small efficient Commercial vehicles and could see this Dodge as a better than VW Typ II van but, I didn’t want to drive a mini van so I didn’t grab that one and I made sure I was elsewhere every time a good deal on one appeared .
-Nate
” I replaced the rear brake pads and rotors at 48,000 miles, and the front pads and rotors at 69,000 miles.”
Smart. I hope the automotive world has stopped the scary practice of shaving rotors. It is always a nod-of-my-head when new rotors are replaced along with pads.
There is really no need to machine rotors. If they are grooved enough to require machining, then just replace them. If they are not grooved, just install new pads. They will squeak for a bit and then will be fine.
When I worked at Chrysler, we made more money by shaving rotors than we did selling new rotors, so guess what we sold?
Caravan brakes would last barely 20,000 km in our hilly country. The rotors are so cheap just replace them.
Why is it a scary practice? All rotors have specific specs for minimum thickness, which is easy to measure with a caliper.
If I was changing pads on one of my cars, I also would/do not change rotors unless it’s actually indicated; more often than not, it’s unnecessary. But if one had a deep enough ridge or something, I’d have it turned at the parts store for a few bucks.
There is no reason to replace rotors unless there is an obvious one to do so. But like so many things in modern life (specially medicine), we’ve escalated the CYA factor to automatically replace rotors, no matter their condition.
Interesting point.
I’m not for sure, but I think that maybe the last time I had rotors turned was around 20 years ago. Since then, I’ve always replaced the rotors when I did a standard brake job (pads and sensors). It seems that somewhere in the past 20 years, replacing the rotors became standard practice.
I of course always recycle the rotors, so I guess I don’t feel too bad about wasting resources. But the interesting point to me is when did turning rotors become something that few did. I do recall it being standard practice back before 20 years ago.
When China flooded the market with cheap rotors?
Turning rotors has gone the way of so many other things. It’s easier and as cheap to just toss them and throw on new ones.
Of course it all started with the repair shops/dealers, who are always looking for ways to increase their profits.
Unless it’s some unusual pad material, rotors wear drastically slower than pads.
I remember early disc systems which made the front hub and rotor an integral unit, so replacing them was a costly proposition compared with machining them. Somewhere along the way rotors became a separate part from the hub, which seems to me about the time they became a wear item.
Nonsense, there is a minimum thickness and discard spec for a reason, and a proper way to refinish rotors:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3GcYyTDem2yJxhRP7
My $300 list of craig score. On the car machining produces a rotor with essentially no runout with a rotor face that is perpendicular to the hub axis. These machines were required equipment in my time at Ford dealers, and most techs were afeared of them (much like the old mechanics that wanted nothing to do with fuel injection back in the day). If a car came in under 12mo/12k miles with brake pulsation, this was the only warranty approved repair, and you could usually resurface the rotors without removing the calipers. Most times it only took one pass, a quick road test to burnish the new surface and verify the repair, and you were done in less than an hour.
I may be mistaken, but believe vans were created partially to avoid CAFE regulations. 🤔 As stated in other posts, these glorified trucks have NEVER had any interest for me. Remember a buff gym friend getting much razzing when he drove wife’s mini van to the gym. Today SUVS and crossovers seem to rule the roads. 👎 😎
A unit body van based on intermediate car mechanicals is not a glorified truck. A typical van vs a similarly sized 2WD SUV (like the Chevy Traverse I drive at work) on a similar platform has about 30% more interior space and probably gets higher mpg. I don’t own a van now, but I never consulted with other people who patronize some business I also patronize for advice as to what kind of vehicle I should be driving.
Well I always say there are good minivan days in life, like when there’s a scouting event or some kid needs to move to a college dorm. We still have enough of them that we’re keeping our GC.
Looks like your last minivan day was a very bad one, I hope you didn’t lose everything in the flood
I’ve got a good insurance company and drew an appraiser that handled 1000 houses after Super storm Sandy. His estimate on the house was within $10 of my contractors estimate. I lost some vintage car parts that were in the garage. None of my insurance (homeowners, automobile nor flood) covered them.
Sounds like very good service to me, bummer it got flooded but with the insurance payout a good ending .
Many flood cars get cleaned up, their titles “washed” then sent to California where they pepper the Buy Here Pay Here lots, they’re okay for a year or trhee then they explode in rust from the inside out .
I personally dislike min vans but they’re incredibly space efficient and useful .
-Nate
Glad you gave Brazos Bend State Park a mention. It is a favorite with us. For those who are unfamiliar parts of it are the forest primeval; swampy, loaded with alligators, all kinds of birds, snakes, and game, and sometimes eerily quiet. A botanist friend took us for a hike and pointed out at least two dozen varieties of wild orchids (most did not look like orchids at all to me).
It sounds like when that problem cropped up, the dealer pulled one of those throw parts at it till (hopefully) something fixes it. So sad that most techs and dealers today only want to toss parts around in hopes of a fix instead of being able to properly diagnose an issue.
Years ago I had this happen to me. Never went back to that dealer again. In today’s age with computers and Google searches, I tend to do my own diagnostics the best I can before going into a dealer. Then if I have to take my car in, I give them the run-down on what I’ve found out. Some dealers don’t like that, but too bad. I’m not going to be their test market of parts customer. I think the worst of this all is how it reflects so badly on the product itself more than the dealer/tech.
I’ve never been back to the dealer that couldn’t figure out the fuel pump issue. In this case the product had issues (that the manufacturer knew about and had issued a TSB for). A competent tech could have found the TSB and solved the problem quicker.
Back when I was driving a GM plasticvan I sometimes drove this model Caravan at work. It seemed like driving the box it came in. Nothing about it was as nice as my car or for that matter the previous generation Caravan. Besides the boxlike shape that one was the pre-facelift Cerberus version. The later ones are at least nicer inside. The successor Pacifica is another (and far better) story.
Modern minivans are substantially bigger in every dimension than my GM was. Part of it was putting roll down windows in the second row (started by Honda or Toyota), which means they have to be several inches wider for the same rear seat hip room. I wouldn’t mind one in Trans Sport size, but those available today are just too big. On the other hand if you have a family going on vacation or something the room is endless. Unless eight people are aboard there’s not much worry about anything fitting inside.
Good job getting it flooded. Years ago I had a Mazda with around 50K on it that got itself totaled. I too was happy to collect the insurance money and be rid of it (besides me surviving the crash).
Minivans are great for carrying passengers and hauling clean stuff. It’s much easier to access the third row by going through a pass through, then climbing around a folded seat like in most SUVs. I drove minivans for almost twenty years, so I was used to pulling out the seats for moving bulky items. later, I rented a couple of stow and go vans and that was much more convenient. Minivans are bigger than ever, but they are still smaller and lighter than a big SUV. That shows up in better fuel economy.
I like the big wagon nature of SUVs so that’s why I have one. I also have a real truck for the bigger or dirtier jobs.
I won’t say that I miss my minivan days, but that was the period when my kids were younger, and we did a lot of family activities. So there’s a lot of good memories.
I think the days of minivans getting better mileage is over for the most part. With a big exception of the hybrid ones. My experience with 3 row CUVs and minivans is the mileage is all about the same. My wifes Pilot, my MIL’s Highlander, My T&C, and my brothers Odyssey all get within 1-2 MPG of each other. Basically 20 mpg around town 26 mpg highway.
I had Mopar minivans from 1987, 1999, and 2001, all told 20+ years of motoring.
My 2001 began to wear out more quickly around the ten year mark, nothing that couldn’t have been fixed, and a few things were, but it got traded in. The seats were in and out of all three of my vans for household moving, carting, and transportation usage. The seats in the 87’s were the most difficult, lacking wheels.
I drove one of the 2012-2014 vintage as a rental for a few days on a business trip, and found it didn’t have the same happy place for me. Nothing wrong with it, it delivered perfectly fine transportation for me in our Nation’s Capital (Canada that is).
“and found it didn’t have the same happy place for me”
These struck me the same way. I rented a handful of these, both before and after I owned a 99 T&C. Once that 99 was my daily driver, I found it sad that I preferred my 99 (with 200k miles on it) to a new Chrysler minivan. I have looked at this generation as something you settle for, not something you want.
These feel much more truck like then earlier and later ones. In some ways I like that but on a long trip they wear on you. They do great on the utility side the interiors are simply massive.
Me too I had always thought that resurfacing rotors was a part of the brake job. Since when are we “throwing our the baby with the bath water” or is it more profitable to the mechanic than using that brake lathe sitting over in the corner getting dusty from lack of use. Sure sounds like profit is the object of this and not customer loyalty that the mechanic will advise how much life is left in the disc. Sounds like the “snake oil salesman” has found another sucker for the line “we always replace the discs”—except when they do the job for their friends (if they have any left)..
Behold the almighty TIPM. I had a 2013 T & C L-PLUS and loved it so much—and then in the middle of Winter 2002 the heater fan would not work. Took it in and they replaced the fan motor and the relay—and still no fan ?? After inspection it was determined that the fan motor was not the problem—it was the TIPM. So I told them replace it–sounds easy—right ?? Except the TIPM’s were on indefinite BACK ORDER and no one knew if and when they were going to be available. So we did not drive the T&C unless it was over 40 degrees, The car did not have 99,000 miles on it and I bought an extended waranty—but it capped out after 5 years—so I was out of luck. The TIPM was $1100 + labor IF you could find one. I checked multiple times over the next 6 months and soon saw other items that were starting to fail—like the steering rack was making noises, the water pump and timing belt needed replacement, the tans occasionally was shifting with
strange feelings and noises. Now the TIPM was still UNAVAILABLE with a indefinite back order—the back order went on for 9 months which was enough for me to ask if I wanted to have a 10 year old car with 100,000 miles on it with an investment of about $5,000 in repair done. So I reluctantly traded it in on a 2019 Toyota Highlander—which I have found some things that I absolutley HATE compared to my 2013 T&C. I am 5′-8″ and have to move the seat every time I get in to put myself into a position where I don’t feel like I am driving from a HOLE in the front seat. So it is move it back to get out and move it up EVERYTIME I drive it. The owners manual has 700+ pages to it and the trip computer must have been designed by someone who is used to figuring things out with an ABACUS. Will I keep this car as long as I have many of my others?. Make me an offer and I will sell it at sun up the next day. I would buy a Pacifica, but they ALSO have the “sacred TIPM” and that is the end of this story.
TIPM is basically a fuse box with integral electronic relays (and some other fancier things like wiper speed controls). I thing these were developed in the Cerberus Mopar era and implemented at the start of the FCA era. Other automakers have similar parts. The main issue was the early ones had a number of design flaws. They had overheating issues and corrosion issues that left failed electronic components and bad solder joints etc. The later ones got better but basically it’s a when not if thing for Mopar vehicles built in the early 2010’s. There are a couple aftermarket places that rebuild them now and have various fixes. The one on my company 2013 T and C went at 135k miles and the main sign was the wipers just stopped working.
I have a 2013 T & C as a company car. Kind of glad I don’t own it given the issues over the past couple years. These drive more truck like then the earlier and later Mopar vans. The driving positions feels higher and more upright as well, which I find tiring on a long trip. Really I love the practicality of the thing, easy to get into and out off, easy to haul people or stuff fairly quick not horrible gas mileage. Handles OK too. But its not fun at all. In the past two years mine has had the following issues.
TIPM failed (wipers stopped working)
Rear HVAC fan died
Oil cooler failed
Coolant hard pipe leaked under the dash
Transmission failed
Luckily my company has a fleet service contract that covered all that.